Silver Gale
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:No, the earliest one is that CoH fansite from Alpha days that closed down when the Devs made the decision to include ATs instead of the free-build system they had been promising until that point. This was of course seen as a cheap grab for more subscribers by imitating the dominant fantasy MMO at the time. The year was 2003.Originally Posted by Daemodand
Is this the earliest "doom" reference for the game? -
Quote:You're welcome!Originally Posted by TremDei
Thank you very much, SilverGale! That is so cute.
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Quote:One magical mousegirl w/ cookie!Originally Posted by TremDei
Here's my Magical Mousegirl, Nezumi-Ko.
Maybe you could have her munching on a large peanut butter cookie? -
Quote:One dude with a pair of curvy swords!Originally Posted by PowerStream
I'll throw one out there though I haven't played him in a while. May be time to change his AT...
Crescent Blade
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Quote:Hey, I wrote up a long post explaining why Trials may not be a grind to me, and you didn't even give me a glib summary that completely misses the point.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I could, but all that would result in is people twisting my statements back into what they think is the easiest to argue against. Why bother typing up five paragraphs of explanation when all it would lead to is someone doing a monster-quote and responding with "So you're actually saying something completely different, then?"
As far as I can tell, Sam, you make the following points:
1. There is nothing in the existing game that your 50s haven't already done.
2. Consequently, there is nothing in the game that you would enjoy doing on your 50s.
3. You are okay with this state of affairs.
4. You do not like what the Incarnate system represents, either mechanically or storywise.
5. The Incarnate system makes you a bit uncomfortable, because it represents something that your 50s *could* be doing, but that you don't enjoy doing.
These points are all a matter of subjective opinion. They represent how you, personally, feel about the game. They are not a matter of discussion. I would never dream of telling you any of those points is wrong, or that you are wrong for thinking that.
However.
You also seem to be making the following points:
1. The Incarnate System is unquestionably a grind, for any player who would participate in it.
2. Nobody could possibly enjoy running the Trials repeatedly. (See your first post, where you cautioned against "pretending to enjoy a grind" - assuming that anyone defending the Trials is only pretending to enjoy them.)
3. The Incarnate System is "not something for 50s to do" or "is technically something to do, but very little".
4. Having the Incarnate System is worse than not having it.
I disagree with you on all those points, and I believe I'm entitled to disagree. I think the Incarnate System add something to the game, even if it's not something you personally can enjoy, and that the game is better and richer for having it. I think there are players who will find running the Trials fun and engaging. I think the system is only a grind if a player lets it be one. -
Quote:Okay, so because the Incarnate system is not something you'd enjoy doing on your 50s, Issue 20 has nothing for 50s to do. Did I get that right?Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Of course, this doesn't loop back into the problem of giving us things to do at level 50. By its very nature of end game, we're not going anywhere, so those who want to play their 50s perpetually will indeed be stuck in limbo. But I've always seen this limbo as acceptable, as it was what you did after the end, after your adventure is over. I can stand having repetitive content, or running out of content after I've received closure on a game. Once I've beat it, I feel no compulsion to hunt down all the achievements after the end. But the Incarnate system now moves the goal posts. The game is no longer over. There's an entire second game tacked onto the end. Suddenly, my feeling of closure is gone, and the acceptably repetitive post-credits gameplay is now judged much less unacceptably-repetitive, because the credits will instead play ten "level" later than normal.
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I'm not sure what I can tell you, Sam, beyond "the Devs are not capable of making new story content faster than you can get bored of it".
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Quote:Ah, but you *could* have done it in a similar time by playing other content, so what you did was not a grind.Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
I just took my last character from 35-50 running nothing but ITFs the week it was the WST.
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Quote:"Casual" as in "limited playtime per week/day"? "Casual" as in "unable or unwilling to team"? "Casual" as in "cannot possibly guarantee they will be available for more than one hour at a stretch, ever"? "Casual" as in "will not do anything raid-like because raids are not 'casual' "?Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
Based on what we know, that isn't realistic. The best way I can explain it is that you can casually pick up Alpha slot all the way to very rare in a few months. But more than likely you can't pick up the other incarnate slots by playing casually in a few months.
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Quote:You could just run the two existing Trials a few times until the novelty wears off, and then go back to switching sides or playing TFs or whatever else you like (at any level!), converting the Shards into Threads, and waiting for more new Incarnate Content whenever they get around to releasing it.Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Because. It. Takes. A. Stupid. Amount. Of. Shards. To. Accomplish. Anything. Beyond. Alpha. The alternative is running the same two trials over and over.
I don't see how I can make it any clearer than that.
Oh, wait. But then you'll be getting your Incarnate powers slower than people who enjoy playing the two Trials a lot, and that's simply unacceptable.
Going from Vigilante to Villain, then back to Hero again, you say? Unless I am very much mistaken, that would have taken you a minimum of 8 days. There was a thread on these forums where people were reporting getting their Alpha Uncommons within *hours* of I19 going live.Quote:Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Funny, cause I have a Blaster who got her Uncommon Alpha by going from Vigilante to Villain, running a Patron arc, and going back to Hero. Unless the aspartame in this Diet Coke I'm drinking is seriously rotting my brain, that trip....didn't involve any of those five tasks.
