Tainted_Greek_EU

Missed the test fights but ty for the fun afterwards

I think that only when you reduce the interrupt time of the heal you can activate it through such things and all PvPers enhance this anyway no?

Hmmm gohan you are wrong in this scenario tho.In a 10 min fight in arena a scrapper versus a troller especially a regen is pretty much toasted at some point since burning bf's is really easy with trollers especially illusion.

The only case the controller would need BF's imho is versus MA or maybe spines in case he has no CJ or a fear pool or a DM scrapper.The scrapper is at a disadvantage against a controller most times.Even with full tray of bf's

*POPS A HUGE MTF FoW*

Let me guess.Was this scrapper like a Sash that Mutated?

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Guess there's a Xanthus in all of us

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In me maybe.INSIDE ME NO WAI!!!!!....

Couldnt make it for this one.Unfortunately huge time difference is really something that cant quite help me for attending every Monday.

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Now do yourself a favour and do not reply to my posts. I am "tired" of you.

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I can reply as much as i like provided i expressed my opinion about mind/kin combo in PvP

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All these builds above are min/maxxed badly . I now challenge the clever Tainted to have a go.

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I wont have a go because like i said i wouldnt play ill/kin for pvp plus i dont min/max any of my builds but if you think that the above builds are min maxed badly for pvp i am curious to read your pvpeness when it comes to builds.I am sure it will be something similar to the Spines scrapper vs Invul.Hope you dont use that PvE tool you have for Damage Sustainability in PvP.

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PVP duelling is kiss chase. Its about who can run the fastest. One AT given a squash racket with another given a Vector Uzi Full Auto.

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This is called mobility which requires a thing called coordination and awareness something "Secretwaysoftauntingthatnooneelseknowsandonlymyoo bernessunderstandanddontmakemyspinesscrapperkillal linvultank
ersingamebecauseiusedthepvesoftwaretocalculatedama gesustainabilityinpvp" geniouses cant quite fully grasp.

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Reroll a Mind/Kin .

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Mind/kin for zonal PvP....ok right. Better stay with illusion.

I think you are right prefering the stalker for PvP since ill/kin in zonal is not easy to play especially when you not have regular team coming with you something like a damage dealer you can buff etc.

I went through the build etc.But i think Globey will post something since he has more experience with ill.One thing i can tell you for sure is you need to make a lot of changes for sure.Like slotting with a lot more acc some powers.Changing swift for hurdle etc etc.

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Warburg seems to be the Union zone of choice, and Siren's Call seems to be ours

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Not really the case.Its just that besides Sirens WB is active as well.

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Ah well it maybe just me but i find ninja sword a rather good set, Oh and who cares if everything has resistance to lethal atleast it's a decent challenge chopping someone up

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The problem is ninja blade works reverse. As levels go up the worse it gets in pvp. Till SC it can be ok. In WB it becomes the happiness of all squishies. In RV just dont come at all with ninja blade cause epic shields on squishies and the HP boosts and IO's simply make Ninja blade stalkers suicidal.

I really think regarding Union we should start setting up some standard nights for Arena and Zonal events and having them stickied.

Yay.But i doubt they ll be up for this...

Welcome to the forum You might wanna pm Kerensky to move this post to the blaster forum since this is the tanker section

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You say that if Aid Self was nerfed we would only see (x ATs) in the zones. But thats the problem! i.e. if you plat (x ATs) you "MUST" take Aid Self!

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Aid Self is not a must imho.Builds can vary a lot based on personal preferance. My blaster has no aid self yet i got no issue surviving in PvP zones.I have an ice/em tank that the epic is ice and a totally different build than the usual for ice tanks.

It all boils down to personal imagination.I can tell you now i had duels with 2 different SR scrappers fully IOed really good players within the zone with aid self and i have survived numerous times and killed them many times. It all boils down to what you wanna be able to do and what you aim.I want a nice Zonal build that can function solo as well as go full force in teams in arena and zone.Yeah i will lose the occasional duel i will win some but my toon goes on fire when i enter a team.

