Starsman

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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Commander View Post
    So, if the rumor is true about the 5 year "lease" of CoH from Cryptic to NCsoft, that they didnt renew...

    Makes me think that something "might" have been up for a while, just under wraps by the heads of the game.

    Maybe they knew that Cryptic wouldn't renew and were asked to kill off States and Psyche in the Coh universe... to make them reborn in the CO universe? After all, if the rumor is true, then the rights and IP of Coh goes back to Cryptic and they can then incorporate it into CO lore.'

    Or I could have had too much to drink tonight...
    The rumor only accounts for the game engine. The IP is, from what I understand, now property of NCSoft.
  2. Quote:
    Originally Posted by MajorDecoy View Post
    Well, to be fair, we lost more than 5% defense in Invincibility if you had it slotted and saturated.

    That said, I remember those threads pretty well.
    That one took me almost a year to get through, and yea that sort of was the only way I managed to convince Castle to get the penalty off Unyielding, via a compromise that resulted in the strongest possible invuln weaker, not stronger.
  3. Starsman

    The "Why"

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    In that case, the amount would be negotiable in the contract because both sides do not know what the value of the content will be in five years. But in this case, I personally would not have signed the contract without a right to renew at a specified cost. The value of the original game engine cannot rise, separate from inflation.
    I seen worse things slip into contracts, but mainly indirect cost increases (we recently got @#$%! by RIM and forced to upgrade phones out of pocket effectively nearly tripling the year phone maintenance budget.)

    Not sure where things can sneak through here, but without access to the contract itself, it's hard to entirely dismiss this theory, especially since it's the only thing so far that seems to make any sense at all (unless the game suddenly took a horrible dive since last quarter's reports.)
  4. Starsman

    The "Why"

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    Even if there was a license term limit, I cannot imagine anyone being dumb enough to sign such a license without a perpetual right to renew: it would allow someone else to one day just pull the plug on you at any time. And the cost to renew would be ammortized according to generally accepted accounting principles, which means the cost to operate in 2013 would be no different than in 2012 even if such a license renewal was required.

    Unless NCSoft keeps all its cash in a coffee can and pays its license fees in quarters, that seems unlikely to be a material reason for a shutdown to me. But stranger things have happened.
    Such "perpetual right to renew" can "easily" be worked around by demanding more money than you know your licensee will ever be able to afford, though. We saw that recently happen to Direct TV with Viacom. The 5 year thing may be too big for what I have seen (personally, outside government contracts all government contracts I seen have a 5 year window) but the negotiation may just have gone too expensive this one time around.
  5. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr_Darkspeed View Post
    Just curious, but what do people think they suggested that actually made it into the game?
    War Mace revamp.

    Dominator Attack Set revamp (the snipe increase to 20s and 3.56 ds was not my idea but almost everything else was in my list.)

    Invulnerability losing it's Unyielding self -Def at the expense of minimally reducing the +def in Invincibility

    Taunt inflicting -Range as a way to manipulate critters in getting closer to you.

    Now will never see the light of day, but Bio's adaptation procs (heal on defense, end on efficiency, toxic damage on offensive.)

    Thats all I can think off the top of my head.

    I also stole Arcanavilles idea for endurance free Brawl, told the idea to Castle and credited Arcanaville for it, of course. He added it the same day, Arcanaville was shocked on the quick introduction of that into the patch notes.
  6. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Night-Hawk07 View Post
    I'm not well versed in business, so excuse the ignorance, but couldn't PWE/Cryptic buy back the IP? In that case, CoH wouldn't be in competition with CO as the money's all going to the same place, and PWE/Cryptic would have two SH games to SOE's one (and Marvel's rumored one).
    That can legally happen, but its unlikely. Would you do such a deal with some one that cheated you out of a business?

    As a player, would you not feel dirty if you started giving money to the company that did this to the current development team?

    As an employee, would you feel encouraged to work for a company that did this to you only to offer you another job at whatever compensation they saw now fit?
  7. Quote:
    Originally Posted by CactusBrawler View Post
    Aion cost them too much, but the Asian mentality in business prevents them from saying it was a bad idea, after they had bigged it up so much.

    So yeah Aion can't die.

    And since Asians hate the west, can you guess what would have to die instead?
    It does not mater how much Aion cost to do anymore. If it had losses, that went into another tax year books and got written off as such.

