ShrikeX

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COMPLAINING ABOUT THE AT AS A WHOLE IS NOT THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD

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Like it or not, Doms are the way they are. Don't like it? Shut up and play a different AT. What we are here for, what this Thread is here for, is to pay attention to the changes Issue 7 is implementing. If you want to endlessly debate the pro's and cons of the AT and how you're not doing enough damage or our controls aren't as long as a controller's has absolutely NOTHING to do with finding bugs in the current changes and/or reporting on how they effect gameplay.

Things are how they are, now shut up and go to RV (assuming it doesn't crash for you -_-') and try out building Domination on a pvp team. Go try PvE and maybe push for 41 to start trying PPP's. But for God's sake do NOT turn this thread into the Domination section, leave it as the "Official Thread for Dominator Changes"

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You will only generate 8 points of domination if you hit the player target in pvp. AS DESIGNED, AAAAAAAAAAA. Why does no one care!?

Got a PM from castle. You will only generate 8 points of domination if you hit the player target in pvp.

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As I have noted many times, most of the people who like doms seem to prefer a solo or small-team playstyle.

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"All lies and jests, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." - Paul Simon

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agreed, I don't know how many times 40 people have to say they play in mostly large teams with their doms.

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The only real change for doms in PvE is the reduction in the timer. The only people I see this as helping are those who solo or play on small teams. On large teams, with MM set up time and the inevitable afks you have with 8 people, the Domination timer is not a problem. Some people advocate that, during team afks, doms should find a minion and beat up on it to keep Domination up. This is both kind of pathetic and, on a big team, dangerous. I personally would kick anyone who attacked mobs while the team was afk on a large team, because with improved mob AI there is always a change of unintended aggro in this situation.

I think that doms need help on large teams, and so I was very disappointed in a change that only helps doms that are constantly attacking -- because doms on a large team are not going to be constantly attacking.

I would prefer to see a change to the acc and duration of holds as mob level increases. As it is now, there is a very sharp drop-off in the duration of holds and their chance to hit with harder mobs. Since a large team on Relentless will generally have +2 and +3 mobs to the highest person on the team, it becomes very difficult for a dom to add much control. When I started my first corr after playing doms for a while, it was really noticable to me how much better the corr soft controls hit and last on harder mobs. The falloff in dom abilities against harder mobs needs to be addressed.

I'm sure some people will reply that they hold higher level mobs just fine, and I'm glad that they are happy with their performance, but really, when you get maybe 10 seconds duration against +2s from an aoe hold that is three-slotted for hold duration with SOs, that's not too hot.

FivefifteenA

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Tip: Don't team with MM's.

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I never ever invite MM's to my team. It might seem trite but their pets are always in the way. whether its blocking a doorway and I can't attack, or somehow Im in front of them and need to run. I just can't deal. Plus all the downtime for resummons and buffs is annoying, its detrimental to domination and fury.

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Then how come we are not all pulling together?

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Because repeatedly waving a "doms suck" banner isn't the way to get people who actually *like* dominators and playing dominators to rally to your side.

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This is the OTHER reason he gets flamed, lol. A lot of us don't actually think Doms suck, we like doms but we all think we need a bit more power.

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And why do you think it is necessary to "flame" someone merely for expressing an opinion that may differ slightly from yours?

FivefifteenA

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you call out, annoy, troll and harrass folks. Its not an opinion we're angry with.

domination only generates 2 ticks of damage if you miss with an assault attack. Is that as intended?

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The problem with the Dominator changes is that, while they may have helped the AT a bit in PvP (and that remains to be seen), they have done nothing really for PvE. Doms need help in PvE because, as they are, they bring less to a large team than any other AT. Doms are OK solo (if you don't mind having to take a long time to kill things, and if you don't mind having to team for most EBs), and they do well in duos and trios, but on a large team doing hard missions, they have several problems. Dom control acc and duration falls off rapidly as mob level increases, so on large teams doing hard missions, where levels will be +2 and +3, dom's already shortened controls (from controller durations) are even shorter -- when they hit. Domination is hard to build and maintain on a large team because of the afks between battles and the time MMs need to set up. A dom's entire secondary is pretty useless on a large team, because the dom's highest damage attacks are melee, and wading into melee with 15 or so mobs is death to the low HP dom.

