Samuel_Tow
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Quote:Since I can't quote the quote (easily) I'll quote your mention of it.Originally Posted by Calash
There is also an interesting quote about the Dream Doctor being related to Rularuu in some form. Can't find it at the moment, being at work behind a scary firewall.
Here's something interesting, both about the name of the Dream Doctor and about the things he says. He talks about the dreamspace, and shaving a piece off himself, not unlike how an aspect can be shaved off the whole and lead to madness, if we buy into that theory. But the thing is, it makes sense. If we believe that Rularuu is trapped within his own mind, a master of dreams would be the perfect man to do this. And, really, what prison can hold a ravager of dimensions with such cosmic powers, but the prison of his own mind, where his own power is keeping him trapped?
It makes sense to me, at least. -
Quote:Why do these things always come to Earth to try and consume the universe? Is this some kind of "If Mohammed can't go to the mountain, the mountain will come to Mohhamed." thing where because humans can't travel through space and go to where evil occurs, evil has to come to Earth so it can be beaten? Why not pop into the middle of empty space and consume the dimension from there? Or if you need a planet, why not show up on an uninhabited one? Rularuu certainly doesn't strike me as someone who needs sunlight and air to survive (begging the question why those are present in the Shard, but that's besides the point).Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Sometime in the 1960's, Rularuu, who eats dimensions, enters the CoX prime dimension with intent to eat it. Before he can get a proper start, he is banished by the Midnight Squad. The place they banish him to is the Shadow Shard, a "prison dimension". At this time, the Shadow Shard is not yet blown to pieces. Along with Rularuu, the Midnighters also send a number of hapless civilians to the Shadow Shard. These become the first Shard Natives. Everyone is surprisingly cool with this, possibly because the Midnighters kept it on the down-low.
Here's the thing, though - a lot of what the reflections and aspects say and, in turn, what the natives have picked up, is figurative and symbolic. We know that the different aspects are aspects of the whole that is Rularuu, but we don't have a good idea as to whether Rularuu himself split up, whether he created these things in addition to himself, or whether the whole thing is one huge hive mind thinking itself in circles. Given how they look and talk, it's easy to assume they're different people, all slaves to the 100-foot-tall guy, but there's something Faatim says - "I am Rularuu." He doesn't say "an aspect of," doesn't say "a slave of," he says he plain and simple IS Rularuu, as are all the other aspects.Quote:Rularuu divided into several aspects to administer his prison, because this is always a great plan. Most notable of these were Ruladak, the Natives' taskmaster; Faathim, who tended to their needs; and Lanaru, who was Rularuu's executioner. Both Faathim and Lanaru strayed away from Rularuu's control: Faathim created the impervious Chantry within which he was able to hide from Rularuu's will, while Lanaru created the Storm Palace and was driven insane by his servitude to Rularuu.
Did Rularuu, then, split himself up into his different aspects like a cut-price MegaMan boss, or are we just getting to see the different aspects that make up his full being? There was some talk years ago of the aspects actually been creatures from the dimensions Rularuu has taken, enslaved to serve as his aspects, but again Faatim seems to contradict this. In a sense, it seems to me that, like Maros can see all of the timeline at once, rather than just one specific moment, so all of the aspects ARE Rularuu, and their struggle represents the turmoil that goes on in his own head.
Certainly if we look at this as symbolism (and I hate symbolism, but "in the mind of a god..."), kindness attempted to do something good, but rage rose up and stopped it. And at this battle, madness finally rebelled, unable and unwilling to exist with such conflict and oppression. In finally attaining full power, madness shattered the world, and now the aspects exist almost separate of each other. In a sense, it's almost as if a conflict of emotions gives birth to madness, and madness then destroys the mind.
You win!Quote:Let it never be forgotten: the man has giant brass balls. Possibly literally. 
It could be both. It's possible the Midnighter Club just picked some strange dimension that could contain him, locked him up in there and he's been altering it ever since. However, since he consumes dimensions, either this one has to be VERY special to prevent him from either travelling out or consuming it, or it's more likely that he is somehow himself inhibited from doing so. Enter the Aspects of Rularuu. What broke the world? Madness fighting against Rularuu. What sealed strength? Kindness, acting against will. It is quite possible that what's keeping Rularuu sealed is keeping him separate, confused between his aspects, in eternal war against himself, and so unable to actually pull himself together (SORRY!) and break out.Quote:As to your ideas, it's distinctly possible that the Shadow Shard did not exist before Rularuu's banishment, and may be entirely composed of Rularuu folded in on himself. Certainly its geography is strongly linked to the state of Rularuu's psyche, although whether that's because it's a reflection of his mind or because he's a powerful enough reality warper to make anyplace he's in become a reflection of his mind is not clear.
Again, this doesn't answer the question whether it's a physical place altered by him, or if it IS him folding in on himself and trapped within his own mind. The many aspects of his personality sharing the dimension with the ACTUAL Rularuu the Raveger sort of hints at this. It's a common theme in "exploring your own mind stories" to have the protagonist enter his own mind and face the different aspects of his personality from a third-person perspective while still retaining his FULL personality intact for the journey. It's quite possible Rularuu is somehow thrust into his own mind, trying to sort out his own aspects, which is what's keeping him from using the dimension-warping powers he clearly has.
Something to note about this, though. When talking about these, Justin says the languages are LIKE those he's familiar with, only not really. He can sort of read them kind of like they were a different language, but they clearly aren't.Quote:In fact, there's a lot about the Shadow Shard that's not clear. Some of the evidence seems to suggest that the Shard is thousands of years old - the stone monuments written in a mishmash of dead languages, for instance - and others suggest that the Shard is a very new creation, such as Sara Moore being a third-generation immigrant and Old Fred having actually witnessed the sundering of the world at the hands of Lanaru. I wouldn't mind seeing the Shard revitalized and made a bigger part of the game, but I think it'd need a considerable editing pass first.
