SeCKS_Egai

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When I used to play Star Wars: Jedi Knight 2, no one ever trash talked to me. I don't know if that's still the case, but it was nice back then when it came out.

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It wasn't massive, but it was multiplayer on-line- you didn't have to worry much about people shouting insults or gloating for two main reasons - the pace was too fast, and aside from personal skill levels, all players were on the same level, having access to the same weapons and running around with the same attributes. Just like Counterstrike or Source, even the worst player could kill you when given ample opportunity.

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So much for setting a good example. You can see by the replies of the active pvp'rs they have no desire to treat each other well or encourage other players. Same as always unfortunately. I posted this same sort of thing a few years ago saying that I don't trash talk and I alwayscongratulate those that kill me. Didn't fly. Same sort of odd responses.

I can't comprehend their need to behave in that manner and they can't comprehend my lack of desire to interact with those who behave in that manner.

So, advice. Ignore everything. Turn off all chat. or, As alot of these pvp'rs have done. Go to arena and fight folks you know or are part of the usual arena gang. Those guys generally help players and each other.
I love the zone fights but most of the big jerks hang there.

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Dont get me wrong, I try not to trash talk either, and when some one gets a good kill, as in not three shotting me before I can blink, or TPing me into a phonebooth, I'll congratulate them. Not thats theres anything wrong with someone wiping me out with a BU + Aim salvo, but nothing really to pat them on the back about either.


But the fact is, theres always gonna be people that are [censored], and no post on these forums, as well intentioned as it was, will change that.

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So true.

Since this post was dug up, I figured I'd respond.

I'm nearing my 12th month of subscription time. I both pve and pvp. If it wasn't for pvp, I would have left much much sooner - Why?

Because programmed behavior is predictable.

I've got several 50s, and pvewise, the content is hardly fresh (aside from an occasional issue). My current main has over a billion invested in her, while the rest are all below 300 million each. One of the cheapest had a Master of Statesman's Task Force badge on her second run. My main has run well over 20, and while comming close here and there, has yet to be successful facing untimely teammate deaths.

What's the point? One doesn't need the best gear to accomplish one of the most difficult tasks this game has to offer. With that said, why put the time and effort getting it if its unnecessary?

Without a PvP aspect, there would be no justification for spending so much time and effort getting the best gear possible. In regards to pvp, you want the best edge possible and thus I was able to put the effort towards building my main to my ultimate design. Countless NPCs have fallen by my hand. After hitting 50, all you can really do is repeat the same content in the same game. Why repeat it after the hundredth, two-hundredth time (etc)

Where is the reward to making yourself as strong, as fast, as improved as possible when you're simply doing what you had already been doing? PvP.

Don't get me wrong, a majority of players can enjoy a game a long time purely focusing on pve. However, to really have a thriving economy, pvp is necessary as pvp-focused players have an irreplaceable role. They put in the time and effort casual gamers simply will not do or cannot afford.

As far as the Diablo 2 references, after hitting the level cap, the only reason to play was to get better gear, almost always for pvp purposes. Otherwise it was just rolling another character or variation, but effectively the exact same gameplay.

All in all, I would have to say PvP is in-fact essential to any Large MMO. Pve only goes so far without people to team with. Eliminate PvP, and you're losing subscribers faster than you can replenish them.

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QR

because I can't TOTALLY ignore them. By that, I mean that the cretin who's fouling broadcast is still actually going to be there present in the zone, and probably attacking me. To me, a mute adversarial Player is basically just an EB with extremely good AI and impossible-to-ditch aggro. If the ignore function made me immaterial to them and made them invisible and immaterial to me, then I'd be able to enjoy learning how to PvP in the company of the PvPers who play, fight, win and lose with civility and good-humour.

I wouldn't want to limit the ability to communicate either, Mahogany. I was thinkiong more of an optional thing.

Eco.

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I've put a lot of folks on ignore since I started pvping. I'm in it for the challenge, and when I win yay, when I lose, I learn something (or my machine froze from lag =P). However, while the better players understand that mentality well, lesser players aren't so "pleasant".

