Scarlet Shocker

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Not sure if this is a good or a bad thing or not

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It's a thing

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Seriously, if they wanted to go for Linden Labs then why didnt they? Why NCsoft?

As i said, this could have more serious implications than just MMO's.... and IF Worlds.com win ANY part of this, then i think we *could* probably see more Gaming Companies suing each other for "games that looks the same"...

I place my bet on David Brabham suing CCP saying that Elite is "prior" art (although granted Elite doesnt have online play.... yet)

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Put simply, I'm betting that LL has a good deal more money than NCSoft. Thus, it's tougher to sue them, cuz they get bigger, more expensive lawyers. But, if world.com can win against the "small fry" they then can say "we have this case" and move forward. It becomes a lot harder to defend against somebody who's already won one case.

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FYI, he isnt the only one to say that I13 is a good start, I have said it before and so have some others.

Unfortunately, some PVPers seem to go temporarily blind when it comes to other people not agreeing that I13 is all doom and gloom and that "everyone" hates it.

It IS a good start, putting things back to before I13 just means its still as knackered as it was.

I welcome the changes and will doubtless get bawled out by the same few people who refuse to accept it and have a go at anyone who dares to disagree with them.

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ok this is fair comment. I tend to agree about the "blindness" aspect. There is a sense that "all change is terrible"

I'm not bawling you out but I would really like you to comment about why you think I13 changes are an improvement. That is something I really want to understand.

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Strangely enough though (and i would hate to point this out), but in theory this doesnt just include MMO's...

It *could* be applied to all games with the facility to play online (ie FPS shooters, RTS games), due to the same basic structure.

Which, strangely enough, means that i think that the whole gaming industry would *love* to join in on...

And if Worlds.com ARENT smart enough to have picked up on that one... well then to be honest, i dont think they have the brains to win this one

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I looked at the Worlds.com website and I'm thinking this is more of a poke at Linden Labs than NCSoft but they can't afford to do it so overtly.

I am with the majority here: No to the Suggestion

RP, Game & Badge reasons all work fine as is. I'm sorry if you feel impinged upon by power levelling and farming, but as has been pointed out it's not a massive problem and you can ignore many people easily enough.

a couple of brave attempts but no luck on both runs we attempted this time. we'll be up for it again soon, so get your name down for the New Year

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25 world's strangest laws

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Some draconian laws here. I suspect if Item 14 was enacted on these forums there would be a severe reduction in posters.

To get back on topic, without being any form of specialist in patent law, it seems that patents are the nadir of capitalism. When one is able to "patent" a gene (that every single human being has) it's clearly ridiculous - but in some places it's even worse - in Japan for example, it's possible to patent an idea.

The net effect is that most corporations involved in any kind of R&D have a bucketload of patents and the waters get very murky. It will be plaintiff's job to prove infringement and not mere coincidence. I don't think NCSoft need to be too worried, especially if they bring on any other virtual world developers who can then bring their financial might to bear. Often these things turn into a wallet waving contest that fizzles out.

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issue 13 attempted to make PvP more accessable to casual pvpers. It's actually not that bad if you like a dumbed down experience. Its the hardcore who are complaining about it.

But casual PvPers are just that, casual. They don't PvP very often. It's the people who PvP regualy who will actually quit the game if the system isn't right, those are the people PvP needs to cater for as it's core market.

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Your'e wrong on 2 counts. I'm not "hardcore" and I'm complaining about the changes in I13.

And the hardcore have not quit. Tho I suspect they might if something doesn't get done.

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Fix PVP for the Casual PVPer.

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Why? Casual PvPers have lots of other stuff they can do in game.

It's the hard core PvPers, who would rather be doing PvP than anything else, who the game has to be fixed for.

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Because some of us (and I speak as a casual PVPer) actually enjoy it. You might not. You have that prerogative. So you can still choose to not PVP. But I don't want a half-baked system that gets progressively worse. I want a system where more participans enjoy it, not less.

