Steel_Shaman
-
Posts
722 -
Joined
-
Quote:The problem is many members of the PvP community have that malice aimed squarely at PvE'ers. I have literally never PvP'd in this game, nor have I ever given any feedback regarding PvP. The Dev's would have to make purples drop every 30 seconds for me to even think about setting foot in a PvP zone. And then I still might not.Originally Posted by LuxunS
Admittedly PvP was not perfect prior to I13. PvP was very close to the PvE game. Now it is a completely different game. Powers don't work the same, and complete understanding of the system requires knowledge of calculus. If the developers changed the part of the game that you most enjoyed, then promised you that they would continue to work on it and refine it; how would you feel? After nearly 2 years would you be malicious?
I'm not alone in that either. Many of us just aren't interested in PvP at all. It's not a case of hating PvP or those who like it. It's a case of simply not being interested. Yet we are often targeted by the malice you mention. Wrong target. Your ire should be at the Devs, not the players. ("You" in the general sense, of course.) -
Quote:Pretty much my thoughts on the matter.Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
They day they introduce DR to general PvE players is the day I give someone all my stuff and leave the game for good. Not doom crying, and I seriously doubt it would happen, but if there's one thing that would make me rage-quit, it would be that.
Stacking buffs/debuffs, and getting the most out of every scenario is what makes combat fun for me in this game. Take that away, and there's really nothing left to keep me interested.
Since CoH has competition on the way, would the Devs really want to take the risk of a game-wide nerf likely to cause every bit as much rage as ED and GDN? I would hope not.
I don't really think DR for PvE is coming. But then the human race has consistently amazed me with our ability to make really dumb decisions, so who knows? -
Quote:DR in PvE would mean a cancelled sub from me. And it would be a looooong time before I came back, if at all. This game is too old for those kinds of sweeping changes. I like CoH just the way it is, and don't feel the need to respec/rebuild/adjust to massive gamewide nerfs. I'd rather just move on and learn a new game if that happened.Originally Posted by EvilGeko
There would be winners and losers in a Diminishing Returns scheme, but the game would be much better off for it. Much more so than it was after ED, in my opinion.
Edited to be less angry and inflammatory. I really shouldn't post when I'm having a bad day at work.
-
Quote:Actually I had a blast between those issues. Just goes to show no matter what the Devs do they can't make everyone happy. I'm not ready to cry Doom because of inherent Fitness though. After all we have different folks in charge these days and they seem (to me) to be more concerned with fun factor than a grandiose "vision" of how the game should be played.Originally Posted by Shubbie
I remember Tankers just about died back then so did blasters, everyone was a scrapper/cont/defender
Who wants a tank that couldnt survive an 8 person spawn (they couldnt), or a blaster who did poor damage (they did)
They said very specifically that ED was put in because they couldnt add anything else to the game with the numbers this high and they had something in the works they wanted to do.
At the time it was skills, which later evolved into Io's
and yes the game SUCKED hard between i7 and i9. -
Quote:Amen to that. I'll never forget his "Vision" post and all the flames that monstrosity caused.Originally Posted by Hejtmane
The biggest issue with ED and global reduction was Jack's handling of the issues and his disingenuous approach on the subject.In fact I think Jack's PR side hurt the COV launch the numbers where no where near what the hype that was coming out around initially and it had to do with ED. The word of month PR hurt the game and his bad bedside manner and pandering oh we want you to use more variety of enhancement but this is not a nerf was a terrible PR disaster.
Yes the nerfs where needed it was way out of whack and no we are not even close to the stupid stuff people did back then. -
Wow, thanks everyone for the replies. This thread has definitely been an interesting read. I made up my blaster this evening but due to my work schedule today didn't get a chance to do much with him. We'll see how it goes.
-
Quote:Not that odd, really. I think a lot of us that have been around that long realize that without the changes in Issues 5 and 6 the game wouldn't have lasted. As you said, the game back then was terribly imbalanced.Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
I was playing through that time as well. The Global Defense Adjustment and Enhancement Diversification were both badly needed for the game to be anywhere near balanced. A single hero, no matter what AT they are, should not be able to aggro an entire map at once and survive.
