Slashman

The newspaper/radio system really needs to go.

I've heard that CO is introducing a system where basic street sweeping will generate missions. The idea is that you save some people and they have a chance of asking you for help with a problem. I think I'd much prefer that kind of thing. As long as the missions aren't randomly thrown-together keywords, I'd be happy.

It could work for villains too. As you run around town 'getting into trouble', you pick up some info that you can take advantage of to come up with a scheme to further your goals.

I don't mind if you have to eventually do a mayhem at the end(I rather like them). Its the in-between newspaper missions that are annoying...especially if you get 3 choices that are all the same enemy...or all in the same cave.

They could actually add to the missions as time went on.

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All of the villains I have rolled that have made it to 35 have tended to rocket fairly quickly to 50 --- because I no longer have to play redside at that point. They can all grind in Cimerora or (if not smashing/lethal) RWZ and run ITFs and Lady Greys until they hit 50.

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It's odd...I tend to think that redside becomes MORE interesting after 35 because the villain content gets better. There is St. Martial and I don't mind Grandville all that much.

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My villains tend to stall in the early 20s. This is where redside forces you to Sharkhead, and I pretty much hate everything about that zone.

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Sharkhead isn't my favorite redside zone...but I can't say that it's any worse than any other villain zone. I'm guessing your hatred of it is aesthetic in nature.

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I also strongly dislike Grandville, which is pretty much unplayable without stealth and fly.

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Ok...you can stop with the hyperbole. My redside 50 is a thugs/poison MM and I had teleport. I teleported pretty much all over Grandville on my way to missions and contacts. It's not the easiest zone in the world to negotiate but you do NOT need fly or stealth to get around in it.

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The introduction of radio missions revived blueside.

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They haven't for me...which may explain why I spend so much time redside.

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Honestly, CoV suffers from BAD DESIGN more than it suffers from anything else.

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To be precise, it suffers from trying to cram the same design that works OK for CoH into a villainous setting. It was laziness on the part of the developers...or maybe they were scared that if villains got something truly unique, it would tick off their staunch hero players.

It actually demonstrates just how lacking BOTH games are. No one should feel great about having to do pointless hunt missions and getting sent to zones that sometimes make no sense to do missions for a contact in a different zone.

Where is the logic that you are going to rescue the members of a law firm and their office happens to be in Perez Park(you know...the zone that was abandoned)?

It's not that it's great on blueside...it is more that the wrong stuff still fits in even though it is wrong. One of the major annoyances on blueside for me is that any contact can give you one of several story arcs. That only started to change with recent zone additions like the Hollows and Croatoa. You'd get the same dialogue from any of half a dozen contacts in a level range.

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There's just so little to do there that's actually interesting.

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That's mostly in your head. The scope of CoV missions isn't less than CoH missions. There are simply more CoH missions...which all are very much the same, not necessarily better. I actually enjoy some of the later COV missions...like where you assault a Longbow base to destroy their aircraft or assault a battleship. Not much of that on blueside.

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Most of the arcs are glorified paper missions, sometimes not even that.

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It's the same on blueside. The only difference is someone is telling you how great a job you did and how you managed to save the day in the nick of time.

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CoH arcs may drag on, but at the end of the day they still feel epic. Almost all CoV arcs feel like a job.

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Dragging on may bring a greater epic feel for you...but it doesn't for me. There are dozens of blueside arcs where I can sit back and count the number filler missions on BOTH of my hands. That's not superior design...that's timesink insertion. At the end of the day...you're still not the driving force behind pushing the story forward any more than you are in COV...someone is simply TELLING you that you are. Oh...and you ARE doing a job...CoV is from the perspective of a mercenary villain. I'm not saying that's perfect...but that is what the design is right now.

Villains don't get a pat on the back...but the problem is that they don't get anything else for their troubles either.

This goes back to what I've been saying about CoV missing an extra layer of gameplay that CoH may not need.

When Statesman killed the skill system and decided to not try to replace it with anything else, I think that left a serious void in the game as a whole that has never been filled. Inventions and Day Jobs didn't fill it. Our missions have not become deeper to compensate for it.