Its all down to what you wanna do with your toon and find a way to do it.

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Im not saying I have the answers, and I have pretty much taken back all the "propposed solutions" of my OP as ill thought out. But, again, I emphasise that it is to PvE'ers that PvP zones must cater for if they are to grow, not PvP'ers.

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I think this debate is really interesting and raises some nice issues and had some nice brainstorming regarding solutions to these issues.

threadomancy ftw...

Falcon is one of the guys that has my respect in PvP zones for trying hard no matter what he plays and always watches how more experienced players move and attack and also having the gutts to ask for help which is given to him without problems.

for a newcomer is pretty much enough to say he participated amongst the hardcores in the match against Vigilance with his tank and did a great job.

Regarding this PvEvP thingy.I would love to see a PvE arena with the suggestion i made sometime ago with the increased mob spawns which would have a random chance of linking 2 teams against each other while in this PvE arena in the middle of the whole mob spawn mayhem.

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I wonder if PvP could be "advertised". Maybe a PvE'ers PvP night?

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I believe we are looking at creating on Union a casual PvP night for Arena and maybe another FFA night in WB which last time was good fun with just solo FFA's and mostly chat about builds and so on.Knight Stalker i believe will be doing something related to Arena events so we see soon regarding this.

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If there was enough enthusiasm and good will this might be fun?. For instance, we gather into teams, have a laugh for an hour or two, and its all in "PvE spirit". No elitism, no ganking, all politeness. Maybe a nice PvP er could lead each team, offer freindly advice, and try to convert us?. And any 1137 speaking, trashtalking, elitist ganker in the zone could be excommunicated from any team and repeatedly pounded to earth until he leaves us alone?

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For the record this already takes place every Monday on test server and last night we had some really good fun by trying this on Union.Was random fun of arena with no overpowering and so on.

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No way either. A full PvEer is hard to get into pvp, since it needs more effort to do it.

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This is easily doable imho.Last Arena Night on Union proved it to be so.We had some newcomers in the matches that had some really good fun.

All we need is some organisation i believe and pulling it a bit together.But people need to be willing and try out.When we enter in Arena at Monday Nights is not to rip people to pieces but to have fun.I not mind going with a weaker team and split up from my teammates just to help another team learn a few things.Even if we lose the people will have fun and people need understand that everyone is welcome in such things PvE or PvP buildwise and that the people creating the matches and events aim towards people having fun and not blasting newcomers to pieces.At least from my experience with any Arena matches i have been.

Even the massive 16vs16 match we had versus the french was really really good fun and despite losing and so on there was a really sportmanship like atmosphere to the whole event and no ROFLOLOLOL WE OWNED j0000 FACES by the French and my hat off to Delphen and his company for that.Was good fun and thats it and looking forward to a rematch.

Only sidetrack thing was Psydock getting me nuked. >

Some interesting points raised so i will answer in one post both.

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DIshing out rewards, will, at worse, do not harm - but I think energy is better spent addressing other issues. Does that make sense?

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It does from one point.But there is another reason why rewards are requested so much. For duration.And this is not only for PvE people but PvP population as well.I recall a chat with Imaginary a while ago.We came to conclusiont that even the hardcore PvPers despite loving PvP so much in CoX they got no reason to do it other than...killing.I gain absolutely nothing atm by PvPing.I got 5 400 PvP reputation toons as it is atm and when i step into a PvP zone there is nothing for me to look for other than some good fun and challenge.Rewards will give duration to PvP and badges imho are not serious rewards or PvP reputation unless they unlock the cap.Even then despite this being a small change it will make a LOT of difference for many PvPers.I PvP since day 1.My PvP rep could have skyrocketed by now.What do i have to show for it?A 400 PvP reputation badge that a 1-2 months PvPers can easily acquire as well.