Then again, I'm that odd-ball freak blah blah blah.
-
Quote:What?!Originally Posted by Shubbie
ED... ED!!!
This is exactly what was done with ED.
They cut everything with the intention of balancing around Io's later... those issues between ED and Io... were some of the worst, darkest, most boring gameplay this game has ever seen.
I played for like 2 months in that year and half or so, the game was so terrible.
We dont need that again.
Excuse me, but I was playing around that time too, and I don't think we're talking about the same game at all. Or are you one of the people that actually thought it was perfectly fine for a Tanker to round up literally entire maps and aoe them all down with Burn with absolutely no team support at all?
Also, to my knowledge the Devs have never stated that IO's were the reason behind the GDN or ED. I do recall them stating they felt the game was out of whack and needed adjusting at the time though. -
Quote:Thanks for the advice. I may have to create the character when I get home tonight and give it a whirl.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
If you like dominators, you will probably like blasters, they play similarly. I would encourage you not to skip your AoEs, Energy Torrent + Explosive Blast are a great combination.
-
OK so I read the first two replies then read DarknessEternal's, and now I think I have whiplash. Ouch, my neck!
EvilGeko, StratoNexus, I get what you're saying. My first 50 was a Dom so being squishy and relying on control powers to stay alive is not a new concept to me. I just was curious how the damage scaled, which I think you've answered for me. Thanks for the replies.
DarknessEternal, I think you're just pulling my leg. Especially the part about Blasters being the worst AT in the game.... -
I've recently been thinking about trying out a Blaster as this is the only AT I have never played much. However, I keep seeing people talk about Blasters as having severe issues soloing beginning around level 30. Apparently this is due to mob hit point scaling and blaster damage just not keeping pace.
Is this really the case? Does the Blaster AT literally become mediocre damage and low survivability? That just....doesn't make sense. And if that really does happen, maybe someone needs to smack Castle in the back of the head until he fixes it.
So how about it folks? Are people over-exaggerating the situation?
(In case it matters, I would prefer to play an Energy blaster for concept purposes.) -
Quote:I would be very unhappy if the Devs started balancing the entire game around the Incarnate system. I've played "end game" MMO's before where this was done and it absolutely sucks. In that type of scenario certain builds/classes don't actually work correctly until you are at the cap or very near the cap. Given that CoH has always been about the journey, not the destination, such shenanigans in this game would be guaranteed to chase me away almost instantly.Originally Posted by spice_weasel
^this. i can see a case being made to reduce health and stamina to levels closer to 50% of current with the switch, and potential influence from incarnate offerings later on.
But I suppose that isn't really relevant to this particular conversation. I just don't like the idea of an "end game" in CoH at all, but we'll see how it goes. -
Quote:My honest, true feeling is that you are overreacting. I truly believe it isn't going to be as bad as you think. Time will tell which one of us is right.Originally Posted by Streeja
I thought the change was a great idea at first. After a more thorough review, I now have to say I think this change is bad, very bad. Yes, you get more choices, but sometimes too many choices is bad. I am affraid we will now see everyone with leadership and fighting pools and possibly other select pools that just could not be squeazed into the build before. That forced a more concentrated effort to really decide what you wanted a toon to focus on. If you have everyting, then the focus is lost to some degree.
I hate to mention other games in the forum (specially if it is not a direct relationship), but Champions had a very bad problem because of too many choices. Toons became so independant that people were reluctant to team up with pugs. And cetain combantions of powers were far more tougher than others by far. I know that will not happen to that degree here, but it was an unforeseen outcome. What will we do with the unforeseen outcome here?... Start nerfing to re-balance? Just something to think about.
Also, if the benefit is just for lowbies, how long to you stay below level 20 anyways? A day, couple days, or even hours?
And the benefit isn't just for lowbies. There are a couple powers I would love to have taken on my 50 Plant/Fire Dom (even if it meant just having the power with the base slot) that now I'll get to take.
