Thorizdin_LotD

What about an Empathy Defender or a Storm Controller? Are they disadvantaged because they are going to have a low kill count while being high priority targets? Of course not, K fails to account for teams (remember what PvP balance is based on).

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yeah and how often do you see those in SC?

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/em looks at sig

Every night dude.

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Being teamed doesn't really change my survivability, because nobody can prevent my being 1 shotted.

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Sure it does, get a /Cold Cor for Frostworks and a /Son or /Thermal Cor for shields. *poof* you aren't nearly as squishy as you were a few seconds ago.

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go gather your team if ya have the balls

[/ QUOTE ] No, this is one on one my friend....my skill versus your skill. No leaning on your friends to bail you out.

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Level 40 fight, all other options standard, ie nothing checked, sound good?

Foget about PM's, go gather your team if ya have the balls. My global is @thorizdin, don't forget it nub.

Alright, we can agree that Defense based sets may need some attention in RV. However, I don't agree that HO's have much to do with the problem. I would suggest that you read Aracanaville's guide to Defense and play with some numbers. If you really think your TA can hit through any defense, yell at me some night, @thorizdin. I'll be glad to prove you wrong.

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What, is today lets be an idiot day? Read that damn sentence, "HO's do not increase damage or ACC beyond what SO's offer since ED was implemented." I can slot exactly the same amount, in fact a tiny bit more, ACC and DAM and toHitBuffs with SO's than with HO's. This isn't an opinion, its simple math. Now, would there be a price to pay for that slotting? Certainly there would, but it could be easily overcome by getting a couple of buffs.

HO's do not negate defensive based sets, defensive based sets have far more to worry about from the high base values of self toHitBuffs like Aim and Buildup than HO's.

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Nice, all you do is continue with your straw man and completely ignore my other post and anybody else's arguement about how HO's affect slotting. NOBODY argued that HO's have a higher value than SO's. So quit acting like people are arguing that and address the whole issue before you call people idiots. The pot is looking very much like it's calling the kettle black.

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When someone comes out crying that HO's negate defense, they are being an idiot. HO's are not the culprit, at least not since they reduced the amount of buff they provided several issues back. The reason that defense has a problem is the large number of high base value self toHitBuff powers. Aim, Build Up, and Focused Accuracy are the prime problems.

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HO's do not make a difference because of ED. HO's do not increase damage or ACC beyond what SO's offer since ED was implemented.

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Oh come on, it allows you to have 3 Acc + 3 Dmg in 3 slots and still have 3 empty slots to fill with End Red or Recharge (or whatever secondary effect your attack might have) SO's. If you are saying that doesn't have an effect on PvP you are sorely mistaken. The player doesn't have to make a choice between Acc vs. Dmg with HO's. He gets both.

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Read what I wrote. HO's do allow for more slotting options, I never said that they didn't. What I was pointing out was the HO's do _not_ increase ACC and DAM more than SO's do.

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I did. You said "HO's do not make a difference because of ED." plain as day and you even re-quoted yourself saying it. Especially since your statement was a response to my generic rant about how HO's negate defensive AT's and you directly countered that with your line. Nice try to wiggle out of it now. Yeah, you didn't say HO's didn't allow for more slotting options. You just plain said I was wrong when, actually, you just weren't looking at the whole picture.

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What, is today lets be an idiot day? Read that damn sentence, "HO's do not increase damage or ACC beyond what SO's offer since ED was implemented." I can slot exactly the same amount, in fact a tiny bit more, ACC and DAM and toHitBuffs with SO's than with HO's. This isn't an opinion, its simple math. Now, would there be a price to pay for that slotting? Certainly there would, but it could be easily overcome by getting a couple of buffs.

HO's do not negate defensive based sets, defensive based sets have far more to worry about from the high base values of self toHitBuffs like Aim and Buildup than HO's.

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but people complaining that they will suddenly be taking massive amounts of additional damage

[/ QUOTE ] Well, let's see ...if I can use three recharges in addition to my three acc/dmg...my DPS is close to doubling because of the three recharges I can now slot because of HO's.

So yes...in some cases, HO's can almost (can't ignore animation and the Recharge/(1 + xx) equation) double the damage you're receiving...at least from the slower charging heavy hitting attacks.

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I never said that HO's didn't give an advantage

[/ QUOTE ] I think you have a little more back-pedaling to do just yet.