Of all the things I hope Going Rogue brings to the game...side switching is the least of it. Because if all it means is the same scope of missions...but just in different settings, then its still failed to address the underlying problems of this game. Playing a scrapper in the Rogue Isles won't broaden the scope of the game...neither will a mastermind in Paragon City. Its still going to be the same old same old. Something fundamental needs to change.

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That's actually the symptom of a greater disease - CoV doesn't seem to have a point for the most part.

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To this I will agree. CoH doesn't need a point since you're being good for goodness' sake. CoV needed an additional element added to it to make you feel like you're a bad guy with a plan.

It actually comes back to what I've been saying about not expanding the core game for 5 years. Each redside zone you progress to should have some kind overall objective for you to pursue as a villain. Whether it's trying to carve out your own piece of territory or establishing a master plan against a known enemy hero. There should be some kind of mini-game or alternate goal that drives your villainous deeds. We got nothing.

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Plus, most arcs either advance the plot (Countess Crey has been arrested and convicted!) or reveal some crucial canon information (The Circle of Thorns are 14 000 years old, you say?). Villain-side... Not so much.

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You're just spewing anger here Sam. The Magus Mu Drahkan arc gives you a VERY detailed look at the origins of both the CoT and Mu as well as their relationship to each other. Maybe more than you even WANT to know and its a long set of missions. The Seer Marino arc gives you detailed insight into Ghost Widow's origin and Marshall Brass reveals Dr. Aeon's origins as well as leads you towards the Tarikoss TF...which gives you even more information.

Also to counter your argument, blueside will repeatedly bring you to the brink of knowledge and then leave you hanging. All the early missions about the Lost reveal NOTHING substantial. And none of the info you dig up about the relations of the small time gangs like Hellions, Thugs and Outcasts to larger gangs in other zones is ever really used. You just move onto something else.

The major problem with redside is that the dev team stopped really adding to it over the course of the following issues. Every addition has been tied to something on blueside. The excuse that more people play on blueside has also been the thing that's hampered redside's progression more so than just ugly(in your opinion) zones and missions that don't send you running to the ends of the earth and back. (And btw...you think that missions that send you all the way to the ends of Thorn Isle aren't enough travelling?)

I play blueside only really because I love blasters...and my SG alternates between the 2 every week.

The truth is that both sides could use some serious revamping. I can only hope that some of that comes with Going Rogue. Redside is a bit TOO streamlined in the early levels and blueside is so far off streamlined its crazy at times.

Regardless of how daunting a task it is...the early blueside content needs to be reworked. Simply adding alternate zones doesn't fix the sludge that has been festering there for half a decade. Some of the stuff just doesn't make sense anymore. Like why are we still acting like we don't know about the Lost and their Rikti ties? Or about the Clockwork? Lots of old stuff needs fixing...

Redside would be wonderful with even just one extra starting contact and a bit more variety in early mission enemies(although I really don't dislike the snakes that much). An alternate zone to Port Oakes and perhaps an alternate epic story to the Marshall Brass stuff. Once you hit Sharkhead...its really much better from there.

Also...when COV launched, villains should have had some kind of alternate advancement minigame...where you can hatch your own plans to stake your claim in the Rogue Isles. Most villains want to own their own territory or take control over something. Having you always appear to be just a goto guy for every contact and never being presented with a choice as to how you pursue your career is the big failing of redside IMO.

Actually, I was in AE the other day and saw a group of people standing around talking in local/broadcast. There was a Warshade there who was happily proclaiming that he didn't know how to form a team. Scary to think of teaming with someone like that by accident.

In any case, for those of us like me, who only solo or team with SG mates and known friends exclusively, there really isn't a big downside.

I tend to think that XP should have been slashed down significantly for AE. Maybe at about half the usual rate. Since you are supposedly playing it for the good missions/stories.

Then people who are realizing they are spending all their 'life' in MA buildings may be encouraged to step outside and find a real contact or run a TF/SF now and then. Meh...its just speculation on my part.

