Slaunyeh

You forget, we're villains.

But seriously. Some does not equal all. Or even most. And I've never seen anyone actually suggest this seriously (unlike the blue-side nutjobs who seriously suggest dropping red-side support entirely). I've said what I have to say on the subject, though, especially after that "perceived slight" comment. That's the kind of uninformed drivel that almost makes me wish that blue-side had it as bad as red side. "Go play some old content in Ouroboros" indeed. Thank you, that's very helpful. Now excuse me, I have a Peter Themari arc to re-run.

I'm done.

I started on the series back in the 90s when it was 'just another' piece of nerdy fantasy literature that nobody wanted to hear about. No angst on my account though, I'd rather have the books good than fast. So please, GRRM, take as much time as you need.

Let's see if I can answer your questions. I think I could probably do this in my sleep, by now.

1) As has been said again and again, we're not opposed to the idea that villains occasionally get to save the day. We're opposed to the idea that essentially all new content involves villains saving the day. We're opposed to the idea that essentially all new content has been hero content that villains are graciously allowed to play through as well. It gets old. It gets stale. And, to be frank, it's disrespectful to the portion of the playerbase that prefer villainous content.

Take the movie Rise of the Silver Surfer. Now, ignoring whether it was a good movie, it does (to me) exemplify hero-villain cooperation. The villain has a plan beyond "for the greater good." The villain gets to go through with it, even if he does fail horribly in the end.

Take the Praetorian War. We have a dimension full of super-tech. We have an orderly society that, frankly, is geared to handling small-time insurrection like the resistance, syndicate, etc. Relatively small-scale or subtle enemies. The place is ripe for picking while everyone else gets busy fighting a war.

But at the end of the day, it really just comes down to the writing. Most of these missions barely acknowledge that you're a villain. Heck, a few of them explicitly doesn't.

If you had read up on every time someone has brought up your questions, you'd realize that none of us wants "destroy the world" missions. We just wanty content that acknowledge that villain motivation is deeper than "for the greater good". We would be playing blue-side if that's what we wanted.


2) It's all about acknowledgement. Does the Devs even realize they have a red side? From a lot 'new' content (admittedly, I think DA does this better than most) I can see why people would start to doubt it. We're not asking for 15 issues of exclusive villain content, but it'd nice if the mission writers would put a little more effort into thinking A) Why would a villain character even be here? And B) Can we throw in a few twists for our red-side players. If you can't come up with an answer to A, you should just accept that what you are working on isn't co-op content.

And no, before anyone get started, the answer to A isn't "we will pay you!" like the rest of the game. Because, you know, they never actually do, nor does the concept of 'money' even exist mechanically. If I want a warehouse full of pretend-money, I'll do a mayhem mission thankyouverymuch.

What makes Sister Psyche a joke isn't that she wear see-thru spandex. What makes Sister Psyche a joke is how she wears see-thru spandex and then flip out when her random mind-police scans reveal that people have noticed.

Hear hear.

As for the "it doesn't make sense to give attention to red-side when there are more blue-side players" argument, then what's up with the coming blaster changes? Why aren't we focusing exclusively on scrappers?

If, by 'nazis', you mean close-minded bigots who refuse to understand more of the world than what's just beyond the tip of their nose, I think you got that backwards. You are playing that. I'm offering a chance to break that habit.

But never mind, the offer was made and I have my answer. Thank you.

It also ties nicely into a Praetorian story arc where they build a perfect replica of Tyrant himself. I think it only fails because someone (*looks guilty*) reprograms it to go haywire and kill people. So it's already established that Tyrant has the technology to pull something like that off.

Yeah. Personally, I'd like to see several levelling paths, which is what Skyway offers (even if it's in a vaguely awkward 2004 kind of way). If every character had to go the same identical path through Steel Canyon, that'd be horrible.

Sure, Skyway could use some of that shiny new content Steel has been getting, but it certainly doesn't need to go away.

I know. That's why I am not suggesting you play a crusader. I am suggesting you play a responsibility loyalist, so you can educate yourself a little on what you are talking about.

Just offering a chance for you to come off as less close minded than you usually appear. For the greater good, right?

I don't know why I even bother replying, but: The game has managed in the past, with varying degrees of success. Suddenly it is, and always has been, impossible? Ouroboros much?

