Wavicle
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Quote:...Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
LOL WUT?
Am I the only one that finds that last sentence hilarious?
EDIT: Seriously! Think on it a sec.
Thinking.
Still thinking.
Nope, unless what BlackSly wrote above is true (which is possible but if so is a very strange, probably buggy, not often talked about, and quite unintuitive behavior) there is absolutely no way that -Resistance debuffs add to your damage mitigation. Yea, they let you kill things faster, but that is not what I'm talking about, in this case, when I refer to damage mitigation, and was not what the person I was responding to meant when he called the stacked damage debuffs survivability.
-Res is an offensive debuff, not defensive, again unless what BlackSly wrote is true.
Maybe you want to explain just what is so hilarious about saying that -Res does not make a mob less dangerous? Do you typically find that mobs that have had their resistance debuffed (and nothing else) miss you more, attack more slowly, or hit for less damage? -
Quote:That's not what I said.Originally Posted by Cavatina
In other words, play rad/empath or ur useless lolololol
screw you.
I said that Leadership are the options provided in the power pools to make up for teams lacking certain buffs.
I didn't anyone who doesn't provide such buffs is useless. And of course Rad and Emp are not the only sets who provide such buffs.
Way to read the most stupid, limited reading of what I wrote. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Ethric
3 kins + 1 dark... against even cons.
-60% damage from 3 Fulcrum Shifts alone in a 30ft radius. (If all kins were trollers, otherwise even more damage debuff)
-37.5% damage debuff from the Dark Defender'd Darkest Night in a 25ft radius.
All magnified by the -res from Tar Patch.
That would easily floor the enemies damage.
Don't tell me that's not great survivability right there.
Yea the stacked -dmg is great survivability.
But what do you mean magnified by the -res?
-Res does not effect how dangerous a mob is, it effects how easy it is to defeat. -
Quote:That's because SS has Rage.Originally Posted by _dEOS_
The Dark should barely have the time to summon Tar Patch that the spawn should be dead with sufficient raw offensive power. That's the point of Smurphy. Blitzing through spawns is the key.
Kin, Cold, Sonic with their very quick or player-centric buffs are the key.
Dark, Rad, TA, Storm are certainly effective but they are slow to setup.
By watching 30min ITF videos, you could see that a SS/Elec brute could be both invincible and a machine of destruction chaining Footstomp non-stop while having all the mobs around him constantly debuffed by the sonic aura.
Blitzing when you miss a lot doesn't really happen.
I mean, I'm sure everyone's right that this team just sucked at playing, but I know that well built toons can still have tohit issues against Romans if they don't have the right buffs and debuffs. -
Quote:Nah, experienced and skilled players would bring real sets instead of 3 kins. Leadership is the second rate backup for buff/debuff sets without -Def or +Tohit. :POriginally Posted by Smurphy
So your response is "only if the experienced and skilled players are experienced and skilled players can they accomplish that feat"? If an experienced and skilled player was going to do such a challenge, he or she would know what he is doing. Shouldn't people be taking those leadership buffs all the time if they were "skilled" team players?
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Quote:The humorous part for me is that I completely agree that Banes are not ideal AV soloers, because of the long animation time (mainly that of Shatter and Poisonous Ray). The part I take issue with is the claim that you are better off not using Surveillance at all.Originally Posted by LuxunS
Actually if you read my post I talked about that, not sure if you missed it in the middle of all the math. Adding Surveillance DOES increase dps. The boost is not as significant as you may believe however. Only 13.84dps and I posted the math to back that up. If you find a mistake in the numbers feel free to point it out.
The reason for this is that when using surveillance it takes a bash out of the chain, after the first continuous attack chain you have a damage increase of 179 damage, but lost 188 from using surveillance in place of bash. It isn't until the 5th attack (roughly 9 seconds after casting surveillance) that the damage is increased. This leaves 11 out of every 20 seconds where the 20% dps buff is actually "effective".
tl;dr
Wavicle is not wrong, it does create a 20% increase in damage. However, PRAF is not wrong either, because the increase in damage does not become "effective" until after the animation time's break in damage is overcome. -
Quote:Maybe Xenite has a disagreement with my definition of the word bug.Originally Posted by Anilo
Which is what the power does. Dwarf Form is activatable while mezzes are on you and, just like any other toggle power, if you are mezzed during the activation of the power, it is stopped and the power has to recharge and be retoggled.