I'm pretty sure that Self Destruct is SUPPOSED to give you debt.

Are you sure that your patrol xp isn't just absorbing that?

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What is your build so I can replicate what you have.

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Its a ninja/pain.

He's only level 12...so I have the first 3 empathy powers. I also have snap shot, aimed shot, call genin and call jounin of course. That's about it.

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I have a zombie and Bot MM, haven't tried Ninja yet but I definitely will make one and report back on any results. If this is MMwide and not just some flakey occurence maybe by a specific mission arc then it might be worthy of some bug reports or suggestions on improving the ninjas to be on par with other henchmen reactions.

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Yeah...maybe its some other type of problem going on. I know I've been very happy with the way the bruiser is working now. He really keeps on going and doesn't let up. No idea why we still get the long pauses with ninjas. They are the pet set that mostly can't afford to just sit still...damage is all they have going for them.

The genin don't seem to have this issue...just the jounin.

This was on a mob that I gave a direct attack order on. I was on a team with a brute and stalker. When we would hit a spawn...I would lead in with my Jounin to attack the most dangerous Lt in the spawn.

I'm not a passive or new MM player. I'm always managing my pets and giving them attack/defend/follow commands where appropriate. The Jounin just stopped attacking for long periods.

And his cycling of attacks was pretty retarded as well...he'd spam Gambler's Cut sometimes and never use Soaring Dragon or Sting of the Wasp. Other times I saw him wait for Soaring Dragon to recharge and use it twice in a row with no other attacks.

Well I had THOUGHT that the recharge change to pets had solved all the MM pet woes. I saw my bruiser behaving better and getting into the thick of combat and even my Assault Bot was more peppy.

It seems, however, that the Jounin didn't get the memo. Sure they will now run into melee range...but they will still sometimes just stand there and do NOTHING even when they have to have SOME power ready for use.

I teamed with my SG redside this afternoon and it was slightly embarrassing to watch my Jounin shoot his dart...run into melee range, do a Gambler's Cut once...then just stand there and follow the mob's direction without ever executing another attack for a good long while. Then in another instance he does 2 Soaring Dragon's in a row...followed by nothing but Gambler's Cuts.

When are we ever actually going to get pets that behave correctly?

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Compared to the "take your breath away" MA Arcs? Oh wait, there aren't any.

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Well its odd...because the very people who you say are creating vastly superior stuff are stamping Dev Choice on quite a few of those absolute stinkers. Of course you're probably going to say they are either all lying about the fact that they enjoyed some player made stuff or that the players who got Dev Choice have sucked up to the devs in some form or fashion.

For the record I enjoyed several of the storylines you listed in your post. But I still wouldn't say its impossible for a player to create a story that is as good some of them.

The Neverwinter Nights community had several people that produced stuff good enough to get them job offers from Bioware. I find it hard to believe that we don't have one decent storyteller in all of the COX community. Of course, that's one decent storyteller that's up to your standards.

There are a few issues with MA that can hamper good story arcs. Firstly, the file size limit is too small. Maybe 150k would have been better...but 100k is all we got.

Secondly, there is no 'Ask about this contact' option. Why?? One of the best ways to learn about COX lore is to read the story of your contact. They don't give us that option and it forces you to use precious resource space in the missions to say some stuff about the contact that you're working with.

As an example of this. My contact, Char-Spryte is a young heroine who asks for your help. She's been an active hero in Paragon City for a little under six months. She become a partner and love-interest of a hero named Marrow-Spike. They both get help sometimes from some fellow heroes (N-Pulse and Darkmourne).

I could have written that kind of stuff easily into the 'Ask about this contact' space...but it doesn't exist. So I had her mention them in the arc...more so Marrow-Spike...who she wants at first to keep out of her current crisis. I don't have any cameos by them, by the way.

My point is that limiting the resources we have to work with, helps limit what we can do and say with MA arcs. Dev story arcs can be as long winded as they need to, in order to tell a story...but ours can't be.

I'll also point out that when I posted against the MA back before it released...you were arguing against me vehemently...now you're the one saying you keep away from it. And I'm the one saying its not THAT bad...but its still the cart before the horse in my mind that the devs have released it before making the core game deeper.