If we subscribe to the Rularuu as a prisoner idea, then chances are the world is VERY old indeed, and Rularuu was just recently imprisoned there. The monuments could have survived the shattering, but since they talk ABOUT the shattering, it's possible they're just manifestations of Rularuu's own memories. Why they're written in weird languages probably has to do with either all the dimensions he's consumed, or all the reflections that populate his world, with him thinking THAT is human speech.
On the other hand, if we subscribe to the Rularuu trapped in his own mind idea, then the dimension would be as old as Rularuu himself, with these writings representing his memories as things happened, written down into the very world he's inhabiting.
Then again, you have a point - the whole place feels like it's ancient, and the way the aspects talk, it feels like they've been alive for thousands of years. The monuments themselves look like they're ancient. Not just old, but actually ancient. And here's another thing - everything... Literally EVERYTHING that there is to see and read in the Shadow Shard has to do with Rularuu. Even if it's not true in the physical sense, in that the floating islands are just rock, the whole place still IS Rularuu, because there is literally nothing else.
Here's the thing, though - the Soldiers of Rularuu don't eat the fruit. They don't just guard it (originally, they didn't guard it at all, but people farmed it, so...), they collect it. But what would they need it for if not to eat? To feed someone? Who? All the aspects seem like they're either stark raving mad or completely powerless.Quote:Kora's an easy one though. It's a fruit that is massively nutritious, incorporating exactly the right balance of carbohydrates, proteins, and trace elements to sustain human beings. Why are they that way? Probably because Rularuu wills it - if he wants his human captives to worship and obey him, he needs them to eat to stay alive. Why are they guarded by vicious monsters? Probably because Rularuu is a jerk - he only wants those who worship and obey him to have it, and the human natives led by Sarah Moore definitely do not.
Anyway, I always enjoy these discussions about the Shard. The place has a lot of potential for interesting storylines. -
Quote:Do you honestly think "Man, I should stop running Architect/Paper missions and do some contact missions in case I ever need to buy inspirations in this zone?" That doesn't happen. People play what they play, and on the off chance they need inspirations and they don't want to rely on trops, they can drop by one of the myriad of places that sell them. Forcing people to buy inspirations from contacts will not make just about anyone play contact missions if THAT were the only reason to do so.Originally Posted by GrinningSpade
But we are not discussing those changes. Heck, I know that I will like the convenience of buying inspirations at hospitals. I am as lazy as anybody else. What I do NOT like is that 90% of the teams I have been in, are only doing Radio missions. Simple because they are so much more convenient then the awkward running around with normal missions. I am against solutions that will make playing normal contacts content even less important. Being able to buy insps at every hospital is one such thing I fear will make normal content less important.
All this does is screw over people who actually PLAY contact missions. "Oh, wait, I worked for contacts in Talos Island only, but they keep sending me to Independence Port, where I don't know anyone. Poopy!" If I'm running paper missions, I won't run into an EB, and therefore the actual NEED I'll have for inspirations is negligible. In the Architect, I have a shop within spitting distance. The only time I DO have a need for inspirations but NO good, convenient way to acquire them is when I'm actually playing regular content. -
Quote:Procreated, perhaps, but that doesn't seem to have stopped people from fornicating, as the Fat Cat City arc all but spells out. PG13 game, indeed.Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
There is no evidence that more than a few people in the universe have reproduced, particularly within 20 years.
Obviously the population of the city is sterile. The reason is up for speculation, particularly if it is entertaining. -
Yeah, it's that time again. Let's try and bring some sense to the Shadow Shard, what it is, how it came to be, and who or what "Rularuu" actually is. Why now? I did the Justin Augustine TF a few days ago, and I'm still not sure what I learned from it. Now, I've done the Fr. Quaterfield TF (which seems to be pointless) the Justine Augstine TF (which is about Faatim), and the Faatim TF (which is about Lanaruu, though I did that five years ago). I have not done the Sarah Moore TF, so I've no idea what turths it uncovers.
What is the Shadow Shard? An alternate dimension, obviously, but not just a normal one. A City of Villains mission that sends you to the Shadow Shard (one of Nylor's missions, I think) has the following entry message: "It's like being in the mind of a god." Given how heavy-handed these suggestive entry messages are ("The heat here is infernal!" upon entering the PTS. No! Really?), that brings up an interesting possibility - what if it IS the mind of a god? It is populated and ruled by the many aspects of Rularuu, and though I've seen models for Rularuu the Raveger, there certainly are a few suggestions that Rularuu may be CoH's take on something like either the Beyonder or the Anti-Monitor.
It is a physical place, however, that much is certain. After all, we walk on it. Lacking any apparent "bottom," however, there is some doubt as to how real that actually is. We know the world was "broken" by Lanaruu when his madness overcame him, but we don't actually have a good idea as to what the world was before that. We don't really know if it was a planet at all, or if the whole place was some sort of weird Milk Man Conspiracy construct of abstract though.
We do know that the higher creatures we see are aspects of Rularuu, specifically emotions, it seems. Faatim is kindness, Ruladak is strength and Lanaruu madness. At least, he is madness now. Purportedly, he went mad, and may have been something else before. Defiance, maybe? We know WHY he went mad - he could not take being part of Rularuu and always subservient to his mind. It is not clear whether Lanaruu broke the world out of spite with his own power, whether his battle with Rularuu tore the world apart, or whether him simply splitting off broke the fabric of reality itself. The breaking is blamed on him, but the method by which it happens is never explained.
