Snow Globe

Doesn't explain why TPN & Keyes are less prone to fail than BAF or Lambda.

Oh come on... Please exercise a tiny bit of reading comprehension. The very first two words of my post is saying that it is a personal observation. I've done a few on other servers, but only trials I've personally been on.

It has actually gotten worse over time in most cases. Anyways, here are my actual numbers.



Click thumbnail for larger image.

So have I. However not always, and not everyone on the league.

The question was if the statement itself was clear or not. This should not a difficult concept. If the statement was clear, then the question has to be asked of "Which takes precedence, the stated intentions or the implementation?"

I asked about what part of Arbiter Hawk's post was unclear, and you come back with "because the power says this". The question wasn't directed at implementation, only the stated goal. It is very clear that the two aren't agreeing:

• The stated goal is that the entire league gets the buff.
• The implementation is set to 16, which is less than the entire league.

What you just said was that because the implementation does X, then a clear statement is unclear.

In this case it is clear to me that:

1. Is quite clear, yet people are telling others that the clearly worded developer intention doesn't mean what it says.
2. It is mostly clear that this is exactly what is happening, so the power seems to be functioning as the power describes (which takes care of #3).

I've seen all 6 level shifts, I've seen none. The power itself is random, which is not as stated.

Actually the same goes for the debuff that Black Swan has. During the Black Swan encounter it is variable as to what happens to the player, no matter what distance the player is in relation to her:

• "no effect": A player at +3 (all level shifts) staying at +3.
• "stated effect": A player at +3 (all level shifts) being reduced to +0.
• "double effect": A player at +3 (all level shifts) being reduced to -3.

On Triumph, the highlighted portion hasn't happened for the following trials:

• Underground.
• MoM
• To some extent DD.
• To doing TPN the "developer intended way" with people both in and outside of the buildings.

The first two I listed might as well not exist on Triumph for how much they are being done. The last MoM trial I've seen/been on was April 14th.

Given that I posted the following quote just above your where you posted this:
That is less than 10 posts ago. It isn't that hard to see, is it?

Just so you don't have to go back, I'll post it again (highlight mine):
Is the above post from Arbiter Hawk in any way unclear? What part of "the entire league" translates to 16 players on a 12-24 player trial?

I've had around a 5% failure rate with Keyes (including pre-nerf), and a 0% failure rate with TPN on live. I have seen a 10%-12% failure rate with BAF & Lambda. DD is hit or miss, with more successes than failures (not at my home computer atm, but I'd guess around a 20%-30% failure rate). Underground and MoM have a consistent 50% (or greater) failure rate still. Right now, Magisterium is shaping up to be like DD in terms of failure rates.

The problem is that it isn't supposed to be limited to 16 entities according to stated developer intentions.

I counter your assumption that people are assuming this with an actual developer quote as to what is supposed to happen:
Hightlighted for clarity.

Is the above post from Arbiter Hawk in any way unclear?

Except if you are talking about taking out the lights, that mechanic specifically has been shown to be not working.

And in at least one glaring example not working as stated.

I've seen anywhere between 5%-60% without at least one level shift. I've seen many with only 1 level shift. It isn't that hard to find examples of less than full shifts on smaller servers.

The Yin TF badge is supposed to count for TF Commander.

Zwillinger said to give them 2 business days to apply the tokens for the celestial set to your account. As yesterday and today aren't business days, I wouldn't expect anyone to have it from a petition yet. The earliest business day that would apply if you sent in a petition on Thursday would be Monday.

Actually the main difference is that a good portion of the group was composed of Fusion Force (including yourself). Fusion Force, in my experience, is a solid group of players that pay attention and listen to the leader of the trial. I'm always happy when teaming with members of Fusion Force because of that.

It doesn't seem to be a display glitch. The level shifts are being given randomly.

At the bottom of the character's profile, you can find "Unobtained badges". Open that link. Also, at the top of the character profile, when you are logged into the site, there is a link at the top called "badge checklist".

Edit:
Example: http://cit.cohtitan.com/checklist/long/727

Sure... I was with Kyle_Al_Mordu on the trials he was talking about. Literally a "night and day" difference between the two nights. Then again the second night had more people willing to listen to their leader (not me).

I would agree with that. And if groups want to avoid the lights, more power to them.