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It's more that a lot of people use it to go 'OH LOOK AT HOW SUPERBLY POWERFUL MY CHARACTER IS.' Just like putting the same character in as an extreme/extreme enemy archvillain.

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My arc doesn't even have an EB in it...so I'm not guilty of this one at least. I wanted it to be more story driven.

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Remember that the AE is basically an official vehicle for fanfic.

You're playing fanfic.

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But with a slightly lower chance of finding out that Spock is somehow carrying Goku's baby.

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Slightly.

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Wait! Are you saying that he ISN'T????

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That said, I'll stand behind some of the use of their own characters as the leaders of filler factions. When done well, it actually gives a face to them instead of just 'oh, hey, here are these other guys that need beat up.' (Which is kind of how the Knives of Artemis always come off in the canon material, to me.)

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I'll agree here. The problem is moderation and implementation. I used one of my own characters in my story arc...and I tried to keep my one custom group interesting and reasonable to fight against. The size limit is also annoying sometimes...you have to sometimes choose to cut things that you'd like to include...even when that thing makes your story better.

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The ever-common 'Oh, I'll come with you on this mission, since you'll never beat up [Archvillain!] without my help!' contacts are downright obnoxious, though.

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This happens once in the last mission of the arc...but I don't think I overdid it any. It's not because you NEED help. You can always send feedback.

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That it doesn't do that in the slightest? Seriously, where do people keep finding these Architect arcs that exceed developer-made content in terms of quality?

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Let me turn this around. Where do you find developer made content that takes your breath away with its wonderful storytelling?

Seriously. Some of the dev stuff is just plain weak. Sometimes its a decent story...but the arc drags on and on before it gets to the point with too large maps and not enough clues etc. Sometimes its just 'ok' stuff. Some things are great...like Faultline. Others are ho-hum...like the 'time travel' Council arc...Ubelmann or something like that.

Look...there are some absolute stinkers on MA. Lets not beat around the bush...but dev arcs have spelling errors and grammar errors...and some of it is just 'passable' writing.

I don't think my arc own arc is super wonderful...but its hopefully interesting enough that people will be interested in what happens next. I think that, given the limited nature of the mission system in the first place, thats the most you can hope for.

Weaving a wonderful story using the same 5 objectives is also quite tedious. There were things I would have liked to do in my arc that were just plain impossible. Aspects of the story that I would like to convey using the environment in the mission that I just can't do.

In any case...some of the dev choice stuff is decent. And Our SG had some fun running some of the arcs. Sorry if you're not finding writing that keeps you on the edge of your seat...but there probably isn't a budding Stephen King or Robert Ludlum among the community. Of course...there isn't one on the dev team either.

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I guess I am . . .okay . . . I know I am weird; but I LIKE the travel in this game. We get to FLY, or the other lesser travel powers, that is one of the best parts of the whole game to me!

Now don't get me wrong, I dislike the silly FedEx talk to missions as much as everyone; but the general travelling, flying as a super hero to the rescue, that never gets old to me.

The thing I miss the most if I stand around too long in an AE building is the sense of wonder at being able to FLY. So the simple thing for me is to walk out the upper floor doors . . . step to the edge . . . and it's UP UP and.... SEE YA!

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I love travel powers too! And I love to sightsee etc. The thing is that a new player may not ever get to understand that part of the game if he isn't required to move around much.

As a vet player, you already understand what you like about the game you've been playing for a few years...the other people who are just getting used to it...not so much. So if someone says...don't bother to do much besides run MA stuff...that's what you might end up doing...invalidating the other game content along the way.

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Remember that the AE is meant to supplement existing content, not replace it. It was made as a storytelling device, and if you're not interested in the stories and fluff, there's little point in using it.

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Actually, I think the point here is that there is a whole lot of point to using it. You don't actually need to run the other game content at all. You still get rewards and xp(often better xp) like the regular game missions. And you don't have to move an inch to get to your next mission or contact.

