Synaesthetix

Fury != Rage. That's not me being pedantic, just a disambiguation - Rage is a buff in the SS sets.

That said... I'd take a look at what attacks you're using to build up your Fury, and your toggle management - I sometimes drop the less necessary toggles in order to squeeze that much more endurance out for my attacks, but it's a risk - a calculated one, but a risk all the same. You could always slot EndReds in your attacks. Making more Insp tray space in favour of blues over all else is also a risk. Failing that, find a /Rad Corruptor (after level 4) or a /Kin Corruptor (after level 20), and befriend them.

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When Syn and the Question argue it gose on for days and days theres no stoping it.

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But at least you all have something to read, you ingrates.

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Syn's arguing for a situation which in 99 times out of 100 the Controllers win.

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But that "99/100" is based only on supposition and a lack of lateral thinking - Fortis fortuna adiuvat, after all.

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In one the Controlers go afk so the gimp Claws/SR Scrapper can tickle the Controllers to death with his highly resisted damage type.

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Highly resisted by... what exactly? Did these Controllers pick up Tough? Do they have a glut of big orange insps? Do I point out now or later that 5/6 Scrapper primaries have the most resisted damage type as their main form of attack? The only scenario in which Res is a factor is if there's a /Sonic 'troller involved.

I'd have thought that you'd have known how quickly a Claws Scrapper can output damage to squishies, though.

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All gravity immobs holds etc(Can be highly stacked).
All ice holds immobs etc(Can be highly stacked).
Snow Storm.
Quicksand.
Ice pets.
Lingering Radiation.

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All but two of those have to hit - and AoE powers have inherently poor accuracy. SR has a boost to AoE defence, in addition. Watch out for the Quicksand, hope I don't get Snow Storm toggled onto me - I can just about manage that. Get hit with a slow? Elude, Elude, Elude to at least get the movement speed back.

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What's stopping a Controller from getting big yellows to counter your big purples?

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Nothing, but you've got SR toggles, auto powers, Elude and the possibility of big Fort buffs. Slotted Fort is the best thing since sliced sashimi.

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What's stopping them from getting big purples?

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Then I don't have to worry about them having big yellows.

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Great, neiter of you can hit eachother for however long they last. Great you might get forts and leaderhip buffs but they might get those too.

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If they have Forts, that's one less /Rad or /Storm to worry about. Things are looking up! The more /Emps the are, the easier it gets, right? (Unless it gets to a point where they stick aura on autofire, and then it becomes an exercise in futility and we all go home for supper.)

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A very good tool for use against Controllers is knockback I agree, but hey - you mention you might even have vengeance - so might they, and Vengeance gives knockback protection.

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But you have to be in PBAoE range for Vengeance to work - and we already went over the problems with grouping together. Worst case scenario: they get Vengeanced and I SJ/GhettoJump away.

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Also, a Controller with a mind for PvP is going to have hover, one of them may even have group fly, which counters knockback.

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Hover ain't that fast any more, and Group Fly is a good way to burn through endurance and fly like a particularly fat pigeon - shooting fish in a barrel. (That said, I wonder how useful Team Teleport would be in the new PvP zones.) I can cycle Focus just about fast enough on its own to keep someone spinning at least 50% of the time, I reckon - more if you add Shockwave in there. Question: when immobilised with a Spines attack, how does that affect player KB attacks on the same target?

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You'd isolate the ones stopping melee from getting near, do you think they'll let you? They'll just blink in your direction and you will be destroyed, maybe just TK you into a corner.

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Destroyed by what, exactly? And it's my job to make sure I stay away from corners.

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Before that they might annihilate the defenders looking after you, maybe one Controller for each defender.

Ask Blue Shadow - A Controller can eat through a Defender's full break free tray in one or two minutes.

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And that's the Defender's job to look out for themselves - plus, a 'troller hunting a Defender is a 'troller who's not watching out for me.

As pointed out by myself, I'm not planning on doing this solo - I'll have 7 other teammates working with me. If all that effort has been concentrated on just taking me down, what the hell are my buddies doing - playing hopscotch?

So many variables, so many possibilities. To turn the tables, if I could: what would your tactics be, as a Spines/Regen? That's not a challenge, I'm just interested in hearing your views.

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4. Don't argue with Midnight, you'll never win

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Hi, I'm Syn - we must not have met.