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Well I have to disagree with some of what you said, Scarlet. In particular, I feel issue 13 is a step in the right direction.

For what its worth, this is what would tempt me:

1. Arena option "Disable invetion bonuses". That means I can have a cheap PvP second build without fartarsing about farmiing to be viable. This is a fairly straightforward intervention.

2. Phase Shift. (and other escape powers). Nerf them to the point of complete uselessness please.

3. Offensive Toggles. Make me laugh. Now you these get detoggled every 3 or 4 seconds it makes things like radiation infection useless. Supress them, dont detoggle.

4. Buff the effects of AoE powers by 50% stat.

5. Buff the effects of placable AoEs by 100%

6. PVP community attitude replacement.

There, that lot will help.

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Ok well thanks for the comments. I've got to say you're the first person to say that I'm aware of, that I13 is a good start.

I think your option 1 doesn't then mean you can be the best you can be. It's ok from a skill POV... but you reduce the build to SOs.

I've not experiened "escape toggles" as a huge thing (to my knowledge) but if it's in PVE, then shouldn't it be in PVP?

3) Agreed.

4 & 5) why? you've not explained that.

6) unworthy of comment. I think to be fair the PVP "community" have not been heard and so their "attitude" is fairly understandable. They pay their subs like everyone else and their percentage of teh game gets less love than most - and when it gets attention they feel it's negative, rather than beneficial.

I'd add to that that since I got into PVP in about I7, the whole thing's got worse from my own experience, not better until it's now dead on its feet.

I'm up fro it. I've only ever done one

Ok I'm posting this here for 2 principal reasons:

1) The PVP section of this forum is a graveyard and only Hard Core PVPers go there. I hope this thread can be more inclusive of the wider community than that.

2) There is a small (but vocal) section of the community for whom PVP is the main reason to play CoX. There is a small section who "never PVP" (they claim) but in between there I believe there is a large (but generally silent) majority who get a lot of fun from PVP but are either not so into it they necessarily know the numbers or aren't that bothered that it gets "Broken"


Here is my basic premise, and the reason fro posting this: The PVP system in CoX is pretty broken now, especially in light of I13 changes. At least that is my own interpretation - from my own experiences in PVP (I am mostly an Arena PVPer) and from posts here, and discussions with other people who play.

The Problem: I13 tried to bring balance to a system where balance is a) almost impossible and b) more than undesirable. With the changes the Devs made they took a fundamentally flawed concept and tried to make the environment fit it. I'm not going to point blame at any single individual but collectively I believe they dropped the ball badly with this. I was prepared to give them a go but the proof of the pudding is in the proverbial eating and this one is badly undercooked and made with rotten eggs.

I believe it is unreasonable to expect, for example, a Defender to be able to beat a Scrapper if all other parameters are equal. Player skill should be the primary definition of the outcome, with build being a close second. In other word a great player on a [censored] build should be able to beat an average player on an excellent build. When I get beaten I want to know that I've been beaten by somebody with more skill than me and someone who has worked hard to get their toon to be of a suitable standard. Yes, I get beaten a lot. But I shouldn't get beaten by somebody with a similar skill level to me, when I'm playing my uber-slotted blaster and they are on a Defender with SOs.

My remedy for a Fix:

First, roll back I13 PVP changes. At least I12 worked, if not great. (But I sadly doubt this will happen for fear of a massive loss of Devs face.)

Secondly, then implement the following: Buff the primary characteristic of the AT. Blasters do kick@$$ damage. So let them do that. But a Defender can defend, a tank is exactly what it says. Maybe a defender cannot solo well in PVP. But then, why should they? A Defender can't solo well in PVE either. If you want a damage toon then choose something else. But give a Defender a massive role in Team PVP.

Third, I believe that it's overcomplicating things to have "Zone" and "Arena" PVP with different rule sets. Even with dual builds, that means you have a build missing unless you're dedicating yourself to PVP. There should be a single rule, end of.