Now, a couple of builds are OK for specific things. The Plant/ primary is pretty good at control because it has one power -- Seeds -- that is level 8 and can be perma'd pretty quick, and it has Carrion Creepers, which is a very effective control power. High level Fire/ doms with imps slotted out apparently do fairly well at damage. And that's it. One build that is decent at control, and one build that, post-32, is average at damage.

There is a reason why doms are consistently the least-played AT and why dom population falls off even more for higher levels -- it's because doms don't really contribute much to large teams and take forever to solo.

FivefifteenA

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Are you currently testing the changes or is this just your opinion of the changes? This thread is for testing the pve and pvp dominator changes. The above might be better suited in the General AT forum.

I was testing with dom101 and we could not overcome the arachnos boss (spider people things) regen rate solo. Not even with fiery embrace, my ice pet, and domination up. Not a chance. Their regen rate is faster than any EB i've ever fought.

Its funny how we had to beg for this thread. Anyway...
Ice Sword Circle still has a delay (verified)
why would fire sword circle not have the delay but isc would? I hope we don't have to wait another 6 months for the fix (see psy drain).

I personally don't think I could fire off 12 attacks solo on a regular basis (from my secondary) and survive in the break free world of pvp, again because I can't drop toggles consistently anymore (maybe with blaze but not incinerate), and most HERO at's have mez resistance in their APP or otherwise. So I am stuck kiting with the ice slow powers. God forbid those every get changed.... I am trying to test but obviously no luck right now...

dominator's ranged attacks already are 100% that of defenders afaik.

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If toggle dropping was a characters sole chance to be effective, then I think you need to be looking for a bigger problem here.

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"FF is working as intended."

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dominators are also working as intended I suppose then.

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Total Focus does not have a DropToggles attribute. It does have a Disorient, and that can drop toggles.

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Uh...that doesn't explain this, from your list:

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Dominator: Total Focus: 64% for 1 Toggle

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So, is that inaccurate, or is it the Blaster/Tanker versions that have no DropToggle attribute?

Does being disoriented not drop ALL active toggles? I'm asking because I don't know.

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Argh! Blasters, Tankers, Brutes and Stalkers Total focus does not have a Toggle Drop associated with it (aside from the Disorient) -- Dominators do. I didn't re-read the entire list and only checked the Blaster version for the quoted post. Sorry.

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We understand, its easy to overlook anyone actually playing a dominator.

Positron:
How do you type with boxing gloves on your hands?

... wrong forum.

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Pos, any word on any changes for Dominators?

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There is a positive change for Dominators in Issue 7.

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Well we've known about the change from Geko and _Castle_ for a few months. Positron could you please give us a hint as to what that change will be?

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Do your henchmen's resists come into play at all?

Say in this example:
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Example: If a Mastermind has 3 Henchmen set to Def/Fol, and he gets hit with a 100 point attack, each Henchman will take 20 points of damage, and he himself will take 40 points. (total of 100 points of damage).

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If the henchs had 10% resists to the damage, would they only take 18 points of damage, instead of 20?

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
what are dom's getting?

Hello again everyone. Time for version 2 of my slightly well thought out ice fire build. Keep in mind that this is all in the perspective of someone with non stop scrapper lock, so if you fear debt at all, don't read below.

Why Ice Control? Ice doesn't do a ton of damage, nor does it have a lot of hard control like mind. It is however a jack of all trades control set and in my opinion has one the best overall value for powers (very few powers I deem as easily skippable). The best cross comparison power set in my mind would be plant as it has many different kinds of soft controls.

Why firey assualt with Ice control? Concept? Who knows. The additional damage that fire gives you (primarily from fiery embrace) combined with the fast recharge times of the powers more than makes up for the lack of damage in the primary.

Heres my rundown of the powers and OPTIMAL slotting for each (this will not match my build exactly)

chillbain: The first ice power. Does ok damage, and does immobilization. I no longer have it, if I needed another single target attack in my attack chain I would use it. Some folks talk about the need for use on bosses, but in my opinion two applications of BOI work just as well. This power does have great uses in PVP against some melee types and also has an ok slow component Slots: 1 Acc, 2-3 Dmg, 1-2 immob

Block of Ice (BOI): Single target hold, moderate damage, accuracy bonus. Take this power as soon as possible. Thing of this like your armor while soloing and in small groups. By the time you hit lvl 30 and have hasten you should be able to lock down at least 5 minions and or lts.

