Syra

Well, despite the advice given here, I played around a little and went for....a Mind/FF Controller.

Oh. My. DEITY.

I never, ever, ever, ever thought I'd take to a support Archetype, never mind so quickly. I'm only level 8 at the moment, but it's a lot of fun and the shields compliment her well; Auggy's still free to cause mayhem, but I keep her nice and safe by boosting her defense values and confusing/sleeping the mobs after her tail.

I'll post my build on the Controller forum later; I can see myself sticking with Deviant Flux for quite some time.

Thanks for your input anyway, guys.

Hmm, looks like FF or /Kin defending then, heh.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'll fiddle with some builds later.

Ok, having recently reactivated my girlfriend decided to leap straight into an MA/SR Scrapper (almost completely recycling her MA/SR Stalker build, at that), whereas I went with Dark/Dark.

Granted, we're only level 6 but even know I'm feeling a bit squishy to really help her if she gets in over her head (indeed, during the flurry of math she was hurling at me last night, she grumbled about apparent weaknesses in the /SR set). So...I'm wondering, what sort of character do you think would duo well with a Scrapper like hers?

I'm thinking a Tanker, but that might be a bit TOO safe for her. A Blaster? Defender? I want to help, but at the same time I don't want to go swiping all the glory and making her feel redundant.

Any advice for this would be massively appreciated.

I'd reccomend EVIL.

I've been with them for a little while now, and I've enjoyed every moment with them; they Roleplay incredibly frequently, and there's a good sense of being snug with the other members.

Take a peek at the website, speak with a few members; get a handle on things.

Sadly, I can't dedicate as much time to them as I used to - for a variety of reasons - but they're understanding if you've got good reasons.

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Yes, but imagine the attention Co[VH] would garner if we managed to finally resolve that question here in this forum. You can't but that kind of publicity for money! :-P

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CoX: Making You Not Dumb(tm).

Basically, how well would this work out? To date, I only have experience with being solo as a Stalker.

My girlfriend is playing an MA/SR Stalker, and I intend to either go with a Claw/Energy Stalker, or Energy/Inv Brute. A Brute and a Stalker I have experience with, but how would two Stalkers work out? With nobody there to really diffuse the alpha strike from the larger spawns, how would we survive in - say - kill all missions?

Hopefully I've made any sense. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

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One of the things I find objectionable about this debate is the lack of willingness to accept other peoples' viewpoints. Something which Syra and Augury are particularly guilty of in this instance, in some cases coming close to being insulting with their responses.

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That was really quite un-neccesary, Word, especially when you yourself seem pretty unwilling to shift in viewpoint.

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Remind me which inspiration it is that allows you to counter instadeath from stalkers then :P

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There are currently more powers in the game that allow you to counter stealth than there are to actually hide away. This isn't even counting inspirations.

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ve taken everything he/she has had to say thusfar and turned it on its head, to try and use it to rudely reflect on the opening poster. Simply put, nobody likes to be mezzed, and simply sit there doing nothing whilst they get seven shades of snot kicked out of them. He/she posted a suggestion. It doesnt matter whether it was overly elaborate, they tried to contribute. All you have done so far, is be rude where there wasnt any actual call to be so. If you looked at how they phrased that line about being "insulted", they were simply asking for people to do more than simply say "thats silly" then leave the thread.

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Except we have been saying more than that.

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Did you somehow get the impression that the suggester was trying to force their idea down on everyone?

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Because the OP is coming across as someone that views any opposite viewpoint as an insult and "pointless".

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Yes, but if people could play a more active part in preventing mez than just having mez resist running, the game would be more involving. Nobody likes to be simply stood there, waiting to leave their mez-state, so these kinds of ideas are a step in the right direction, even if nobody likes them. At least someone is being creative and relevant with their posting, eh? Punishing someone with the critical "sit the hell back down" tone you've been using, just for making an attempt at a suggestion, is the only 'utterly pointless' thing I see going on here.
Hence this post.

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Yet the OP continues to complain about mez effects as if they're everywhere, nobody can do anything about them and every single class can use them at all times.

Hence my comment about him/her needing to adapt to a PvP situation.

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Discussion is also about disagreeing and further developing ideas, even if it means concluding that its not what most people want. The disagreement would have lived fine without this critique on the thread poster, and in my opinion, it would be a lot better without. You again misinterpret his use of the word "insult", he was using it in a passive way to show he'd much rather prefer someone did something creative with his idea rather than just dismiss it, even if they bring up a completely different approach altogether.

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Dismissing an idea and pointing out how it can very well be pointless to the game is part of a discussion.

As I also said, some of us don't feel mez effects need a "solution", so why should we offer one ourselves?

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Tone is important online, you probably meant no harm at all, but you really did come off like you were trying to -make- a target to shoot at, rather than pick off something that was left untouched.

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I do apologise for my original tone, but the OP is coming across as someone that wants a solution beyond what's already in the game.