I don't talk trash because I hate having to hear it, and almost always it becomes more of a personal nature where the concept of fun disappears. Also, the folks that talk the most trash are merely compensating for their lacking ability when it comes to pvp. Good players recognize other good players in how they fight.

I hate having to put some folks on ignore, but if their attitude and incessant chatter is bad enough, it's done. Believe it or not, there are actually people worth talking to and ignoring all chatter outright takes away from the experience.

Obviously you misunderstood or simply didn't bother to read. Regardless if its not functioning correctly, it would have been high on the priority list to fix if it was game breaking. They've declared it not, (and my original post was meant to illustrate why) so I was merely pointing out there's nothing wrong in hoping for a fix, but don't hold your breath.

My contribution was not meant to be a solution, it would have been fixed long ago if it was a serious problem. For example, if something caused stealth and hide not to stack properly, that would necessitate an immediate bug fix as that would break the game class. Placate not working after being mezzed and popping candy, is not. There are numerous ways to adjust for that. If hide and stealth did not stack, perception powers and buffs could easily overcome one or the other, and a stalker would no longer be able to function effectively at all.

I also did mention what I figured triggered the bug, something you easily shot down without giving it a second thought. So I did in fact contribute something in regards to possibly understanding the problem, you merely didn't want to acknowledge it, assuming it simply could not be the case as if you knew the code yourself.

I was hoping to provide some insight, but anything short of a fix won't be enough to satisfy you. As I'm not one of the dev's and am therefore unable to fix this problem for you, I'll leave you to your thread.

I've been playing for less than 9 months, comming in after i9 a lil before i10. I'd like a better defiance. Has it improved, yes, but not the way I envisioned.

I could complain how I think the new changes aren't quite fitting, or I could complain about this or that...I...I...I.

I however, do not control the game. But I do control whether or not I pay my subscription. If a nerf/change was so detrimental that the enjoyment I once had was no longer, I would discontinue paying for the service.

If placate was essential to the stalker I would very much agree with your case. But I learned to recognize my weaknesses, and adjust tactics accordingly. You claim to have done the same.

As far as pvp goes, stalkers still have the greatest advantage. Placate doesn't make the stalker, the stealth factor does. Tactically, nothing has more survivability than a stalker, as a stalker can pick battles and refrain from engaging overhwhelming odds...observing its prey waiting for the ideal time to strike.

Vet status only goes so far. Some veterans I've met are a pleasure to team with and know exactly what they're doing, while others I've teamed with still have much to learn.

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Let me state the obvious if you will indulge me. This is February of 2008. This thread is nearly a year old. It sits in the "Developers Corner" category of the forums. It appears on the first page of posts consistently but is not "sticky".
Does the absence of any "red named" response mean what I think it does? Have the developers truly ignored this topic for nearly a year?!?

Though I am rarely thankful for moments of ignorance, this is an exception. I am actually glad that I did not read this post before returning to CoV/H. Otherwise I may not have returned at all.

Being a veteran of several other MMO's and having participated in PvP in all of them I am somewhat qualified to say this: The PvP balance in CoH/V is utterly laughable. If there has been any attempt to make PvP in this world balanced, it has failed.
If there is any belief by the developers that it is balanced, that belief is grossly misguided.

This thread which has been here and added to for nearly a year clearly indicates that paying customers are not satisfied.

I can only assume that the developers are simply unaware of the depth of the issue and how many customers that it affects.
Following that train of thought, perhaps we should try a little harder to share our concerns with them. Perhaps the burden of communicating the problem to the developers continues to be ours.

In many aspects, this game is perfect. It's interesting, intelligent and challenging. Balancing the PvP and epic power sets would make it much better.

I am not advocating or condoning that we spam the developers with petitions. However, we certainly have the right and responsibility to make certain that the developers are fully aware of our dissatisfaction with this aspect of their product for which we, the customer, pays at least $180.00 a year.

Nocti Forever,
OpenSorce
TheNocti.com

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PvP balance...