FWIW, I'm not trying to "win" anything - I'm just throwing up ideas for discussion by means of taking an opposing stance. The problem with Question is, he takes everything so damn personally, it makes intelligent debate (or as close as we'll get to it on here) next to impossible. So far, no-one's presented enough of a convincing argument to sway me from my position, but I'm more than willing to listen to more theories. I'm going to be at work for the next 8 hours come what may, I figure it's best to keep my mind ticking over somehow - might as well do it with pointless theorising, right?

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But of course you still had to tell us all about the highly intelligent and pithy remark that you made, because otherwise no-one would pay you any attention whatsoever and that would just be terrible.

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It was more for anyone who'd seen the original comment and wondered what happened to it. People pay attention to me anyway, whether I desire it or not - sometimes I just like to have normal discussions with people who don't take every reply as a personal affront. *shrugs* It's always a pleasure to teach you new vocabulary, though.

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CM's don't affect portions of a Controllers repetoire.

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But they do block a lot of it. The less effective you can make an AT, the easier they become to defeat - and that works globally.

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But of course your the tactical mastermind who knows how to get around Whirlwind, Telekinesis and a ton of stacked Slow powers. I really wish you'd write your tactics down sometime, because I'm really missing how your defeating all of these affects.

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Speaking personally? As an SR with Quickness and the possibility of an AB on me - Slow what now? Slow powers that have to hit... have to hit, and look, I have a tray of big farmed purple pills here - how handy - and 2 Forts, plus whatever Maneuvers the Empaths are running - maybe even Vengeance, who knows? As a Claws Scrapper, I have the advantage of an extremely fast-loading Focus and Shockwave - ranged attacks, just fyi - and unless those 'trollers have ID on them, they (and the majority of their pets) are going to spend a lot of time on their backsides. [censored] it, I just can't stop pimping Knockback.

If they start scattering, they lose the effect of Leadership buffs - if they huddle together, they're a static target. I wouldn't like to hypothesise further, because any one of a hundred things could happen from that point, but I'd probably try to isolate the stormies so that my other teammates could get to work.

And that's just me, a gimpy Claws/SR, they have to worry about. Food for thought, no? Certainly more food for thought than the exclusivist pov of "zomg scrappers r hosed ", anyway.

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No holding anything to me when I post under the influence.

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Noted.

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here's one i see a lot

ftw/4tw - for the win - something which will make victory certain. normally used for bragging reasons "yeah <insert players AT here> ftw!! i pwn!" etc

not sure if its invaded CoH yet, but i'm sure it will in time

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It has. It's also used in a highly ironic sense as well, depending on whom you team with - as in, "BRAWL FTW!", or "SR ftw!" (before jumping into a roomful of DE).

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I'm a pvp pro so be quiet.

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[edit: I did say something, but in the interests of not being a [censored], I scrapped (snerk) it. That's my good deed of the day, go me.]

Clear Minds stack, Fortitude stacks, Defenders run Leadership toggles better than Controllers do. Sure, if you get a team of Scrappers charging en-masse in a straight line, they'll all be meeting by the hospital in the next few minutes - I credited you both with more nous than that, though. I'm not saying it'll be an easy fight by any stretch of the imagination, but I certainly don't think it'll be the walkover you envisage. Call me a loon, but I think 6 Blappers would also fare reasonably well, or [censored], a balanced team with any grasp of tactical thought. That's just crazy talk, though.

But for the sake of my keyboard, I'll agree to disagree - if you want to think "DOOOM", sobeit - but I'll be one of those fools who's running through the centre of Warburg with Elude on, vainly plinking away at that team of 'trollers if it comes down to it.

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Assault Rifle-good damage, smashing and lethal

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Smashing lethal is like the worst damage type to have.

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Not just that, but a large part of the powerset deals DoT as well - which makes AR worse still.

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Burst - L DoT
Slug - L ST (single-target)
Buckshot - L Cone
M30 Grenade - S/L Targeted AoE
Beanbag - minor L ST Disorient
Sniper Rifle - L ST snipe
Flamethrower - Fire DoT Cone
Ignite - Fire DoT Locational AoE
Full Auto - L DoT Wide Cone

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3/4 of AR's big hitters are DoT, 2/4 are Lethal damage - the one high damage single-target attack is the interruptible Sniper Rifle, which is Lethal damage. 3/4 of the big-hitters force you to 'root' for over 3 seconds.

