Wassabi

so get the storm secondary and slot em in tornado...

No, not being able to slot 2x of those IOs doesnt affect the MMs I have that can't. I have 2 MMs with 2x and 2 without. I have no issue playing either.

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Best pets in a vaccum

Bots, followed by Necro. Ninjas, Thugs and Mercenaries suffocate right off, and the zombies get dried out and kind of brittle after a while.

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Uhh... most IO choices avail to mercs? I'm streching here....

That would depend on how the bots computers are cooled if there air cooled they would freeze up just as fast.


Joking aside is there NOTHING that merks do best? Are they rely that sub par to the rest of the MM sets?

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I think a better test would be comparing the pets WITHOUT IOs. Straight pets.

And I say this because you base so much on IOs in your calculations. What Thugs provides with GangWar, any set can achieve with /Storm. Sure, it's easier with just Thugs/But it is by far that set only.

I have achieved more with my bots than I have with my thugs. That of course needs to be taken with a grain of salt as the secondarys for both are different.

The only MM primary I lack is Mercs. That would be because I am out of fresh secondaries to pair them with.... for the time being. I however would bet I would get demon summoning before another secondary.

FS originally buffed around the target only at a rate of 25% per mob hit, with no target cap. You could easily buff up to the 400% cap off one good pull.

This was changed, the target cap was put in place. The mob and mobs around were given the reduced buff of 15% per. In the same swing, a new buff originated around the caster of 25%. The caster buff was given so that blasters and other people at range could benefit from the buffage instead of just melee chars.

You have to jump in your "I remember 5 years ago" machine to get this.

I miss old FS and 3 sings.....

Bot's take the high rank in survivability for their innate resists... Add in the bubbles that the prot bots give, and thugs enforcers be damned.

Also, bots for top AE damage. No one dishes it out like they do to AE

And I would have put bots as most survivable.

Ninjas def highest damage.

to answer your question MisterD...

Yes, the unique Recharge pet IOs placed in Tornado will affect all your other pets and those bonuses stack with the regular pet set unique IOs.

No, you do not have to have tornado summoned for the bonuses to apply; they are always on. You can check a bot's stats to see the bonuses.

This was changed... no more trap porting.

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I think that in itself is the issue right there. Tier 9 powers are what people strive for in sets, that one shining power that generally defines the set. Trollers get pets for the most part. Mind gets an AE confuse that is for the most part duplicated as a lvl 8 power in a newer set.

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I disagree - I look at the set as a whole.

Illusion isn't defined by Phantasm. Most people are going to think of PA (lvl 18) as a "defining" power of Illusion instead.
Plant? Just look at your own argument and that of others here - SoC is what people think of, not Audrey.
Ice? Ice slick (also an early power) more than jack. At least in my experience.
Earth is defined by... well, *everything* in it, not Rocky. VG, EQ, QS are more "signatures' of the set.
Grav and Fire, perhaps, are known for the pets, but the rest of them... not so much, IMHO.

The same's true in other ATs, as well - some (such as Granite) are defined by their Tier9, yes, while others (Fire) aren't. Radiation Emission isn't the "EM Pulse" set, it's the debuff set - which you get early, even as a controller. FF isn't the "Force bubble" set.

Saying the Tier9 of a set is "that one shining power that generally defines the set," even with the "generally" thrown in there, just isn't accurate, and shouldn't be the way to measure or judge a set.

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As far as the "cottage" rule, and who made up that name btw, they should be shot, anyone remember Grav didn't have a tier 9 pet.... remember those days.

It's happened before....

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Once in five years? That was, what, first patch? Issue 1 at latest?

I think that's less "It can happen" than "The exception that proves the rule."

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Yeah, cuz you never hear people jumping up and down when they get a pet with sighs of "FINALLY". Yeah, that doesn't mean anything to most trollers who hit 32 and go, "Now I can do what I have been waiting for, now I have some sort of ability to solo faster than I was prior".

I absolutely have no care one way or the other as i have neither a plant or mind. My point still stands, as many have said it before, it's a tier 9 power that is absolutely dwarfed by a lvl 8 power in another set. Tier 9 power, this is an important fact. I can't duplicate phantasm or imps or singularity or poo man or ice dork or audrey with any other set... I can with mind. Ice slick, and anything else mentioned are duplicated in other sets to one extreme or another, but not the tier 9s, atleast not any that come to mind.

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Just because Mass Confusion is in the tier 9 spot does not mean it is intended as a direct replacement for a pet. Mind Control is balanced against the other sets as a whole, not power-for-power in order.

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I think that in itself is the issue right there. Tier 9 powers are what people strive for in sets, that one shining power that generally defines the set. Trollers get pets for the most part. Mind gets an AE confuse that is for the most part duplicated as a lvl 8 power in a newer set.

As far as the "cottage" rule, and who made up that name btw, they should be shot, anyone remember Grav didn't have a tier 9 pet.... remember those days.

It's happened before....

Watch it be a scrapper power. Sucks to be blasters then!

I personally slot 1acc, 2dam, 2def, achilles for my enforcers.

Sure the proc would be nice, but if you are running on lvl 5 diff, then the acc is nice to help supplement their tactics. I would gladly take achilles over ToLG as the -resist increases ALL pets damage of all attacks... I am sure someone can do the math, but it's going to be a hell of alot more damage than ToLG proc ever could be.

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Yes. The IO only stops working if you exemplar more than three levels below the IO's own level. Active/inactive status of the power it is slotted in is irrelevant.

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I believe that was fixed. IO's work at all lvls. You loose bonuses if you exep below the lvl of the power it's slotted in.

Or I'm crazy and imagined that, which is so simple.

I believe it was the patch that let Accolades stay when exep below the level they were atained at.