Do I like it this way? No
Is it a bug? I'm not sure, but not likely.
Would I change it if I could? You bet.
A bug is anything that doesn't work properly, regardless of whether it's because of a newly created accident or a previously existing problem that has yet to be fixed.
We were told that we can switch to dwarf form when mezzed. In practice this isn't always true. That makes it a bug. -
Quote:They don't need to explicitly state it.Originally Posted by LordXenite
So you have written word from the Devs that this phenomenon we're experiencing is or is not a bug? I'd love to see where the Devs actually state that while transforming from Human to Dwarf, subsequent mez effects following the original one that mezzed the Kheldian should not reset the transformation.
They explicitly stated that Dwarf form can be activated while mezzed.
Unless they say otherwise, anything that interferes with that is a bug.
Period. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Optanite
Pretty sure -RES powers can be factored quite easily, regardless of target resistance (assuming you consistently single stack the -RES, or factor in downtime).
Resists effect your calcuated DPS and the -RES debuff equally. A -20% RES debuff will result in a overall 20% increase in DPS (not factoring in activation time here), even if the target has 99% resist or -100% resist (inherent / unresisted).
If you guys were arguing damage types, we might have something more complicated here, but we are not.
That's what I thought, and that's why PRAFs argument seemed off to me.
The above is accurate. It doesn't matter how much resistance an AV has, debuffing his resistance 20% will always increase your dps by 20%.
Math showing the animation time of Surveillance+redraw reduces that to nothing has yet to be presented. -
Quote:Controls help a lot yes, but frequently Controller players have too many things to keep on top of to be really good at all of them. /Kins especially.Originally Posted by Teehka
Controls help more than most people give them credit for.
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Quote:There's a kin and a dark and 2 useless leeches.Originally Posted by Smurphy
I disagree with you completely. The defense debuff and primaries are irrelevant. There are three kins on the team and a dark. It's set at difficulty one. If the enemies get much more than 1 volley off the "playskill" of the team simply sucks. The mission should be won through pure offensive overpowering. The team should easily kill the enemies before the Romans remember they even have swords.
I think some of you are unable to comprehend what kind of experience and skill some players can possess.
*EDIT*I've been a part of countless amazing feats of skill... while facedown in the dirt 30 yards behind.
Capping damage doesn't help get through defense.
Your idea, that having capped damage+tar patch means you can't be stopped by anything, flies in the face of the reality of the game and the abilities of Romans.
Unless there's a bunch of Leadership buffs or the melee have gone out of their way to buff their own tohit, they are quite likely to have acc issues. -
QR
Saw in the OP that Restore Essence can't be slotted with End Mod sets or enhancements.
However, I didnt see this anywhere in the noisy thread:
PBs self rez Restore Essence can be slotted with Heal enhancements and Heal IO sets but the Heal portion of the power has been marked Ignores buffs and enhancements.
This seems like an obvious bug, no?
Also, bugs regarding Lightform:
If you are in Lightform when you exit an AE mission you will no longer be in the form, but the power will have been used, in this way one avoids the crash, but also may lose a portion of the powers duration.
In Lightform all attacks and your ally heal do not root you as normal.
When exiting a mission in Lightform often one will lose the 'little ball of light' appearance, and instead be 'humanoid model of light' for a little while. -
Quote:You seem to have missed my point.Originally Posted by Timeshadow
Thing is it's not a bug. At least not in the traditional sense of the word "bug"
Rather, the form shifting issue you described is the result of a quirk in the way powers work. Dwarf Form isn't an instant activation toggle. Rather, the effects of the power (Including the mezz protection) don't kick in until the 3s animation time is finished. That's why you can be interrupted while in the process of shifting.
As I said in another post, Kheldians not reaping the benefits of their forms instantaneously is intended by the Devs as a means of giving the AT a vulnerability. That's why they continue to reject proposals to reduce the animation time on Nova and Dwarf forms.