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No, no back pedaling. Recharge only matter to the next target, not the one in front of you. Have you ever PvP'ed? It doesn't sound like you have much experience, at least not against anyone with any level of skill or teamwork. If you and your team don't kill a target in one attack chain, its highly unlikely that you will on a subsequent one because his team's healers have him back to full health.

I have to say, one of the best written and thought out posts on the current state of balance.

*Note copied from Wikipedia, so the info may be out of date*

Nucleolus - Damage + Accuracy

Centriole - Damage + Range

Peroxisome - Damage + 'Mez' Effect

Endoplasm - Accuracy + 'Mez' Effect

Golgi - Healing Rate + Endurace Cost Reduction

Ribosome - Resistance + Endurace Cost Reduction

Microfilament - Travel Speed + Endurace Cost Reduction

Lysosome - To Hit Buff + Defense DeBuff + Accuracy

Enzyme - To Hit DeBuff + Defense DeBuff + Endurace Cost Reduction

Membrane - To Hit Buff + Defense Buff + Recharge Time Reduction

Cytoskeleton - To Hit Buff + Defense Buff + Endurace Cost Reduction

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HO's do not make a difference because of ED. HO's do not increase damage or ACC beyond what SO's offer since ED was implemented.

[/ QUOTE ] There's that rock solid logic so often found on these boards...

Never mind that using three slots, you are most likely exceeding the accuracy of any SO'd toons.

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Really, so will 6 slotting HO's give you more ACC than 6 slotting SO's? While you _can_ slot dam/acc HO's that nets you a whopping 15% more than a 3 and 3 SO slotting.

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Nevermined that with three slots, you have three more slots which can all be slotted for recharge which would increase your DPS substantially. Nevermind that if you chose to six slot with Acc/Dmg, you would be getting a beneift over other SO'd toons 10% greater accuracy and damage like having someon on your team running Assault and unslotted Tactics.

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I never said that HO's didn't give an advantage, they do, but people complaining that they will suddenly be taking massive amounts of additional damage and having their defenses nullfied by HO's don't know how the game works.

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No, HO's don't provide any increase in damage for those who can fully slot them. Can I have yours please?

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Don't have any.

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HO's do not make a difference because of ED. HO's do not increase damage or ACC beyond what SO's offer since ED was implemented.

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Oh come on, it allows you to have 3 Acc + 3 Dmg in 3 slots and still have 3 empty slots to fill with End Red or Recharge (or whatever secondary effect your attack might have) SO's. If you are saying that doesn't have an effect on PvP you are sorely mistaken. The player doesn't have to make a choice between Acc vs. Dmg with HO's. He gets both.

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Read what I wrote. HO's do allow for more slotting options, I never said that they didn't. What I was pointing out was the HO's do _not_ increase ACC and DAM more than SO's do.

I just PM'ed _Castle_ for some clarification. According to him, when the -PER from GI surpresses, it never unsurpresses against another player's PER but does against mob's. I am going to test this tonight to get a definitive answer since this doesn't match up against the testing we did earlier.

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I'd have to say that getting hit by fire or ice from a hamidon 50 hurts quite abit.

Assault rifle on the other hand is a joke ahha...now THAT'S a nerf.

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HO's make no difference in how hard you get hit. they only boost damage by 33% which is the same as an even level damage SO. They don't make your attacks do more damage. It only hurts more then AR because of damage types. Ever see what fire damage does to a fire tank/brute or ice damage to an ice tank?

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It hurts more because it TOTALLY and COMPLETELY negates your defences. The Acc/Dmg HO's plus BU/Aim = I have no defences at all and have less hit points than a blaster = DEAD STALKER.

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HO's do not make a difference because of ED. HO's do not increase damage or ACC beyond what SO's offer since ED was implemented.

I can see how it works for a solo build, but that doesn't interest me much. Team v Team is my preference and in that venue Fly is subpar. Jousting with SJ is very doable for the melee attacks, just not AS

TP+Fly depends on getting an AS or a mezz effect off since you can't chase well, and there are far too many counters that auto-interrupt AS for Team v Team. Even with the changes to Hurricane its still going to be very common, as will the other auto-hit PBAoE's.

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If you're dedicated to PvP then you'll have Fly and Teleport for Travel Powers


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Nope, Fly is the worst (in general) travel power for PvP. TP is a good secondary, but SJ is far better (for most tactics) than Fly is.