Mission name: Elements of Chaos
Arc ID:
Morality: neutral
Length: medium
Description: This is a fight of the Elemental Lords to maintain the use of the Elements in powers! This is a raid/TF. It was not made to be soloed, it was made to be a challenge to a group. There are 3 arcs total, 2 missions each in the first 2 arcs with the final arc being one mission (TBD). Take friends and please give me some feedback. Remember, it is intentionally difficult, my biggest annoyance was the lack of end game content. This is my first attempt at fixing it.
What you were drinking when this was created?: There was lots of coke, champagne... some other stuff,but you don't drink that...

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I'm not advocating for LS here Mac, I'm advocating for MM and controller pets. Why are they going to be subject to this "change" when it is within the realm of possibility to leave them out of it; they don't inherit hasten from the caster nor any other buffs.

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The MM and Controller pets are because of the AI issues. Again, the devs don't want to pick and choose who has an issue and who doesn't, they want a broad, sweeping change.

Yes, they COULD make it specific to a pet. But I think it's very likely they won't.

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Which is why there is so much animosity twords this change.

It's not needed in such a broad sweeping movement.

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The question is, do the devs have ANY clue what is making the exemption for the Def version?

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The Defender version uses a different pet than the other three ATs that have access to it (slightly higher damage is the only difference). Chances are simply someone forgot to add it to the list of affected powers and it will be "fixed" sometime within the next few patches (or it'll be ignored for a year or so and then finally be fixed to much complaining from the Defender boards).

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But then that is not a broad sweeping fix as it's advertised. If that is the case then they have the ability to pick and choose what pets are affected.

If that's the case then why must every pet suffer for the sake of an issue happening with a few? Flag the ones with the issue and move on leaving the rest alone.

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Because Castle, in the OP of this thread, specifically singled out a few powers, including Lightning Storm, as another reason for this change. Since the Defender version uses a different name, it's more than likely someone forgot to change it in the spreadsheet, not that they're trying to make a point of only getting certain powers with the change.

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I'm not advocating for LS here Mac, I'm advocating for MM and controller pets. Why are they going to be subject to this "change" when it is within the realm of possibility to leave them out of it; they don't inherit hasten from the caster nor any other buffs.

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The question is, do the devs have ANY clue what is making the exemption for the Def version?

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The Defender version uses a different pet than the other three ATs that have access to it (slightly higher damage is the only difference). Chances are simply someone forgot to add it to the list of affected powers and it will be "fixed" sometime within the next few patches (or it'll be ignored for a year or so and then finally be fixed to much complaining from the Defender boards).

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But then that is not a broad sweeping fix as it's advertised. If that is the case then they have the ability to pick and choose what pets are affected.

If that's the case then why must every pet suffer for the sake of an issue happening with a few? Flag the ones with the issue and move on leaving the rest alone.

But that right there seems to be the fallacy that is being handed to us Kosmos... (2).

Test right now, Defender LS is exempt from the changes. Obviously it is within the system to make certain powers exempt without causing issue.

The question is, do the devs have ANY clue what is making the exemption for the Def version?

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It's amusing that the name of this thread is "Recharge Inheritance Change"


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It can mean the inheritance by the pet's own powers of the recharge slotted in the parent summoning power, as well as inheritance of buffs on the caster by pets.

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But none of that has been changed. If I'm understanding what is being said, the values are being inherited, but they are just being ignored.

Note that if I'm right, no Mastermind pets or "true" pets should be inheriting recharge from their parent. So the reason they are getting this change is not because they are getting recharge from their parent. It's because they are having AI problems. The two separate problems, though (2) and 3)) are being handled by simply ignoring recharge in both cases.

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And yet on test, it's not fixing the AI issues.

Testing so far is quite the contrary making such a broad and sweeping change not worth the consequences for the advertised affect.

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Based on my experience with a reasonably random sampling of player characters in pick up groups, I have not observed hasten to be very commonly used.

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Hmm. Pretty much everyone I know has it and uses it. Maybe the drunk server is just the smart server too

Actually, while many people didn't know how to improve LS, I would respectfully say, most people pick up hasten, and I would imagine, the majority of the time, hasten would be active while they were casting LS, which would give them a baseline for expected performance. And even if they didn't know about it, chances are, alot of people will still gather global recharge for the direct act of getting perma hasten, inadvertantly making LS even more so...

While the general population doesn't know how this may affect their performance yet, they will after it goes live.

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Eeeh, putzing around on test I just breezed through an arc I had built with my IOed stormy. Didn't pay much attention to what the storm cloud was doing, but I didn't feel like I had been stripped of my killing power. Tossed up puffy and it pinged away at things. In fact, had an easier time with the storm defender running the arc than I did with my tank or scrapper.

Was I playing wrong? Reading through this thread I feel like I should be filled with some sort of outrage or something.

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defender storm has not been "fixed" yet. so you wouldnt have missed the recharge on your lightning storm.

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He was doing MA missions, which basically means, he was on test.

I have issue with the fact that the defender LS is not affected on test currently, possibly an oversight.

I also have a question regarding the purple pet set (soulbound allegiance) which was designed specifically to increase the pet's rate of fire. Now that it no longer does this, will we see a reworking of said said at a minimum... one that makes it worthy of being a purple set?

I take issue in the fact that it was LS, VS, GT that were the targets and MM's are going to pay heavily for such a broad and sweeping change. Could you not put this issue off until you have time to re-think it some? You have in the past thought up ways around issues when given time which you currently didn't think were possible (the new changes to Phase come to mind).

hush... I'm secretly challenging him to do it all again to get people past this entire poison trap nerf being doom.

I jsut dont think he could pull off his stunts anymore with the poison trap change.