StormyDarkness

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That said, the only power I'll ask people to never use is Tornado. There's a right and wrong time for tornado. I'm not sure what the right times are, but it's always the wrong time for tornado.

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That's what a good Storm player comes in handy. They know when and how to use it effectively. Don't dismiss a power only because multiple people don't know how to properly use it or when to use it.

Technology devices put on arrows and also has places that make ice. Kinda a cooling suit type ideal. He's loads of fun, even though he's only level 24 and is apart of the "slowly leveling up club".

Exactly my thought...

I really, really want to make a Kinetics/Assault Rifle. Almost to the point with Going Rogue that I'm contemplating making one for Blue side of a Corruptor. However, first things first. I'm making a /Traps for Blue side.

Yes, but you don't have to wait *that* long. The jump from 35 to 41 isn't that big. 26 to 41 is *frowns*

However, my TA/Ice is technology origin, so I copped out.

For me, there's a *major* difference between someone yelling "SB please!" and "Hey, can I get a SB?" along with a major difference between "Eww! Ice Shields! Don't buff me!" and "Could you not ice armor me please?"

Then again, that phrase alone isn't enough. If someone is being a jerk before asking politely to not buffed, the politeness will not be there in my mind and I'll take it as a sarcastic way of asking to not have it. People being nice and polite the entire time will keep the impression of their words being as such. It's just the people that are snobs and the like that makes me vicious in my buffing them when they don't want it and not buffing it when they ask for it. Then again, that could just be me.

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I'm gonna throw my two cents in and say defender damage needs a buff. I'm currently trying to level a TA/archery and its PAINFUL. Some LT's take at least 20 arrows to defeat. I mean, seriously.

Matter of fact, I can't think of a single build I leveled that takes as long to kill mobs.

You just sit and watch as your attacks hit, over and over and over and over and over and you swear, "ok, he's down to just a sliver of health, this should be enough to kill him, " and nope, he is still alive, and you have to continue to plink away at his health.

Its like every single white con minion and LT has the hitpoints of an AV playing as a defender.

***I just logged in to see how many times I have to attack to kill a yellow LT troll and a white minion troll. It takes 16 attacks with my bow to kill the LT and 9 to kill AN EVEN CON MINION. Sure I'm lvl 11 without IO's yet, but that's ridiculous.

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TA takes a while to bloom. As soon as you get acid arrow and disruption arrow, you'll start to move quicker through enemies. You're just sitting with the problem every defender has, not enough attacks to kill things and not enough buff/debuffs to make it faster with the lower tier attacks.

Congrats on the baby! I hope you end up with years of joy as parents do!

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(seriously, how hard is it to get to about 12?)

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It can take me somewhere between an hour and three hours of dedicated play. Regardless of character if I'm teaming. Not teaming, much longer.

With all this TA talk, we're now getting off topic.

Anyhow in reference to the original post, I'd take either and would be happy with either on a team. I enjoy playing both and they both play differently. Shields and a AoE +def is only part of what each set offers.

My last post still stands. *shrugs*

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No point in arguing over this with someone that thinks that Sleet and Freezing Rain are different when they 100% identical in all aspects except their name.

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Defender- Storm Summoning (Given numbers)

Activation: 2.3 seconds
Recharge: 1 minute
Endurance Cost: 18.20
Accuracy: 2.0x
Range: 60 ft.

-70% Run Speed for 45 seconds
-50% Recharge for 45 seconds
-2.5 max run speed for 45 seconds
-60% fly speed for 45 seconds
-70% Jump strength for 45 seconds
-70% Jump speed for 45 seconds
-30% run speed for 30 seconds after 30 second delay
-30% strength to recharge for 30 seconds on target after 30 second delay
-30% strength of jump for 30 seconds after 30 second delay
76 ticks of .06 damage over 15 seconds
-35% resistance to all damage for 45 seconds
-30% defense for 30 seconds
5% chance of .5 mag KB for 15 sec.