I've played several MMO's in the past, and if there's anything I learned, is that you build differently for pvp than you do pve.

My original main was an elec/elec/elec blaster - the end drain reduction killed her viability in pvp. What was my response? Make another toon!

I run an Ice/Ice/Cold and just hit 400 rep yesterday, and yes, it was without farming for rep. Did I have to sacrifice powers for the sake of pvp? YOU BET. Did I invest a lot into my build? Millions. Can I defeat anyone? Just about. Can I be beat? Of course.

The PvP world is always different from PvE. If I thought it was broken, I wouldn't bother to PvP at all. Could it use rebalancing, sure. But I can think of a few other things that need fixing far before pvp. The majority of folks I meet aren't into PvP at all, and after my experiences, I really can't blame them.

My first MMO toon was a blue twilek in SWG. One on One, he could beat anyone. Lucky for me, the pve build also worked well for that aspect of pvp. However, when in came to general pvp, having to close to melee range could be a problem, especially since I had to sacrifice mobility for survivability. Ranged folks and jedi had the advantages in group pvp - ranged could kite while jedi could run away when their health waned. In trying to rebalance the combat system, they effectively broke the game in their attempt to encourage teamplay. What I could easily solo now could easily kill me.

I eventually moved on to WoW, and built a PvE ice mage. I pvp'd with her anyway, and was very ineffective when compared to other builds. I could have rebuilt her strictly for PvP, but the sacrifices I would make would limit the aspects of Pve I enjoyed most, the AoE.

In CoH, I now have an ice/ice/cold mage that hit 400 rep yesterday without farming. I respec'd her several times, and loaded her with expensive stuff. I know if I had EM, she'd be more effective, but she still is quite adept at taking down foes.

In PvP, you can't expect all builds to do the same. If that were the case, why make them different at all? If I could get the range of a blaster and the protection of a tank, why be anything else?

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Insps are fair game in the AV world.

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any AT could solo an AV with enough inspirations, I'm talking about Soloing them without inspirations, which is what was possible with controllers and scrappers.

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Hmm, I love my candy, but there's a big difference between eb and av - I can solo ebs with candy on my blaster, but not AVs, regen/recov is too high.

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From what I'm reading, placate is apparently not strong enough to you stalkers. I don't know why this is the feeling, at least in pvp terms.

Stalking is all about hit and run tactics - No build can do more damage with a single build period. A single AS will put any squishy in the red, and with the new defiance, there is no huge damage boost in a retaliating attack, and just about any blow will finish the target, short of the victim being quick to hit the green candy.

Stacked cm - requires a team effort of sorts. Not a valid arguement as two stalkers working together can easily drop the targets with teamwork. In huge team battles, a stalker's best tactic is to wait for targets to be engaged then surprise them - again easy to do in skilled hands. I've even had a gank squad tp me and be hit by 3 AS's for the instant kill - very sound tactic. Not only did they retain the ability to escape should they need to, their combined efforts prevented me from being able to react.

Short of designing a heavy perception build (ie dev/tactics), the stealth is more than enough, allowing for a getaway should the strike fail, which is something is common for me to see. Being able to put someone to the brink of death and running away because the situation goes out of your favor? I can't see how that's a valid complaint. Stalkers have the tactical advantage with their combined stealth, and even when breaking through that stealth, it still means the player must be within a certain distance to even see the stalker.

While I gather this bug mentioned seems to be related to status effects and a breakfree negating an otherwise unresistable power, I still do not see justification in it requiring "immediate" change. Stalkers have the tactical advantage, and where AS is unusable, other powers can still be used to similar devastating effect.

From my experience in Stalker's Call, a lot of stalkers like to gloat about their kills to builds defenseless to their tactics, and just as easily whine when their targets are no longer helpless prey. Really the only difference in those situation is that the victims have adapted new tactics to combat the ones the stalker(s) are unwilling to change.

