Samuel_Tow

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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by InfamousBrad View Post
    So, yeah, no. No matter how much they said at Herocon about how the Praetorians are no longer just the "goatee versions" of Freedom Phalanx and the Vindicators, once they set up Tyrant as a villain, and you can't deny that they have, it was pretty much inevitable that all of the writing will portray Tyrant and his lackeys as mustache-twirling melodrama villains; the only moral ambiguity will be in the matter of how long does it take your character to figure out that the Resistance are the good guys and the government superheroes and cops are the bad guys, and once you figure that out, do you choose to be a bad guy for the government or a good guy for the resistance?
    I don't know where you're getting this, but I've not seen them portrayed as such, or indeed portrayed as anything too specific. It's practically written on the wall who the good guys will be and who the bad guys will be, but it's a continental jump from that to "moustache-twirling evil." You can make a good guy with uncertain motivations and a bad guy who seems to have a point and still retain a very clear picture of who is who. Frankly, where you see precedent, I see a world of reasons to NOT repeat what has been done, partly because very much everyone has complained about it, and partly because there's no point to release an expansion that's a retread of the same.
  2. Hmm... Let's see...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    And being able to cut eight down to two is a function of AoEs, not BU and Aim. Penalizing something for lacking BU because they are lacking a tool that can buff AoEs and also penalizing the same something for lacking AoEs is a very weird form of double-counting.
    Practically speaking, double counting is precisely what I'm doing. Just having either on its own may or may not be enough to count, but having both is what cements Blasters as truly damage-focused in my mind. I guess I could just count both as one, but since I'm not actually assigning points and doing a numeric tally, I could count the same issue twelve times and it shouldn't make a difference. Granted, I was going for the dramatic effect of listing a long list, and a few double-counts do swell that up in a largely under-handed way, but I don't believe that particular specificity actually changes the overriding point.

    Basically, Dominators lack decent AoEs, which prevents them from effectively dealing with large groups of enemies in a timely manner (e.i. before my AoE controls run out), and they lack a Build Up + Aim combo which would allow them to deliver enough burst damage to turn the tide of battle. Of course, the final and most important argument here is also subjective. Dominators deal damage. A lot of it. But in terms of playstyle, the first thing a solo Dominator wants to do is NOT to deal damage, but rather to control. Hold things first, THEN start killing them, and whenever it comes down to that order of business, that is not something I can accept as damage-centric.

    Quote:
    In any case, I don't discount the benefits of burst damage for blasters. I just don't count it as an offensive benefit unless it also increases kill speed. Frontloading (borrowing damage from tomorrow and using it today) is a defensive benefit. BU has a high defensive benefit and a low offensive one in general. This can be influenced to some degree by playstyle, but so can most things.

    In any case, that's why, if I had to choose between +100% damage 10% of the time or +12% damage all of the time, my blasters will probably take the former and my scrappers will take the latter. My blasters can make better use of the damage now than later. My scrappers, who aren't going to die, would rather just have more, period.
    To give an obtuse opening: yes and no. On the one hand, yes, borrowing from later to use today does not increase performance... Not numerically, at least. But from my experience, it concentrates damage in the moments when it actually matters in an OFFENSIVE capacity, e.i. when all my powers are recharged and my health and endurance are full. You see, this may be just a playstyle thing, a multitude of factors mandate that I wait or delay a lot of the time. It could be travel from spawn to spawn, it could be clicking a glowie, it could be just exploring or it could be something as simple as getting up to visit the loo. These are waiting times during which I WILL wait regardless of anything else, and times when doing damage is out of the question. However, even during these times, my powers still recharge.

    In actual fact, I AM taking damage from one place to pile it up in another, but where I'm taking damage is a place where it isn't useful anyway. If damage were a tangible resource like, say, gold, then I trust you will agree with the following assessment: as long as there are times it's going to go to waste anyway, it makes sense to take it away from those times and use it at other times when it WILL make a difference.

    Here's how things go, for me at least - I say Build Up and Aim are up every couple of battles, but that assumes I go from battle to battle to battle. I do not. At the end of each battle, I typically spend some time sitting on my hands, appraising the situation, some time exploring the fog of war, some time travelling, some time scanning through the enemy ranks, some time thinking, and possibly some time resting. By the time I'm done, Build Up and Aim are up and ready to be used again. Purely numerically, mine recharge in around 50 seconds (I think), which would give them an uptime of 1 in 5 (less, in fact, since they take some time to animate, but not by much). In actual practice, however, Build Up and Aim are up for over half the time I'm actually in battle and doing damage. To me and how I play, they are a MASSIVE boost to outgoing damage.