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Defender- Storm Summoning (Given numbers @ level 1)

Activation: 2.3 seconds
Recharge: 1 minute
Endurance Cost: 18.20
Accuracy: 2.0x
Range: 60 ft.

-70% Run Speed for 45 seconds
-50% Recharge for 45 seconds
-2.5 max run speed for 45 seconds
-60% fly speed for 45 seconds
-70% Jump strength for 45 seconds
-70% Jump speed for 45 seconds
-30% run speed for 30 seconds after 30 second delay
-30% strength of jump for 30 seconds after 30 second delay
76 ticks of .06 damage over 15 seconds
-35% resistance to all damage for 45 seconds
-30% defense for 30 seconds
5% chance of .5 mag KB for 15 sec.

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Defender- Cold Domination (Given numbers @ level 1)

Activation: 2.3 seconds
Recharge: 1 minute
Endurance Cost: 18.20
Accuracy: 2.0x
Range: 60 ft.

-50% Run Speed for 45 seconds
-40% Recharge for 45 seconds
-2.5 max run speed for 45 seconds
-40% fly speed for 45 seconds
-50% Jump strength for 45 seconds
-50% Jump speed for 45 seconds
-20% run speed for 30 seconds after 30 second delay
-20% strength of recharge for 30 seconds on target after 30 second delay
-20% jump speed for 30 seconds on target after 30 second delay
-20% strength of jump for 30 seconds after 30 second delay
76 ticks of .06 damage over 15 seconds
-30% resistance to all damage for 45 seconds
-30% defense for 30 seconds
5% chance of .5 mag KB for 15 sec.

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Numbers are you own worst enemy, huh?

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If you're playing any game, imo, and only going for the numbers, you're doing something wrong. Play the game for fun, that's what it's there for and play the power sets you enjoy.

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Sorry but the numbers matter a lot. There are reasons why you almost never saw Ice Armor tanks until its mechanics were fixed, same goes for Trick Arrow and Dark Miasma.

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I find it funny that you lack to quote this from my same post.

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If the question is which on is straight up better, they've been balanced. If one doesn't believe they are so, take it up with the devs.

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Just because your tastes and thought process is different from people who like or enjoy what powers Force Fields have to offer, doesn't mean it's not balanced. If Cold Domination is just that much more powerful than Force Fields, you should be a person behind the cause of buffing Force Fields.

Regardless of numbers, I enjoy playing both my Cold Dominator and Force Field characters. Have I ever felt nerfed for playing one over the other? No. The numbers might mean a lot to you, but there's a group out there that does. There's also a group that only cares about numbers and trying to squeeze every tiny drop out of everything, even if it's only a bit of numbers. I pay attention to numbers only to figure out exactly what the power does, not comparing it to others of other sets. The last time I thought about doing that, I was very disappointed with Sleet, even though I still didn't look at the numbers.

Anything that is obvious in the lack of effectiveness should be taken up with devs. If you believe Cold Domination is really *that* much more powerful, outside of play styles, then get the devs involved. I'm not exactly happy with the PFF turning off when you click a glowie, that's about it for mechanically speaking what I dislike about FFs. I'd still say it's comparable to all the other power sets and don't particularly want a change.

If you have problems with the powers themselves, then the power isn't for you. Every power has its use, but it's not always the most useful for every situation. Its up to the player to decide how much they want to use it and how. Repulsion Field plus Force Bubble will be able to help score away enemies in pvp, especially stalkers. Detention field can hold enemies in pvp that would otherwise 2-3 shot you or bosses that easily mez you. Just because you believe a power is useless and the numbers seem like it, doesn't mean it actually is.

As I said, they are balanced. The only thing that changes is play style and the like. I don't believe the numbers speak to being one powerset better than the other. Rather, I believe it to be speaking to that powers of different power sets are different. Sleet isn't Freezing Rain, Heal Other isn't Cauterize, and the shields buff differently. I see no reason to poke the devs that Force Fields is being outshined by Cold Domination or the like. You're welcome to believe differently than me, but when the question of Cold or FF, they are equal but different. I don't want the lines between all the power sets to blur. Not every power set need a heal, every power set doesn't need a target area AoE -res, and not every set need a shield. Equal but different.