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hahah that last sentence u said hit it right on the money... ive adapted my build many different times for each issue.. and each new goodie the villans get.. but all the villans do is complain instead of adapting...

and as it stands placate is workin as intended.. its just the stupid stalkers fault for standing right next to me when lotus drop goes off.. u guys do realise ur placate does go off once u have dot on u...

either case stalkers have enough goddies to get them out of a hot spot enough for them to be complaining about placate.. which is working

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Simple suggestion for the both of you....

Do a little research before you come in here and complain to us that Placate is "Working as intended"

If you had done your homework, you would have read a post made directly from Castle saying that Placate is *not* working as intended.

Just because you say it is not, does not mean that it isn't...just means you have no clue what you are talking about, and obviously speak from opinions and not fact. Bad thing is, the fact has already been established...then you come in and say the fact is not a fact?

Do your homework before coming in here like you are Mr. Big-shot.

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I hit my 400 rep just yesterday - and being that pvp is slow on my server, the majority of my targets are stalkers. I may not have my own, but I'd say I've got plenty of experience bein on the otherside.

From what I've been seeing, placate isn't workin because its falling under the mezzing category - ie once mezzed cannot be mezzed again for several seconds.

Perhaps I feel like a big shot - but all the ego in the world doesn't compensate for a lousy player. I personally would think myself pretty sad if my ego exceeded my skill level. If you think otherwise, I'd be more than happy to duel on test =)

Whether or not the post by castle or whomever said it was or was not working intended - its obviously not a high priority for numerous reasons. A smart stalker can stack stealth beyond perception caps of most ats - but hey, do the research, one should never take words from the forum as fact. The best stalkers are nearly impossible to kill in pvp - not because of their hp or their damage, but their TACTICS. Stealth is the primary strength of any stalker, and knowing how to use it is what differentiates a mediocre stalker from a great one.

As a blaster, there are plenty of complaints made by numerous players in the community. Did I think it could use some improvement? Of course. But if the problems were that bad, I would have let my blasters collect dust until a fix I deemed adequate came about. Instead I learned how to play compensating for the weaknesses.

If you feel that placate is essential to pve or pvp, you might want to consider playing another AT. I can think of plenty of people that are effective stalkers, and while most may use placate, they also know from experience not to rely on it.

Lastly, since were quoting dev posts and official commentaries, you should also find a post indicating that effectively states that stalkers are a dominant force in pvp, and thus a fix isn't high priority. I believe it was by Castle, but I don't feel the need to spend any more time and effort proving a point that certain folks are unwilling to accept.

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No build can do more damage with a single build period.

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Incorrect. Ice Blasters, pre-buff, were churning out just below Assassin's Strike damage from range in the same amount of time Assassin's Strike requires. Add 12.5% more base damage to that, plus defuriance, and they'll actually exceed the burst damage capabilities of the so-called burst damage Archetype.

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While I gather this bug mentioned seems to be related to status effects and a breakfree negating an otherwise unresistable power, I still do not see justification in it requiring "immediate" change.

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Again, incorrect. Even a simple debuff can nullify Placate's protective abilities. And a mez, even if it's resisted by the target's status protection, will still nullify Placate's protective abilities.

Now, you may indeed see Stalkers as an extremely powerful force, but that's simply because you don't see the amount of work and frustration involved. You only notice them when they stick a sword in your ribs. You don't (and absolutely 100% can't) see them wasting their Build Up seven times before finally being at the right place at the right time to use Assassin's Strike.

While it doesn't require "immediate attention", it should still be higher priority than it is. It's been well over a year that this bug has been public, and still it's gone unfixed.

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QF GADDAMMNDED T

Really, a blaster with either super jump or fly, with aim and buildup just simply has to 'float' around battle hotspots and wait for a stalker to show himself. After that stalker is exposed, blammo. Heck, jump in there and inferno.

The stalker AT is about patience, and as mentioned, wasted buildup. Really, the buildup for stalkers should be on the next attack, not a timer.