As for people building characters that are so solo capable they don't need teams.......this is already going on right now. Also, I think you need to give the players of this game some credit. Many people play CoH for its social aspects. They will still continue to team up because that's how they enjoy the game. -
Quote:Stamina at level 2 is not going to suddenly give low level characters infinite Endurance. Even if someone were to put 2 slots in it at 3, it would still just have TO's. It's SO's that make Stamina a strong power, same as with anything else. What it will do, however, is help.Originally Posted by HacknSlash
Where "a lot" = "at all", unlike L50, eh?
I routinely use my SG base's empowerment station on my lowbies. One of the buffs I like to get is the End Recovery one. If I remember right that buff is 0.17 end/sec and unslotted Stamina is 0.25 so the two aren't that much different. And guess what? Characters running the empowerment station buff still run dry if I don't pace myself.
Implying that Fitness at low levels will completely remove lowbies' need to ever rest is silly. Yes they will. Just not as much as they do now. -
A friend and I were leveling two MM's together a while back. Robot/Storm (me) and Robot/Pain. We made Scrapyard run from us. That's right, a Giant Monster. He ran all over the place only a few seconds after we engaged. We eventually gave up. We didn't have the damage output at level 30 (that's right, 30) to kill him, and he didn't seem to want to stand still and let us try anyway.
I agree with Leandro, there is something seriously wrong with the run away code. -
Tex, my opinion is the majority of the claims about the game being too easy come from people playing tricked out builds. The Devs have said repeatedly that they will not balance the game's content around IO's. So if every character you ever play was to have a totally min/maxed IO'd to the gills build the content would naturally seem easy.
And there I think is the problem. The hard core min/maxers for whatever reason simply don't understand the game cannot and will not be balanced around their style of play. To do so would introduce an exclusionary system similar to the "gear grinds" found in other MMO's. The very absence of that system is part of what has always defined CoH. -
For someone just learning how to play Tankers, I would recommend Ice Armor. At 26 you get an End refill power up every 30 seconds or so (with slotting), two aggro generating auras, and excellent mitigation via slows. Is it the end-all be-all tank? Nope, but it sure makes the learning curve easier.
-
Quote:Actually the penalty currently is you have to build the character specifically to be able to do that, which limits your options in terms of other build choices you could make. In other words, you have to take Stamina, slot for end reduction, possibly throw in some procs on the really end-hungry characters....Originally Posted by HacknSlash
To me, it's no different than ammo management in your typical FPS, or spell/mana points in your typical RPG.
Sure, it's fun unloading rockets into grunts... but you might want to save some for the boss. Oops, you ran out? <Load last save>
IMO, there should be some penalty for going all-out all the time, and there currently isn't.
The fact that so many people build their characters to be able to go non-stop speaks volumes for what people think of running dry on endurance. They hate it, and will do whatever they can to build around having to worry about it.
Yes, having Fitness as an inherent will give more flexibility. But people will still have to devote slots and possibly IO's to get that coveted "endless endurance." There's your penalty right there. -
My first 50 was a plant/fire Dom. The combo is extremely effective and fun. I respecced him to the Fire Mastery ancillary pool to try it out and....oh my. My friends call him "The OP Dom," and "The Ridiculous" if that gives you any idea of what Plant/Fire can do.
I also have and thoroughly enjoy (all are somewhere between 25 and 50):
Mind/Fire (extremely safe soloing and very nice damage)
Ice/Ice (a little end heavy, not that great at AoE control, but fun)
Grav/Energy (I wouldn't suggest it for someone new to doms, can be tricky)
Mind/Earth (very fun and extremely good at soloing)
Earth/Earth (a slow starter at low levels, but once it gets rolling it's crazy)
Mind/Psi (very good combo)
Elec/Elec (good soloist and has some neat mechanics. domino-style KD is great)
I.....think that's all of them.
For someone new to Doms I would say Plant/Fire or Mind/anything to be honest. -
My Dark/Dark Tanker. I want to love him, really I do. I can see from looking at my planned build that one day he will be awesome. The problem is getting him to that point.
