Semper_Fi

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they get -50 points for making yet *another* fundamental alternation to their game engine without warning.

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Technically, this thread is the warning, since none of this is coming until I7.

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Castle with the 1-2-3 pin!

Can't wait for issue 7!

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We're tweaking with toggle dropping...mostly decreasing its overall effect.

We just received tech that will allow players to pass buffs onto certain powers (such as Blizzard).

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More awesome news! The devs do listen. This is the only MMO I have ever seen involvement like this! This is why I renew without hesistation. Every time i think, "uh oh a nerf," I immediately think of the buffs that i've seen. This is just more proof, of the goodness to come!

<blinks> I hope suprression of travels gets reworked in the next few months.

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It's fixed internally. Should arrive on the test server "Soon" (aka hopefully the patch after next).

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Thanks a ton, Beard! It was no fun missing fleeing baddies on my tanks. Thanks again!! Can't wait for issue 7!

Cheers!

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Some more good news...

Ice Tankers and SR Scrappers have long lamented that Defense doesn't scale with level. Because mobs higher level than a player possess an inherent to hit bonus, Defense isn't as effective over levels as Resistance.

A while ago, peoople have requested something be done. Well, we've done a bunch of work and done this. Defense powers will now work equally well against critters, regardless of their rank or level. For instance, your defense powers will work equally well against a Boss or any critter up to 5 levels higher than you, as it does for an equal level minion. This change has no effect on a player who does not have any Defense.

This change is coming in I7

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Spectacular! Thanks States! I knew something waas in the works. This proves the point: patience is a virtue.

~~~Applause~~~

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First...I confirm that we're working on right now (as in pohsyb in the next room) to add CoV costume parts into CoH if you own both games....

Then we repeal the hated stealth nerf. The reason why: many well reasoned posts. It's that simple. You guys pointed out the problems.

AND now...we're changing the way Archvillains spawn. A ton of forum goers disliked adding so many AV's into missions a while back...so we've come up with a solution. If the team size and mission difficulty are ABOVE a certain level, an Archvillain spawns. Below that, players will face only an Elite Boss. If the mission is set on the first two levels of difficulty, it takes 4 heroes or more to spawn an Arch Villain. On the third level, 3 heroes or more. On the fourth level, 2 heroes. On the highest (Invincible), a solo hero will spawn an AV. Note this works in BOTH City of Heroes and Villains.

In order to incentivize larger teams, Positron is going to add a bonus to AV rewards!

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Absolutely fabulous!! You guys rock! (and yes i've been posting this reply all day, because so many of us doomsay, I'm gonna balance it out with applause).

~~~CHEERS~~~

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they get -50 points for making yet *another* fundamental alternation to their game engine without warning.

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Technically, this thread is the warning, since none of this is coming until I7.

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I want to say: BRAVO to States, Positron, Castle, Beard, Cuppa, and anyone else i missed (at work little time between posts) for listening and the changes. I appreciate the help defense gets, and the av changes. The stealth nerf being taken out, is just awesome. Thanks for listening!! Keep it up!!

I'd like to point out to the people who fear doom, that everything in life is a work in progress, and even though the rollercoaster may have it's downs (nerfs) they are always eclipsed by the ups (buffs). This shows that things have and will continue to improve.

Another update: ill/ff controller running in the 20's and end is a bit tougher, as i run all 3 team bubbles and superior invis all the time. I have yet to consider this a huge issue, as i use end redeucers. I'll be picking up stamina at lvl 24, and i'm sure i won't have any end issues then, as i haven't really so far. all in all, the global end reduction is a huge help. Thanks Devs!

Haven't been able top play much, but am noticing my ene/ene blaster is running dry on end all the time now. He's still pre stamina, as i have that set to pick up at lvl 24. His attack chain is just to draining. I'm beginning to think that blasters could maybe benefit from a reduction on a case by case basis in end cost. The big hitters cost such large amounts of end. more as it unfolds. Oh, yes, both controllers are pre stamina also, and doing good, no real end issues, i run out as noted in previous posts, but i expect to, and it doesn't hurt the flow of play, it's more like, "phew good fight that was a toughie, let me rest a sec," as it should be. Blasters just seem to short out of end after attacking 2-3 baddies. no fun boo! More to come!!

ok just an update: still leveling my blaster ene/ene, and my controllers through the teens (again) and surveying end discount. The blaster is pre-stamina, and with snipe and torrent he's starting to run out of end a bit, less then before the discount, but a bit more than he did 4 levels ago. I used to have his powers slotted for one end reducer, with stamina i don't think i'll have to do this, as i only run out of endurance after fighting 4 or 5 mobs one after another, on teams of 5 or more heroes.

