Weatherby Goode

It renders minor tools useless in, what? One situation every 100?

Be honest, how often do you come across an NPC that summons a pet?

HE asked what sets rely on -recharge. Not which sets contain it.

The only set that has a legitimate complaint here is Ice Control, and even then it has other ways of dealing with the tiny number of NPCs that summon pets.

Yes, like the Posi proc Damage and Accuracy from Targetted AoE sets will only effect the Targetted AoE portion of CC, namely the Creeper Entangle.

Changing it from Targetted AoE to Pet Damage and Recharge Intensive Pets should allow the Dam and Acc to transfer to all aspects of the pet.

Edit: I edited the guide to mention the stuff you've brought up, OfficeMan.

As for the ED question, i frankly have no idea how the game handles that. This is the only case where something like that is even possible.

It runs up to them when they aggro on you. It can't fly, so they have to be relatively close to the ground (20ft up is the max).

Just note for Plant Control.

Carrion Creeper's Bramble power (the autohit debuff) has a -fly, as do all the Vine attacks. Not sure if you are aware of that, since you mention that Plant has no useful -Fly.

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My suggested slotting is:
~40% Accuracy
95% Recharge
95% Damage
Debilative Action: Chance for Smashing Damage

and either
Positron's Blast: Chance for Energy Damage
or
Trap of the Hunter: Chance for Lethal Damage
if you have room.

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Shouldn't that Debilitative Action be Impeded Swiftness Chance for Smashing Damage?

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Yes it should. Thanks for the catch!

UPDATED FOR I14

This is the updated version of my guide. It takes into account the changes that Issue 14 brings to Carrion Creepers. Also, since the Carrion Creeper pets are the same for Dominators and Controllers this guide is accurate for both achetypes.


This guide attempts to explain just about everything about the complicated series of pets and psuedopets that make up one of the most unique (and convoluted) powers in the game. It also explains some quirks with the power that have a large impact on the suggested slotting.

CC's mechanics can be a bit overwhelming, so if you just want the end result read the yellow bit about halfway down. If you have questions post them here and I'll do my best to answer them.



Carrion Creeper Patch, the original summon
The power that the player uses (called Carrion Creepers) summons an entity called Carrion Creeper Patch. This Patch has several powers of it's own. It is also mobile and will follow you around (though the 'bramble' graphic doesn't move). The Patch is invisible, and has a snare power called Bramble, a second pet summon called Carrion Creepers (we'll call it Carrion Creepers2 or just CC2), and a power called Vines. Interesting side-note: Even though the Carrion Patch is invisible, it still makes ripples in water. So you can summon it and go for a swim, you'll 'see' the pet following you around.

Bramble
The Bramble power is an autohit AoE snare power. It is always on, and every 0.2s it will apply -fly, -runspeed, -maxrunspeed, and -jumpheight over a 20ft area.

Carrion Creepers 2
CC2 summons Carrion Creeper Patch2 every ten seconds, at every enemy corpse in range. CCP2 is a short lived pet whose only purpose is to attack with an AoE version of Entangle and then self-destruct silently. This AoE Entangle applies a Mag4 Immob to an 8ft area, deals a decent amount of Lethal and Smashing damage, and prevents flight and knockback on the targets. Creeper Entangle has a max target cap of 5 and a base accuracy of 1.0.

Vines
The Vines power has a 50% chance of summoning a Carrion Vine every ten seconds for every living enemy (PC or NPC) in range. These are the vines we know and love and they are the most visible part of the power. Each Vine lasts for 15s and has a ranged Vine Thorns attack and a melee Vine Smash attack. Both the attacks applie a small recharge slow, a movement snare, and a -fly effect. The melee Vine Smash also has a guaranteed knockdown. Both attacks have an accuracy of 1.0.



Procs in Carrion Creepers
Now that i14 has fixed the enhancement bug, procs will also work properly in Carrion Creepers. Like the rest of the power, though, the issue of procs is fairly complicated. The main thing to remember is that procs can only fire if the power being used is set to allow the type of enhancement set that the proc belongs to.

The following is a list of all the procs that can be slotted into CC and how they interact with it. (Note, some of this is not thouroughly tested. If you can provide me with corrections, please do.