Frostbite: Terrible, just terrible. If you are new to dominators this would seem tempting as it is aoe damage, but the damage is negligible. It also has an accuracy penalty. Never open a fight with an aoe immob.. This power is extremely skippable. If you need an immobolize go with the single target one. (no slotting advice, DON'T TAKE IT!)

Arctic Air: This power should not be skipped, but it is absolute endurance hog. It has a slow component, a confuse component and a semi fear component (mobs want out of the radius of the power). All of these combined make an excellent damage mitigation tool for yourself and anyone else in melee with your. With 3 end modifiers and 3 slotted double green stamina I am still having stamina problems (which could probably be solved with consume). Its not easy to skip until 24 when you get your first respec. For PVE slot it 3 confuse 3 end mods. For PVP I would go 2 confuse 1 slow and 3 end mods.

Shiver: Cone slow. Medium recharge. I so love this power. I don't use it a lot while soloing but when fighting very high level mobs in large groups its fantastic. This power cannot be skipped if you are going to pvp at all. This power is the absolute bane to all scrappers and tanks. Slot this with 2 acc and 2-3 slows

Ice Slick: Yay everyone will love you for this power. When you are looking for teams let folks know you have ice patch and they'll be more likely to pick ya up. Its got a big old radius and knocks folks down. They can still attack you though, just not as much. The best part about this power is being able to hide behind a wall and move the targetted aoe circle around the corner, that way you don't take the alpha. Slot it for 3 recharges.

Flash Freeze: A targetted sleep with minor damage. A great power for soloing if you are willing to invest slots in it. A meh power for grouping, as attacks on slept enemies will wake them up. The minor damage is a pain as all it does is aggro those it doesn't sleep. 3 ACC's 3 SLEEP durations at least for this power, if you are going to take it.

Glacier: Yay you've made it. Ice gets its AOE hold later than most builds. That makes it a little tricky to slot. Being a dominator the hold time is short, and the recharge is slow. You have to activate this power on the ground near the enemies (it is a PBAOE). I wouldnt skip the power though, its a great OH CRAP button. I have it slotted 2 ACC 3 HOLD 1 Recharge.


Jack Frost: Oh boy a pet! Jack does a little bit of everything, and nothing when you need it! He has an ice blast, chilling embrace (a small pbaoe slow), freezing touch (a melee hold with a damage ticker), Ice sword and Greater Ice Sword. Slotting I stick with 1 acc 3 damage. Anything else is typically overkill. Jack is not a tank. Do not expect Jack to tank. Expect him to work like an ice blaster that your 5 year old cousin is playing. He does however really boost your damage by the time you hit 32 (AND BOY DID YOU NEED IT).
Slot him 2 acc and 3 damage. He doesn't hold very often and his hold usually has a very long duration anyway. It is not really worth slotting.

Fire Assault

Flares: Wow what a crummy power. It takes forever to activate and does minor damage. Keep this in your attack chain early on, and remove it when you get fire blast. Do not add additional slots. I'd give it one Acc. Good for building domination early.

Incinerate: Get it love it use it. It may not look like its doing much, but those are 10 slow ticking numbers over your enemies head. It does high damage and goes off very fast and recharges pretty fast. This is your first PVP toggle dropper. 2 acc 3 damage here. You could get away with 1 acc for PVE only.

Fire Breath: If you skip chillbain you have to take this power (or frostbite), meh. Its a narrow cone does 3 ticks for medium damage. If you can get enemies lined up right it can do so some good damage. Adding range will make it longer. I stick with 2 acc 3 damage. It uses a lot of endurance. Its recharge is pretty slow.

Fire Blast: Pretty good medium damage ranged power. I spam it as much as possible at early levels. It has good distance and has ok accuracy. Doesn't use a lot of endurance and recharges pretty fast. Once you get blaze you will many use this as a pulling tool or to hit runners when BOI isn't up. 1 Acc 3 Damage.

Fiery Embrace: This makes your other fire attacks shine (and increases the damage on your ice powers as well). It has about a 30 second timer where it increases your fire damage, as well as a 10 second timer (maybe 5) where it increases your other damage. This + Domination makes for all sorts of fun. Slot this for three recharge.