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Wasted buildup? That's not really valid, since I've wasted my own just as much whether it be by placate or the stalker running out of range. Perhaps if I was an EM and slotted for range, it might be a different story, but very doubtful considering the speeds SJ and SS cap at. And being that they generally have the usual mez protection, I'm not going to get one in before they run away, which is exactly what I expect a stalker to do. Not because they're cowards, but simply design. Huge burst damage, and being able to choose when and where to strike is what makes them so effective. A good stalker is an excellent escape artist, and will get almost always get away before defeat.

Unless you've got some very strong perception, stalkers get the first strike. If it fails, rarely are they unable to run to safety or hide until they strike again. When they do fall, it's because they attacked when they probably shouldn't have. And as mentioned above, movement is generally enough to keep you safe, but sooner or later, one side or the other will take the risk. For example, I may stand still and bait or the stalker engages a moving target. Neither position is favorable, but neither is waiting endlessly for a fight in a pvp zone.

And as far as damage is concerned, I'm not going to outdamage an AS unless the target is visible and im cycling attacks. But we know that's not how a stalker fights (i hope). I've got around 1400hp, and a single AS takes me down to a sliver, Even with bu+aim, unless I'm running several reds, I can't come close to that damage-And I've got some really expensive stuff under the hood. While my cast times are quick, if hit with an AS, all it takes is another hit to take me down, so there's a delay. Even if phased, bu+aim takes about 2 seconds which is more than enough time to clue a wise stalker to start moving. I could hit it early, but just the same the stalker can simply wait it out.

From what I'm reading, placate is apparently not strong enough to you stalkers. I don't know why this is the feeling, at least in pvp terms.

Stalking is all about hit and run tactics - No build can do more damage with a single build period. A single AS will put any squishy in the red, and with the new defiance, there is no huge damage boost in a retaliating attack, and just about any blow will finish the target, short of the victim being quick to hit the green candy.

Stacked cm - requires a team effort of sorts. Not a valid arguement as two stalkers working together can easily drop the targets with teamwork. In huge team battles, a stalker's best tactic is to wait for targets to be engaged then surprise them - again easy to do in skilled hands. I've even had a gank squad tp me and be hit by 3 AS's for the instant kill - very sound tactic. Not only did they retain the ability to escape should they need to, their combined efforts prevented me from being able to react.

Short of designing a heavy perception build (ie dev/tactics), the stealth is more than enough, allowing for a getaway should the strike fail, which is something is common for me to see. Being able to put someone to the brink of death and running away because the situation goes out of your favor? I can't see how that's a valid complaint. Stalkers have the tactical advantage with their combined stealth, and even when breaking through that stealth, it still means the player must be within a certain distance to even see the stalker.

While I gather this bug mentioned seems to be related to status effects and a breakfree negating an otherwise unresistable power, I still do not see justification in it requiring "immediate" change. Stalkers have the tactical advantage, and where AS is unusable, other powers can still be used to similar devastating effect.

From my experience in Stalker's Call, a lot of stalkers like to gloat about their kills to builds defenseless to their tactics, and just as easily whine when their targets are no longer helpless prey. Really the only difference in those situation is that the victims have adapted new tactics to combat the ones the stalker(s) are unwilling to change.

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You're reading outdated material, first off. There was a thread on here last week basically debunking the theory that blasters were Ranged/Support. It is pretty much the consensus that Blasters due to various unintended effects of game updates or nerfs ended up with some shortcomings.

First the whole "Range as an advantage" issue. This would be true if 9/10 of enemy attacks could somehow be nerfed by us being out of range, but everything in the game deals decent ranged damage now. EVERYTHING.

secondly, the whole "Support" as a secondary, Have you looked at /Fire ? The whole danged set is PBAOE( =melee range) and MELEE!!! The only things in there that are remotely supportive are buildup (FOR MOAR DAMG) and Consume which is pretty much and end buff slapped on a MELEE ATTACK. Ok you can count the root, but does that mean the primaries are support too since they come with aim and a hold? Devices and Energy are the only two secondaries which I would remotely consider as support sets. and they both deal some decent MELEE damage.