I love my Franken-gun, but it's "good damage" only insomuch as it has a decent AoE damage output. Single-target, it struggles. But hey, with the new ragdoll physics, AR has never looked so cool.

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Anyone got any experiance with it?
I was testing it out on the er...test server and had it slotted 2 acc/ 2 conf / 2rchg and I noticed that some enemys wont confuse with the first application even though it hits and this is with minions,is this an accuracy thing or what? thanks dude's

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Confuse works first time on minions and Lts, unless they have a confuse res. Vengeance comprises a Confuse res, and arresting Nemesis Lts kicks off Vengeance.

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EDIT:Also do you only have to do 1 point of damage for the full xp of an enemy defeated by a confused enemy?

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Nope, it's a sliding scale - to steal from Breville...

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Confused damage is actually discounted by 75% when sharing up the xp between you and the confused mob, so you actually get more xp per amount damage you deal. If you do half the damage and Mob A does half, then you will get 80% of the xp, but if mob A does all the damage, you will get no xp at all.

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I can't outdamage a decent Empaths healing rate

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I don't know any Empaths who can heal over the work of multiple scrappers, though - why keep ignoring the basic facts of the hypothetical situation?

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, and throw debuffs and holds into the mix and your six CM'd Scrappers aren't going to be very impressive at all.

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I guess I just have a higher expectation of the scrappers I team with, then. Even my 'gimpy' Claws/SR can output a serious amount of damage in a short space of time - odd to say it, but especially after ED - I'm under no illusion that DM, BS, and Spines can do anything other than vastly outdamage that. Debuffs can be worked around, and if holds - or any mez - can't take effect, what are you so afraid of?

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Plus a fair few of the Controllers will have pets, so your outnumbered.

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Pets aren't the most reliable tools in a 'troller's box - and when the Controller goes down, so do they.

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Six Scrappers and two Empaths could be facing eight Empaths and twenty four pseudo Scrappers.

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Seeing as /Empathy is the least "scary" PvP set for a Controller to have, I'd take those odds.

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Certainly does as far as I've tested, we've been getting the 20k awarded and then immediately revoked.

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That's just a system message bug - the 20k stays in the SG.

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It's not that bad. Me and Doulos had a hell of a time on a building ledge. He set up the trip mines and tp'ed unsuspecting PvPers into the 'devices zone of doom.' I was there to hover above invisibly and deal with the angry return of the people he blew up and toggle drop tanks. Oh, and ask Disco King how ineffective deivces are in PvP

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AR/Dev fares better in the new PvP areas than it does inside the arena, that much is true - the guerilla nature of the zones in terms of layout means that there's plenty of opportunity for telemining - if not in complete safety, at least with a decent chance of not being spotted. With Syn's rebuild, he's perfectly suited for such (admittedly cheap) tactics - as well as having a few tricks up his sleeve, naturally, S4 was a useful learning experience.

Sadly, it's also the perfect ganking tool - with a little work. On the plus side, it's not an instant-win button, I know a few ways that exist to escape being obliterated - and if it does fail, then you end up in a potential world of trouble.

Since the advent of the new zones, I'm a lot more upbeat about AR/Dev's PvPbility - although there remain issues with AR, but they've been lessened with ED.

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Six to eight Controllers will simply be unbeatable now

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I think 6-8 Controllers would be scared as hell of a team of 6 Forted and CM'd Scrappers, accompanied by 2 CM'd Empaths - not least because the Scrappers could summarily terminate each target one at a time.

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You'll be able to have a huge amount of fun standing still while they wail on you

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And what are your teammates doing whilst you're being pummelled? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that full teams are always going to have the advantage over teams of <8 members, oddly enough. If you go into Warburg on your own... good luck to you.

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And to make these matters worse, I can no longer choose not to face the sets that turn my game into a titanic battle of popping inspirations. If I step into Warburg, I have no clue as to what I'll face. I can't refuse to fight that team of eight controllers who I have no chance of defeating, and no chance of succsess simply isnt fun.

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Cypher: A little advice... you run, run your [censored] off.