I don't expect to have the mez protection instantaneously.
The power is supposed to be activatable when mezzed.
Therefore it should activate even if mezzes are incoming. Mezzes should have no efffect on its activation. Like Blaster level 1 attacks.
It's a bug. You can call it a design oversight if you want, or a difficult to fix issue, but it's still a bug. -
Quote:Maybe, but I certainly don't think 3 Kins and a Dark is any Dream Team.Originally Posted by Smurphy
No. I don't think so.
Play skill in this scenario is an ocean. Your proposed explanation is a tiny thimble of water. Experienced and skilled players could have done that with enhancements turned off with that same team. -
Quote:Originally Posted by LuxunS
This while it may seem a big hurdle, actually isn't in practice. Ignoring any resist buffs, on paper my fortunata does 221dps. Mind link has to be recast every 90 seconds and I lose less then one full attack chain. Typically when I cast ML I do restart my attack chain, it ends up being about a 10dps loss in the end, not very significant. My next project is making a widow that doesn't need mind link, almost have the build where i want it
I tend to not get into discussions about archetyes I don't play, but PRAF68 is right about the bane animation times. I'm not going to get into the redraw, as i don't have a bane. Widows are good for soloing AVs because their attacks have very high DPA. They do better then most brute/scrapper sets. Banes on the other hand have very poor dpa. Since I don't have a bane, i'm not exactly sure what attack chain would be best but when I considered making one for AV soloing I worked up a build. Here are the numbers I came up with for DPA.
Bane Spider Soldier
Bash 1.3/1.584 = 0.82
Shatter 2.78/2.508 = 1.11
Pulverize 2.14/1.716 = 1.25
Crowd Control 2.11/2.244 = 0.95
Bash > Pulverize > Bash > Shatter
.82/1.25/.82/1.11 in 7.392 = 0.54
To put it short, thats garbage compared to widows. Even the lowest DPA of widow attack chains is twice as efficient.
Arachnos Widow
Swipe - .8 Lethal + 3x.08 toxic = 1.04/1.056 = 0.985
Followup - .91/1.056 = 0.86
Lunge 1.82 + 4x.1 = 2.22/1.056 = 2.10
Followup > Swipe > Lunge > Swipe
.86/.985/2.1/.985 in 4.224s = 1.17
Not taking sides, just stating the numbers. That doesn't mean it can't be done. I've heard of people soloing AVs with pure range fortunatas, and the dpa for that chain is 0.66. It may be possible, but it would surely take some time.
Again, you left out Surveillance, not to say it's gonna turn garbage to gold, but you forgot it.
Your Widow may not need Mind Link, but I bet your teammates will be sad that you don't have it. I guess it'll be good at soloing AVs tho, long as they aren't Psi. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Fury_Flechette
The team line up was a dream line up. 3 kins (including my fire/kin controller), 1 dark defender, 2 scrappers, 1 brute and a stone tank. 3 kins and a dark defender, if piloted competently, means you can basically trivialize any content in this game.
Except for anything with Defense or Tohit Debuffs and anything that is much easier for Ranged attackers.
Kins do not stack especially well. One can cap a teams damage and give plenty of recharge and endurance. Rads, Storms, TAs, these stack well, because they have Defense and Resistance debuffs.
Your team was well defended and had plenty of damage, but insufficient offensive debuffs.
Player skill may have had some to do with it, but a lack of Tohit buffs or Defense debuffs against the Shield-defended Cimerorans might also explain it, yes? -
Interestingly, I disagree with one point, at least in regards to my experience with my Shields tank.
The last 3% was Not the most noticeable. I was already almost completely unkillable at 42%. The most noticeable 3% was the 3% from 37% to 40%, iirc. -
Quote:If a Scrapper or Stalker or Brute or Tanker or Arachnos mez protection power wasn't Working right it would get fixed Very quickly.Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
Oh I completely agree, sadly I think it is a side effect of the mez system (Just from what I have read on the forums, not sure if it is speculation or dev confirmed but it makes sense) which would mean a massive amount of work to fix and I don't hold out a great deal of hope for it, which leaves us to make the best of a bad situation.