-
Quote:Don't let the responses in this thread get to you Oneirohero. This is a hot button topic right now and lots of people have very strong views on the subject. Those people also like to express themselves rather vocally.Originally Posted by Oneirohero
I'm sorry I compared Swift to Speed Boost hyperbole, I really am! *mashes [Beguile] while running away*
I'm sure whatever changes will come our way, I'll get used to it eventually. I wish people would actually respond to threads positively until they've given a reason to bring on the pain.
At least I didn't pull a GKaiser!
None of it is aimed at you personally.
-
Quote:What do I think? I find the base movement speed of characters in this game to be unbearably slow. I always work Swift in as early as possible so that I can stop grinding my teeth at how ridiculously slow my characters are moving (to me). If the Devs don't port over Swift and Hurdle, I will be very unhappy. So my view is pretty much the direct opposite of yours.Originally Posted by Oneirohero
What do you guys think?
Should we be able to choose whether our characters get the effects of Swift and Hurdle as inherents? Or should we just accept a full-port without changes?
As for me, I'd vote to have Swift and Hurdle to be part of base Run, Fly and Jump movement, where by slotting them you're improving your base movement and by not slotting them you're moving at normal speeds for someone at Lv1
You're making it sound like a character with Swift is practically bouncing off the walls, even going so far as to compare it to Speed Boost. Honestly it doesn't make you go THAT much faster, especially if you don't put an enhancement in it.
I agree with others that at this point people are just trying to find reasons to hate this change. -
Quote:I just wanted to address this one point.Originally Posted by GKaiser
The previous time I played, Inventor origins were around. Still, the design hasn't changed that much, they are just enhancements.
Invention Origin enhancement sets are not "just enhancements". The right combination of sets can drastically alter the playstyle of a character.
For example: a Dominator that has been made PermaDom through sets is far more powerful than a Dom who hasn't. Every single power recharges so fast he can belt out CC and attacks at a pace a non-perma Dom simply can't begin to match. Also all those sets give a myriad of "incidental" bonuses besides just the recharge rate: recovery, regen, to hit, bonus damage, bonus health.
If all you know of the Invention system is that it's "just enhancements" you didn't even begin to really look at what is possible there, which is a pretty huge oversight from a review standpoint. -
Quote:Balancing a game around frustration is not a good idea imho. It is, after all, a game and is supposed to be fun.Originally Posted by Wytchven
What would be great is that if Athleticism unlocks (as a slottoble) at like level 10, Health at like level 15, and then Stamina at level 20 - any staggering would work really and as long as Stamina wasn't anything beyond level 20 no one could really complain. I dont think that they should award all of these as inherents at level 1. Would it be nice? Sure, so would having our level 32 powers at level 1, so by staggering it creates some balance, and should make us have to work just a little bit. We should feel more powerful as we get higher in levels, not have everything handed to us right up front. The earlier levels should still be a little more frustrating and we still should have that same feel at level 20 that, yes, this is still a milestone level.
As for 20 being a milestone level:
1) You get a cape
2) You get another costume slot
3) MANY secondaries have very strong powers that unlock at 20. A good example: My new Dom I'm leveling just hit 22 and got Heavy Mallet, which he could have gotten at 20 if I hadn't taken Stamina. Heavy Mallet hits harder unslotted than my other attacks that have 2 damage enhancers slotted. That's a pretty huge benefit.
Giving us the Fitness pool at level 1 will not destroy the feeling of character progression. What it will destroy is the tedium of those early levels, which many people see as nothing more than a road-block to get past in order to start actually enjoying their new character.
Edited to add: The very fact that some people view 20 as being a milestone level just because that is when we could get Stamina is indicative of a severe problem with the game at the lower end. -
Quote:Remember, the Devs have said many times they will not balance the game around IO's. They want them to be optional. If you crave greater challenge, adjust the difficulty settings.Originally Posted by Seraphael
I'm glad to see this change. However, I hope the general difficulty of the game is tweaked correspondingly (at least blueside). With IOs, booster packs, temperary powers, veteran powers and now this, much of the content has been to a varying degree rendered trivial.