Fourth: CoX lends itself to Team PVP more than Solo. I would much rather see Dev time dedicated to making PVP more accessible to the part-time PVPer which will then have a knock on effect - the better PVP is for more people the more fun it becomes. THAT will bring in people who enjoy PVP in other games. Win/Win.

Fifth: PVP Server Environment Server: Give us a server with PVP all over (yes I know it would need work) and also remove the need for anyone who is really anti-PVP to go into the zones on the PVE servers. (ie exploration badges etc.) Yes, if you're a badge-wossname, then you might miss out unless you bite the bullet but some sacrifices have to be made.

Sixth: A Dedicated PVP Champion amongst the Devs. Somebody who will have as a major part of their brief the PVP community.

Those are my suggestions. Maybe not all entirely original, some I've gleaned from others and added my own take - but this isn't to plagiarise, it's to get a discussion going. I'm sure there are plenty of other good discussions to be had, so let's have them and see if we can finally get those with the reins in their hands to take notice!

Defenders would be good. We've got good tank/damage and holds... extra balance would be welcome

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Ill do the table whos goin then :P

1)Scarlet Shocker lvl 50 blaster [fixed]
2)DevourX lvl 50 Controller <- ME
3)Pangaea - lvl 50 Tank
4)Dark Spider 50 scrapper
5)Rocktroll - 50 Ill Rad troller
6)
7)
8)

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Lord Stone in reserve I think. and Deuteron/Pangaea to be flexible depending on need/team balance

Ok going for the MoSTF tonight from 8pm.

Indie Port... be there or be a right-angled parallelogram

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You know you have to craft 14 level 45 ones and 14 level 50 ones right?

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I do now but I have no idea what I've actually crafted so far. How can I tell where I'm at?

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New Years Day photos! \o/
...probably best to make it in the evening so people have a chance to recover from 'celebrating'.

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I rarely, if ever, take pictures in the afternoon without a hangover I'll have you know

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I'll be around! depending on time and so on

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Same Bat Time, Same Bat Server

Some of you couldn't make it for the Boxing Day pics and I've had a couple of requests to run them again

Not sure if anyone's up for it but if there are sufficient I can make it happen. If we do it, same as the xmas pics.

Cheers

I don't think this game has too many "total PVPers" as a percentage of teh total - in fact I don't think I'd like to even try to calculate that.

However PVP is an important element of the game to a significant number of people - both dedicated and casual. You only had to look at Friday Night Fight Club which usually generated a crowd of 10 - 15 players a pop, very few who had "uber-PVP builds" but were there just for the hell of it. Not always the same people either, whihc is perhaps the most significant statistic there.

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It does seem a bit badly designed if you 'just' need 5 corrupters.

Then again I did the STF and wasn't too pleased to find Recluse two shotted willpower tanks. What's the point in putting a fight so rediculously out of whack with the ones before it?

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The Bruce Lee school of the boss fight.

There was speculation around the time I first joined about CoH2 - but that came to naught.

I think I also read relatively recently that the existing CoX engine had many more capabilities that we've currently seen but they didn't want to upgrade it too much for fear of losing those who play with relatively low spec machines.

That would tend to contradict this article I believe because I think the Crysis engine is too much for many lower end machines.

But we also know that Matt Miller likes to give us left-field leads that whilst not exactly misleading are not what we normally read into things. So, maybe he has been speaking to Massively (who do seem to have good links to NCNorCal) and they have inferred something

That said it's unlikely to be a rumour published without Positron's knowledge. So I would guestimate that we're in for something shiny in the GFX department ere long. Probably somewhere between article and here.

There you go guys

Thanks to everyone who took part and enjoy this small memento of Xmas 08

Happy New Year to all of you

And here's the crop from Union:

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Union 9

Ok here are the pics:

Here's the crop from Defiant

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