    Just today, I have been able to afford to start over 3/4 of my fights with Build Up and Aim going, and I have been able to finish at least half of my fights before they have expired. It may be aberrant, it may be a bit wasteful, but for what I see them do for me, they are a SERIOUS boost to my damage, far greater than a small, consistent buff would be. Yes, a consistent buff is consistently buffing, but since I'm not consistently fighting, a lot of that goes to waste. Build Up and Aim almost never go to waste unless I do something remarkably stupid and end up held with no break frees while they time out in neutral gear.


    Quote:
    Only true for Fire blasters. Not true for all the rest, because all the rest have mitigating controls. For example, sometimes on my sonic blaster I like just putting the entire group to sleep and then bashing them to death one at a time while their friends are snoring all around them. And Ice Patch is practically cheating.
    Controls expire, endurance runs ever downward, health gets drained and the enemies just keep on shooting. Any Blaster that I have fought has always been on a death clock. Some have a death clock much more lenient than others, but they all have one. Where a Scrapper can basically fall asleep in a spawn in a lot of cases, a Blaster doing the same is going DOWN. You can't out-control the enemies, only slow them down. Sooner or later they WILL overwhelm you, and the only way to beat them is to kill them fast. Any Blaster I have every played has suffered and suffered hard if a battle drags on, to the point where if a battle runs much longer than 10 seconds and I'm not down to a couple of minions or a straggler lieutenant, this immediately rings alarm bells in my head and I look to save my *** RIGHT NOW.

    Quote:
    Outside of control, to be able to end the fight after one volley requires being able to defeat the enemy basically in a single volley of your own, which is something only some blasters can do (usually Fire, and not all of them). The reason why this is totally broken as a design decision is that when you decide to give a class the defensive ability called "kill everything before it can shoot back" it will have this surprising tendency to level a gazillion times faster than everything else. The only reason why Fire blasters *don't* level a gazillion times faster than everyone else is because most players aren't experienced enough to avoid dropping dead while attempting this. But you do create the problem for yourself that AoE recharge is largely irrelevant in teams (recharge buffs, more than one attacker) and AoE steamrolling means all that work you spent designing attacks for minions gets flushed down the toilet (since they never get to use them).
    A couple of points here. First of all, and this probably comes down to difficulty settings, but in my experience, almost all Blaster combos are capable of full spawn wipes, just not all as early as Fire Blast, and not all quite as easily. But any Blaster that has two AoEs, when slotted well and under the influence of Aim and Build Up, will either spawn-wipe, or get close enough to it that it doesn't matter. This doesn't have to be done as simply and directly as cycling AoEs, and I've found it works best by opening with a control or insta-kill power, but it works.

    Secondly, yes, I fully realise that such massive AoEs are problematic if you want to give the AT a little more survivability. But it's a self-sustaining problem. Blasters lack survivability in a BIG way, so they NEED those AoEs to compensate. If they had survivability, they wouldn't be as reliant on AoE and I, at least, wouldn't be THAT heartbroken to have them tightened up. Not removed, mind you, just tightened up. And going from Fire Breath to Breath of Fire IS removal. That's why, whenever I re-suggest my Ranger AT, I always go for Assault/Defence. Without the massive AoEs, what the hell is such an AT going to do that a Scrapper isn't already doing?

    The problem, if I may say that, is that Blasters were built as "glass cannons" in a game where they ended up being the only ones made out of glass. As such, they had to carry the biggest cannons, or their whole AT design was pointless. Which it was, until the Defiance changes, and its point is at best mediocre even today. And I say this as an avid player of Blasters.

    Incidentally, how do you feel about what I like to refer to as the "garbage filler" in Blaster secondaries? Things like Burn or Smoke Grenade, just to pull two names out of a hat. I have no provable reason to feel that way, but to me it just feels like they ended up with too few powers and jammed in whatever fit the theme, leaving a lot of Blasters with a lot of powers that don't do much to help them, yet with the need of some extra help.

    Yes, they would. They'd just get there with tools that would get them there without creating balance problems, but are too dangerous to give them so long as they *do* have those AoEs.