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Are you sure about this? The way I understood it, it would be 510 feet. There's a difference of 10 between the -perception and +perception caps, but everyone starts out with a sight range of 500. If the caps all but cancel each other out, a player will still be left with the base value, right?

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Absolutely positive, if both players are at their respective caps, the Stalker can be seen from 10 feet away.

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Even if we get grant invis used on us, scrappers will be so close to the perception cap that any perception bonus will put them over the top. Also, keep in mind that we got no defensive bonuses at all. We got absolutely no accuracy bonuses either. Scrappers all have an option of focused accuracy which not only helps negate any stealth we may have, but also allows them to hit us more easily. We recieved no such benefits in return.

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I don't think that you understand how the cap works. Lets say there is a Scrapper in RV who is running Tactics, FA, and has 23 Clear Mind Buffs active. You run by running Hide, Stealth, and one Grant Invis active. The Scrapper will see you from a whopping 10 feet away. Now, this _IS_ going to make it harder solo Stalkers and Stalkers who team only with other Stalkers for the GI buff. To that I say, good.

Hide+Stealth+Grant Invis will take you to the -PER cap in RV. RV is gonna be harder for solo Stalkers, by design. Your best bet is to get on a team and learn to adapt.

No real change for me, but I think this is just the first in a long line of adjustments to reign in the effectiveness of solo Stalkers.

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1) Can anyone state clearly. if he or she knows, whether or not multiple CM castings from the same caster stack, up to the +perception cap?

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Yes
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2) There seems to be a range at which someone can be targeted, and at which someone can just be seen (the name is visible). What's the difference?

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Not sure.

I would like to see some evidence of that, since it goes against all of the experience and testing that I have done. Also, CM and Clarity's +PER do stack, or at least Clarity's does, which is all I have access to test with. I had been told that CM==Clarity, but its possible that isn't accurate. Is that statement based on testing?

225 feet sounds about right, but chasing a mobile buffer that only has to move up when every minute or so is very challenging. I challenge you to spike out even a decent Emp with just two Stalkers in hidden. I can tell you, it doesn't work

Its probably possible on paper, but it doesn't work that way in game.

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Yeah, but we're talking about 3 grouped stalkers vs. 2 blasters and an emp. Let's suppose that the stalkers have grant invis, so that puts them at stealth cap.

If your 3 stalkers are spines, couldn't they just spike damage via impale the emp (who is the only one who can't see the stalkers) dead?

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This is quite close to what we actually run in SC, 3 Spines Stalkers with the rest support. If you are concentrating on using Impale, then hitting the -PER cap doesn't matter as much. In theory this works well, in practice its quite a bit harder than people might think. First, a good emp will only be exposed when he needs to buff or heal. The rest of the time he is weaving in and out of LoS of his group with SI on. Getting three people on the exact same moving target that fades in and out of Perception range is challenging. Once you all have him targetted, then you all have to land an Impale within a second or two otherwise he will just heal through the damage. Of course during the time that you are trying to get him targetted and get your Impale off, his hyped up Blapper buddies are searching for you and to ruin your attack they only have to hit, not kill, one of three Spines Stalkers. With only 2 Stalkers in Hidden state you won't have enough damage to spike the Emp out before he can heal. This is where player and team skill starts really coming into bear. Try this technique on an unskilled player and they often see no way to escape it, try it on a good one and it has a less than 50% success rate.

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If the blasters aren't running tactics themselves, suddenly they're blind... and the stalkers will most likely get away even if they have tactics, thanks to the magic of placate (unless a single blaster can quickly kill a stalker with only ranged attacks).

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Clear Mind is a click, not a toggle. Killing the Emp won't remove the buff and unless you happen to get the Emp towards the end of the timer they will easily be back in time to rebuff before CM expires.

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Are you entirely sure that one emp can stack +per via multiple applications of CM from the same buffer? If so, that's fairly broken. As I understood it, the main reason why the mez buffs stack is that before, when they 'replaced' the older buff there was a chance that a lingering status effect would take effect in the tiny window between one application and the next, and that could mean disaster when toggles drop. There's no such motivation to allow +perception to stack like that.

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Yes, it does, if you read the skill description it even says that it self stacks for some of its benefits, one of which is +PER. We run Clarity in WB for the same reason. It's mezz protection doesn't seem to stack, tho' I haven't tested that myself.