Should be pointed out that, more often than not, a quick smack to the chops will normally end up negating the Placate effect if your animation starts around the same time as the Stalker's.

Fair enough, Syn, I'll concede that point. For now.

I still maintain, however, that a single good intention doesn't make up for everything else he's responsible for. Attempting to poison water supplies, the aformentioned psycho recruitment, his most trusted follower being someone who abducts innocents and has them carved up just so some rich fart can have a new face...etc, etc.

Heck, if one good act is enough to redeem anyone, we might as well as just say everyone on this Earth is pure.

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That's most assuredly not how it's presented to you by the contact, though. Seeing as you were so resolute on going by what the perception was as given by CoH not a few posts before, it seems a bit much of an about-turn to suddenly ignore what the game has to say, contextually, and make an abstract argument that at no point was theorised either explicitly or implicitly by the contact.

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Could you present what the contact says, then?

The only comments I've seen approaching that are from CoV contacts; which support the view he's only clearing things up to avoid Longbow diverting too many resources to his capture.

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Syra, you're applying your own moral viewpoint to him. You think he's evil. I think he's evil. Does he think he's evil, or just misunderstood and trying to do a good thing the only way he knows how?

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This is CoX, though; good and evil do exist. Whether he thinks is evil is largely irrelevant when we're using a gameworld's sense of morals.

When the other villain groups - responsible for the summoning of demons, rife street violence, oppression and so forth - won't have anything to do with him because they think his methods are sick, and they're acknowledging what they do is evil, then I see the "but he doesn't think he's evil" viewpoint as a bit of a cop-out for him.

If I was to murder someone then say "oh, I don't it's evil" that doesn't make it any less of an evil act.

One good intention doesn't excuse evil methods and a barbaric approach. He recruits psychopaths and sadists that are shown to enjoy cutting up innocents; as evidenced in a great deal of their dialogue, and a number of missions.

And Syn, we could easily argue he's only wanting to clean up that plague because he's getting too much outside interest from it. If the world's eye is on him, it's going to be incredibly difficult to make a move without Heroes leaping on him; this is exactly why, in City of Villains, he's unable to get any sort of strong position within the Rogue Isles.

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n CoX, a supervillain is basically someone using superpowers without being a registered hero.

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Er, no. Non-registered Heroes just act without legal support; meaning the people they arrest were, more often than not, going to get off on a technicality.

Plus, as Augury pointed out, by your interpretation Atlas and everyone else pre-Right for Might were super villains.

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And IMO, the definition of a villain would be "One who does what he pleases without caring about any rules or restrictions", which doesnt necessarily make one evil, unless one wishes to do evil things.

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We're going by the gameworld's view, here.

In the CoX series, the villains are evil, and they do commit evil acts.

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In the gameworld, he's a villain, because he's breaking the laws. However, being a villain is totally different from being evil.

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Not in CoX it isn't.

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I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that he is technically not 'evil', in the normal meaning of the word.

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But in the gameworld he is.

Good and evil are actual, tangible concepts within the CoX universe. There are some shades of grey, yes, but saying he isn't evil in CoX just because he's insane doesn't excuse anything.

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Dr. Vahz is NOT evil, he is just misunderstood in his attempts to bring immortality to mankind, as I noted in one of my previous posts.

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Kidnapping civilians, harvesting their organs, stealing corpses from morgues....etc, etc.

Evil the Rogue Isles won't have anything to do with him; there's actually a number of missions where you focus on getting him out of the Isles, and it's pretty heavily suggested that the Heroes in Paragon only found Dr.V because of the contact's actions.

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But the contact, and the ultimate purpose of the mission is not evil, which was my point

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But the character is led down the arc, under the impression he or she will be murdering the leader of the Scrapyarders. The contact isn't "evil", as such, but you follow it thinking the result will be evil.

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She didn't infect midas herself, she just didnt want to tell him his condition

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Actually, it's pretty heavily implied that she was responsible for his condition. Midas' condition didn't start until after you've stolen equipment from Arachnos for Percey.

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But he does it only to advance science, not because he's evil

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Killing super heroes for the sole purpose of replicating their powers to use in selfish ends isn't evil? That's not advancing science; that's advancing his own power and influence.

Oh, yeah, he also kidnaps homeless people off the streets to butcher them for his experiments.

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Again, not evil

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Um, the Carnies manipulate people and subvert their free will to expand their ranks. If the Carnies had a much stronger position in St.Martial - the point of the contact's actions - they would be able to do this to a lot more people. The comments made by Carnies at their circus area support this.

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Many of hard case's missions are about helping civilians against wailers, which is not 'evil' IMO.

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Once again, it's a response to an attack and sorting out the mess of a demonic invasion. Not evil, no, but hardly altruistic.

Max.

That Pirate mis-leads you; it's not until the arc's over that his true intentions are revealed (Up until the finale, you think you're handing her over to be murdered).