Third, When ED hit blasters took a major damage hit. We look like we do alot, but in reality, my thunderous blast can't even take down a group of 4 whites. And it's slotted Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Rec,Rec,Acc (not to mention target drone going)
I suppose I could swap out the Acc for another damage and nerf my percentages for a small dmg boost, or the Devs could Fix blasters so that we deal damage. If I'm going to be OOE for 5-10 sec then i should at least be able to kill 4 whites.

Buffs Are Relative To Archetype. Does it seem like we could have as many DEF and RES buffs as we want on and still not be able to do survive without a controller or tank. I mean I took the medicine line just to try to compensate. How many other archetypes can solo their missions on invince? Sure it's working as intended, but when nearly every other class can solo, what is the point in grouping with a blaster......oh that's right...Damage?

The point is, that the AT description sure, says Ranged/Support, bu it also says "Massive Damage At Range", and I'm not feeling the range or the damage.

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I figure I probably should have left this post buried wherever it was in the list - but I really had to make a reply since you mentioned TB.

I'm fresh meat, got my elec/elec/elec blaster to 50 in around 3 months, so I was never around for ED or the "old days" etc. I learned to play the game just as the invasion was hitting.

Recently I've been playing a stone tank - which is effectively the opposite end of the spectrum - and I can tell you, quite easily that a blaster does damage.

The problem with your TB not killing 4 whites? That's build design, not inherent weakness. Of course, you could also be attacking mobs with high energy resists, dropping your damage considerably.

I can't tell you how many people have been wow'd and/or annoyed when they see a large group of scary lookin mobs, and I just hit my buildup and TB and in one shot they go down. I'm not talking a mere group of whites, I'm talking 10 or more mobs white to red.

To say that range isn't an advantage? Sure, just about everything has some type of ranged attack that keeps me from being untouchable while I float above. But range is exactly what keeps me alive in the large battles - I see what's going on, having a better view than most of the group as I'm in the back blasting away. I'll see if extra aggro is pulled and know within seconds whether the group can handle it or if its time to pull back.

Range isn't always a "pure" advantage, as most of the usual mainstay mobs in the later game have a ranged hold. But I usually have the jump on them and can get my hold off before they begin to activate theirs. Range keeps me out of melee range, something I don't like to stay in too long unless the mobs are held\stunned somehow (whether by me or teammates), or I've just drained all their endurance.

Melee generally do far greater damage than their ranged counterparts. And, if I am fighting at range, if I do pull something onto myself, i'll usually have several options before the mob is close enough to do heavy damage.

The only melee secondary I could fit in my build was shocking grasp, simply for the hold and damage - with stamina being a "required" pool power, hover for general combat mobility, cj for immobilization protecton and acrobatics for the only hold protection available - not much left - grabbed hasten for the speed boost, and ss with a stealth io in cj allows me to stand next to almost anything safely.

But yeah, I would have love to fit those melee for the extra damage. But what good is a 200+ damage attack if I can't use it? I kill quite speedily and do it safely using the tools at my disposal.

I may not use my secondaries, but the ones I have really make my build - I'd even make real use of electric fence after the early levels if I could afford more slots. Build up is a renewing damage usually reserved for my heaviest attacks, like TB. In teams, I've even found usefulness for lightning field - relying on that and an end drain to keep me safe while it wears away at the group around me while my aoes recharge.

You're definitely right that certain secondaries have a melee focus. But we do have a choice, and that secondary plays a major role in how the toon should be played. Some secondaries effectively focus on melee attacks - these builds focus more on the simple principal of killing the mob before it kills you by doing as much damage as possible. Elec has end drain, ice and elec have holds and immobilizations,ice has the "mini" patch, fire and em are really for those who want to rely on the melee ability, and dev is more of a trap setting style, relying on gadgets to buff you and debuff your targets or simply blow them up for the most part.

Sure, there are times where scrappers can outdamage me, single target I'm usually behind the scrapper - but elec really shines with aoe, and not even a spines can kill that many mobs of their equal level or higher in one attack.

And lastly back to the tank - where as my tank excels at defense, it lacks equal if not more so in damage. Vice-Versa, where my blaster excels at damage, careless play can easily result in a faceplant. I can hardly stand to play my tank solo from the delays slowly defeating mobs while my blaster can hop mission to mission in minutes.