    Today Aion is making lots of money, very likely more than it spends or requires to be sustained. That's all that matters.
  8. Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon View Post
    If the lease on the engine was the issue, then why shut down the whole studio that's also working on a second different project?
    My guess is that Paragon Studios had to keep afloat on it's own devices and, like most companies, worked on a near-zero balance budget (not an accountant sorry for bad terminology) where you spend nearly all money you make. This would mean that CoH was financing that other project.

    If CoH is forced to stop earning any profits, then they have to fire everyone at by end of the accounting month.
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ashtur View Post
    Honestly, if you download and look at the NCSoft corporate info, it's pretty clear that CoH is a tiny, almost meaningless piece of the pie. The reduction in sales (worldwide) on Aion from Q1 to Q2 this year is 5x the entire revenue from CoH for the quarter. Yes, that's what I said. Not Aion's sales, just the margin of lower sales...

    For better or worse, Paragon Studios and CoH are rounding errors in NCSoft's math.

    I don't plan on giving them any more money to round off.
    That's not reason to kill the game so suddenly. If the game was in the negative, perhaps. But the game was, for all I understand, profitable. Not a huge money maker, but still profitable. Basically: it was in a position where should they want to switch strategies, you slowly move the team to other projects and slow down development.

    Killing the game the way they did just does not click unless some legal or accounting hurdle forced their hand.

    At first I thought it was accounting, now I'm starting to think it's indeed was negotiations going sour.
  10. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk View Post
    My money is on GW2.

    http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...=1#post4366209

    They want everyone going to their new toy.
    That does not make sense. It's not even the same demographic (heroes and fantasy)
  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thor's Assassin View Post
    Babs posted this in answer to this rumor:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tic-Toc View Post
    I don't believe this is accurate. As far as I know, NCSoft wholely owns the CoH IP. There was a license agreement for the engine in place, ie. Cryptic still owns the engine and licensed it to NCSoft/Paragon...but I wasn't aware of any 5 year term on that.

    I may be misinformed, but I only work here...I'll ask Jack about it next time I see him.
    Licensing agreements always have re-negotiating points. They may not be exactly 5 years, it can easily be once a year and still be a possibility. The switch to Freedom may as well be the reason for a change of hearts in the negotiation too, since now the game would be entirely in direct competition with free-to-play champions.
  12. Quote:
    Originally Posted by John_Printemps View Post
    If this were truly the reason, then there would've (sigh, I'm being way to optimistic on this) surely been more communication on the game having a five-year dead line instead of blindly pushing forward before unexpectedly giving the ax to 50 members of a talented development team and pissing on the cheerios of 250,000 customer accounts.

    I'd love to be wrong and for there to be an announcement in two months that says "By the way, our secret project was a renovated engine for City of Supers, Surprise!"
    As I mentioned, if true, the licensing deals can go south at the last minute easily, especially if the owning party had no actual interest in enabling the competition to exist.

    Also, it's not about the IP, I think they actually purchased the IP. NCSoft can take all the characters, power data, content, everything, and create it's own new client and server and keep rolling City of Heroes. Problem is: thats the hardest part to change. Would had been easy to change the name and sugar coat.
  13. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
    The hate is mainly for the way the announcement has been made with no explanation at all as to why, and to how PS was laid off with no warning.
    If there is truth to the rumor, it's very likely this was going negotiation that fell through at the last minute, not too unlike that Direct TV/ Warner Brother's fiasco recently.

    However in this case, it was not just about a few stations but about killing the oxygen supply on the studio.

    There is a potential chance the team was aware this negotiation was going on, but they likely kept being told "don't worry, we will handle it". Again, if true, it's very likely Atary/Cryptic made the negotiation look reasonable all the time, while every day inching things away so it always was out of reach, so they could never be blamed of directly killing the game.
  14. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Satanic_Hamster View Post
    I TOLD you guys that the I4 global defense nerfs would kill the game.

    Freaking TOLD you.
    Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    If this is true, then you are extremely wrong, you just happened to accidentally point in the right direction.
  15. This is from the Gucomic forums:


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jaybonaut View Post
    I actually have more news on this.

    Apparently this was all dropped like a ton of bricks on the studio this morning, with no warning whatsoever. They had huge plans for the game in the upcoming months. This also happens to be the exact same week that Guild Wars 2 hit from the same publisher and the NDA was just lifted on Planetside 2 beta today.

    The rumors are that when Cryptic sold the rights to the game, they kept the engine and licensed it to NC Soft Norcal, now known as Paragon Studios. It was for a 5 year license and that license is ending.