Positron's Blast and Ragnorok: AoE Damage set procs
These procs will have a chance to fire whenever Creeper Entangle fires. Ragnorok is a poor choice since the very effect that triggers the proc prevents the Knockdown from occuring. Positron is an ok choice, with a good damage type and decent proc chances in this power.

Trap of the Hunter, Debilative Action, and Gravitational Anchor: Immobilize set procs
These procs will have a chance to fire whenever Creeper Entangle fires. Trap of the Hunter and Gravitational Anchor are decent, though the extra control in Gravi Anchor is probably wasted. Debilative action's measly 2% chance to stun should be avoided in any power.

Impeded Swiftness and Pacing of the Turtle: Slow set procs
These procs will have a chance to fire every ten seconds against every target within the Bramble power's radius. They will also have a chance to fire every time a vine uses either it's Vine Smash or Vine Thorns attacks. If you have room for one proc, Impeded Swiftness (the Damage proc) is the one to use. Pacing of the Turtle's Chance for Recharge Slow is mostly wasted CC, since there is so much -Recharge already.

Force Feedback and Explosive Strike
These procs will have a chance to fire every time the Vines use their Vine Smash attack. Force Feeback is worthless here since pets ignore Recharge buffs, and Explosive Strike has limited proc opportunities when compared to Trap of the Hunter, Positron's Blast, or Impeded Swiftness.


Slotting Suggestions:
As before i14, Recharge is the most important aspect and if you can only spare three slots, three Recharge SOs is the absolute minimum you should accept in this power. Ideally, you have 6 slots in Creepers. Within those 6 slots you have a lot of freedom, and that means there are a lot of good ways to slot it.

Note: Currently Targeted AoE sets (like Positron's Blast) only transfer their enhancement to the Creeper Entangle power. Slotting these into the power will NOT affect the Vines, where most of the damage comes from. If Castle is reading this, please consider removing Targeted AoE sets from the allowed list and adding Pet Damage and Recharge Intensive Pets to the list. This would allow the enhancement to transfer down to all sub-pets of the Creepers.

Likewise, slotting Knockback sets will only enhance damage and accuracy in the Vine Smash power. Slotting Slow sets will only affect the damage and accuracy of Vine Smash and Vine Thorns. Slotting Immbo sets will only affect the accuracy of the Creeper Entangle.

TOs, DOs, SOs, Hammis, and Vanilla IOs will carry down to all the subpets. For this reason I recommend using these rather than sets.


My ideal slotting is:
~40% Accuracy
95% Recharge
95% Damage
Impeded Swiftness: Chance for Smashing Damage

and either
Positron's Blast: Chance for Energy Damage
or
Trap of the Hunter: Chance for Lethal Damage
if you have room.

Realistically, you will only have room for something like this:

(At Level 50)
3 level 40-50 Recharge Vanilla IOs
2 Acc/Dam Hammis
Impeded Swiftness: %Smashing.

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Someone actually did that a couple years ago. Starred Ascendant, if I remember right.

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http://www.halfwaydecent.com/html/ma...tesec=40.0.0.0

If you want some hilarity read his VirtueVerse page

Preliminary testing shows that CC is working properly now. Enhancements are being passed down the entire chain, and this seems to include procs as well.

I don't have a recommended slotting yet, as I'm still testing how good certain procs are. 95% recharge is definitely a must, along with ~40% Acc. Damage makes a big difference too, but the Impeded Swiftness proc appears to be firing very often so it might be worth slotting.

I'm still checking Posi, Crap of the Hunter, and Explosive Strike procs but I don't expect them to be nearly as good as Impeded Swiftness.

Today's patch on test supposedly fixed this issue, so I'm crossing my fingers.

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especially with a few slider tweaks

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So so true. The basic female head sliders are terrible.

Time Lord is a day job accolade that grants +7.5% global recharge, among other things.

I rarely stick to my powersets when I (forum) RP, nevermind specific slotting choices. I might work in a wink or a nod to certain 'meta game' aspects, but I really don't give it much more thought than that.

That's my assessment of Illusion as well. Maybe it's because mine is Ill/Therm but I haven't seen a whole lot of the Ill uberness.

Phanty isn't really a high ST damage pet. It's more of an AoE/Support type pet.