I'm game for RP, regardless of what character I'm on. That being said, I'm in a current RP light SG that's full of mostly me and another person's alts. We'd gladly take more and would enjoy people in to either start RPing or the like. Other than that, I'm kinda stuck on the RP front. Got a few RP friends, but nothing that's as constant and plot driven as would be in a SG. I have been starting to branch out by making characters specially to join RP SG. The down side is that they are only for a very small populace (though not all necessarily want to stay that way) and thus I can't get on them and instantly start RPing with one or two other people.

Probably 8:30 EST, however, I'm off Thursday, so I'm game.

Another note, I'm working overnight on Saturday, which means technically up to 10pm EST, I'm game. Dunno about post Saturday though. I'll know Friday what days I'm off etc. so we can go from there.

It'll also be great to get some of this new blood in there. It felt when Summer joined with us that things started to take a turn that I really enjoyed. Maybe hypo and grim can further this. I've RP'd slightly with both and it should be great!

If other people are passing on buffs, can I get double the buffs, or better yet if I'm casting them, can I get them?

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...but, then again, I try my damnedest not get invite Empaths at all when I can.

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Not all empaths are bad and not all of them just sit and heal. On a decent team that TAs shine, I'm only buffing and attacking.

Anyhow, I tend to say "Great work with the Arrows," but then again, I only tend to notice when me and the TA start to have synergy together. Nothing like two defenders working together for on goal, make everyone gods.

From a Storm person to a TA person, we all need to get together and have some anti-Kinetics/Empathy/Radiation Emission party. Invite all your Sonic, FF, Cold, Dark, and other Storm/TA buddies. It'd be great! We'd get through it and wonder why Kinetics, Empathy, or Radiation Emission is even needed!

As I said, it's to each person's taste what they like and what they dislike. In my opinion, the only difference between the two is Cold focuses on debuffing while FF offers crowd control. That's about it. It's up to play style and what the person wants out of the set to be able to say which they want. That said, all powersets in my opinion are this way. I personally love Storm, but enjoy several of the different power sets of both primary and secondary. I've even played multiple of power sets combined with different secondaries. Storm/Dark plays different from Storm/Sonic which plays differently from my Fire/Storm Corruptor, and so on. It allows me to play the same general feel, with very different ways of going about things.

That's the good point of City of Heroes, there's not really a set that is better than the other. They play differently from each other. Sure, Thermal and Empathy and Pain Domination look very similar to each other at face value, but they are quite different. Force Fields is different from Cold, which is different from Sonic. Sure, there's similarities, but they each play differently, and when paired with various secondaries, continue to alter what they are good at.

A Cold Dom/Psi Blast Defender is going to shoot for capitalizing on the -recharge, which a Cold Dom/Dark Defender is capitalizing on the opponent's chance to miss by upping the team's defense and lowering the enemy's accuracy. A FF/Dark has the same ideology of what to capitalize on, however, they will move into controlling the battlefield versus debuffing the enemies. It's all different play styles and everyone is not only jaded by their preferences, but also by the power set combination they make. A FF/Archery Defender is going to have a drastic different ideology from a FF/Sonic and so forth.

If the question is which on is straight up better, they've been balanced. If one doesn't believe they are so, take it up with the devs. Some will shine greater solo or small teams while others will be greater for eight man invincible. Personal play style and play capabilities go a long way. I've got my Emp/Psi defender, who's been complimented several times over various things, but always when compared to my Storm/Dark, everyone who's seen both believes I do better with my Storm/Dark. I enjoy playing him more than my Empath, but that's my personal tastes. If I want to buff and heal with some crowd control to help myself out, I go with my Empath. If I want to debuff and cause organized chaos, I chose my Storm/Dark.