Clearly this trend of "you still get progress on your Incarnate abilities outside the designated tasks but it's much slower" is a completely new and surprising thing. -
I've noticed that nobody's top three changes seem to include "keep all the current costumes same as they are" or "make sure I can fully recreate any of my existing costumes, even if I'm using very old grandfathered pieces that aren't in the game anymore". Is this because everyone's assuming *of course* they could retain the same costumes, we don't even have to ask for that, or because they are okay with losing some of the old unique looks if it means getting a complete revamp of the CC?
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Awesome, just what I'd want for Gale!
Took me a while to pick a costume for this, but I think her Midnighter outfit would be best. -
Quote:I'm going to try and explain my position as best I can, without sliding into "you can't POSSIBLY like the things I don't like!".Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
You're comparing a body of content enough to get you to level 50 three times over without ever touching the same mission twice, vs. an endgame where you have to repeat the same two tasks how many times?
Soloing in CoH bores me. Even in the newest, shiniest arc that I've never done before, each mission is a dozen fights that all go pretty much the same. The only variety comes from switching characters, and I pretty much have to do so every three or four missions to stave off boredom.
Introducing more people to the team, whether from my SG or a PuG, makes things less predictable and more interesting. Depending on team composition, and on particular moment-to-moment tactics, every fight with the same enemy group on the same map can go completely differently. Sometimes I'm on a team of Defenders and Controllers who roll over everything. Sometimes there's a Scrapper who goes charging off after groups that we missed. There's never a dull moment.
I haven't played a lot of the Trials on Test, but I would make the following observations:
1) Trials have more people. The more people are in a group, the more unpredictability happens, the more fun I have.
2) Trials have a learning curve. I'm pretty much certain to only fail them for a while at first. Eventually both I and the playerbase at large will grow more competent and I will be on raids that succeed, or that achieve bonus objectives.
3) Anyone who participates in Trials will earn rewards, so as I go along, I will start seeing more people with Judgement attacks, Lore pats and Destiny buffs, in addition to earning them myself.
So, from this I draw a conclusion that every BAF Trial I'm on will be different from others in ways that make it interesting to me. Maybe not "Bonefire Plot vs World Wide Red" different, but at least "Ubelmann the Unknown vs Path of the Dark" different. This is just a provisional conclusion, but that's why I'm cautiously optimistic. -
Quote:I think it's a perfectly valid comparison - the same fight mechanics over and over with different stories vs. new mechanics to learn and master while re-treading the same tiny bit of story. Depending on what you like, one or the other can feel like an endless grind.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
It's not a valid comparison, however, as these mission still tell vastly different stories, many of which are good. If I had a wide selection of Incarnate stories that didn't feel like a form letter with faction names swapped and actually forwarded the story, that would be much less of a grind. But that would also be a much higher investment.
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I'm not going to decide whether Incarnate Trials are a grind just yet. Sure, "run two Trials about 50 times each" sounds like a grind, but you could also describe levelling to 50 as "run about 2000 instanced maps of 5 different kinds", which also sounds like a grind. Ask me about a month after I20 launches if I'm completely tired of the Incarnate system yet, then I'll be able to give you a fair assessment of whether it feels grindy to me or not.
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Quote:It's not good science to declare "I am doing an experiment to prove that X works in Y way", and then only post the results if the experiment shows X working in Y way.Originally Posted by Berzerker_NA
Basically I've spent a total of about 5 million inf so far, and made 54,000 inf back. So the experiment is not going well. If something changes, I am taking screenshots now and I'll start posting them, but right now it just doesn't seem to be worth the effort. Why do all that just to document a failure?
Science works by going "I am doing an experiment to find out if X works in Y way", and then publishing the results either way. If the experiment is well-designed, then regardless of the outcome you always have valuable new data on X. -
Quote:No it isn't.Originally Posted by Cinkidd
I see common salvage going for 100k inf and that is just crazy. That is like making a loaf of bread cost a $100 in real life.
1) You need bread to live. You don't need common salvage to live, and you don't even *need* it in the context of the game. So it's more like having the newest Apple gadget cost $100 in RL.
2) 100k may seem like "a lot" compared to vendor prices for common salvage, but at level 50, you make about 2 million inf per hour just running normal missions.
3) In RL, the government doesn't regulate "bread can only be sold for $2 at most" - every time someone's tried that, and bread cost more than $2 to produce, the result was that nobody produced bread and there was no bread to buy. In most capitalist countries, the government regulates the value of money instead, making sure there isn't too much of it in circulation.
In this game, inf is magically produced every time you defeat a bad guy or sell something to an NPC vendor. The only way for the price of something to go down is if there's more of that item than people need. In other words, if you think a piece of common salvage is too expensive, roll AE tickets and make a bunch of it, then put it on the market. You get tons of inf, and you help lower prices.