Combustion: PABOE medium damage. Does ok damage. The animation time is longer than fire breath and does less damage than fire breath (in a slower amount of time too), it is PBAOE (which is useful if you melee a lot). This power is worth skipping. If you do take it 2 acc and 3 damage.

Consume: Minor Damage PBAOE. I miss this power. With hasten up most of the time and constantly running artic air I run out of endurance a lot. Its a pretty good utility power when you are low on blues. 2 acc and 3 recharge.

Blazing Bolt: Extreme Damage Snipe. It looks so cool. Most people hate their Dom Snipes, I wish I had mine back. Its a great opener after ice slick for a nasty LT. It is also very handy in pvp. It already has a good accuracy bonus, so if you get it slot it 1 acc, 3 damage, 2 interrupt decreases.

Blaze: High short ranged fire blast. It sounds sort of simple doesn't it? Well blaze unslotted does as much damage as a fully slotted fire blast. Slotted 3 damage you will do 170 damage at lvl 39 against an even level con. With Domination up and fiery embrace active you will do close to 300 per hit. The recharge seems to be medium, I would like it up more often. This really is a set defining power, it completes your attack chain and makes you a force to be reckoned with. At lvl 39 I am usually battling lvl 41 mobs so accuracy is important. Best slotting is 2 acc, 3 damage, 1 recharge.
Power Pools etc:

I went the Flight route because Air Superiority is great to use with Incinerate (fast medium damage) at early levels. I will soon be respeccing out of AS, and probably just take hover. Flight is ok but slow, 1 flight speed is good at high levels, at lower levels you will need 1 end reducer. The end consumption seems to scale as you increase your level.

I also have gone the Stamina route. Its hard to use Artic Air without it. It becomes pretty situational if you don't have stamina, its best to think of Artic Air as your armor.

I tried leadership, its worthless skip it if possible.

I also have hasten 3 slotted to recharge my holds and attacks as quickly as possible. I would not play a dominator (save mind as it has many single target mezzes) without hasten.

The key thing to remember about your dominator is to mitigate damage with BOI, Artic Air, and Ice patch, and attack as much as possible with your aoe and single target attacks.
I typically set incinerate or air superiority on auto so what ever Im close to I attack.
You will notice you play very differently solo than you do in a group. In a group you role is to get the soft controls out there, then once thats done, get on the outskirts of the control and build some domination. Your control will act as a great damage mitigation to the team. Be careful not to take too much aggro. Solo post lvl 26 you are a monster, use your single target attacks along with BOI and Artic Air as much as possible. Once you have Jack you are nearly unstoppable, you will be building domination faster than you ever beleived solo.
Finally at the highest level (post blaze) you are mostly unstoppable. I solo on relentless and its honestly mostly boring. The one thing to point out with this build is you will not build up domination as quickly as other builds. This is due to the amount of AOE controls (ice slick, AA, Shiver), and the 3 AOE fire attacks. I generally save my domination for the end of a mission rather than trying to build up 2-3 times as I would with mind/energy or grav/psi.

Most important of all, have fun.

I wrote this a while ago and would love to update it but my time is limited. I respecced out of the snipe and am really regretting it. Its a great distanced opener for a nasty lt., and a good precursor to leap into the fray and hit blaze.

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So, I've been reading around the tanker forums, get a grasp on how things will be. And I've stumbled upon a couple of sayings that there will be no more detoggling.

First, I was wondering if this was true.

Second, I was wondering if it was just Brawl, or all of them.

And third, if it is true, I think its a huge problem. The only way I can beat a BRUTE is through detoggling him. And I detoggle him through Brawl. Wait until Unyielding or wahtever hes using goes down, then hit him with IS. All toggles go down, I pummel him to death.

Granted, this is a huge OK for all tanks, because this is your biggest weak point. But its also the way for many AT's to beat you, and they cant without it.

And although tanks damage isnt te best (Aside from SS), it still can kill quite a few AT's, Brute vs. Tank would be tough. But Tanks still can dish out some insane damage with PVP specced.

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Detoggling isn't going away. But, it is being reigned in by a large margin.

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Please don't gimp Dominators anymore. Detoggles is about all we had going for us in PVP. Don't forget us please!