People's views are also jaded by others who've seen others play the set. However, since this is a defender forum, my guess is pretty much everyone here is a defender player. Sure, some people are just naturally bad or dislike a power set and thus don't shine with it in comparison to the rest. Each one offers their own pros and cons, it's up to the individual to chose which they believe is better, not arguing over technicalities of the power sets to see which one may or may not be a bit better mechanically.

If you're playing any game, imo, and only going for the numbers, you're doing something wrong. Play the game for fun, that's what it's there for and play the power sets you enjoy.

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... it's for a friend. Really. Thanks in advance for all your info.

1. Can you have two Tornadoes out at once these days? How about two Lightning Storms?

2. If you have a single tough target, will Tornado and Lightning Storm attack it all the time? If not, do they do the "Voltaic Sentinel" trick and just annoy the heck out of individual badguys?

2a. Tornado looks like a lot of damage over time, in theory. Does it work out that way?

3. It seems like you could theoretically slowcap enemies and use Oppressive Gloom [and possibly Thunderclap?] and all the other Dark PBAOE stuff on them. Is this idea anything but a waste of time? I find 40% damage per badguy for 30 seconds enticing, if true.

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Since this is the 3rd time for me to type this, even quicker responses.

1. Tornado, dunno. LS sure does.

2. Tornado has a range which it returns to you, so it'll change targets if it KBs a target too far. LS has a small AoE but attacks the closest enemy. Tip: Fly above to KB into the ground.

2a. Yes, anything with -KB like AVs, EBs, or GMs get all the damage and debuff. Anything that gives -KB like Earth Cages or Electric Fence (elec mastery) will allow you to do this to anything you use both it and Tornado picks up as its target.

3. Not a bad idea. Freezing Rain also does -def and -res, making the stuns easier to hit and will make your hits more powerful. Add that to your +dmg and it's not a laughing matter. I chose to go for Power mastery on mine so I can give more -res to the entire team on AVs and the like. It's something to definitely think of what you want to do with it.

I've recently experienced on my FF/Archery Defender of in a mission, force bubble the entire mob into a corner within 3 seconds of starting the mob, then AoE them to death, killing all of them within 5 or so more seconds past that. It was highly amusing, and if you know what you're doing with KB, you can get great success like that a lot.

My Cold/Energy defender on the other hand, gets to debuff the crap out of the Family bosses he was going against also a few days ago. Made the entire spawns weak via Sleet and then focused my ST debuffs on the Family Bosses. Worked fairly well. However, it was a safeguard mission, so we were like normal and not all taking on the same group at the same time together. Otherwise we'd be much more successful like my FF.

It's a play style difference. If you want to be more focused on KB and the creative things you can do with that, do Force Fields. If you want more debuffs, especially ST debuffs (which I'm not really a fan of), then Cold Domination is the way to go.

The only two things between FF and Cold that is plausibly the same is the shields. One gives higher defense buff values while the other gives resistances and defense buff. One has crowd control (Stuns, KB) while the other has debuffs (slows, -regen, -recovery, -dmg, etc.). It's really up to your play style and in my opinion, neither person is wrong for saying they like FF or Cold better than the other. Both offer awesome powers that are powerful in their own right.

I wish my other characters besides my Storm/Dark had it. I tend to be an aggressive Defender and thus get attacked decently enough. As such, since O2 doesn't heal myself, it's nice to have a way to heal myself.

I work Wednesday, open Thursday.

I get off of work at 11 EST, much later than we normally go, plus that's not including travel time. I'll *probably* get on later that night, but I don't know when. I usually watch a bit of television to relax before jumping on the computer after work.

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What's wrong with wanting to be able to solo a defender?

The tweak to Vigilence does not need to be damage. But Vigilence is a poor inherent power.

It does nothing solo.

It does nothing if you are doing a good job on a team.

It makes it very hard to plan endurance management since sometimes you have more endurance than you'd possibly need then other times you don't have nearly enough.