    Since Cryptic went to Atari and Atari went to Perfect World, they didn't want competition in the superhero genre and either refused to renew or made it too expensive on purpose.
    I followed up with the following bit:
    That rumor makes a LOT of sense... I am aware at least of part of it but not about the span of the lease or a possible refusal to renew.... where did you read it? Not sure why it would be a reason to fire the entire staff overnight... although the licensing may had also been the force to kill all income generated by the game... "we allow you a 2 month transition window but no income can be generated during that window" would be enough to force a studio shutdown...
    If this is true... the NCSoft hate may be entirely out of place... and moving on to Champions Online may be precisely what they want to come out of this.
  16. Heck if y ou look around you will find Meridian 59 is still up and running. THATS epic track record for an insanely old MMO.

    BTW, in the forums of the strip listed above, saw this extremely interesting tidbit:


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jaybonaut View Post
    I actually have more news on this.

    Apparently this was all dropped like a ton of bricks on the studio this morning, with no warning whatsoever. They had huge plans for the game in the upcoming months. This also happens to be the exact same week that Guild Wars 2 hit from the same publisher and the NDA was just lifted on Planetside 2 beta today.

    The rumors are that when Cryptic sold the rights to the game, they kept the engine and licensed it to NC Soft Norcal, now known as Paragon Studios. It was for a 5 year license and that license is ending.

    Since Cryptic went to Atari and Atari went to Perfect World, they didn't want competition in the superhero genre and either refused to renew or made it too expensive on purpose.
    It makes a lot of sense... I was aware of the licensing and knew it would get in the way of any open-sourcing or re-sale of the game... but should it be true that Cryptic was the one behind the killing.... it would make sense... and it would drive me crazy insane....
  17. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Brillig View Post
    Ironically, Horizons is still alive, after a fashion.
    So is Shadowbane.
  18. Starsman

    I am crying.

    Well I am off work, at home, in the home office. In front of me stand a pile of City of Heroes boxes I had not put away since I moved in here recently.

    Wife is not home and I'm here alone.

    Now I'm starting to actually feel like crying some...

  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lightslinger View Post
    I'm sure it's crazy illegal but, we're past that little issue now IMO.

    What would it take for us to get a community run private server for CoH? I know other games like WoW and many others have them.

    I get that it won't be like the game now. No more updates, no dedicated dev staff and all that. However, at least CoH and it's community could carry on.

    We're past petitions to save CoH, NC Soft has already killed the game they've just yet to pull the plug. A kick starter to buy the IP is noble but I'm sure it would need MILLIONS to buy then operate so why not cut out the middle man and make our own server?
    I gave this same thing a LOT of thought in my drive from work. The game was designed for dialup so it's likely the client-communication is not insanely complex.

    If I was 5 years younger, single and with less responsibilities in my life, I would spend the next 2 months making sure I got an emulated server working.
  20. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fire Man View Post
    - bAss ackwards



    To those that wondered why I've been silent on the boards, now you know why. Oh, and sorry I couldn't get Big Red Ball in the game. I'm going to miss Scrappers so much!


    Well now there is a shocker...
  21. I was thinking Evanescence's My Immortal would do a great goodbye video.
  22. This will never happen. The underlying engine still belongs to Cryptic and is licensed by NCSoft. The terms of this licensing I have not the slightest hints on, but they may range from a one time fee to a monthly fee (big reason to shut down the game with a deadline if it's not making money.)

    Regardless the terms, they are extremely unlikely to have any clause that allows them to redistribute the source code freely.
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Residentx10 View Post
    I think they knew this game was ending. I had never ever seen this game go 30+ days with no patching..I had plans to bring it up on today's freedom talk but...
    Hawk was yesterday doing last minute changes to powers and talking about it in beta. They had no clue.
  24. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Neuronia View Post
    You could be really, freakishly OP and the Devs were mostly ok with it.



    I am going to try both of the others...and I'll gladly sub to any of yours Stars, you have a fantastic head for numbers.
    I don't have the money to make an MMO, but I may be able to slowly build some small scale multiplayer game with player-created content and user hosted servers (the Minecraft way.)

    Any such large project will take more than a year, though. In the meantime I may first make sure I can make some small casual games to make sure I am ready to make "real" games.

    Already have one on the Android Google Play store: Misu Misu Kaboom, a cat that spits bombs out of it's mouth.
  25. If I was one of these crazy lotto millionares I'd put in an offer, but I think they still wont be selling.

    There is also a bit of legal issues there, from what I understand, they never actually purchased everything from Cryptic. They licensed the engine and may had bought the IP, but there still are ties between this game and Cryptic that make a purchase or open source extremely unlikely.