The thing is that I don't complain all the time. If I get to the point where I'm making complaints (and not in local, broadcast, team, league, request, or even open global channels), I shut up and quit after the trial is over. Then I think about what ticked me off about the trial/task, and if I think it is the fault of the game mechanics I post my feedback.

Your story, while sad (the player should have found something else to do), does not reflect my in game actions. I'm usually trying to tell people that Keyes isn't hard or leading a trial that I'm comfortable with. I sometimes go against my better judgement and do trials I don't like only to see them fail due to any number of reasons (poor leadership or people not listening to the leader being the main two).

I'm sorry for putting you in the same group that IS taking that stance. It ticks me off to no end that they demand proof of intangibles or tell everyone it is too easy just because their group can do it.

I think that you are better than the average player that I see on these trials. I think that you go in with an attitude that lets you do things that a lot of players I see can't or won't do.

And if I did that, I would either have to stop doing trials or move servers.

I know that after trying to show people how it can be done, yet they still fail to put that knowledge into practice.

According to the 4/27/2012 patch notes, the cooldown is 30 seconds, not 35.

The disclaimer was there already. You even quoted it. I said my global friends list and the global channels I belong to. Shockingly enough, not all my global channels are Triumph-centric.

No server is as active as Virtue or Freedom.

[QUOTE=I Burnt The Toast;4257694]The lack of Incarnate trials is the MAIN reason I left Triumph. You may not like it, but many do...as evidenced by multiple instances of starting zones for incarnate trials even before i23 hit on Freedom/Virtue.

I agree, and for some that is the Incarnate System. However, the reason why people are leaving isn't as important as people are leaving.

Not all my global channels are from one server. And your ad-hominem is without basis in reality.

Talk to Zwillinger. All I can say, and have said, is from what I've seen happening on my global friends list and the global channels I subscribe to.

I don't have subscription numbers. However I do see that Triumph's main channel went from 2,500 accounts to under 1,000 and the amount of players on (visible & hidden) went from over 200 to around 100 at the same time of evening.

Is it all because of the Incarnate System? No. Is it a factor? Yes.

Yeah, but you weren't there the night before. For every success last night on Triumph, there was a failure the night before.

And those becoming VIPs are less than the amount leaving by all indications. People that have done trials in the past on my global lists (friends, global channels) aren't coming back and the new people aren't filling the vacancies. The new subscribers might slow the amount of loss, but the loss is getting bigger all the time.

Yes, I've seen my level shift climb as high as 9. That screenshot shows where it didn't. And the Swan fight, sometimes I was +3, sometimes +0, sometimes -3 with no rhyme or reason as to why.

On a group that narrowly succeeded recently. Not everyone plays on min-maxed toons.

On a group that narrowly succeeded recently. About a half-dozen team wipes, I think close to 70 deaths for the SF, and that is with good people on good characters (a few exceptional characters). Yet I've also run it recently where it was a near cake-walk. What was the difference? One was a pre-assembled group vs a PUG.

Good for you, I've never heard of a Khan going less than 30 minutes.

And there is the crux of the problem. The game isn't difficult for you. Glad to know that. However that doesn't translate to the game is easy for a lot of people. Arbiter Hawk said they weren't solely aiming at the hard core or the casual player. At this point this trial is not accessible for the casual players.

The highlighted portion is the key point you continually ignore. Yes, to YOUR GROUP all these are easy. Again, I was on a STF this last week where we very nearly failed it, despite several skilled players on some good toons.

I said pretty much the same as your final point:
Some people are so annoyed at this point with the entire Incarnate System that they've unsubscribed.

And to all the people saying "give it a few weeks":
In a few weeks, outside of blatant bugs, this trial will be left alone and not touched. There is no reason for anyone who is displeased with this trial to wait "a few weeks" as that means it will be far too late to adjust the trial. I personally think that is what everyone that is telling others to "give it time" is counting on. The only problem is that it is incredibly short sighted of them. If people still hate the trial after a few weeks, or even a few attempts, they find other things to do. At that point you've lost another player to either a new server or possibly even keeping their subscription. If they aren't getting satisfaction from the trials, they'll stop doing the content.

This is the main problem Incarnate Trials face. This trial especially divides the trial running players into "have's" and "have-not's".