The "floating fortresses" likely play a part in the whole thing. When Faatim sought to distance himself from Rularuu, he hid within the Chantry, presumably to cut himself off. His doing so seems to have brought Rularuu out of balance, eventually inciting Lanaruu to go mad. Whether this freed Lanaruu to rebel in turn, or whether Faatim's betrayal simply impaired the link between the different aspects of Rularuu isn't clear, however. We do know that Lanaruu, in turn, built his own fortress of madness, the Storm Palace, and we do know the Soldiers of Rularuu are attacking him, as well as keeping Faatim confined within his Chantry.
But then there are the Soldiers of Rularuu, as well. What are they? As the name suggests, perhaps just... Well, soldiers of Rularuu, but according to Justin, it seems like the people were told to worship Rularuu, but not the creatures called Soldiers of Rularuu, themselves. I'm not even sure what they are and where they come from. They could be just veritable figment (or censors, if you will) keeping the mind that is Rularuu in check, or some kind of nightmarish abominations that escaped when the aspects of Rularuu separated and began fracturing the overmind.
We do know the creatures collect the Kora fruit, but we don't know why. We suspect the Koira fruit is what keeps the people of the Shard healthy and fit, but we don't know how. We don't even know what the Kora is, outside of beneficial, but then we don't know what the point of aim of the Soldiers of Rularuu actually is. We do know they are constantly trying to push through into other dimensions, aggressively, almost instinctively, but we don't know why. What do they hope to achieve?
And what of the people here? They speak English, they seem like they came from Paragon City, and Faatim talks about how he tried to create a haven for them when the first portals opened. He failed, but the point remains that it seems like people from Paragon City, or at least an alternate Earth, went to the Shadow Shard long before Portal Corp set up their own portals. We know Crey are working on their own portals and Nemesis has his own, apparently an original design. However, the Circle of Thorns seem to have an entirely non-technological, and potentially much older means to travel through dimensions. In fact, they seem to be offering passage to demons, if I red the clues right, to come into the Shadow Shard. They are also trying to bind Faatim the Kind, speaking as though they've done it before.
I'm just not quite sure I can tie all this together in any way. Who is Rularuu? Why is he called "The Ravager?" Why are aspects of his mind ruling the Shard as gods? What was the Shard before Lanaruu broke it, and why hasn't it dispersed in the vacuum of space? Why are people supposed to worship Rularuu, yet not worship Rularuu? And why does Darryn Wayde want to bring him "into the here and now?" The Midnighter lore seems to suggest he was somehow locked within the Shard (even though that doesn't preclude him being locked in his own mind), but if so, was he ever on Earth? And why?
I'd be very intrigued by all of these questions, because the mystery of the Shadow Shard and Rularuu is truly an interesting, enamouring story, but I'm more angry at how little detail exists to answer all of these questions. We have all of four TFs which are almost entirely filler and don't give any answers, anyway. And given the game's track record, it doesn't seem like we'll ever actually get any more information. And this is, potentially, the most interesting part of the game's lore Could that be part of the Coming Storm? I certainly hope so, because the Shard has had exactly ZERO fleshing out in the five years it's been in the game. At this point, I'd settle for something, anything, as long as it's progress.
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Quote:I'm not sure that's entirely true, the stealth suppressing. Cloak of Darkness provides two types of Stealth: +35 StealthRadius for 0.75s and +389 StealthRadiusPlayer for 0.75s. Last time this came up, the StealthRadiusPlayer stat was explained to me to be stealth in PvP. That suppresses normally. Its StealthRadius, however, does not. Let's nook at a more normal power which suppresses as expected: Cloaking DeviceOriginally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Cloak of Darkness's stealth suppresses in combat, but it's defense does not suppress under any circumstance. It (and maybe Energy Cloak, I'm not familiar with that power) is the only stealth power to my knowledge that the defense doesn't suppress along with the stealth. And it has exactly the same defense numbers as Weave, adjusted by AT modifiers. So, slotted for a tank it gives an additional ~9% defense, without the need to take 2 other powers first.
+20 StealthRadius for 0.75s
Effect does not stack from same caster
Suppressed when Attacked, for 10 seconds (Always)
Suppressed when HitByFoe, for 10 seconds (Always)
Suppressed when MissionObjectClick, for 10 seconds (Always)
Essentially, this suppresses if you attack, are hit by an enemy, or click a mission objective. Contrast that with Cloak of Fear, which lists:
+35 StealthRadius for 0.75s
Effect does not stack from same caster
Suppressed when MissionObjectClick, for 10 seconds (Always)
Essentially, this still suppresses, but only when you click an objective. Unlike Cloaking Device, it doesn't suppress when you attack or when you are hit, which means in combat, it doesn't suppress at all. I mean, clicking glowies is not a part of your average battle, is it?
How, when and which stealth suppresses has been something I've been trying to figure out for years. Once upon a time I asked, and that's when I was told "stealth toggles in defence sets don't suppress." Later, examining Red Tomax's City of Data, I came to the conclusion that, in PvP, Energy Cloak and Cloak of Darkness do not suppress in any way in combat. Experience with the powers seems to confirm this, as enemies who should have seen me but can't because I'm stealthed still don't see me once I start fighting, -
Quote:Good point. I completely forgot about that.Originally Posted by Leo_G
That's sort of trumped by the fact not all melee sets have Stuns yet *everyone* has fear available to them thanks to the presence pool.