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So your ideal of fast paced PvP isnt going to happen

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It's far too early to tell right now - it's going to take at least a few months, and then some, before we get an accurate reflection of the pace of PvP in CoH/CoV. The potential is there - I can easily envisage a running battle between two groups being interrupted by fire on both teams from one alleyway by another, with yet another group charging in from above...

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Maybe you would like to try making sense?

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So a change that doesnt affect Defenders is making life harder for defenders, and a downward balance of just one AT (Might be two, still not sure if tanks are affected) will now level the playing field?

I'd love to make sense, but your not setting a very good example for me.

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Okay, I'll slow down for you: I'm referring to the entirity of the I6 changes, this included.

My point is: Defenders in the majority, who never stood a chance against a Scrapper pre-I6 now have an increased chance of survival/victory (with the ED impact and mez reduction); the minority of tweaked Defender builds who could defeat Scrappers with ease pre-I6 now have a harder time of it (because they didn't necessarily rely on toggle-dropping, but on heavy single-SO slotting now penalised under ED).

It remains to be seen whether Controllers are now overpowered in PvP - but they're not the only ones with mezzes, or the ability to stack them. Even a couple of Scrappers could make use of the changes with the right slotting, conceivably. My only concern is that PvP areas are going to enterable only with a tray full of BreakFrees/Emerges/Escapes, which wouldn't be much fun at all - but if there is sufficient usage of the zones, that shouldn't be the result. After all, a team of 8 Controllers might be scary, but would a team of 6 Scrappers/Blappers and 2 Empaths be any less so?

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However, it did at least merit a release note. It's a big change for Scrappers and arguably a bigger change for Tanks than either the I5 defence reductions or ED, since one succesful Mez drops all defensive toggles.

I'm afraid patience with excuses about how busy everyone is has worn rather thin by this point.

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I know, and that's a separate issue. I may be mellowing in my old age, but I've come to the conclusion that Cryptic are really [censored] useless when it comes to release notes; the alternative being that they're immeasurably cold and calculating, but I'm not big on pointless conspiracy theories, so.

As I've said elsewhere (somewhere on GD I think), I can't speak for the changes with regard to Tanks - I don't have any Tank alts. As far as Scrappers go, though, I do think the change has been a long time in coming.

Regardless, there's little to no point in getting angry or defensive about it - not you, Tundra, but there's a lot of pointless steam blowing.

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If you think that Defenders werent any more than garnish for Scrappers, youve been playing a different game for quite a while. A Defender will allow you to do your job, dealing damage, a lot more effectively and will keep you alive on top.

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That may as be, but I know that for large sections of the game Scrappers were so competent that Defenders weren't necessary - except as a Speed Boost-bot, perhaps. Even as an SR scrapper, I could hold my own with or without Defender assistance, against +3s/4s; I still teamed with defenders, that said, but there wasn't any pressing need to. Now there might be a case for it in l;arger teams.

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As to levelling the playing field in PvP...there you go with that different game again. If Holds were basically the instawin button once you got them stacked, how the heck will lowering the mez resists of Scrappers make it anymore balanced? A Controller (and certain Defenders) can now stack those holds on you incredibly easily, and if theres two of them facing you, you might as well give up. Controllers are now overpowered in PvP, which means that people are going to complain, which means they're going to get "adjusted". Woo hoo.

If you make a set worse against an AT that was already better than it in a variety of situations, how can that be levelling the playing field? Were smoothing out the bumps here by digging a ditch.

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If you don't understand the concept of making downward adjustments in order to enforce balance, then I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it. If it turns out that controllers are overpowered because of the changes, I don't doubt we'll see a drop in hold duration of mezzes.

It's all moving towards a faster-paced, less predictable PvP and PvE experience - I'm interested in seeing where they go with it, personally.

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FWIW, certain Defender builds could take down Scrappers anyway, even before ED. Those builds will find it immeasurably more difficult to do so after these changes, in all likelihood.


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If a Defender could take down a Scrapper before, how the heck does the lowering of mez resistances make the job any harder??? If you want to be the voice of reason, say things that make sense.

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Reread what you just said - what does mez resistance (high or low) have to do with the majority of Defender builds? Rad/*s depended on heavy single slotting of certain SO types in order to neuter their targets - by these changes, I'm referring to all the I6 changes.

Maybe you would like to try making sense?

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in PvE it means soloing a mission in the 40+ range is a pain in the [censored] now.