I can do invincible on both my tank and blaster - sure the blaster isn't built for ebs and higher - (while a modification could fix that, it hampers the overall build for pve) but those mobs are meant for teams anyway.

In fact, I'm not even sure my tank can handle the EB. Aside from rad and psi, would be completely safe - but would he be able to damage the boss fast enough - not so sure.

I'm sure I've looked at this before, and I'm actually kind of surprised its only 5 pages long or so.

After learning a bit of the game on the way to 50 with my blaster, I felt the urge to hit the other end of the spectrum. Stone overall has the highest survivability (if you want to argue that take your invul/ice/fire against 3 gms or avs and last longer than 3 minutes =) I went with stone.

Being a blaster first, learning to control my own aggro helped me avoid debt badges for a long time - up until rikti raids at least. Understanding the battlefield, taking care not to rush into the heat of battle and aggro a group i didn't see as I went after another happened rarely because the consequence was death and down time. Learning the strengths and limits of your abilities pretty much is the key to survivability in this game.

I too have gone solo for the majority of my tanker's career. All too often the teams I join have a tendency to blast away first, figure out what went wrong later. It gets very frustrating when you're already at aggro cap and a squishy decides to pull 10+ more they can't handle and I can't get.

But after being on both ends of the spectrum, I must say taunt should never be considered a requirement since skilled team players can manage without it for the most part. After all, there are teams that get by tankerless just fine, and i've been on a few that did better than with their tanked counterparts simply because of the level of skill.

I don't mind protecting my team, but I can do only so much to protect those who can't protect themselves.

Teaming and you v1 by SeCKS Egai

Since I’m currently evacuated because of the Fires in Southern California and unable to access the game directly, I figured I’d make a guide from what I’ve learned during my time in CoH.

Have you ever wanted to start a team but not know where to begin?
Have you been just a short ways from leveling only to join a group and double (or more) your time to level?
Have you ever been in a group that wiped frequently?
Have you ever had people quit only for them to form a team without you (or done that to others?)
Ever grouped with someone or been someone that died constantly?
Have you ever been kicked from a group?

Aside from getting kicked from a group, I’ve been in all of these situations at least once, usually several times over. As a power gamer, I was somewhat familiar with the protocols, but I had quite a bit to learn. It is my hope, that I can help improve both your and my gaming experience by providing this guide.

When I first started, I had so much to learn, and preferred joining groups than actually forming them. The reasoning for this is because the typical mmo rules all apply. And while that’s one of the many things that finally drew me in to CoH, I knew I had so much to learn and the last thing I wanted to do was try to lead when I had no real idea of where to begin.

Since that time, I’ve learned quite a bit, and it gets so frustrating for me when I get on a team where the leader is unwilling to listen to experience because of pride, whether it because they’ve played other mmos or simply because they have to be in control.

Lesson 1 – No matter how much experience you have, listen to others in the team. Just because you’re level 20, don’t ignore that level 5. You may know to play WoW or whatever MMO and have an “uber” character there, but it doesn’t mean you know your way around CoH. While tactics you learn in other games can really help you in CoH, not all of them apply – until you know do your best not to assume.

Let me provide my biggest example. Most people are familiar with the tank role – but I find often so many people make too many assumptions. In CoH, the 4 main defensive powersets (soon to be 5) are currently Invulnerability, Stone, Fire, and Ice. Now as a tank, yes, they are designed to be the target, taking the brunt of the pain so the rest of the team can dish it out. That’s no different from any typical mmo out there.

But what people fail to understand, especially at the lower levels, is the limitations.

While its obvious that the 4 current types are different, most people forget that just like all archetypes have strengths and weaknesses, so do powersets. I used to wonder why an Ice tank I teamed with didn’t herd. It wasn’t until I looked at the numbers did I finally see why. Damage mitigation is different for each defensive powerset, and each is stronger suited for certain damage while a great deal weaker for others, at least until the big 32 power.