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One (potential} problem with rewards is this:- It creates a capatalistic economy. THe more powerful (successful) players get more rewards making them more powerful still, etc etc.

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I suggested this sometime ago.Rewards dont have to be recipes or something based on a capitalistic system.Other PvP reward system could be fine.

A veteran PvP system would work perfect.With powers unlocked as you accumulate PvP reputation and locked as the PvP reputation decays.Would bind really nicely.An AoE buff for blasters and a variety of powers that could add some really nice spice in PvP and would be totally locked out in PvE the moment you step out the zone. Is totally disconnected from a capitalistic system and i bet would make the zones and arena full of people.

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If this was considered, I would urge the rewards to be ones that CAN, just as easily, be obtained in PvE so we dont get this cycle.

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I fully agree here provided the rewards were something that would fit in the capitalistic system.In my scenario with a veteran PvP system this thing should be exclusive to PvP to not create unbalance in PvE and to also make PvP more attractive.

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HOwever, that all changes in PvP. Why the heck would I want to enter a PvP zone with my laisez fare non min/maxed, PvE build toon?. Im fighting at a huge disadvantage.

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Fully agree on this.The only solution to this is a dual build system which SHOULD have been here a long time ago considering the effort necessary to get to 50 and how massively different PvP is to PvE in this game.

You know after i9 and i11 i have some faith in the devs restored and i am hoping that somewhere along the following issues we will get some radical PvP changes.

The leveling field you describe i will still support the Arena toggle option of accolades and IO's but total remove from PvP zones is a big no no from me.I still stand for the tremendous effort that needs to be put to make such toons.

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But I guess the psychology of it is? Why bother? All those PvP guys are at a straight power advantage anyway? Even if I can face trying to within without skill AND at a handicap, im still left with a toon that is gimped compared to all those PvP players with hardcore IO's, FoTM, PvP specific builds.

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The why is easy to answer. PvP is a far greater challenge.Those that decide to rise to the challenge are determined and will go through with it.Every single one of the core PvP community the so called veteran PvPers around here has gone through this process not once but multiple times.I play lately a fire/energy blaster.When i started fighting in PvP zones i swear i was cannon fodder.I died so much was unbelievable.At the moment i can hold my own against pretty much anything let alone the terror i spread to stalkers.This aint by chance.I died tons but i kept observing my weaknesses.Asked a lot of people to help me with my build and took advice from many like Phil,Globey etc.Attended a couple Arena nights to watch how others play their blasters. It was a curve everyone has to go through with every new toon to get the hand of it.

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Anyway, hope I have stimulated a few thoughts. I hope something happens to entice us guys into PvP

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as it is now with action having picked up a lot on Union with the transfers we are looking at creating some events that will address to casual PvPers as well. Prolly starting with a level 1-10 tournament or something like that will be a pretty even play field and moving on to creating some events within the zones to attract some more people.This is our own initiative at least as PvP community.

More to come soon

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I hope something happens to entice us guys into PvP. Not because I want to PvP at the moment. But for two interconnected reasons. Firstly, it will make you PvP'ers happy (a good thing in itself), and Secondly, it will make the game as a whole more healthy, and therefore have greater longevity.

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Spot on.100% with you there.


Now moving on to Angelstar post:

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I'd disagree that PvE's dislike a level playing field, the difference between the 500m inf IO empath and an SO'd scrap IO user is negligable in PvE, the content was aimed at the SO level and thus while the IO'r is superior the SO's hold their ground.

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This wont be the case for long tho. I11 will change this a lot with IO Builds being very superior compared to SO builds when it comes to missions where you can set the parameters.And there the playing field changes a lot.

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Even if they do stay around a while, start learning their way around PvP they will still get hammered because of the difference in build and enhancements.