    (For example, they should gain more for self-damage buffs and have higher damage caps, but AoEs make that too dangerous. AoEs come up so often in balance discussions that if I could simultaneously make the playerbase forget that they ever existed and thus never miss them, I *would* snap my fingers and make them go away in their current form, without further discussion or reservation. I don't say that lightly.)[/QUOTE]
  3. Samuel_Tow

    Targeted AoE KBs

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lycanus View Post
    It's no less scattering than Hurricane, Hand Clap, Whirlwind, Repel and so forth, and those, used with skill, are very useful. All it requires is care in placing your attacks, which KB already requires.
    Hurricane does not knock back, it does repel, which is much less disruptive. Hand Clap is a Player-based AoE knockback, and it has garnered innumerable complaints for this precise reason, with many, myself among them, suggesting it be turned into knockdown. Simply scattering enemies surrounding you is remarkably unproductive, specifically since it neuters your sets' actual AoE ATTACK - Footstomp - so the only use you'll see Hand Vlap get is by people who stand back from a spawn and try their best to knock everyone in the same direction.

    And Tornado is a pseudo-pet, and is so disruptive that last time I heard anything about it was the Satanic Hamster discussing ways to grief your team with it, and I THINK he was joking.
  4. Samuel_Tow

    Targeted AoE KBs

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lycanus View Post
    The realism makes it a more versatile tool and ADDS utility to the effect. Of course, added options does mean an increased learning curve. But now, with the same power, you can, with careful aiming, through everyone away, blow everyone toward you, blow everyone to the right, blow everyone to the left.
    Or blow everyone all over the place in an amazing scatter as your team-mate's faces switch seven shades of red. Here's the thing - if knocking your enemies away in different directions is your objective, what's stopping you from just walking around them to do it? Especially with an AoE, you don't need much distance to achieve it.
  5. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Zamuel View Post
    That's part of the reason I like my concept of a self damaging PBAOE despite the inherant dangers of it. Thematically makes sense, difficult to just outright abuse, and fits the offensive concept.
    Err... A self-damaging power that doubles as a rez is remarkably dangerous, if for one simple reason above all others - if you kill yourself with it, you just expended your own resurrect power. Oops? This is a situation that will see a lot of people's heads explode, and I'd really find it prudent to just avoid the possibility of it.
  6. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Soul Train View Post
    This is all based on the assumption of "FUN = DEFEATS/TIME".
    I suppose if your idea of fun is taking years to level up to any decent level, I could go with that, and I know some people don't mind, but I'd bet my metal tipped tail that a lot of people WOULD have the most fun if it coincided with a decent levelling speed. The Architect, its abuse and its loss of activity ought to be evidence of that. I have fun with the game itself as much as the next guy, or I wouldn't have stuck with it for coming on six years, but when I get stuck on the same character at the same level day after day, week after week, I start to smell a big fat rat.

    Fun doesn't have to equal efficiency, but fun very often equal progress, and some characters played alone will NOT give you much progress.

    Quote:
    This is also assuming that everyone solos. This is NOT the case - most of us enjoy teaming to some degree, and it's the synergy of powers and tactics that makes teams rock and roll.
    No, nothing of the sort. This is assuming few people only ever play on teams and never, ever, ever solo. Since you are solo when you log into the game and you have to actually DO something to not be solo, I'd wager that many do solo from time to time. You have to do absolutely nothing to be solo, and there is NOT A SINGLE SITUATION where you cannot be solo. There are only situations where you ARE solo, but the game won't let you progress, which I would describe as universally unpleasant even to those who don't mind them. I have a really, REALLY hard time imagining someone going "I can't do this alone? Yes! Cool! Man, if I were able to do this by myself, this would have sucked so much!" I've nothing against wanting to team, I have nothing against disliking playing alone. I don't get WANTING to be unable to play alone.

    Quote:
    I'm not getting the impression that you view this as a tactical game as much as a brawler or shooter. I'm not saying either way is the right way (the nice thing about MMO's is how we all adapt our playstyles and still enjoy the underlying game) but at the same time, I'm finding it difficult to buy into the premise that since Damage is the only real way to defeat foes, that everyone really SHOULD do a lot of damage first, and other stuff second.
    That depends on what you define as a "tactical game." Because from what I've seen, the majority of people here seem to define tactics as "follow this guide I read/wrote for this particular situation." While that may indeed fit the dictionary definition of the word (it may, though I haven't checked), I would define this as "a job." Tactics, to me, is situational awareness - the ability to decide how to react to a given situation AS IT OCCURS. In this case, I very much view this as a tactical game, because I do my best to be constantly aware of my environment, my enemies and my allies. It is also why I avoid large teams because the chaos and sheer numbers make it impossible to for me to keep a sense of everything, so I'm reduce to just punching what's in front of me, having kicked tactics in the teeth as soon as I entered the mission.