Why is the Kheldian mez protection power treated differently? -
Quote:We shouldn't have to do that.Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
The bind solution from _dEOS_ is the way I have set mine up, and probably the easiest (I use z = human, x = nova and c = dwarf).
While it is frustrating when multiple mezzes stop you switching forms (Especially when it gets you killed) this is the simplest way to work through it, just hammer the key until you change!
If we are meant to be able to switch to Dwarf when mezzed then getting mezzed ought not to have an effect on an attempt to switch to Dwarf.
It's a bug. It should be fixed. -
Quote:Kindly don't make assumptions about me and I will try not to make assumptions about you. I do tend to keep informed about changes to the game.Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
You don't pay much attention to what is going on in this game do you?
You might try doing a search for posts about Redraw by BAB.
Here is one from last december for example, from part way through the process: Broadsword, Axe, Mace, Rifle and Bow had been changed, Claws and Katana had not been - they have been now.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...raw#post669159
You can't do precise calculations about the effectiveness of Survailance, because it depends on how much resistance the AV you are fighting has. If you are lucky enough to come up against one with no resistance to your damage (mostly smashing for a bane) then it is just about worth using, but even then it will miss at least 7.5% of the time against an AV.
This last paragraph does not prove that you get better DPS by not using Surveillance, it merely claims it again. -
I get mezzed, I hit my button to switch to dwarf, I get hit by another mez during the form shifting animation.
And I am mezzed again and have to hit the form shift button AGAIN, and hope that I don't get hit by Another mez. Meanwhile I'm taking tons of damage because my toggles are suppressed.
This bug is making me very frustrated. -
Quote:Yours is the first claim I've ever seen to the contrary.Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Good grief, there aren't some people who still believe this are there?
Link?Quote:That used to be how it was supposed to work when the game first launched, but some powers never worked propery, and over a year ago BAB decided to remove the pauses between attacks, and have redraw count. It took a while for the changes to work thier way through, but redraw slows your attacks on all weapon sets now.
Proof? Basically, I don't believe you. Surveillance isn't autohit, but it also doesn't check defense. I would need to see very clear math to believe this claim that the 2.5 seconds of animation negate the value of the debuffs.Quote:This means that Survaillance has an effective acitivation time of abount 2.5 seconds. The duration of the effect is 20 seconds, so using it in a long duration fight reduces your DPS by around 12.5%. Thats not quite enough to cancel the benefit of the -res, but once you take into account that Survailance isn't autohit, and that many AVs have smashing resistance, which resists resistance debuffs, it works out that you are better off not using Survaillance mid fight.
My point about Widows was not regarding their redraw but regarding the animation time of Mind Link, which is quite long. Comment?Quote:NB, Widow claws also have a redraw, but it is much much shorter than the Mace or Rifle. -
Quote:Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Resistance debuff in Survaillance is bairly enough to counter the attack chain interuption that the power causes. It's great for boosting an Alpha strike, but overall DPS on a bane is pretty poor compared to a Widow.
Yes, it the long activation times and weapon redraw that kill Bane DPS.
Would be very surprised to hear that Widows DPS overcomes the animation time of Mind Link.
EDIT: Also, weapon redraw is a myth, animations take the same length of time regardless of whether you have your weapon in or out at the start. -
Quote:Soft capping bane def: not that hard.Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
It's probably because other classes (Night Widows and Scrappers) do it better.
Bane DPS isn't quite enough to beat most AV regen, and they have no -regen to help, and unless you hit the def cap you don't have the suvivability either.
Surveillance (and option for Venom Grenade): better than -regen which is heavily resisted by AVs, whereas -res is not.
Then there's the astonishing (compared to Widows) End efficiency of Banes.
I highly question whether most accounts of Bane DPS (that almost all say it is lousy) take account of Surveillance?
And then of course there's the Whole Point of the OP which is that the Bane (assuming soft capped def) has Better survivability than the Widow. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Daemodand
Yes, but you should never take Thunder Kick on Martial Arts characters. Easily the worst power in the set.
I'm not sure you're right. It got a big buff in the animation fixes.