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This aint the usual case for many reasons. First of all you are talking duels here.Zones though and team arena are hugely different.In zones you get many X factors that turn the flow of the zone at any given moment.Anyone has the chance to kill anyone based on how they choose to fight their opponent.Want an example?when i solo with my blaster and there is a lot of people and i know i might get pounded i do occasionally some sneaky alliance.I ask a friend stalker to guard my back against a stalker on me while i chase someone else.Or i ask for an AS on someone that is on my case while i am on someone else.The zones are unpredictable and FoTM means nothing against tactics.

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Complete disabling of IO's would be a step backward and isn't the solution, but maybe making one of the zones and making it an arena option, set bonus free could certainly help to provide a place for the more casual PvP'er

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Agreed on the arena option.Also you need to keep in mind that almost noone has sets in SC and BB.And few of us got IO's in WB.Most IOed toons you will meet in RV.So this gives you 2 zones with little to totally no set IO's,one zone that people might choose to bring in sets at the expense of % in power slotting and 1 zone where toons come in full force.So its not so absolute as you think.

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As much as I applaud the idea of dual builds, I really don’t see it happening. So in effect we have two parties

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This is really up to the devs depending how much they want to bring the 2 aspects of the game closer and bridge the gap of PvE and PvP builds.A dual build solution or infinite respecs bridges the gap instantly.

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But there are missions that can be done in PvP zones and perhaps it might be nice to see those introduced in a more interactive way.

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Would be nice and i like the proposal.

Ninja Blade is an average set in general.So this is pretty much expected regarding damage.

Interesting post Cog nice issues to discuss imho.

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1. We don't want rewards.

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While its a valid point i ll have to disagree. This is human nature.Risk vs reward is what drives the majority of MMO population.

Currently as it is PvE risk vs Reward is translated into XP,Recipes,Salvage,Badges,TO's,DO's,SO's,IO's,HO's and an info panel with various ladders.

PvP reward is translated into SO's,PvP reputation that is limited to a certain number and a few badges despite the fact that there is equal effort required if not greater and the level of challenge is more elevated.

Rewards is a really good measure towards increasing popularity of anything imho within an MMO.Is a good place to start with.

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2. We like a level playing feild.

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Thats not true either imho.If you like a level playing field then all PvE population not only should have the same set playing with but IO's shouldnt be available anywhere in the game.Because my empath is surely far more overpowered in PvE than anyother Empath with SO's but i dont hear anyone moaning about IO's in PvE and how they ruin the even playfield.

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disable Inventions / Accolades. Give us a level playing feild. Or at least give us this option in the Arena.

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Give the option in arena : Yes Totally disable : No The time and effort invested to fully IO toons is tremendous and this effort is rewarded through better performance.In all aspects.If they disable in PvP inventions disable them in PvE too.

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3. PvP Builds

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I disagree vertically here since there have been far better suggestions to solve this.Dual build system,PvP build switch,Infinite respecs.

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Buff AoE powers against *players*

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Some Aoe powers against players are hugely effective against players --->inferno,mass terror,quicksand.glue arrow

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nerf aid self for instance.

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Why?I think is perfectly fine?!

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Decrease -fly powers, increase - jump powers.

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Again why?

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A possibly more attractive PvP "mode" for us useless PvE'ers would be team PvP in close quaters - i.e. A more "PvE" like environment.

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The only option like this atm is turning off travel powers in arena and base raids.The problem here lies with the far greater mobility and speed PvP takes place compared to PvE but i think this is the real winner of CoX PvP.Take this way and it will be WoW.

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Attitude. Or - I dont really care much for "i pwnz joo".

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I agree here with pretty much what you said.But!I think PvP zones are really friendly atm.At least from my experience on Union and Defiant.Casual players come in,we have laughs over broadcast,chat our builds,tactics,hey even life at times or gossip.Also PvP zones are far more chatty imho due to the fact that you dont aim for an end mission reward you are not all the time against mobs.Problem is CoX PvP differs a lot compared to other PvP games like WoW and L2 where its far more hardcore and competitive environment.The issue here lies that a lot of PvE population have really bad experiences from previous games and dont bother here at all.Yes trashtalk happens at times and things can get rough but in end of day it happens everywhere.Its not a constant I PWN YOU ALL race.