The controllers have no end issues. My i'llusion ff runs superior invis, and keeps bubbles up perma, and still no end issues. Granted i do very little attacking, I'm 100% support, so i run all three team bubbles so far, and superior invis, and i use flash and blind for control. I drop my army when ready. The gravity controller is a bit more challanging as she is grav/rad, and runs toggle debuffs, and uses holds more. Still though, no end issues yet.....

I'll keep updating as i progress!

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I think one of the main problems with the enhancement schedules is that they follow an exponential benefit for improving. Having a single SO is like having FOUR trainings. So you having 3 of this, 2 of that, 1 of that per power would be comparable to 18 training enhancements. That is one of the problems that I see.
Another major problem is how powers stack. If you have one power that gives 20% resistance and you have another power that gives 20% resistance. When you have the second power on, because of how things stack, it is actually reducing the damage you take by 25%. I'll try to explain.
Take an attack that does 100 damage. 20% reduction would be 20 damage less. Currently, the 20% adds directly to the other 20% (40% resistance). If they could change it so that it layers differently, ie power B reduces damage that passed through power A by 20%, they would get different numbers. Players would take 64 in that case instead of 60. Not a huge difference, but noticeable.
They had a major problem when people had 3 or 4 powers that all added significant resistances (hence resist caps, otherwise many sets would be completely immune) which often happened at higher levels.
I will admit, that changing things to layer instead of stack would have taken a significant amount of programming time (changing the actual code, not just a few values) and would take processing time too (muliplication is more intense than addition).
But, if they could have layered them they wouldn't have had to nerf the powers at lower levels. Also, I would have liked them to do something to the effect of enhancements. Take the 8/16/33 and shift it to 10/15/20 or even 8/16/24. Players would still invest the extra for the SOs, but the game wouldn't be as incredibly hard to balance between people 5 slotting damage and 5 slotting other effects.
Now, one of the other major complaints that I had been seeing is the difference between tanks and scrappers. I haven't seen as much at higher levels as I have at lower, but a 10% resist is fairly trivial compared to how much less damage you would take by clearing things out 30% faster (taking an attack power vs a defense at lower level). Especially with tanks and scrappers still have approximately the same health as each other, and about the same as anybody else.
The game is drastically different at higher levels though. When taking another defense power would reduce the damage you take by yet another 20% (if you already have 3 that reduce by 20% another would cut damage by half) and tanks have tremendously more health than anybody else.
From information I've been able to gather for level 50, non-regen scrappers actually heal about 30% more health/second than a controller because they have more health. Tanks heal 40% more health per second than non-regen scrappers because they have that much more health. (Tanks about 85% more than controllers and such).

Now, I will admit that what I've suggested isn't neccessarily the absolute best fix. It doesn't address everything. I will also admit again that it would have been a lot more work than what they had done. But, I still believe it would have been a more beneficial approach towards actual game balance.

Could also be that I missed something in what I was reading of yours too. Thought I had read yours as being pre-SO, but I can't find it in the thread right now.

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Great points all, and i'm still having little issues with my scrapper and blaster both i deleted and remade do see how ed is from a fresh perspective. They're both in the teens now, and end is a bit more challanging on the sr, so it's quite possibly by the 30's i may have end issues, if i wanted to perform close to what i was pre issue 5. If i were to scale back my crazy meter, and perform more reasonably, i may still have no end issues. but so far, no real end issues.

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Actually, I think you've completely missed the complete difference
S.O.
They are still a massive change in effect.
They gutted powersets to avoid addressing the SO problem directly (and to avoid the problem of power interaction)
They created ED to reduce the min-maxing of SO slotting.

The Devs will probably never actually listen to what I've suggested they need to do specifically to fix the problems (can't say at all because I did mention they needed to look at SO to some degree). Training enhancements are a joke. Defense powers at low levels were a joke before I5 (now they're too sad to even laugh at)

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SO, Since I completely missed the point, so you say, inform me. How did they gut, or overlook, or completely avoid problems? How are they not listening specifically to you? In what ways is it worse now than before? In what ways would your suggestions balance to what they need the game to dp? How are you suggestions superior, and how would they get better results?