In that sense, it may not be much better than regular game content...but its a lot more convenient and regular game content offers little above what the MA can do. Your mission objectives are still the same, your mission environments are still the same(actually, you are more likely to see a mission map that you haven't seen before within MA).

It's possible to even recreate the content that's in the game now using MA and make it less annoying. You can use smaller maps and break up the monotony by using some custom enemies or bosses.

So in a very real sense, MA has made the actual game content very easy to ignore.

I made a post a while back before MA came out that basically said that they should have worked on expanding our core game BEFORE unleashing MA on COX. Why are missions in a game as simple as Freedom force still more interesting than what we have in COX? It's been 5 years...its time to up the ante.

GAH! Your optimism annoys me no end!

And incidentally:

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Because while it CAN does that, most of the time it does NOT. The number of really lousy story arcs vastly exceeds the number of well crafted ones.

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That's a problem that will simply solve itself. Loads of crappy stuff will be made...but now and then good arcs will get added. In time we will reach a point where the decent content in MA exceeds or approaches the quantity of stuff in the game. All the while it still won't address fundamental shortcomings of the COX game system.

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...yet.

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And yet...we still don't know if this is even something being addressed.

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It's completely revitalized my interest in the game. I'm sure I'm not alone.

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It made everyone take notice. I already said that I use it and made content with it. But the long term appeal of it to me is questionable. And probably to lots of other folks as well.

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That's been hinted at. However, the day jobs offering a means of offline character progression in the interim is, well...'

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FLUFF. Don't be afraid to say it with me. Additional badges and maybe, sometimes, possibly useful temporary buffs aren't progression. We did NOT need patrol xp. Its a passive gameplay system which *gasp* needs no actual gameplay. I'm sure people just went wild with the logging off and looked forward to not playing even more...

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And wouldn't you rather have that UNTIL we get a secret identity system than not? Wouldn't you?

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I'd just rather have the secret identity system now thanks. If I happen to log off in a dayjob location...fine. It hasn't revitalized or revolutionized my game experience.

The developers have done a lot of great work on this game in the past several issues...but it seems like a lot of things are still being danced around. If Going Rogue really does offer something deeper than just switching sides and pretty new scenery, then MA will fit nicely into the game instead of overshadowing it and exposing its paper-thin parts.

I actually thought about it a bit.

The fact that it doesn't really have any significant downsides may be the most problematic aspect of MA.

If we have a system that can pretty much mimic(and exceed) most dev created content in terms of storytelling and easily accessible missions, what's the real incentive for players to NOT use it all the time?

My current concern is that if Going Rogue simply offers some extra missions and contacts and some new zones, but doesn't expand the gameplay aspects of COX beyond the scope of what we have here, then there's not much point to new content really.

MA is an odd creature in my mind. I've used it(and do continue to use it), created an arc (120531) and come to an interesting conclusion.

MA simultaneously showcases the potential of COX while at the same time exposing its relatively shallow mission system. No matter how great a story you weave into an MA arc...your limitations are still the same as the content we've gotten so far. You can't really create new and interesting aspects of gameplay. Nor can you expand it. You can't create cool in-mission mini-games. You can't make the environment more interactive or critical to a mission. And the list goes on.

While I'm not anti-MA, I'm still not convinced it was the shot in the arm this game needed. It's a nice tool and funish toy...but it truthfully does not expand the game.

In the same manner that Day Jobs feels like an unfinished implementation(what we should have is a full secret identity skill system)...I think that MA content still has the feel of leaving me wanting more from the game. I can't fault the great stories I've played in the MA so far...but its still the lather-rinse-repeat formula that the devs have yet to break up by adding something truly new to the game thus far.

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Character agro's a lot of enemies.

Sends the enemies to a bunch of lowbies.

Characters uses the quick log off feature before anybody can get the name/global of said player.

Sorry but they need to keep the 30 second timer in. For the hassle of keeping the few trouble makers at bay im all for it.

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What troublemakers are you talking about? Do people have lurking family members or other nefarious individuals ready to mess with their(its the most important thing in the universe) COX characters?