Well, yes and no. For years I advocated toggle management, but playing through Stone Armour taught me otherwise. Lots of enemy groups simply require multiple damage type protections, all of them do physical damage and all of them have status effects. For Stone Armour, this means you need Rock Armour and Rooted all the time, as well as Crystal Armour AND Brimstone Armour a lot of the time. And if you're lucky enough to fight Arachnos, you need absolutely evereything. Dark Armour is kind of like that, though I didn't fight many Arachnos soldiers on my Scrapper.Quote:As for the costs, well that's sort of the set's weakness. But it's not always necessary to run all those toggles. If the enemy only does lethal/smashing and energy (like Freaks) then you don't need everything. If you're fighting things with retarded -def debuffs that may be auto-hit (CoT quicksand) then the defense and -ToHit aren't going to help. If the enemy is resistant to stun then why run OG? It's more about toggle management, like has been said earlier.
I'm always reluctant to trust in toggle management too much, simply because so many situations require almost all toggles.
Sure, why not?Quote:Right, Sam? See? Bestest buddies...
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Quote:The problem with a real-time FPS targeting system is that it requires a very fast connection to the server. Anything over 60-70 ping makes such a system insidiously hard to hit anything with, because not only are you inaccurate, the game actually misleads you as to what you're aiming for. This taxes the servers and, more importantly, isn't always even feasible. I live in Europe, and I have a pretty fast connection, around 10-11 Mb/s, yet I literally CANNOT get less than 250-300 ping to the City of Heroes servers, and I can rarely see less than 100 ping to any server outside of Europe. In fact, one of the positives about City of Heroes when I was buying it was that I didn't have to have a fast connection with the server.Originally Posted by Tog
Finally, Dice rolls: AC didn't really seem to use them for combat. It used the FPS style of an actual projectile. It was possible to dodge spells and arrows by running behind trees and zig-zagging. Some spells were able to track a little bit.
It's a good idea in theory, especially for a single-player or close-network game, but for a game with players from, quite literally, around the world, that can be problematic. -
Quote:I think the problem here is mechanical. As Castle (was it?) explained it, Taunt was an effective threat MULTIPLER, leading to threat ratings that were completely out of proportion with those of no-taunting players, even if they had an otherwise high threat rating. I don't remember the exactly numbers, but I seem to recall thousands being mentioned as a treat rating.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
It would be better if some things required higher levels of taunt/hate to draw their attention rather than simply ignoring taunt/hate altogether. In effect, they could be resistant to taunt, and have intrinsic preferences that are mechanically like taunting themselves to attack something. So something with an "attack the healer" preference wouldn't simply ignore the tank and kamikaze the defender, it would act as if healers were taunting them with mag X, and the tanker would notice they would need to generate at least mag X+1 to get their attention (this is an oversimplification: the way taunt works doesn't quite align with this idea as I understand taunt and hate).
Of course, I'm not entirely clear as to how, exactly, the system works, so I may be missing something. It just seems to me that, if enemies are able to resist taunting, then they will be practically immune to anything short of very high-magnitude taunts. I'm not sure that's a good idea, as that would put them out of reach of things like Taunt auras and so on, and I'm not sure if it won't put them out of reach of being taunted by anything other than a Tanker.
And again, I just don't know. -
Quote:I saw that a few days ago, and yes, it is different from how it used to be. Before, the running cycle would slow. Now, the running cycle is the accurate speed, but the model will bob up and down on each step SIGNIFICANTLY. Yes, it looks pretty bad. And, yes, it's easy to replicate. It happens every time you start running, or transition into running forward from a strafe or a backpedal.Originally Posted by Eldorado
As far as "gliding" goes, I'm not seeing that AT ALL. The best analogy I can make is with track and field -- if normal running with a sword drawn looks like a woman runner carrying a (ginormous and sharp) baton in a 400m relay, what I'm seeing is a female runner carrying a baton in the 400m HURDLES. But not really -- in the real world, real hurdles are placed every 8.5 meters or every few strides. In my animation it's more like EVERY stride for the first five or eight steps. "Jump jump jump jump jump jump run run run run run."
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Quote:I'm sorry, but you're simply wrong. Let's look at Tough and Weave. Switch their Archetype to Unspecified and watch what they do.Originally Posted by Archon099
This would make sense if they made Tough/Weave offer better stats for Scraps/Tanks/Brutes, but they didn't. They changed the powers to benefit some classes more than others because they would be overpowered on some. They made Leadership better for support classes because it's their job and because a scrapper offering the same bonus would be not only survivable and damage dealing, but would now have buffing to add to his stellar repertoire. Look at Epic Pools. People complain that scrappers have some of the worst moves compared to others. Why? They already have the best of both worlds: damage with armor. There isn't much they CAN'T do besides ranged moves and support.
Tough does:
RES(Smashing, Lethal) 1.50000 Melee_Res_Dmg% for 0.75s If NOT on a PvP map
And Weave does:
DEF(Melee, AOE, Lethal, Cold) 0.50000 Melee_Buff_Def% for 0.75s If NOT on a PvP map
Effect does not stack from same caster
A Scrapper has a Melee_Res_Dmg mod of 0.075, a Blaster has a mod of 0.07, while a Tanker has a modifier of 0.1. This means that a Blaster would get 1.5*0.07 = 0.105 = 10.5%, a Scrapper would get 1.5*0.075 = 0.1125 = 11.25%, and a Tanker would get 1.5*0.1 = 0.15 = 15%. Check it!
