TwoHeadedBoy

PVP? What is with all this PVP talk? No one cares about PVP.

That's what I said, I didn't check to see if I had other options in my contacts window. I'm currently working and unable to check, so I just thought I'd ask quickly to see if anyone else had.

Once again I don't think your comparison is fair at all. You're equating dying to glowie hunting? I really don't think it's a "matter of perspective," you die because you took more damage than you had health points before you could regenerate. Not being able to find a glowie is not testing the strength of your characters or your understanding of game mechanics.

If it's a matter of perspective, what is the other way to look at it? Are you saying that some people judge the quality of a player based on how well they mitigate damage and stay alive, and other people judge the quality of a character based on how quickly they find glowies? Because, that hasn't been my experience.
Except there are already missions in the game where the objectives appear on the map as soon as you enter. In some of the Praetorian missions, you're not only guided to objectives as soon as you enter the map... You're guided from door to door so you don't go the wrong way. It also happens in some of the newer Talos Island arcs.

I don't think making it easier to find things and get back to actually playing the game would undermine the game's integrity in any way. You act like some people play the game primarily because they just LOVE finding glowies. They've built their characters to be softcapped at mundane efficiency, if there's no glowie to be found they get real upset and log for the day. I just don't think your argument makes any sense at all.
Other people seem pretty capable of following it, actually. It just seems to me that you're insisting on making it into something that it's not. Having the map show mission objectives wouldn't mean you didn't still have to complete the objectives. It would just mean that you would have the option to show those things on your map, so that you could go about things a bit more efficiently if you so choose. I hardly think that is as difficult a concept to understand or potentially game breaking as you seem to think it is.

Are you referring to Microcosm's analysis of the new Light Form? Unless Joe has posted something, those are the only "new numbers" that are coming to mind.... It's irrelevant though because the conversations you're referring to happened before we knew about any of these changes.

As of right now on Live, Light Form cannot be made Perma. Whether it happens to be up at the same time that a Warshade has insufficient buff food is completely circumstantial and it would be pointless to try to calculate those odds. You got angry when people linked you to the PB vs. Warshade performance analysis, insisted that Peacebringers were more survivable even when you were provided with mathematical proof that this was not the case. You also showed a complete lack of understanding of how Warshades even functioned.

The whole thing started when you said this:

You went into a discussion under the impression that Warshades had lower survivability than Peacebringers, period, and kept that attitude no matter how many people told you it simply was not the case.

With these new changes, it's a different story- Your argument has now become true... Discounting Psi damage, Peacebringers will have steadier survivability (exempting the easy-as-anything crash you have to work around.) Although the point that Warshades are reliant on teammates to survive is way off.

Anyways if you don't remember the conversation I'm talking about, you can find it here.

Umm, I know that. This is what I have an issue with, if you've been reading my posts this whole time...

How is it unfair for tanks to be more survivable than blasters?

And for the second one, you automatically win if you ignore the rules and bring your energy blasters and peacebringers to knock everything out of melee range?

I wasn't aware of that but I still think there's a strong case as to how fair it would be for voids to do unresistable damage.

I've been on more leagues than I can count where I wasn't getting survivability buffs. Obviously a 20% defense debuff isn't going to hurt a Shield Defense Scrapper with an Ice Shield very much... But it's definitely going to be a detriment to my Blaster who only has 32.5% s/l/e/n/r defense. With the resistance debuff on top of that, it's absolutely going to be a threat to squishies to a greater degree than non squishies... But the fact that we have buffs available to us doesn't mean that we will always find ourselves in situations where those buffs are being used. Speaking from personal experience, it s definitely not guaranteed that you will always have barrier or ice shield on your squishies or anything else.
Not everyone builds for positional defense, though. For instance the only viable option for building up defense on my perma-Eclipsed Warshade was Smashing/Lethal, and I don't even have that to the softcap. Sure I will usually have 85% resistance to all damage, but trust me, when I lose 30% of that resistance on top of all my defense I'm still going to take a lot of damage from an attack like that.

edit: Another thing to consider is that I'm suggesting these attacks be AOE, which is probably the least viable position for a character who isn't starting with a good amount of AOE defense to build for. This would leave the more survivable defensive sets like Shields and Stone at an advantage, which is how it should be... But when you go from 45% defense to 25% defense, and you're losing 30% of that exotic resistance you probably don't have much (if any) of in the first place, you're still going to be hit hard. This would also encourage people to be more mindful of their teammates, the sets they're playing, and to get a better idea of how exactly they function. If you're playing a buff set, you'll want to make sure you apply the right buffs at the right time. I notice this is a bit of a problem already, people not being mindful of what other players are bringing to the table. Last night I did a BAF, and the league leader put someone who was playing Rad on the add's team when we were already having trouble with the AV's regenerating. I feel this would be a good way to encourage people to be more mindful of their teammates, while following the rules of the game and still providing a challenging environment.

No problem It's a really well written guide and he even provides different examples of potential builds. Once you get to a point where you're ready to start IOing your Warshade, there are lots of people here who can help you decide exactly how you want to go about doing that too.

I think it would be better if people were encouraged to use things like barrier strategically, ie: Wait to cast it until the Nova Fist warning comes up.
And you just gave examples of untyped damage that was removed from the game because it was deemed unfair, right?

I already gave my idea as to how I think these attacks should work:

The debuffs would account for the massive buffs and expensive builds, while the damage dealt would still be relative to individual character survivability.