I mean, really, is there a faction of troublemakers seeded across the earth who's soul purpose is to sabotage your virtual gaming life in COX?

What I find so amusing is that I've been playing MMOs for years. EQ, Jumpgate, EQ2, Ryzom, EVE, Tabula Rasa(rest in peace), Nine Dragons and the list goes on. I've met and interacted with families and couples who play. I have yet to come across a situation where what you people are making out to be common place occurred.

I'm part of a LAN party gaming group of about 50 people of varying ages from 18 - 40. Most of us play the same MMOs as well. I have yet to hear tell of this happening to any of them.

I'm not saying it could never happen to anyone, but there is no way that is the significant reason why we can't log to the character creation screen. There may well be some reason(like they haven't gotten around to it), but I'm doubtful that's it.

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That 30 seconds is there for a reason, Teeko.


As for "quit to character select" or "quit to server select"? Bad idea. Especially with the in-game store now. If I were to leave my laptop alone for a minute to get a drink refill, someone could accidentally buy a bunch of character slots, spending money I may not have.

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The in-game store didn't exist for several years. And that risk could be mitigated by requiring the user to retype their login credentials to confirm a transaction(and probably should be anyway).

I still think this whole thing about malicious people sneaking up to mess with other people's toons and accounts is a bit overblown.

Of course it can happen...but it doesn't happen everyday or to every person. Personally, I'm not all that worried about it changing or not...but the paranoia argument is still a bit wild.

No game company should be responsible for any other person's messed up personal life. If my ticked-off wife/girlfriend/family member decided to slip a centipede into my shoe while I was out of the room, I couldn't hold the shoe maker responsible for not putting a locking mechanism in place that closed the shoe the moment I took my foot out of it.

Well I have 3 servers full of toons. Victory, Infinity and Justice.

Of those 3 full servers the number of toons currently possessing Stamina number at 7.

My best blaster (archery/dev) has wiped a 7 man +2 level spawn of Nemesis alone then run back to join the rest of the team and wasn't completely out of end.

Likewise my sonic/elec blaster doesn't have stamina either and is doing fine. In fact, on most teams I'm on...I do the most damage hands down of everyone there(when I'm blasting).

I admit that I try to be highly efficient with how I play. I won't waste a high damage attack on a minion with just a sliver of health, and I leverage Defiance to give me the maximum damage bonus where ever possible. I actually end up mowing through things a lot faster than other people because most people just spam their attacks and run all their toggles.

For people who want to play without much thought, then most of the time they will need Stamina. I've had this argument with a lot of friends in game who swear that you can't do anything without stamina.

That's not true at all. You just need to adjust your tactics and playstyle accordingly. And I will practically never beg for blues.

Heck, my spines/SR is staminaless...and he still kicks serious butt. SR aside, most people will rarely turn off toggles that they don't need or think about switching targets or waiting for the optimal time to use their AoEs or more powerful attacks.

Maybe its just because I've been playing my archery/dev so much lately...but I can't think of a toon I've missed stamina less on.

If you want to solo AVs...then I'm the wrong guy to be talking to...but for the rest of the game, I prefer to get some of my cooler powers early than to use up 3 slots and play without them so I can finally start to take them 2 levels after I get stamina at 20.

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First, I fully acknoledge that your arc may well not have any of the issues that I am about to describe. That said, according to threads in the Training Room that particular map has problems with geometry that can cause collectable objects to spawn outside of the map. This has lead to certain arcs being uncompletable. It is likely that steps are being taken to correct these issues to make this map, which is one of several that have had similar issues, and make the map available again.

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In the gazillion times I ran my arc for testing...plus the people that have run it, no one has ever stated that they could not complete that mission(the final on in my arc) due to no not being able to click on an objective.

In any case I used a substitute map...but it kinda takes away from the feel of the last mission. In any case its playable til they fix or don't fix this issue. And I still think they arcs containing that map, and others with issues, should have gotten some kind of flag. I have no idea now how many people would have tried playing my arc with no explanation as to why it just would never start.

It had little enough playthroughs as is...