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Soloing missions has always been laughably easy in the 40+ range, even on Invincible. If, for some bizarre reason this is now a problem, use the mission difficulty slider?

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held by 1 attempt in PvE thru toggles, pointless.

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I'm not going to say you're lying, but I find that extremely difficult to believe, given the synopsis given by Castle on the CoHUS forums.

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Yes you can play without status protection, but with so many toggles designed to aid in this, why should the whole game comminity suffer another neft because of *oh i cant own a scrapper in PvP with my defender*

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The idea of reducing res magnitude is perfectly in fitting with the way the game has been heading - higher risk, more co-dependence. Of all the nerfs, this one seems least influenced by PvP (even if it is, in part), and more influenced by making the PvE game less predictable and more engaging.

FWIW, certain Defender builds could take down Scrappers anyway, even before ED. Those builds will find it immeasurably more difficult to do so after these changes, in all likelihood.

Have your own opinion on the matter by all means - but if you can't verbalise your thoughts into anything more coherent than "ZOMG PVP IS THE NERF MI TOONS WTFSUX STATES=PLANKZ LOL ", then that's the level of debate you're going to bind yourself to. That's not targeted at you specifically, but at the general mindset that seems prevalent at the moment... there's a lot to talk about, but all this sensationalist dramabombing and oversimplification only serves to drown out the real points of discussion. Far be it for me to be the voice of reason, though.

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And there lies the problem. PvE suffers because of a PvP change. AGAIN.

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Why do you see that as a problem? Why shouldn't issues highlighted in one part of any given system lead to change across all parts of that system? Enlighten me, if you would.

I don't know if you guys knew this, but I heard a rumour that you can play the game to 50 without status protection. Scary thought, ain't it?

The change doesn't surprise me in the least - and dare I say it, it's been a long time in coming. I'm not being facetious, btw - I played Kuroshi to 44 without have PB perma'd, it's always had some downtime (single-slotted, with Quickness and no Hasten). During that downtime, there was the possibility of being mezzed... but it didn't really happen, even in the endgame
- you just have to be slightly more careful. I've had PB broken before, that said, when I was herding Malta... and I got debt. But... it's just debt, and it goes away.

The change probably hits SR least hard than most, I appreciate, but I have a /Regen and a couple of /DAs too - and it doesn't bother me as far as they're concerned, either. This change finally makes Defenders useful alongside Scrappers, instead of just acting as garnish. It also levels the playing field in a number of areas as concerns PvP.

You can return to your regularly scheduled outrage now.

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Seriously Spad, Do you allways pick underpowered sets so you can moan about them? ;p

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I picked it for the challenge - unfortunately Cryptic don't think that it's a challenge (Same with Ice Armour, SR) and therefore nerf DEF sets equally or more that RES sets. Now I am very sure that my Brute is a challenge to play - and I've only played on the lowest difficulty so far. When I'm getting 2 shotted by a boss on Villainous difficulty, something is wrong.

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Oddly enough, I have a DM/EA Brute on Defiant too, partly for concept, partly for the challenge... not played him much, but so far so not-as-awful-as-I-was-expecting. In part, I attribute this to the overpowering nature of DM, and partly because I'm used to playing the "gimp king" of Scrappers in Claws/SR... but hey, I figure that at least the fx look pretty. I'll be teaming exclusively with an EM/DA Brute, so it'll be interesting to see how the two compare in later levels... anyone care to wager a bet on how large the disparity will be?

Welcome back, Doc.

All the best with Prop. #1 - as noted, it was always fun to poke around the TD site. But, should Prop. #2 need to be enabled, then we at Freaks Unleashed would certainly be able to find a home for you in our equally superior and egotistical petit collective. If you fancy a poke around, just send me, Filth, Brighteyes (Shadowplay) or Cybercel (Eir) a PM on the forums.

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Sunday is the first window for me

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Not a snowball's chance in hell, Cybercel and I still be away for the weekend and (if there's any justice) in no state to be put in charge of either a) a hero; or b) a computer.

Will be free on Tuesday and Wednesday evening, and then not until the week after from Monday.

It's possible it's just perceptual; you're expecting to miss more, and so you notice more readily when you do. It's also possible that there's been an (unlisted) change in the 'streak' code, by the same token.

Looks like it's a job for Herostats, indeed.