UberGuy

We have it on more people's say so than that. We have it on the say so of Prometheus and Mender Ramiel as well. They know what the Well is and what it's doing, and they simply leave it to LG to tell us that part. Your statement that she's the one whose word we have to take on it suggests that they don't know it is able to possess States and LR, which seems silly.

I honestly fail to see how that's relevant to anything much.

Also, where has the well established itself as a jerk? Most of what we get that establishes it that way is Prometheus, who really doesn't seem like that warm and fuzzy a guy, either.

Given that this was an issue they have wanted to fix since about Issue 1, and for which tech appeared that could produce a solution rather recently (they are clearly working like the Alpha Slot does), I don't think there's any special reason to think this is a harbinger of things to come. Things may be coming, but there's nothing about this which I think makes a reasonable indicator of such.

I suspect a very small part. It wasn't even well-known among forum regulars, and not all of those aware of it used it.

I really don't see this at all. Not as a general statement.

I think there's a ton of overly thick drama in this thread, but to call this "horribly broken and wrong" is just as idiotic.

We were, pretty bluntly, told that doing this was a minor sin that would not be punished, but that our ability to commit it might some day end. That day is now. Those faced with the end shouldn't be wailing in the streets, but no one else really has a place castigating them for doing some great wrong.

I didn't realize that either. I only use it as a mule for LotG:+Recharge, so it won't affect me, but I can see why this too would be annoying.

My complaint isn't so much that this has changed with HOs, but that it doesn't match what the notes say is changing, and that it doesn't match what IOs do. That suggests to me one of the following:

• They know this affects stuff like Mind Link and Vengeance, but it's the only tech available to prevent things like Enzymes being use to enhance something they truly are not supposed to enhance, so they accept it as collateral "damage". The patch notes remain wrong.
• They saw how this would fix things like Enzymes, and didn't think about the side effects on things like ML and Veng. The patch notes remain wrong, but everyone thought they were right. This may turn into the first bullet above, or it might turn into the one below.
• This mismatch of behavior between Membrane and Def/Recharge IOs is contrary to both how the change was intended and designed. It can and will be fixed (at some point) so that Membranes would again enhance recharge in powers like ML.
• The ability to slot things that aren't listed in a power's accepted enhancements is completely unintended, even for set IOs. IOs will also change, possibly at a later time. In my opinion, if this were the case, certain powers should be modified to allow explicit recharge slotting. Mind Link, which (based on Castle's comments at the time) was designed explicitly with using the "slotting bypass" would be the prime example.

As has been mentioned, that was not the argument to begin with. They didn't want it to be a trivial switch, in the sense of wanting to prevent frequent changes back and forth for given characters.

If they turn around and make these tokens like 80 points or something, I'll be with you, because they'll have a non-trivial barrier in game and a trivial one in the store. If they make these the point equivalent of $5 or more, I'm guessing that would be pretty non-trivial on the scale of what most people spend on gaming. People can switch fast with them each time they buy one, but most people will not pay $5 or more to switch repeatedly.

Agreed. I know Castle was trying something fancy. I never really "got" what he was doing, though. I immediately worked around it by slotting Def/Rech IOs when my Widow was in her 20s, and switched to Membranes near 50.

If I have to I can work around this using level 50+5 boosted Def/Rech IOs. It seems silly to have to, though.

I understand. This change makes Membranes not enhance recharge in Mind Link, where Defense/Recharge IOs do. Mind Link accepts defense sets, and Mind Link accepts HOs that boost defense. This is not a case where HO's allowed slotting things that weren't supposed to be enhanced with anything. Everything a Membrane enhanced was actually specifically allowed by design, but now this change makes one of them not work.

Which means at the very least that the patch note description does not match what the new HOs really do.

It's not just that. They're now one of the best Def/End pieces. I have lots of builds that used Enzymes to save slots. I can still save the slots, but I need the best Def/End available to do so. Cytos will play a role in that, and I'll want to ++ them.

The problem I have with extending the "intended" functioning of HOs to include this is that IOs also work this way, and continue to do so on Beta. I just tested to confirm that Defense/Recharge IOs still boost the recharge time of Mind Link.

Yeah, sorry, misstated that. Your earlier explanation did make it clear.

Most folks I know would simply have stayed a hero, rather than leveling up as a villain. Honestly, if I was going to go for the accolades hero-side, I would have probably done what you did, with one exception. None of my villains have become heroes. Instead they all became Rogues. That's good enough for the vast majority of content. They can even start TFs. Sure, it locks me out of Alignment Merits, but (a) I had heroes that could collect those (and I wasn't going to do it across lots of characters, and (b) Empyrean Merits work out so much better for me I have completely stopped getting Hero Merits.

I think the meaning of "as intended" does not seem clear. As evidence I cite that the devs' own patch notes does not match current behavior, and that, moreover, the new behavior does not match the behavior of otherwise functionally similar IOs.

When I said "if the change was to squelch things like DDR boosting and Enzymes buffing defense", those are explicit examples of them not working as intended. This change modified additional behavior above and beyond the elimination of those examples. Given that IOs also work in these ways, and this was never cited as an exploit, I consider it reasonable that this is not making HOs work as originally "intended". If the devs come forth now and say that no enhancers are intended to work in these ways, then that is new information as far as I am aware.

I am not sure I can accept that "as (originally) intended" means "whatever they do in I22".

I had exactly the same thoughts when the Alpha Slot was introduced. I looked at how it worked (functionally, I have no awareness of implementation details) and thought "that seems like it could be applied to HOs".

That would be sort of neat. Unfortunately they will remain sort of orthogonal to many (though not all) set-oriented IO builds, since some of the most desirable bonuses require one to use up so many slots in a power that either there's no room for HOs or such large benefits would be overkill. Old-school sized boost strength would be very nice in "frankenslot" builds, though, or in powers that do not benefit particularly well from sets.

I find that unlikely. I haven't accepted HOs for years except on a whim. 53 Reward Merits is much more valuable on average. I get my HOs from the RSF, which I think gives a piddly amount of Reward Merits. (I used to take HOs on the STF, but I don't any more - I take Merits there too.)

I can confirm that they also no longer buff Mind Link. This suggests to me that they probably modifed HOs (and related types) to use the same code as the Alpha Slot. The problem is that this does not conform to the patch notes. If nothing else, the patch notes should change. I have /bugged this in beta and posted feedback to this effect on the beta boards.

I'm not going to post a judgment of your opinion, Sam, but I am going to point out that it's likely fair for one person to tell another that an opinion is (appears) close-minded. You're completely within your right to take offense at being told that about your own opinions, but you were not told you could not have your opinions, or that your opinions were factually wrong. You were told someone else's opinion of your opinion.

Rude? Perhaps. It pays to have a thick skin on internet forums.

Right. I don't expect Mind Link to be affected.

Based on the wording, this is not like the Alpha Slot, which has no effect if the power doesn't accept that type of enhancer. Spiritual Alpha, for example, does not affect Mind Link because Mind Link does not accept dedicated Recharge/Attack Rate enhancements.

This is not worded like that. This says that HOs no longer enhance things they don't say they enhance. Membranes say they enhance recharge, so if you can slot them (even if only because the power accepts Defense enhancers), and the power has a recharge attribute, Membranes should make it faster.

My Widow is queued for copy, but has not arrived yet.

That seems radically overly doomerific.