A Scrapper has a Melee_Buff_Def mod of 0.075, a Blaster has a mod of 0.07, and a Tanker has a mod of 0.1. This means a Blaster would get 0.5*0.07 = 0.035 = 3.5%, a Scrapper would get 0.5*0.075 = 0.0375 = 3.75% and a Tanker would get 0.5*0.1 = 0.05 = 5%. Check it!
Each pool power uses a variety of modifiers, which is what makes the different ATs do different amounts with them. They're not specifically designed to be better for some ATs than for others, they are merely be designed to do certain things which some ATs are better than than others. Generally speaking, each effect comes with two mods, a melee one and a ranged one, which doesn't in any way correspond to melee and ranged attacks. In fact, I'm not entirely clear which powers use melee and which powers use ranged. I used to think that powers which affected other people used ranged and powers which affected yourself used melee, but I don't know.
Again, when we're discussing balance and subsystems, it pays to be anal. -
At the very least, let's update the old, grainy loading picks from the old CoH zones. Steel Canyon still has a picture from when all windows in a building lit up at night.
And can we please make full-screen graphics scale, rather than stretch? On any resolution that's not 4:3, your enhancements screen stretches and distorts the circles of the enhancements. -
Quote:Sliding scale arguments don't work like that. People have been asking for an inspiration vendor in hospitals since day 1, specifically to help make sure whatever sent you there doesn't send you there again.Originally Posted by Megajoule
For the sake of eliminating redundancy, then, we should have a single mission terminal in every zone which dispenses regular missions, AE missions, inspirations, TO/DO/SO enhancements, and functions as a black market, trainer, merit vendor, field analyst/fateweaver, and arena terminal. Oh, and a tailor too, of course. And you can pay your SG/VG rent there.
Then we can get rid of all those unnecessary, redundant NPCs and stores and just have everyone go to one spot to get what they need. -
Quote:Practically, that's all it comes down to. I know we all like philosophies, morality, ethics and the difficulties of heroic life, but at the end of the day, the entire industry is based around heroes kicking villain ***. No matter how you slice it (no pun intended), if you lack that, you lose the heart of what super heroes as a fictional genre are all about.Originally Posted by MageX
basically a super hero is supposed to kick your butt.
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Quote:You're out of luck, then. Notice how the developers solved the Architect problem? They added the same functionality in the regular game, so people dispersed. Now look at what the Architect provides - an inspiration vendor right next to the lift out of their fake hospital. It's convenient, it's nice and, above all, it's unintrusive.Originally Posted by GrinningSpade
For example, radio missions killed of the normal mission/vcontact and hunt play. Ourobouros, made traveling with boats or train a thing of the past. it also made itvery easy to skip content until it is convenient for you to do so. And everybody knows what AE did.
Once upon a time I tried running contacts near hospitals. I gave up on it pretty quickly, because it sucks to be hamstrung about which arcs you do. I've done the inspiration limbo, too. Go to Pocket D, go to the Arena, now it's go to Architect Entertainment.
That.
Sucks.
I'm going to buy inspirations anyway. And why shouldn't I? The game is designed around using Tier 1 Inspirations liberally. It's Tier 2 and Tier 3 that are problematic, but Tier 1 you can buy at any dime store. Denying that to players and making them jump through annoying hoops will not make them play more like how you want them to play. It'll make them jump through hoops, grumble and STILL not play that way.
Unless you want to drive an argument that conveniently buying Tier 1 inspirations and always having ready access to them is a bad thing (and I doubt that's doable), there really is no ground to dismiss this. -
Quote:A couple of things - a heal, when cast as soon as it recharges (presumably, because you need it) is equivalent to effective regeneration in many situations. Granted, if you die before it recharges, it doesn't work, and if you're not hurt badly enough and the heal overflows your hit points bar, you waste some of that. But if you're not hurt badly enough to need it, then the problem isn't as severe.Originally Posted by Archon099
Also, Dark Regen is not a regeneration bonus, it's a heal. +Regen is not a part of the power, and even if OG is providing 30 DPS, the enemies attack at maybe once every 4 seconds or so for 100 damage, making about 25 DPS. Even the fastest melee attacks aren't often less than 3 second recharge, and jaegers are no different. If your DA scrapper/tanker/brute has a regen rate of 30 hp/sec, then it would be effectively reducing your regen rate to zero. That same effect would require 2 stacks of regen debuffs from Kinetics: Transference. All I'm saying is that CoF at least has a fallback plan and more than one effect. I'm not denouncing the use of either and in fact use and alternate between both depending on the situation.
Secondly, what I gave was DPS, e.i. Damage Per Second, not damage per attack cycle. Attack cycles don't really matter all that much in the long run, not past a couple of cycles, anyway. Their combined DPS does. I don't remember how I came to the conclusion that five minions would yield ~200 DPS, I'd have to rummage around in my PMs if you really want me to. Point is, it's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. And I've used it a lot. It just isn't as bad.
And, yes, I will concede that Cloak of Fear has its uses. But for Cloak of Fear to be effective, you pretty much have to six-slot it, not to mention sinking a power pick into it. Oppressive Gloom is good to go with its single default slot. I have not, to this day, found a situation in which I need BOTH Cloak of Fear AND Oppressive Gloom, and for the most part, the situations where either is needed almost completely overlap. I've never seen a good reason to have them both, and if I have to choose between them, I'll always choose the power which is more efficient in regards to the effect it has. Cloak of Fear isn't (quite so) bad in and of itself. It's within context of the rest of the set that it represents a problem.