Not condescending, I'm looking for your answers. As I missed the point, please, fill me in.

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Interesting. I've had the exact opposite experience with my Inv/SS tanker.

She was 44 when ED came and she had all kinds of end problems; I relied heavily on Conserve Power. But then when ED hit and I put end redux SOs everywhere, I found I had so much end that I respecced (1) into adding Tough, which I hadn't had before, and (2) dropped Conserve Power, since I no longer needed it.

I have one end modifier (or whatever they're called now) in all my attacks and all my toggles, and the three in stamina. I will run out of stamina eventually constantly hitting attacks, but it takes quite awhile and in any fight that lasts that long, I usually have a teammate who can give me end in some way.

(Note that I'm not claiming that my tanker is stronger or more enjoyable than before, just that she has a lot more end in my experience and can easily run her Inv toggles.)

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Perhaps the difference lies in the fact that you're a tank (invuln primary) and I'm a scrapper (invuln secondary). I obviously don't know your playstyle, so this is pure conjecture, but a tank can get away with just standing there and taunting if he runs low on end. As a scrapper, I'm constantly attacking. So I go through end at a good pace. And with all those toggles going, it didn't take long for me to fizzle out (with the resulting toggle-drop and higher odds of death at that point). I really had to watch my end to try to avoid the toggle-drops. I also relied heavily on Conserve Power, so I was not thrilled when ED came along and nerfed it--along with my stamina. Respec'ing for ED compliance didn't help. That's why he lives on the shelf now.

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This is a great point, I wonder if sr would have the same problem as it is toggle heavy. I wonder if the later game will impact endurance that badly on sr? So, invuln may have end issues. Any thoughts on how one may over come this, anyone?

No problem, I hadn't seen any attack, just didn't have a particular stance as yet, just reporting what i find so far. I have no ill regard for your post, and didn't think you were coming down on me at all. So far at lower levels, I see little end problems, but we all know later on is where one picks up more toggles so, we shall see.......

As I said i would, in other threads anyhow, I'm updating. I hope devs see this one too...

The claws/sr build i have running, and it's blindly right now as no good guides are up, is starting to run our of end a touch, if i use spin alot. this would be after battling mobs of 8-15 baddies (team size of 7-8) with several bosses, or 3-5 groups of 3 spawn (solo mission or street hunting zero to no bosses). So, hmm. Thoughts: I'm still level 10 only, so end can become a problem at times, but i still have MUCH more than i used to before the end reduction. If i use spin in mob situations only, i'm usually fine. also, i have 4 slots in each attack all with accuracy for now, so i hit probably about 80-90% of the time, if i would estimate.

So, end still not an issue, but i have to be concious of it for the future. I run 1-2 toggles continuously also.

Also, I didn't have a "tune." I was relaying my experiences, as some mentioned not percieving the effect of the end reduction. I can see it, so i gave examples.

This isn't a "tune" per se.

Again, I said on an SR scrapper, at lower levels. As one picks up more toggles, it's understandable. So, I suggest we not try and show eachother how right we are, but post our experiences, and maybe suggestions? That might cut down the thread lengths. The Dev's might have a hard time responding to really lengthy threads.

I suggest a reduction by a per power bases as needed, such as on defensives, for tanks and scrappers notably. They're less effective now, ok. maybe make them cost a touch less if we can. May not be possible with the whole grid that Geko talked about, and how numbers are dropped into it and the system maps it out....

Hmm maybe also, a SLIGHT increase in the effectiveness of stamina as it's just 3 slot, OR a slight increase in the effectiveness of end reducer enhances?

What do you guys suggest?

I'm playing low lvl toons and i don't remember any time i had more endurance. This isn't fan boy time, I do want some things changed, but i did mention to people the other day, My ene/ene blaster and claws/SR scrapper with toggles on didn't run out of endurance. I wnet through like 4 mobs of 3-6 guys with a pal all white and orange to me, and only by the 3rd mob was i running a bit low, so i hit a blue pill. Now, this SEEMS to be not TOO bad, i can solo mobs of 3 guys, white to orange, with toggles on sr, without dying, and without running out of end. I can definetly percive the 13% discount, it feels even higher sometimes. Granted i can't Mash through mobs like nuts before, and i get lower on health, meaning i can die a bit easier. Hmm, this does make it more challanging, and a bit slower. That can be somewhat frustrating, i can see at times. but i DO see the end reduction, and running toggles on an sr scrapper I don't run out of end.