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5. FoTM Builds, or be 1337 or be cannon fodder

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This is a tough one.I think this is a grey area.I strongly believe that all the FoTM in the world dont make up for player skill in this game because we aint gear dependant.A skilled person will take down a Fotm without any issues.The problem lies here i think in the learning curve for PvP.People need understand that its a pretty steep curve.You need to know what happens on you around you and on other.You need to be aware what is hitting,what is the best reaction to the situation coming and how you will adjust to it and if you run or stand and fight.This cant happen from day one.There is catching up to be done.This is why i keep saying that it is essential to understand that at the beginning newcomers to PvP zones will die a lot.As they watch observe and learn this number will start changing.More survivability more awareness.Its up to them how steep this curve will be.The progress can be faster by asking on broadcast,and through tells more experienced people and the core of PvP community for help and i swear there is not a single person from the core PvPers on Defiant and Union that wont gladly offer help against any problem even giving tips against their own builds.

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6. Finally - its not Immersive / theres no story.

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Solution: Give us a story!. I cant see anything wrong with a co-op Zone fighting Rikti invaders and EACH OTHER!. Run more big epic fights!. RV is an example.

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RV is a really bad implementation.However!!!An instanced PvP even that occurs every lets say 1 hour,with some massive invasions from both sides and heroes vs villains battling it out would be nice provided there were some really good rewards.I have in mind something like AV in WoW tbh.

Main points imho

- Dual Builds would allow easier switch between PvE and PvP for casuals and wouldnt make them feel as underpowered as now when they venture in zones with PvE builds.

- Better rewards are essential i believe.I am 100% sure PvP zones will have a lot more people if more rewards and a good ladders system are introduced.


finally i had a situational as i was typing this post that i would like to see.A better use of the PD. I would like PD to be used as an "underground" place where characters battle it out and players have the option of placing bets (inf,recipes etc etc) on the winner and so on.It's highly unlikely tho cause it would be easily exploitable.Still seems very immersive to me.

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#3 regen on stalker.....bleh. Not enough HP to begin with, there isn't one recovery aspect of it, unlike other sets. (this being a stalker problem not just connected to my sets)

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Stalker HP is just fine considering the amount of damage they can dish out.If they buff up the HP of stalkers they are ruining the balance of AT's. Stalkers get really high damage and criticals and all the hide goodies and in return they get lower HP.It's fine as it is.

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Few attacks in blade, your effectively wittled down to using AS,plac, soaring and golden. Problem yet again being loading, dmg and acc.

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Tbh this is pretty much same as the scrapper with the lack of Taunt (Calling the Wolf) and Lotus Drops which is a PbAOE which essentially the stalker wont be using as much or not at all and even if they got to use Lotus Drops a PbAoE that crits frokm hide would be OP. If we talking PvP he wont be using at all.So again the set is just fine.

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but it's very slow (even with hasten) and the dmg is pathetic

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You can get on with placing some sets to enhance speed but 7 seconds for AS is a good speed imho and the rest of the recharges are aligned to the scrapper set. Katana is a Medium damage set sitting below Energy and MA together with Spines with an average speed.So there is no problem.If you want a faster recharge set you could have a look at claws that has some really good recharges.

Finally the problem with slotting is easy to solve since if you go into the black market you can easily acquire Acc/Dmg enhancements that will allow you to slot recharge.

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mentioned about Rad/Thermal to my friends (all Stalkers and most being Em/Nin) just laughed at the idea, and a wall of "loloollololololololololol" etc. ensued.

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Well when you get to 50 and they ask you to buff em and heal tell them "lololololololol"

What syn said pretty much covers it. A thermal will rarely have time for anything else but buff and heal in pvp zones and Cosmic burst is pretty nice.