So in the terms of ice, the primary damage mitigation is reducing how often mobs near tank attack. But aside from amazing cold defenses and resists, resists are other defenses are far more limited. And with their being a cap on just how many mobs can be affected by any power, you lose the damage mitigation ice would otherwise be afforded.

A tank is designed primarily to take damage – but if the tank isn’t equipped to handle the mob damage type, they can ultimately become a squishy with a self heal and more hit points with an inherent taunt.

Again, there are so many things to mention in this area, but suffice it to say, its very important to know your strengths and weaknesses. But also, do your best to be aware of those you team with.

Now Statesman implemented archetypes so everyone would have a better idea of their role. Now while I would love to be able to mix and match all the available powersets, having archetypes really plays a major role in who AND how you team.

You can theoretically have a team of 8 of any one archetype, but overall that will do more harm than good. The archetypes are designed to supplement each other, making up for holes in other archetypes so to speak.

One of the coolest things I’ve liked about this game is you don’t always need a tank. A scrapper with invincibility or some other taunt can stand in, or a controller can hold’em in place and everyone can split aggo amongst themselves, etc.

I also love the fact that healers aren’t needed for most teams, and on the best teams healers will be far more focused on buffs and holds or extra damage because the heals are hardly needed if at all. A good bubbler can replace a healer in most situations as well, as the damage mitigated by the bubbles can negate the need of healing entirely for most teaming instances.

Empathy is your main healer in the game, available only to controllers and defenders (hero side). Rad is more of a support healer, while they really shine in debuffs, something you will find very useful when taking on ArchVillains. Trollers with Pets can also help mitigate damage, as their pets can keep a target occupied, just remember they can’t be controlled and sometimes can grab some additional mobs (adds) that you may or may not be prepared for.

Blasters are my personal favorite – a good blaster is a great addition to any team – a bad blaster can lead a team to tons of debt. Aggro control is very simplified in CoH – if you plan on blasting, learn how it works, and be weary of how taunt caps- you can suddenly pull several baddies towards you from a single shot because the tank has a large herd going.

I’ll stop myself there, as going over every archetype and power goes well beyond the scope of this guide. I’ll revise it as I go along.

But to quickly summarize, simply know your role and purpose in the group. If you’re a blaster, no matter what damage mitigation ability you use, you are not a tank. I don’t care how many millions you spend on IOs, you will simply die more often than not playing a blaster archetype. (Ironically enough, one of my favorite blasters on my server likes to play the tank mage role – he goes down quite a bit, but he sure is fun to watch).

And likewise, if you’re a tank – tank! While I’ve met plenty of tanks of various strengths and abilities, there is one that comes to mind as being a total waste of time teaming with. The last time I was in a group where they picked him up, he disappeared while the rest of us were left to fight, just 4 squishies. He continued to complain about Xp and finally came back, stating he was off getting glowies.

Finally, general courtesy.

I’m sure I’ll be revising this part, since I know I’ll miss things here. But first thing is send a tell. Blind invites really aren’t welcome for most players, and it’s a lot easier to take the time to send a tell. A lot of regular players will deny you outright. Sure, if you send a tell you may get a decline or no response, but its far more appreciated by the community as a whole.

Ripping people off is also a definite no no, and I’ve been scammed in the past in previous games. Now why I understand the desire to become richer and powerful – ripping people off, whether it be stealing an expensive io from someone wanting to transfer or raiding the supply of an sg does you no good in the long run. Having a quality sg can be hard to come by, and any sg worth raiding is worth staying in – non set ios will not make you much money in the long run and any sg that has nice ios available are generally veteran players that are great to team with. I don’t care how uber your build is or what IOs you have, there’s not much fun to be had when no one wants to team with you.

If you’re joining a tf or trial, be sure you’re able to invest some time – they are far more time-consuming and quitting mid trial/tf can prevent teams from completing – wasting EVERYONE’s time.

Simply put, don’t make people angry needlessly. Be good to others and most in turn will be good to you. Stay away from those you learn do not, and your gaming experience will be far more enjoyable.