    Furthermore, I don't define as "tactics" any of the approaches that are, essentially, "let's take 10 minutes per enemy group because it's safer that way." Constant pulls, constant minefields, constant waiting for this, setting up of that, preparing this other thing... If I'm going to be sitting on my hands while someone else "prepares," then I might as well go have lunch, and if I go have lunch I'm not exactly making much of my play time, am I? This is the big problem with both a lot of teams these days, as well as with a lot of "advice" people tend to give out. It always involves taking bloody ages to do even the simplest of things, and when you get to that point, you've already lost before the fight even started.

    Quote:
    And, I'd like to refer you to many many many mission arcs where my Stalker snuck past most (sometimes all!) of the mobs on the map, and took care of the objective and nothing else, completing the missions in a fraction of the expected timeframe. Was that fun? Oh hell yes.
    Doing this nets you next to nothing. Yes, you complete the mission in a fraction of the time, but you get an even smaller fraction of the total reward. I'm not going to get involved in the argument on stealthing missions, but when you try to define "fun" in this context, you tread deep waters that there is no escape from. Yes, it's fun. Hanging out in Pocket D, chatting with friends, racing, hunting for badges and so on and so forth - all of these things are fun for somebody, but they're hardly things that either the combat system in particular or the game in general ought to be balanced around. Much as it surprises me to be the one to say it, balance revolves around progress, with progress being defined as the game's ultimate goal. You can always make your own fun in the game, but if you're not progressing at a decent pace, something is wrong, as ultimately, design should strive to let people advance while doing what they enjoy.

    There is one and only one way to advance in City of Heroes - kill stuff, either directly or by teaming with someone who does. Everything else, even things that reward, is secondary to this. OK, caveat - Inventions. So let's rephrase it like this: two ways to progress - gain experience or garner drops. The only actually reliable way to gain experience is to kill stuff, by far and wide. A variety of things grant experience rewards, but none of them are as potent as killing stuff, not by a long shot. Not unless you find a specifically exploitable mission. Drops you get, once again, from killing things, or from completing specific tasks which, once again, require killing stuff for the most part.

    You can make your own fun, but as long as we're looking at an actual in-game system with its own balance, then the we HAVE to fallback on either the trite "risk vs. reward," or on the much more realistic "time vs. reward." You don't have to play for the rewards if you don't want to, but the game HAS to be balanced for them, or it creates a variety of unpleasant problems.
  7. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    Blasters cannot survive on their damage alone either. The biggest complaint about the fire primary and the fire secondary has been that it lacks mitigation. Furthermore, until Defiance added the ability to shoot while mezzed, Blasters on average were faceplanting at rates so much higher than everyone else that Blasters - All Powerset Combinations, All Levels, All Team Situations - were individually averaging lower performance than the average of all players in the same situation by sizable amounts *and* this was so unusual that *only* for the Blaster archetype could this be said.
    Prior to the Defiance changes, I completely agree. Post the defiance changes... They actually kind of can, and I can say this as the owner of quite a few. It's not safe, it's not easy, it's not pretty, but it is, at least in theory, possible for all Blaster combos, and I've tried everything short of Sonic. And it's no just a question of unloading all your damage and crossing your fingers. Some approaches work remarkably well and some approaches have the nasty tendency to kill you before you realise things aren't going very well.

    Quote:
    Also: BU and Aim are burst damage tools. They don't really increase damage by all that much. Assault is actually competitive with Aim, and not that far behind BU. The problem with both is that they have significant activation time (significant relative to their damage buff). Its this activation time - during which you cannot attack - that actually allows powers like Follow Up to provide similar (sometimes superior) return even though its numbers seem much lower.
    You know, Arcana, I've followed your numbers from the old days, and while I tend to unconditionally agree with them for the most part, I continually feel like you constantly neglect the benefit of pure, large-scale burst damage. Your description of it (which I lost track of to quote) sounds kind of out of scale with what I've been doing... Pretty much all day today. Yes, you can use Aim and Build Up to quickly reduce three enemies into two. If that's what you choose to do with them. I tend to use them to reduce 8 enemies to... Maybe 2. And I know I'll be kicked in the balls for saying this, but every Blaster combo should be able to do this, with the possible exception of Psychic Blast not paired up with Mental Manipulation thanks to a bizarre design choice to migrate the Psi cone from primary to secondary.