If I want to get a character to level 50 in this game, I have to fight bad guys and earn XP. If fighting bad guys feels like "work" to me, but I really want a level 50, then I'll have to "work" for it. Same thing for inf.Quote:I know some people with say "Play the market, you can make money that way." or "Run AE missions use your tickets to buy rare salvage and sell it, you'll make a billion real fast." really? Is that what this game should be, work? I want to have fun, I want to feel like I'm advancing and I want to feel powerful, but I don't want it to start feeling like work. -
Quote:There's no overkill, there's just "go" and "sb plz".Originally Posted by Snow Globe
The overkill is wonderful, isn't it?
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Quote:Here's my take on Echo. I wanted to add the piece of wall she was holding up, but it wouldn't cone out right and it was taking me too long anyway.Originally Posted by EchoSoKar
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Quote:You could go to a tailor, save your Mutant's current "robotic" costume, then create a second character on the same server, a Technology-origin Dual Pistols Blaster using that costume. Then go back in the tailor and change your Mutant's costume to something more mutant-looking.Originally Posted by Ethyn
Is it possible as a Mutant based energy blaster, to re-roll into a technology based dual pistol blaster? I ask because my character would fit much better with dual pistols than mutant energy as I look like a robot.
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My main, whose build is carefully crafted and filled with the best IOs, who has the tier4 Alpha and will eventually have all-purple Incarnate powers, still has Group Fly. Because to me, floating and glowing and little motes of light that make everyone *else* fly are what defines an Incarnate of Wind.
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Quote:Sure thing.Originally Posted by DemonCaller
Awwww, she's adorable...may I credit you and put her on my DA account as well? (I'm Mellissandria there.) It's where I keep my gallery (such as it is)..
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Quote:I'd just like to note that none of options 1-4 result in a forum post.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Really, you have about 4 or 5 options in regards to dealing with the Incarnate content.
1) Dive into it and play what is offered as you see fit.
2) Completely ignore it and keep doing the things you've been enjoying so far.
3) Play a little bit of it and continue doing other stuff as well.
4) Take a break or quit altogether because you don't like it.
5) Come to the forums and complain bitterly to anyone who will listen that the devs are wasting their time and ruining the game, because they decided to focus on something you don't personally like.
Judging by the content of recent threads on the subject, it's pretty clear what the most popular reaction has been so far.... -
Quote:Glad you like it, sorry again about the name confusion.Originally Posted by Navy Spider
Wow, classic Spidey pose; I love it. Don't feel bad about the "ink" thing...I've been called worse.
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I'm in the opposite boat. I never asked for any sort of endgame, but I'm actually quite looking forward to it.
I never really wanted an "endgame". My main was level 50, fully IO'd, I could RP her as being an established, powerful hero, and spend my time levelling alts, chasing down the last few remaining badges, or playing out our RP stories with my SG.
Then, slowly, our SG's RP stories seemed to grind to a halt. We'd meet up, each Saturday, run a TF one of our alts needed (working up to Task Force Commander on a punch of alts, at a liesury pace), then go our separate ways. No more "hey guys I have a new alt I'd like to introduce IC", just "hey guys I have a new alt that needs levelling".
We hoped GR would liven things up again, and we had a slew of Praetorian character ideas, but Praetoria is not a good place to RP in a group. There were four different sides to choose from, and at those early levels, even a few hours of play would put a character two storylines ahead of another. We eneded up mostly soloing through until 20, and only teaming up our characters again in Paragon and the Isles... when they needed XP.
Alignment Merits were the nail in the coffin. Why run a plot when we can team up, run hero Tips, and work towards shiny and valuable Alignment Merits? Oh, that was five tips. This character is full up. Character exits, with weak IC reason, other character comes in. Five more Tips, ooh I have a Morality mission. Yay, shiny merit. Well, that's all for this week, bye guys.
And then the Alpha slot came in. Epic storyarc! We actually got special costumes to dress up in for the "powerful me from the future" mission! We're embarking on a new quest for greater power than ever before! Awesome!
I'm running all those awesome TFs on my main again, and I'm progressing again! Shards are dropping, components are collecting! I'm an Incarnate! Sure, just the first two tiers of the first slot so far, but there is so much awesome ahead!
I19.5 drops... I am there on the first Tuesday, lining up to get my Notice. Level shifted! Next three weeks, I'm there on Tuesday, running the new TF, getting my happy shiny Notice. I get my purple Alpha at the earlier possible time I could get it barring bugs, and celebrate.
After that things slow down a little. Sure, I have other 50s with Alpha... eh. Sure, I have alts, but... eh. I'm mostly wondering when I can get more stuff for my main again.
Then I hear that I20 will not have another Incarnate slot.
It will have another four Incarnate slots.
Joy!
It will require running large-scale raids to unlock the slots. Okay! And running them some more to get new salvage to craft the abilities. Cool! See, Emperor Cole is preparing a massive invasion force that blah blah blah- look, I really don't care. Spare me the backstory, just make with the new shinies. I am going to run these Trials as many times as I need to open up all four slots on my main, and then run them some more and get all four Very Rare abilities. Then I'm going to sit back and celebrate my awesome power for a week or two.
And then? Probably quit the game until the next batch of powers comes around.