Squez

And a bit more on this. I just got off a team of 5 people total (lvl 36-39). Before one member logged and was replaced, he went to Founders Falls to buy SOs.

The rest of the squad had no one running any set bonuses ('cept me who has them up the yin yang). Scanning the badges in between fights, no one has signs that they've made themselves generics (though a couple people may have had them)

I end up on teams of this type a lot. There is a large chunk of the populace who don't want to IO their characters. I think they stop by every once in awhile to proclaim they want to play City of Heroes, not City of Stockbrokers.

However, I fully support the solution to your problem: Just have Positron release I16 ASAP. Write him early, write him often.

lol

Thanks Smurphy and Anonymous Commentor for pointing out a category I left out of the box.

When I sit down to a game, whether CCG, CoX, board game, etc. I expect all people who sit down to the game to agree to the rules. They implicitly agree that there will be a winner and one or more losers.

If it was a fun experience, I expect there might be multiple rounds of said game. And the results will probably be different.

The Golden Rule doesn't apply in normal game scenarios, other than making sure there is no cheating, and the other implicit agreement that people are there to have fun (i.e., don't be a boor, don't mooch food, etc.). In CoX, the computer takes care of most of that and the devs get reports on the rest.

In a purely voluntary exercise like PvP and the Market, in addition to the above points, the Golden Rule especially doesn't apply. No one controls the means of production, no one is forcing anyone to pay any price, and there is a huge degree of flexibility in what one may purchase or buy (i.e., a level 40 selling for more than you want to pay? A level 34 is not far off in performance, is cheaper, and lasts just as long). The system is mostly anonymous as well so it would especially be difficult to try to assign culpability.

The devs appear to have a much broader vision of game play, enjoyment, and providing a variety of activities that people find enjoyable. They have spelled out what they consider acceptable behavior (to a large extent anyway), and provide in-house and customer-generated ways of policing that behavior. Customers sit down to play or they go elsewhere. Going much beyond that is just eccentric.

A redname posting in Market??? And on topic?

/em Keanu_Reeves "Whoa"

*makes mental note to play my ill/rad tonight in Mod8's honor*

As I understand it, the knock on a certain company's way of doing this is that basically everyone wants to be in the upper right hand box; if a company can do that, its sales go up. Then it leads to boxes like this.

But since people were bandying about several ways to look at it, the box seemed to do the trick. I could do a dry categorization like we used to do back in philosophy, but drawing divisions isn't as much fun (nor as quick) as drawing boxes.

Edit: as I re-read, I think I can answer the question even. If farmers realized they could make money quicker strictly via the market, they might stop farming. They don't for a variety of reasons; the market remains just a place to cash in their chips. The hardcore farmer may well be at the far right intersection of marketeer and farmer (smart farmers need to know what gets deleted immediately, what gets sold to move, and what gets sold for gold (but not so much to induce 'slot clog.')).

Ouch.

And this is sort of an agreement with Adeon_Hawkwood as well. One thing Squez brings to the table is an unhealthy attachment to doing Field Crafter. I have 9 so far (not as good as some, more than others). I also have many sheets of paper tracking a bunch of others that are in various stages of progress. I play on all servers, so the odds of my being able to twink another character were extremely low pre-I9. And post I9 I don't have a reason to bother.

(For the record, my style of play doesn't show up in BBQ's initial take on categories. I showed up on LJHalfbreed's old schema where I think I had high degrees of lazy along with my marketeering.)

In the above example, it's just plain painful. I often around level 10 start working on 25/30 badges since they're practical (increased salvage inventory). Level 25 heal recipes can be bid on in cheap stacks, and I hazard I could get them for around 2,000 (especially if bid overnight or so); damage is a bit less since they drop more. Damage won't sell well, but level 25 heals will actually make a little cash (should be able to get over 50K). The salvage can be similarly obtained (though by level 10 I have a few of the salvage laying around already).