Update here, I picked up Shiver again and man I will never go back. It is fantastic in PVP, great for kiting melee folks, I suggest 2 acc, 2 slow and 2 recharge if possible.

gypsys got it.

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TopDoc, temp powers work off a seperate and entirely different damage scale, shared by all ATs. You can test this by having two of any AT go into Sirens and use the EMP Glove temp power.

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Actually some temp powers are modified by origin (screwy).

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ok there neededs to be an event in Cincinnati Ohio...lol

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WHO DEY

Here is a link to my first attempt at a guide for an Ice / Fire Dominator

Ice / Fire Domination

Edit: This is for issue 6

Howdy folks your friendly neighborhood lvl 34 dominator here to post on how I made it this far and what I feel like are good powers to take. Generally how I played the game. Take from it what you will but don't worry about copying it exactly. This is primarily a PVE guide for folks who like to team with large groups of people. There are some solo points in here as well.

Why Ice Control? Ice does do a ton of damage, nor does it have a lot of hard control like mind. It is however a jack of all trades control set and in my opinion has the best overall value for powers (very few powers I deem as easily skippable).

Why fire assualt with Ice control? Concept? Who knows. The additional damage that fire gives you combined with the fast recharge times of the powers more than makes up for the lack of damage in the primary.

Heres my rundown of the powers and OPTIMAL slotting for each (this will not match my build exactly)

chillbain: The first ice power. Does ok damage, and does immobilization. I no longer have it, if I needed another attack in my attack chain I would use it. Some folks talk about the need for use on bosses, but in my opinion two applications of BOI work just as well. Slots: 1 Acc, 2-3 Dmg, 1 immob

Block of Ice (BOI): Your standard spammable single target hold (STH). Use it all the time, use it when your sleeping, this is your defense powers. Dominators must use active defense to not face plant, and this is your main power for mitigating that. Slotting: 3 Holds, 1 Acc, 2 Recharge (or any combination you like of the prior three) I've found 2 holds and 2 recharge work just find (I also use haste).

Frostbite: Ooooh boy an AOE. Unless you aren't planning to use ice patch all the time, skip this one. It does a little damage, immobilizes in a LARGE aoe, and generally irritates the hell out of your enemies. Ice doesn't have the same synergies that fire has with its AOE immobilize and AOE soft control. Unless you can think of nothing else. Skip it.

Arctic Air: Since ED this has become a shining star. Running it without 3 end red's and stamina is a real pain though. It does slow, makes the mobs want to get away from you (a ghetto fear not slottable), and occasionaly confuses mobs for a short time. The confuse aspect is slottable and definitely has an impact (although youll need to stop dominating and watch to see whats going to notice). This powers is your melee defense when you are not BOI'ing. Running without this power is a pain as their is no incentive for mobs to beat the crap out of you. By level 20 you should have this 6 slotted (3 end reds, then a mixture of slows or confuses). I find that the slow unslotted works great for me. There might be a bit of synergy between this and frostbite as the mobs would stay put and possibly be confused. I have yet to try this.

Shiver: Cone slow. Medium recharge. I respecced out of it. Its a great pvp tool, but I didn't find room for it in my attack chain. 2 slotted with slow it really works well. The problem I have is that one application basically maxes the -recharge effect. And in my opinion against a large number of enemies that doesn't help me much.

Ice Slick: Yay everyone will love you for this power. When you are looking for teams let folks know you have ice patch and they'll be more likely to pick ya up. Its got a big old radius and knocks folks down. They can still attack you though, just not as much. The best part about this power is being able to hide behind a wall and move the targetted aoe circle around the corner, that way you don't take the alpha. Slot it for 3 recharges.

Flash Freeze: A targetted sleep with minor damage. A great power for soloing if you are willing to invest slots in it. A meh power for grouping, as attacks on slept enemies will wake them up. The minor damage is a pain as all it does is aggro those it doesn't sleep. 2 ACC's 3 SLEEP durations at least for this power, if you are going to take it.

Glacier: Yay you've made it. Ice gets its AOE hold later than most builds. That makes it a little tricky to slot. Being a dominator the hold time is short, and the recharge is slow. You have to activate this power on the ground near the enemies (it is a PBAOE). I wouldnt skip the power though, its a great OH CRAP button. I have it slotted 2 ACC 3 HOLD 1 Recharge.