The Doc in Cap studies people she infects herself, without the person knowing (King Midas).

Doc.Creed is an absolute psycho who dissects the bodies of Heroes so he can replicate their powers in his experiments.

The Carnie contact isn't just out for chaos; she's turning everyone against each other so the Carnies themselves can sweep in and clear out.

Saving St.Martial from attacks isn't altruistic in nature; it's an understandable reaction to an invasion force.

Actually, I did listen.

Your comments about casual gamers, running out of inspirations....etc, ARE weak arguments as the game IS casual friendly and you can just go and stock up on inspirations all over again. It's the same complaints people had about Stalkers; they were kicking up an enormous fuss about the current "state" of the system, yet didn't bother to use the resources that are easily available.

I'm sorry, but if you're not willing to adapt to PvP, you deserve to be splatted by people that focus on that part of the game.

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So what is it that you are contributing to this discussion?

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Funnily enough, just because you think it's a solution doesn't mean that everyone else does.

Why add an enormously complicated solution to a problem that doesn't exist? It's like me adding a safety trigger to keyboards; utterly pointless, and just a waste of resources. There are already solutions to the "mez" problem; abilities, inspirations and so forth.

Complaining that we "insult" your idea and insinuating we're adding nothing to the discussion - when a discussion is more than people just nodding and agreeing with one another - is a very weak strawman.

Actually, we can quite happily "insult" your idea and leave it at that. You know why? Because some of us don't see anything that needs a "solution".

The problem is with percieved balance issues between ATs; not how the mez system works. There are ways to counter the mez effects, even avoid them completely, and adding complicated methods to try and "solve" the problem won't do a thing.

Toss around "I'm a casual player!" all you want, but the fact remains Cryptic have provided ways for "casual" players to participate in PvP. If you run out of the appropiate inspirations? Get more.

If you keep running out of them, then I think you might want to address your playstyle, not the game.

Mrmph, well, due to a creativity crash and certain outside influences, I'm abandoning Down Came the Rain for now; I've tried to write up the next part, but nothing really clicks and I can't get myself involved with what I'm doing. If I don't feel any emotional attachment to what's being typed up, as far as I'm concerned the project isn't worth prolonging.

Thanks for the feedback, even if nothing really came of it.

Hopefully I'll have something a little more substantial and heart-felt to work with in future.

/EDIT - Although in an attempt to salvage some interest, might it be possible to gain a few comments on the stories I have linked in my signature? I've been feeling a little nostalgic lately, and even though I'm not particuarly keen on WoW itself these days, I'm still hugely proud of what I wrote during my time with the game.

It's an overly-complicated solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Even though PvP isn't perfectly balanced, mez effects can be countered - even avoided - and I don't think throwing an overly-elaborate, and quite likely impossible with the current engine, "game" into proceedings would help at all.

Sorry, Bridge, I should have elaborated a little.

What I was talking about specifically are the actions available to players; it's often very clear-cut as to what the moral and ethical implications are with a Villain's actions, be it murder, extortion or some other "evil" act. There are shades of grey, of course - within a few of the missions I mean - but I just don't feel there are enough to make a satisfactory or well "written" Villain PC.

Some people might change the outcome of missions to suit their character, but then that brings a problem already talked about; namely ignoring the world just so you can play something which the setting isn't built for. If you're going to pretend that the target NPC is alive and well, when the mission giver clearly states otherwise, or will just say "oh, I warned Longbow that my disguise means destroying their base so they cleared up" it goes beyond suspension of disbelief and into the realms of very weak plot. Yes, there is the issue of Frostfire always being there - or Ballista 1 forever laying siege to the Skyraider's base - but these are inherent weaknesses you're going to have no matter the MMORPG; further complicating them and adding non-loreful branches ("OMG! Clones!") just muddies it even further, as not only do you have to deal with the limited game mechanics, but about three billion conflicting IC experiences.

This is why I don't think "Heroes" in CoV, or Villains in CoH, work in the slightest; if you just twist and shape everything to suit you - not the world - what's the point of playing in that world to begin with? We're players after all, not the Storytellers, when it comes to following story arcs and so forth.

In player stories - when you're not leaning on pre-fabricated NPCs in the game - I don't mind if people have certain outcomes for things and change accordingly. It's just the aformentioned "oh, he really just escaped, I never killed him despite Arachnos having his body, blood and surviving family members" stuff I dislike.

Finally, people often cite anti-heroes such as the Punisher to defend Heroes/Villains outside of their respective game; but what these same people often forget is that people such as the Punisher wouldn't be responsible for a great deal of the stuff you do in CoX.

The Punisher's an anti-hero, true, but he'd never unleash poisons and toxins on the civilian populace after murdering a Heroine as she slept.

If that doesn't make any sense, and I doubt it will at this hour of the night, just tell me and I'll try to explain whatever it is you didn't get.