If I had to pay 30K + full salvage price + crafting cost + expecting to sell at a huge loss = crazy broke Squez on every server. As it was, in my most extreme examples my lvl 19 scrapper ended up with over 30 mil when all was said and done (mostly crafting a few key 35/40s) and my recent level 17 stalker at over 100 mil (added a little ebil flipping in there).

A little above this reply is someone (edit: Hydrophidian) who went and tested some 1K bids across the salvage board. Totally matches what I've seen over and over again.

For my money, you really can't beat Baloo the bear's take: If you're running around like that, you're working too hard. Over 100,000 people twinking you is a much more laid back way to go. I love those folks.

Still mentally chewing on the categorization from page one, but I wanted to highlight this statement.

I agree with the earlier assessment that Heraclea is basically a market non-user (and is very much not alone in that). But the quoted bit above has been said by many, many people since the market was released.

It's quite natural to freak out from sticker shock perusing the last 5 prices, but to move from non-user (hoarder and/or avoider) to user, the statement above has to become this:

"When lower level white salvage sells for 100K a pop, it's a fantastic boon for lower level characters to make a lot of money selling their drops; they end up being twinked by 1000s of people. Later, if they need that same salvage, they can buy it back for far less by being patient."

What I wish I knew is what A-HA! moment gets people to move there.

My brother is an accountant, notorious skinflint, and master planner.

My son was visiting him for awhile and remarked one day that my brother should invest in some chopsticks (we have an abundant supply at my house, and they're surprisingly useful in several contexts).

Well, using the word "invest" for a "purchase" (on a non-depreciable item no less) was too much for my brother to handle, so my poor son was subject to a very long diatribe on how purchasing such items could not be seen as an investment.

I, of course, did what any brother would do and invested in some chopsticks on my brother's behalf when I came down to visit.

He will? Dude's kind of bonehead...

I did put a section in the guide on whether it's worth the effort. The thing is, as others are saying, you should be making money on the way to Field Crafter. Not Smurphy kind of money, but decent walking around money. You'll only be taking a hit on the lvl 10s, the Mez category, and the Debuff category--and even then people have been more generous about Mez for the last several months (you can now break even if you don't mind some slot clog for a few days).

For my characters that have it, it's sometimes simply amusing (I had a lvl 19 scrapper get it and a level 17 stalker who, as usual, started with nothing; that kind of thing amuses me greatly). For the others, it's just nice to say sayonara to Steel, Cap, Talos (closest base portal) and all their power spammers.

Hear, hear!

That is frightening yes, but what about the witchcraft involved with there being a lot of something, but a lot of people want it, and then it's worth more, too???

The devs need to fix voodoo and witchcraft.

I'm going with this.

Curiosity may kill the cat, but it also messes with server load.

It's a question, not a supposition. If they're removing the (dumb) level restriction on (most) zones, are they also removing the (equally dumb) intro level restrictions on contacts?

And as Faultline is the preeminent example of dumb contact level restrictions, it would be a nice place to test. If I don't see that a closed beta tester tried it out, I'll probably run around and try stuff like that in the open beta.

/em Samuel L. Jackson "Allow me to retort"

Well, probably not that strong. Let me just be a devil's advocate. Zone level restrictions appear to be game-play related (access to powers vs survivability).

Not that I agree with it: I don't see any real reason I shouldn't be able to take a level 2 into Perez or all the way to the Shard if I want to, but that's the system in place. Plus, if I forget to train upon reaching certain magic levels, I can't get into places like Striga and Crey's Folly even if I'm actually that level.

I would forsee, given how many zones and contacts are level-locked, that those restrictions would not be lifted. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I can't see them digging into the code and undoing all that.

Edit: Should have read all the replies and am, as advertised, happy to be proven wrong, but they're keeping it on the PvP zones and Hami. That's a bummer.

To the closed beta testers: Please, please test this thoroughly. And see if you can do Doc Delilah early.

Curious on your rationale for thinking this.

Less flipping! Moar tempting!

QFT.

Those that do not learn this are doomed to buy it NAO.