Typing this I realize I may not have pointed out, for targetted AOE's in control land, I always slot 2 Acc's as they receive -acc to make up for being AOE. My single target holds attacks etc are 1 Acc

Jack Frost: Oh boy a pet! Jack does a little bit of everything, and nothing when you need it! He has an ice blast, chilling embrace (a small pbaoe slow), freezing touch (a melee hold with a damage ticker), Ice sword and Greater Ice Sword. Slotting I stick with 1 acc 3 damage. Anything else is typically overkill. Jack is not a tank. Do not expect Jack to tank. Expect him to work like an ice blaster that your 5 year old cousin is playing. He does however really boost your damage by the time you hit 32 (AND BOY DID YOU NEED IT).

Fire Assault

Flares: Wow what a crummy power. It takes forever to activate and does minor damage. Keep this in your attack chain early on, and remove it when you get fire blast. Do not add additional slots. I'd give it one Acc. Good for building domination early (if you have nothing better to do.

Incinerate: Get it love it use it. It may not look like its doing much, but those are 10 slow ticking numbers over your enemies head. It does high damage and goes off very fast and recharges pretty fast. 1 acc 3 damage here.

Fire Breath: If you skip chillbain you have to take this power (or frostbite), meh. Its a narrow cone does 3 ticks for medium damage. If you can get enemies lined up right it can do so some good damage. Adding range will make it longer. I stick with 1 acc 3 damage 1 end red. It uses a lot of endurance. Its recharge is pretty slow

Fire Blast: Pretty good medium damage ranged power. I spam it as much as possible. It has good distance and has ok accuracy. Doesn't use a lot of endurance and recharges pretty fast. 1 Acc 3 Damage.

Fiery Embrace: This makes your other fire attacks shine (and increases the damage on your ice powers as well). It has about a 30 second timer where it increases your fire damage, as well as a 10 second timer (maybe 5) where it increases your other damage. This + Domination makes for all sorts of fun. Slot this for three recharge.

Combustion: PABOE medium damage. Does great damage up close for a pretty good range (as far as PBAOE goes). Does one tick of damage (similar to a Fire Breath single tick), then does 8 ticks similar to Incinerate. This is a great power to use with Ice Patch, AA, and fiery embrace. Optimally slot 2 Acc 3 Damage, 1 End red.

Consume: Minor Damage PBAOE. I had it for a while before I picked up stamina (respecced into it). The damage it does is very low, if you have enough enemies around it really works well but you definitely need ACC enhancements here. The recharge is very slow. I recently respecced out of it. Optimal slotting here is 2 Acc, 2 end recov, 2 recharge.

The last 2 powers I have not gotten yet but am looking forward to. The first is the Fire Snipe, and does extreme damage from a ways a way. I've played a few blasters so theres no suprises in this power. I hear a lot folks not wanting to take it, but Ill take a good alpha power any day of the week.
The last power is a no brainer Blaze. Cant wait to get it, does short ranged, high damage. Ill slot this as much as I can.

Power Pools etc:

I went the Flight route because Air Superiority is great to use with Incinerate (fast medium damage). Flight is ok but slow, I want at least 2 slots, 1 end red and 1 flight speed.

I also have gone the Stamina route. Its hard to use Artic Air without it. It becomes pretty situational if you don't have stamina, its best to think of Artic Air as your armor.

I've recently popped into the leadership pool and am liking it so far. Jack enjoys the damage increase from Assault and so do I. Looking forward to Manuevers and possibly vengance as well (post 40 content).

I also have hasten 3 slotted to recharge my holds and attacks as quickly as possible.

The key thing to remember about your dominator is to mitigate damage with BOI, Artic Air, and Ice patch, and attack as much as possible with your aoe and single target attacks. I typically set incinerate or air superiority on auto so what ever Im close to I attack. You will notice you play very differently solo than you do in a group. In a group you role is to get the soft controls out there, then once thats done, get on the outskirts of the control and build some domination. Your control will act as a great damage mitigation to the team. Be careful not to take too much aggro. Solo post lvl 26 you are a monster, use your single target attacks along with BOI and Artic Air as much as possible. Once you have Jack you are nearly unstoppable, you will be building domination faster than you ever beleived solo.