Defenders need a tweak, but I'll be the first to admit that it doesn't need to be a damage tweak.

Have Vigilence help when your solo.

Have Vigilence do something if your team is healthy.

Have it help since after Going Rogue everyone will probably just make Corrupters.

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Let me take a stab at this.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be able to solo as a defender. That being said, you must know what you're doing with your power sets in order to be able to effectively solo as them. Also, you need to do things tactically. If you're expecting to do as my usually solo Fire/Shield scrapper, jump into the group, kill the mob before they can kill him tactic as a defender, you're most likely doing it wrong. Uses of corners, pulling, and the effects of your powers makes all the difference to if you are solo-able. Will it be slow? Probably.

I honestly don't mind Vigilence. Sure, it doesn't help solo play or help you on a good team. And? I'm not a particular fan of any inherit power hero side except critical strike from scrappers. If we change Vigilence to do something solo, then the Khed's inherit needs to change so it does something solo as well. If you're team is doing good, then the inherit shouldn't matter since all the characters are working well together and are self sufficient with what they have and what you offer to them. Being self sufficient is a thing that I believe everyone should be, that way when you get on a team you aren't covering for someone else's hole they didn't cover via their own build.

As such, if you aren't having endurance problems (though blue bars do go down most of the time), then you're being self sufficient and then the extra discount just helps you keep your blue bar full. If you're having endurance issues post Stamina, then you need endurance redux. If you're having issues with endurance any time in your career, think of not clicking every power plausible and save some endurance for the powers that count (specially if they are decent recharge powers). I've sat there several times with a very low blue bar on my Corruptors and refused to do anything until key powers were ready. Some to keep my toggle Leadership powers up, other times so I'd have enough endurance for Freezing Rain or Transfusion.

As far as tweaking defenders, I'm happy with where they are at. I do mostly team with them, but that's because I don't like the slow pace of soloing with them. Sure, I can solo with my defenders, but it's slow and I have to be tactical and smart about what I do. Any time I don't, you're right, I meet the sidewalk every time. Unlike scrappers, stalkers, blasters, or even corruptors, Defenders don't have the damage to make up for a player error. Unlike Controllers or Dominators, Defenders don't have as much control (hard or soft) to make up for player error (though this is your best place to pull stuff out of). Unlike Tankers, Brutes, and Masterminds, they don't have as much HP and shields to make up for player mistakes. It takes knowing not only your powers, but how to use them. This doesn't mean that their inherit should change. That's like telling a petless mastermind's inherit should change or a Khed's inherit should effect them solo.

As far as Going Rogue is concerned, the only reason I'd bring over a corruptor is for the following two reasons: Traps and Assault Rifle. Other than that, I'm all for the dark defenders. Expect at least me to be doing Dominators hero side and Defender villain side. Those are my two classes that just make me smile the most, always have and always will.

Edited for format only, nothing changed. Didn't notice my post was all in a quote. Also, I'm referring to "dark defenders" as Villain Defenders, not the Dark Miasma or Dark Blast power sets.

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I would bubble them anyways just in spite.

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I do this on both sides, unless actually given a good reason (lag oe the like, not costumes). I always accept buffs and when people ask if they want X buff, I tell them that there's yet to be a buff that I didn't like, which still holds true. On the flip side of this, anyone asking for a buff gets forgotten a few times going through the list.

In short, ask not to be buffed (which is rare), you generally won't be unless you're screaming at me about it. Ask to be buffed, and I'll hit you in 2 rounds of it then start picking you back up, but I've been known to be nice about it if you are as well (Like accidentally forgetting about it). Also, I'll gladly take every buff you'll give me, but I'm not going to ask for it since I also believe heavily in the treat others as you wish to be treated.

As far as my Thermal shields go, anyone complaining about it for RP reasons can jump off a bridge. He's an escaped hologram from the AE building, which means they are quasi-real fires at best.

When the Assassin's Strike goes off, who does it?

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Who is the guy that gave it to you?

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Exactly.