Yup, that's pretty much the conclusion I've come to. My Earth/Storm/Stone has enough survivability to stand up to most AVs and I've got the theoretical damage to bring them down. I just can't do it in any reasonable length of time. ten minutes to get Dominatrix down to 90% health is just not worth it...

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P.S. Rise of the earth/storm AV solo'ers?

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Maybe, I but I haven't been able to do it. The Smashing resists that so many AVs have make it difficult, at best.

So, remember when I said that Pooman did really good ST damage?

However, I must say I'm completely shocked at Illusion's poor showing. I'm equally surprised by Gravity's good showing. It isn't as good as it probably should be, considering the set's piss poor control but still...

Guys, this is really not relevant to magicj's thread. If you think Jack is bugged, send Castle a PM. If you just want to argue about the design decisions involving Jack, i suggest you start a new thread.

On Painbringer slotting: Ditch the EndMod and replace with Heal.

By the time PB is available, almost every character will have their End problems under control. If they don't the massive 800% base boost to recovery will be more than sufficient. (Perspective: SB is only +50% and it is enough for just about everything).

Enhancing the 500% regen up to 1000% (Instant Healing levels) will be a faaaaaar better invenstment, especially if you cast it on a pet where the survivability is more important than the recovery (Very few pets will burn through an entire end bar even without recovery boost).

Just my 2 cents, though. Otherwise a very nice guide. Good work.

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I don't know why Grav did worse with Hasten than without for the level 32 test without Propel. I'm assuming Singy was out of range for part of the test.

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Probably because Propel sucks that hard. If you can't make a full attack chain (ie the w/o Hasten test) it can give Grav a slight edge, but once you can make a chain out of Crush, Lift, and GD, Propel actually lowers your DPS.


The times for the PRe-32, no Hasten runs should be:
Grav w/o Prop.....1:40
Grav w/ Prop.....1:06
Earth.....1:39
Ice.....1:49


Also: I'm not certain why you are using powers like VG and Flashfreeze in the tests. The minimal damage they put out will only hurt DPS. Also: the AoE Immobs will do a similar thing for the Hasten tests as Propel will.

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>SM LE FIRE ICE NRG NE PSI TOX
0.75 0.75 1.00 0.70 1.30 1.00 1.00 1.00</pre><hr />

Technically, that is 1-Resistance. For example, a Tank will take on 75% of the damage from a smashing attack but 130% of the damage from an energy attack.

Smashing and lethal resistances, with an energy weakness and a Toxic resist after using Dull Pain.


Keep in mind, you don't need to use the same type of boss for each set. So long as they are at the same level and have no resistances to any of the sets damage types the test will still be valid. Also: If it heals, note how much or restart the test.

That said, I suggest a Council Penumbra Archon, Penumbra Cor Leonis Archon, or Pemumbra Elite Archon. No mez protections, no heals, no resistances, no (well very little) mez, and no relevant debuffs. A Council Empire Archon will work for the level 50 mob if you can't find a regular council spawn that high.

I'm also interested in seeing Grav, Earth, and Ice results.


As to the tests:

-Containment: You aren't setting it up right away. Open with the ST immob (or Mezmerise for Mind/) to make sure you get Containment as much as possible.
-Hasten: It wore off halfway through the Plant/ test. Could be a source of error.
-Slotting: How are these toons slotted? Are all the attacks/pets slotted the same way? Any +Rech or +Dam bonuses? Any procs?
-Pets: Have the T-9 pets out when you start the tests. That is a better approximation of real play experience.

Overall, they mesh with both my experience and the general wisdom of the Controller forums so they seem pretty good.

I will admit that the level 6 power gave me trouble.


Ultimately, I choose a Confuse because it was A) different and B) thematically appropriate. I hadn't thought of adding a Tree of Life-like power, though. It could be interesting, but I suspect it would end up exactly like ToL: A weak effect with a long recharge tied to an immobile object. It could have it's uses, but I think I like the ST Confuse a little better, just because of the novelty. Also: I didn't think about the end drain making the Confuse useless, but now that you've brought it up I doubt it would be any more at odds than Spectral Terror/Flash or Terrify/Total Dom.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of object could be the basis of a +recov power like that? A giant battery? A lightning bolt? A Pikachu?