You're off the mark here. Firstly, defence set stealth powers are considerably better than Stealth from Concealment. For one, they have no movement speed penalty. For another, they don't suppress, either their stealth radius or their defence.Quote:The only benefit that the armor set stealth moves (not referring to Hide here) have over Concealment: Stealth is that they don't suppress. Sure the cost is minimally less and the minuscule speed debuff isn't there, but you hardly notice those. They made it so that Pool powers have class-specific changes, like Leadership buffs are better for defenders, Tough/Weave are better for classes that don't already have armor, and pool attacks can get scrapper/stalker crits, Scourge bonuses, Containment bonuses, etc. Would it be so hard to make it so that in the event an armor-using class wanted Stealth, they could merely take the pool version and have the end cost reduced (to help with armor end costs), the suppression removed, and the speed debuff removed to be on par with Cloak of Darkness and Energy Cloak?
Secondly, the reason pool powers have different values for different ATs has nothing to do with a decision to make them more or less useful to each AT, and all to do with AT modifiers. Defenders and Controllers have higher modifiers for support and control powers than, say, Scrappers, and Scrappers and Tankers have higher defence and resistance modifiers than Blasters.
Also, you still sell the KEY utility of stealth short - the ability to pick and choose your battles. Being melee does not automatically mandate you to tank, and if you don't want to tank, this can be very convenient. It allows you to position before you are spotted, it keeps you from being overwhelmed by extra aggro, and it prevents you from being spotted by enemies you didn't see in time. All of those are very useful, especially solo.
See, this is part of the problem and much of why I'm so anal about these things. If we're going to talk about fixing purportedly problem powers, we really need to stick to the facts as close as we can and, yes, indulge in numbers very, very much. Distinguishing which powers really ARE bad, and which powers we just don't like can be problematic. -
Quote:Again, one single melee set has access to a fear power, and that's Dark Melee. Considerably more melee sets have access to a stun. Despite its natural conceptual cohesion, I'd still call Dark/Dark an outlier much in the same way as I'd call AR/Dev an outlier when it comes to discussions of blasters and Build Up/Aim chains.Originally Posted by Leo_G
You can't find a situation where CoF cannot be replaced in function with OG? What about sets that have no reliable stun to stack with it? Flurry, Boxing, etc are only chance (and low chance at that) to proc stuns so in the instance you want to stack fear, you've at least got the presence pool which has 2 100% fears.
As you said - upping its accuracy or lowering its cost is the only way I could ever justify using this power on top of Murky Cloud, Obsidian Shield and... What was the other one called? That, and Cloak of Darkness. It costs a lot and its control is unreliable. Not to mention the fact that Terrorize effects, despite what they are, cause enemies to run away often. -
Quote:I don't think that's entirely possible, as some sets already exist which blur the line. Traps, for instance, has three debuffs: Poison Gas Trap, Seeker Drones and Acid Mortar Two buffs, one of which is SIGNIFICANT: Triage Beacon and Forcefield Generator, a couple of control powers and a couple of damage powers. It's a bad of tricks.Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I think I know how to fix the idea behind the buff -debuff being seperate, and same with the def and res sets.
Yes, they are mixed and matched. But WHICH is the one that is focused on?
So, you will either have a buff set with a few debuffs (/Fire on Corrs) or a Debuff set with some buffs (/Rad on Corrs)
A res set with some defence (Willpower) or a Defense set with some Resistance (Stone armour).
Hell, I'd go for it. Unlockable, maybe. But more options would be nice.
As well, I wouldn't call Willpower a resistance set. It has SOME resistance, mostly to smashing and lethal damage, but it also depends on defence a LOT as well, particularly for any non-physical damage type. It also relies a lot on extra hit points and regeneration, as well. -
Quote:Once enemies are aggroed, stealth doesn't matter. And if another spawn aggroes? Taunt them. Punch them. Run by them. Anything. And, again, Brutes don't HAVE to tank. They can also solo, and for solo, these powers are very useful. If you're going to talk about tanking Brutes, then kindly avoid extrapolating a power's little use to them into a power's little use in general. Just because stealth is less useful for a tanking Brute than for a soloing one doesn't mean it's a useless power.Originally Posted by Archon099
Here's the scenario you seem to be in favor of: Two enemy spawns are too close together, so you turn on Cloak of Darkness and charge the first one. You don't aggro the second. This is where you are stopping and saying it's good. Now hold on a second. The scrappers, stalkers, dominators, and whoever else might come into range, are NOT stealthed by your Cloak of Darkness. Even if they DO have Concealment: Stealth, it will suppress and leave them visible to the other spawn. But the tank won't suppress, meaning his aggro radius will be smaller than that of his team. This is not good for a tanker. My earlier opinion was that at worst it would be annoying, and at best it would be unhelpful. Now at worst it would be the death of frailer teammates. Don't get me wrong, this is good for scrappers and non-tanking brutes, but for a tank it's bad.
Personal attacks will get you nowhere. You said SOME Masterminds can tank. I told you ALL Masterminds can tank. Not just Forcefields, not just Dark Miasma. Storm can, Traps can, Poison can, and I'm pretty sure Thermal and Pain can. It's not just one primary or one secondary. It's not even just a few primaries and a few secondaries. It's ALL primaries and ALL secondaries.Quote:As for the thing about MMs without forcefield, I already mentioned that Dark Miasma can be used to debuff in place of using armor to tank, which was a point I made in an earlier post, and you still chose to bash on it despite now supporting the idea yourself. :-/ I'm starting to think you are trying to be belligerent here. I merely made a point of noting an issue with giving a tank a stealth move instead of a tank move. I'm not here to start a war. I don't want to dissect post after post to trash on ideas. I'm not calling your opinions or ideas asinine, and would appreciate the same respect in return.