No, that's exactly where it becomes unfair. I don't believe that any attacks should exist that do just as much damage to a tank as they do to a blaster unless it's something that the tank has no resistance and no defense to- We have exotic damage types in the rest of the game for exactly that reason. I do not think it's okay for someone who's spent billions of inf. softcapping a position (or even all three) and building up good resists to most damage to ever encounter a situation where they are just as survivable as Joe Blaster with an SO build. To me, it negates not only the hard work people have put into their builds... It contradicts the fundamentals of having archetypes in the first place.

I said I wanted to hear what people thought, I didn't know that meant I was obligated to agree with everything everyone says.

Please point out where I said anything like that at all? I'm not expecting anything to change, lol. It's just something that bothers me, and it seems I'm not the only one.
It's not a question of being easier, and I never said it should be. I simply said that it should follow the rules of the rest of the game. I'm pretty sure that +4x8 Arachnos are still going to be challenging to 99% of players. That doesn't mean that they get special rule-breaking damage types. It just means that we already have challenging debuffs and exotic damage implemented in normal content for a reason. The minute people start soloing Malta and Arachnos as easy as a fire farm, you'll have a point... But insinuating that enemies who follow the rules are all easy is just not accurate.

I don't think Incarnate Trials are impossible to do or even particularly hard. Just because I don't like the way a certain mechanic works doesn't mean that I don't understand how to deal with it. It just means that I don't like how it works.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=190529

keep in mind that what you consider to be challenging isn't necessarily what everyone else considers to be challenging. Even with a top notch build, it is going to be difficult to tackle certain tasks in the game that don't cheat. Overcoming tasks that are difficult but not impossible to achieve is what I consider to be challenging. Going up against enemies who just flat-out throw the rule book out the window oversteps that line in my opinion.

For me, since I realize that "fun," "challenging" and the like are all subjective, the best way for the game to remain fair for everyone regardless of their opinion is if the game would simply follow the rules... By that I mean, follow the same rules all the time.

additionally--- As for your point about a "nuclear warhead" being able to destroy everything. Alright... That would be viable if it weren't for the fact that this is happening in a Super Hero Universe. You're talking about people who can emit radiation from their bodies and throw fireballs from their hands.

Well what I would prefer is for their special attacks to do something like a 30% resistance debuff and a 20% defense debuff in the same AOE radius that they are currently, do 10-20% more damage than standard AV's "heavy hitting attacks," and on top of that be part s/l and part exotic damage... ie: toxic or psi. They are exotic damages for a reason, because most players are hit hard by them. They still follow the rules, though. Also perhaps in some scenarios, add a Regen debuff to the heavy hitting attacks.

And Incarnate AV's have a higher to-hit than most enemies, so the softcap alone, which most people do not build past, would not be enough to guarantee that no damage is taken.

This would still make them very powerful attacks while following the rules of the game, ie: they will affect squishies more than non-squishies and player stats will still be taken into account in terms of how much damage is taken while letting them remain more powerful and therefore more challenging than other enemies in the game.

Sorry, I actually wasn't being a smarta*s, I guess i just misunderstood what you were saying.
Actually, when it comes to things like charging into groups on the ITF, a lot of the fun and the thrill for me is to see how much I can take. Often times, I can take on everything and clear entire spawns by myself, and other times I slip up/am negligent, and I die. That thrill is actually a big part of what makes the game interesting to me.

Wow, I see you're in thesaurus mode right now. There is no "failure condition" to not being able to find a glowy. It's an "annoying" condition. Lots of missions guide you from one objective to the next via the map. The objectives are shown at some point regardless, it just becomes tedious when they're not being shown.

Like someone else said, knowing where things are is not the end of the mission. You still have to click on, destroy, lead out, rescue whatever you were required to in the first place. I'm not saying "all mission objectives should be a glowie that you click as soon as you walk in so you can go on to the next mission."


This really strikes me as unfair. Based on your logic, using the map to find anything, ever, makes the game 'Pac Man-esque.' As for the rest of your post, read this thread. It should be an indication of the fact that many people do not want to speed through everything. Heck, I know I don't. I've already said more than once that the thrill of fighting challenging enemies is a big part of the thrill of the game for me. I was referring largely to more tedious elements of the game, like glowie hunting.

There is no right or wrong way to play. If you're on a team that wants to speed everything and that isn't your thing, form a new team and be clear up front that you plan on enjoying the content at a normal pace and you want to have time to read the stories. If the people you invite don't want to play the same way you do, you're all free to go your own way.

The thing is though, that the rest of the game works just fine the way it is. I don't expect my Blaster to be as survivable as my scrapper in any situation when it comes to normal content and even other end game TF's. I'm not saying that Incarnate AV's shouldn't be tougher than the average bear, but I am saying that the survivability of the players they attack should not be discounted because that player got hit with teh wrath.

As for the point that "skilled players should always do better," I'm not disagreeing with that. The thing is though, the Invention system is a big part of the game, people work very hard on their builds, and I feel the numbers that are attained through that work should be applicable in all situations.

That wasn't even really the point, it was just one example. The point is I was curious as to how people feel about magical damage types appearing out of thin air that we can't build resistance to. And even worse than that, even with beyond softcapped positional defense, it still doesn't matter. I guess these attacks aren't melee, ranged, OR aoe, so logically speaking I guess they don't exist at all! -_- And yet they'll ignore your stats and one shot you all the same.

I was more wondering about whether most people were comfortable with the principle of that guy who trained you up to level two (and did whatever it is that Anti Matter does) being able to create attacks with no type or position that they magically conjured, apparently out of thin air, because they aren't being delivered from any other position that I'm aware of existing in the game.

Except when you happen to be mid animation when it goes off. -_-

I don't see why these attacks shouldn't work like the attacks in the rest of the game. I can understand them being high damage, sure, but one shotting someone with capped resists? It really just feels like cheating.