I realize we've been on the same side of this issue since day 1, yes. I was quoting you for emphasis, not to correct you.

You are probably right, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

You should try creating a loyalist and play through the Praetorian responsibility content. It doesn't take that long to play through, and I think you'd find it more insightful than just reading about it on paragonwiki. I'll even join you to help it go even more smoothly. And, because I've never done a warden resistance member all the way through, I'll join with a one of those. Only fair that I play against type too.

Challenge issued!

But you only know that because you are level 50+ and have already played through it. That should not diminish the important personal sacrifice a loyalist PC makes when she abandons friends, family and the people she swore to protect in order to travel to a foreign world to forestall an inevitable war that very well could end up destroying everything you've fought so hard to protect.

At level 20, when you make this choice, you don't know that the Devs have already decided that you are going to fail. The game could have build on this, leading to the inevitable breakdown in communication (perhaps through villain actions, giving the rogue islers a win for a change), and eventually tie into the war in a bittersweet moment where you realize that people on both sides want this war, and there's just no fighting human nature on your own. Instead it just... does nothing. Why write an ending to Praetoria that emphasis the importance of your sacrifice, and your mission on Primal Earth, if you (the writer) know that this mission will never be mentioned again and the character will just be a regular blue- or red-sider once you step through that portal?

And while you keep arguing that loyalists are not heroes, you forget that the 'loyalist' choice (whether power- or responsability-loyalists) is to go blue-side. Going red-side is the "selfish jerkface with no interest in what's best for Praetoria" choice.

I, for one, could have done without City of Heroes. But I don't begrudge those that enjoy blue-side their experience.

Sarcastic posts are helpful posts. Well-known fact.

And, as we've been saying again and again and again, it's not a problem that villains and heroes occasionally has to team up to accomplish something. It can make for a cool moment in a story. The problem is when that's the only content ever released. If you want to run your villain through content newer than Issue 7, you will have to play predominantly heroic content (some of which doesn't even try to give you a vaguely villainous excuse for being there).

We get why the Developers prefer co-op content. We get why co-op content has to be aimed more at heroes than villains. We're just tired of it.

Ultimately, the problem for me is that the 'perfect' hero/villain team-up opportunity is swiftly approaching: The Battalion. It makes sense for everyone to unite against this ultimate threat... but that gimmick has already been used and abused endlessly, and we're sick and tired of it before it's even begun. Personally, I find that's a dang shame.

Honestly, I'm getting a little tired of us having to repeat ourselves every time someone new to the discussion decides that they "have the solution to the problem." Especially when that solution is: "Suck it up. Villains want to save the world too!" At this point, I'd rather see the world burn than be forced to save it. Again.

Doesn't she only play the one character? I don't think she's played any low-level content. She should try giving a loyalist a shake, sometime, but I think she's too set in her ways that she could ever change her mind on anything (except the Crusaders being heroes. She's back-pedalled on that particular titbit quite vigorously of late.)

It's not that loyalists fail to stop the war, it's that they are never given a chance to try, because they just get shunted out into regular blue or red gameplay once they hit 20, and have no way to ever touch on the war again 'till they hit 50. By which time it has suddenly already happened.

And that's a failure of the Development team, not the loyalist character. So, not much we can do about that but shrug and move on. Using it as the basis of your crusade against people who enjoy different stories than you, is just dumb.

That's pretty awesome, thanks for clearing that up.

That was an incredible emotional moment. You're telling me it didn't happen??

That's the thing. We have no idea how they are naming these things. LV-something and LV-somethingElse could be on the opposite ends of the galaxy, or it could be a clerical error and they are really the same place. We have no way to know.

We can assume that the writer wants us to think it's 'Somewhere Else' since he chose to call it something else.

Oh, and while we're on the topic of assumptions, I also think it's fairly safe to assume the Engineers didn't crash-land on LV-223 (not counting that one time they got rammed by an Earth spaceship.) But hey, for all we know LV-223 could be an abandoned junkyard. If they forgot one of their own in the trunk, that'd explain why he's so pissed when we let him out.

I'm not sure what exactly you're disagreeing with. If the above had been my point, I'd disagreed with it too, but that wasn't even remotely what I was suggesting.

Good luck! Hope you enjoy it.