The disorient in Oppressive Gloom doesn't "proc." It is applied on EVERY tick of the power against every enemy it hits, the same as Cloak of Fear's effects. If a tick misses a target, that means no fear and no to-hit debuff. And, by the way, the to-hit debuff lasts as long as the power's cycle, so if you miss one cycle, you lose to debuff. If either power misses a tick, you lose the effect. Only Oppressive Gloom has an accuracy of 1.0, whereas Cloak of Fear has an accuracy of 0.67, which means it will miss a LOT more and require a LOT more slotting.Quote:What I mean is that you can't call a move that debuffs accuracy as well as interrupts enemy attacks with fear useless. For the record, I almost always have little white ghostly faces popping up on the enemies around me, and even if I don't, the acc debuff is better than the defense buff of Cloak of Darkness by 50%. If the disorient of Oppressive Gloom doesn't proc, it still hurts and does nothing additional. I love both moves and use both moves, but they have their purpose in different places. From my experience I mitigate more damage with the fear aura than with the disorient one, but the disorienting one is cheaper.
I never said Cloak of Fear was useless. It has its uses, but there has not been a situation that I've found where both Cloak of Fear AND Oppressive Gloom were needed together, and I've found almost no situation where Cloak of Fear did more than Oppressive Gloom. Yes, it debuffs to-hit... If it hits. And a resistance-based self-protection set, fat lot of good that does you. It helps, sure, but not nearly as much as you say.
I'm not "attacking" Dark Armour. I'm pointing out that Cloak of Fear is a terrible power for the set. I actually enjoy Dark Armour a lot WITHOUT Cloak of Fear. I still don't subscribe to the notion that was said earlier - that it's a squishy set, but I also do agree with the thread in general - certain powers just seem awfully out of place. Think back to the power's original functionality. Before I4, "Fear" used to make enemies run away, which was a very strong effect. Now it just makes them cower while still being able to shoot at you. They were a lot more lenient with the Afraid effect than they are with the Terrorize effect these days, which is why Cloak of Fear is as gutted as it is. Seriously, 0.67 base accuracy? That's ABOMINABLE! Just that on its face makes the power terrible, and then you have that huge cost on to of it all, in a set that's already loaded with toggles and very costly to begin with. Bad move all around.Quote:I'm still not quite sure why this was an issue, since I was merely trying to defend Dark Armor while still asking for it to get just a little more fluff to make it comparable in effectiveness to other armor sets. You seem to keep attacking Dark Armor and frankly, if that's the route you want to go, by all means run with it. Maybe they will be more likely to improve it if the set seems worse than it is. I don't wanna fight, hugs all around, I just want Dark Armor to get a little love like Energy Aura and Electric Armor received recently.
Some powers are good, some powers are bad, and some powers are questionable. I will freely admit that I see Repulsion Field clone powers as next to useless. Their cost is prohibitive and their effect largely useless. And I've tried that on a Blaster, so I'm not exaggerating. Generally speaking, powers with stupendous costs are a bad idea unless they are INCREDIBLY strong, which few toggles are. Focused Accuracy used to be, when it could punch through anything, but when they switched it to accuracy slotting, it's not just mostly a minor aid with a very steep cost.
"Cost per enemy" powers are just as bad. Something like Oppressive Gloom costs me 5 hit points per enemy, yet something like Repulsion Field costs me 1 endurance point per enemy. Well, my Scrapper has 1300 hit points, but only 100 endurance points. That endurance bar is also taxed with supporting other toggles, feeding other powers and resisting endurance drain, while, if I play my cards right, my hit points bar isn't in much danger. It doesn't make sense to make powers THIS costly for THIS little effect. Repulsion Field vs. Force Bubble is a good example. Why would I want to pay many times the cost for a much smaller bubble that knocks back, when I can pay many times less for a much bigger bubble that pushes? I've seen the arguments, and I never saw them justify the cost.
By the same token, however, just because you don't like a power doesn't make it BAD and in need of fixing. Stealth, for instance, in the several Brute sets it appears in. Stealth has its uses to Brutes. They may not be the uses you want, but they're not aberrant to Brute play in general. I can see how it may not be as useful on a Tanker, but really, only one set even has that, and it's there for thematic reasons. Dark Armour has enough taunt auras to make up for it. Unless you can give me a good argument why the power is useless to the AT in general, or has very little use in most situations or, as the case may be, has uses, but another power in the same powerset does the same thing better and for lest cost, we end up with powers we don't like, not necessarily "problem" powers.
I'm not married to having Stealth for Brutes and Tankers. I find it useful, but I won't exactly curl up and cry if it went. But that's by far the least of our worries when powers still cost cosmic amounts both in terms of investment and in terms of resources, yet do so little in return. -
Quote:Since when have people learned anything by getting to level 50?Originally Posted by ChaosExMachina
Why does this go to "people will gimp themselves" every time?
The best way to stop that is to make a true open archetype unlockable at 50 so that they learn powers with the static ones. -
Quote:The point of that was to state that, without restraint, a super punch is more deadly than a super sharpshooter's gun can be WITH restraint. It comes down to the use of the super power, not its nature.Originally Posted by Arnabas
I, too, had been discussing a comic book game with super powers, but then people started tossing out "well, in real life, a punch is more likely to kill someone..."
And again - in this game, no damage is lethal unless specifically stated in your briefing, debriefing or clues. Plenty of enemies are shot, stabbed, blown up and and irradiated and still have no problem coming back to fight again fit as a fiddle. -
Quote:There's a fundamental problem with that - defence doesn't represent just your ability to dodge, it represents your ability to DEFLECT. And not just deflect with a shield or your arms, but deflect with armour. Easy examples:
Now, WHY Defense and Resistance being separated? It's because, thinking along the lines of CoH mechanics, Resistance is how damage is reduced while Defense is your chance to Evade/Dodge the attack itself. To me, Defense screams 'Agile, fluid, smooth' while Resistance seems more 'Tough, pain-tolerant'.
Stone Armour/Rock Armour is a thick, lumpy, cumbersome coating of rocks over your model. It is NOT in any way conducive to dodging, but that's OK, because the rocks simply deflect incoming fire.
Invulnerability/Tough Hide is exactly what it says on the tin - a tough hide of skin. So tough, in fact, that a lot of attacks simply don't hurt you. It doesn't help you dodge, it helps you not feel attacks that do land.
Forcefields/Deflection Shield doesn't require the shielded character to do anything at all. He could be asleep, and the shield will still work. The shield does not allow the character to dodge, it simply deflects incoming fire.
In fact, look at how sets are built now - almost all defensive sets combine both defence and resistance. Invulnerability, the second-toughest-by-concept set, relies as much on damage resistance from its toggles and passives, as it does on defence from Tough Hide and Invincibility. Stone Armour, the tough, lumbering behemoth of defence sets, has three defence-based shields: Rock Armour, Crystal Armour and Minerals, and only one resistance-based: Brimstone Armour. Granite Armour, in turn, provides a lot of defence, but also a lot of resistance, as well. Hell, even Super Reflexes, THE fast, nimble set, depends on the scaling resistances in its passives to a great extent.
I'm also not sure why you divide buff and debuff, when several support sets combine the two. Sets like Traps, for instance.
Overall, your idea is interesting, but it seems like it misses out on a few classes that already exist. Epics aside, Blasters aren't represented. They are neither Ranged/Melee nor Ranged/Support (even though the creator calls them that). Blasters have a unique secondary solely to them - Manipulation. Manipulation sets combine some limited support, largely self-centred, and some limited offensive ability, usually melee or otherwise situational. Some Mastery sets lean more towards control, as well. For instance, Devices is largely control with situational damage, Ice Manipulation is control with support, and something like Energy Manipulation is primarily damage with some support.
Additionally, your system completely writes Dominators out of the game. Dominators, like Blasters, have a secondary unique to them - Assault. Assault secondaries are neither melee not ranged, they are a combination of the two. Some lean more towards range while others more towards melee, but they are all somewhere in-between. Because Dominators would require a Control primary, that limits them to one secondary, and your circle does not include assault.
Your circle also has a few choices which confound me.
You pair up melee with buff, yet not with debuff. Why? You also pair melee up with ranged, I'm assuming to allow for the Blaster framework, but that's actually a terrible combo. Blasters do survive on their damage, but trying to play a completely support-less Blaster (say, Fire/Fire) will quickly show you that if you lack self-protection AND self-support, live is really, really hard.
You also pair summoning with defence and resistance, which is... A really odd choice if you have no offence to speak of. You also, again, pair it up with buff, but not debuff, making Anything/Dark Miasma Masterminds impossible. Also, you pair summoning with melee, yet not ranged, even though, on average, melee sets actually do more damage and are at the same time less appropriate for someone without self-protection. I'll leave the "range as defence (or not)" debate for another time, though.
Range is even stranger. You pair it with both buff and debuff, which allows for Defenders and Corrupters to exist, but you also pair it with control. I'm assuming that's to model Dominators, but that's not what they are. Not only that, but it was at one point stated that Controllers were denied solid ranged damage because control plus damage was overpowered. Given that Dominators exist, that might not be so, but it's worth mentioning. And then the real big thing, though - you pair range with defence? This has been explicitly stated as overpowered in a LOT examinations, and I believe the developers hinted at this not being something they want. Certainly via careful balance it can be made to work, but this treads dangerous territory. You're a lot more likely to see one of the two sets being hybrid - either melee and range (e.i. assault) with defence, or range with defence/something. And again - why only with defence but not with resistance?
And what about control and summoning? Why not link those together? We already have summoning/support, why not summoning/control? I mean, I know there is a difference between the two, but the logic could easily extend, and it'd be a hell of a lot easier to make work than some of the stuff I've suggested, like melee+range/summoning-buff-bots and so on.
Again, I don't want to sound like a jerk out to ruin your day. I had a good, long look at your idea, and I must admit it looks very interesting. I'm just seeing a lot of things on it that I don't get. -
Quote:Literally, in this caseOriginally Posted by Obsidius
Yes, the official reason, to be concise, is that "a wizard did it."
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Quote:Right, real-life fights. I'm sorry, I must have opened the wrong door. I thought I came into the thread where we were talking about super heroes with super powers. I'll see if I can talk to the receptionist about giving me the right key next time.Originally Posted by Arnabas
What I have learned from this thread:
If I ever get into a real-life fight with someone (and I hope not to), then my best bet is to shoot him, or attack him with a sword, because those options are much less likely to injure him than punching him. -
Quote:Nope. Not one bit.Originally Posted by Samson_Sledge
You guys mean to tell me,and this applies to those who simply love to play the game hard as well,that whenever you want to team,and people say "No" over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again..that that dosent make you mad?
Forced teaming is the worst, most repulsive element of any game I have ever tried. In fact, this notion that teaming is the only "proper" way to play the game needs to die, not to put too fine a point on it. You WILL NOT force me to team with you against my will. Deal with it.Quote:Let us destroy the need to not want to team.Let us put some meat on a stick to motivate those statues with something who just come on-line to take up space.Who's with me?!