    The reason I've been bringing up burst damage over the years is that, yes, it doesn't really help all that much over time, but for Blasters more than for anyone else, "over time" metrics are comparatively a lot less meaningful. Especially for powers on a 90 second timer. As far as I've seen, if a solo Blaster allows a battle to last too much longer than 10-20 seconds, he's already in deep trouble before these metrics are even considered, because for it to have gone so far, something must have gone wrong. A Blaster who's on the ball can end a fight without suffering more than one attack from most enemies, which Blaster hit points can generally absorb with a good degree of comfort.

    And even if you don't feel like just cycling your AoEs every time, Aim and Build Up with the proper power choice can still pot-shot quite a few enemies before they run out. For instance, with a Fire/Fire Blaster, I can take down at least three enemies in 10 seconds, leaving at least three more within an inch of their life, to be one-hit-finished thereafter anyway. It comes down to proper application of firepower, and while it is NOT safe and NOT easy, it's not exactly rocket science to replicate fight after fight. And even basic slotting can give you Aim and Build Up back every other fight.

    Burst damage matters, especially in the hands of Blasters, and in their hands, it is a force of nature. I will say that, without a shadow of a doubt, NO ONE possesses as much burst damage as a Blaster at full tilt. Not even remotely in the same principality. THAT is a big ace up the sleeve.

    Quote:
    This is true, but its also true - since we were originally talking about how MMOs should be designed in the future - that you'll never see that again. The absolutely wild amounts of AoE that the game has, and the trivially miniscule compensating costs to using them, are one of the biggest offensive-side design errors the original team made. Its an error that I can say with 99% certainty will never be repeated again. Such massive AoE was never revisited by Cryptic in CoV, avoided to a large extent in CO, and along with superstacking buffs, accelerating survival curves, and AoE ally effects are probably on Castle's list of things to erase from Geko's spreadsheets if he ever finds himself in possession of a time machine.
    Well... I've heard that said a lot, and I can kind of agree, but then I kind of have to disagree. Large-scale AoE in terms of Blaster damage is something I see as being on the order of Scrapper complete soloability and performance. It was never intended, but I'd really have to roll my eyes backwards to describe it as a bad thing. Specifically since it has painted Blasters into a corner that has denied them direct self-protection of any kind for fear of the tank-mage boogie man. I, personally, enjoy Blaster AoEs not because they are some kind of instant I Win button (which they actually aren't), but because they give a lone character who is otherwise completely unprepared to deal with large amounts of enemies a tool with which to make progress. And that counts for a lot in my book.

    Frankly, Blasters wouldn't be the "kings of damage" without this. At best they'd be able to slightly out-match Scrappers in damage output, and at worst they would be (and were) just Scrappers but without the defences. Even today, with all the buffs, Blaster single-target damage isn't all that, and their single-target burst is still not that impressive compared to Scrappers. Yes, yes, they do more, but the difference isn't as big as the difference in survivability. What Blasters have is the ability to make spawns disappear under the right conditions, and that Scrappers CANNOT do. If you remove large-scale AoEs from the equation, you remove the point to having Blasters to begin with. I guess that might lead to something cooler, like an Assault/Defence powerset, but the raw power of Blaster destruction is one serious draw to the game, at least for me.

    In fact, it is this single-minded focus on large-scale destruction that keeps getting me to put up with all the niggling problems, all the annoying deaths, all the close calls and all the trudge and toil that come with playing a Blaster and just stubbornly keep playing them. Yes, it makes me want to tare the hair out of my nose a lot of the time, but one well-executed devastation and it all goes away in the face of self-satisfaction.
  8. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lucky666 View Post
    That mission where you saved ghost widow you do know is bugged right and although Ghost Widow conns as an AV she is actually boss class, and a long bow ballista EB shows up if i'm not mistaken and those things are nasty
    The mission is bugged in that the Ballista always spawns at level 40 even though you can take the mission at level 35, making him a +5 EB before difficulty settings. Ghost Widow having boss stats, however, is not a bug, it's cheeky design. For a while now, the developers have used class tags to lie to our faces, tagging NPCs as Archvillain or Hero when they are, in fact, simple bosses. Ghost Widow suffers from this, as does WMD, but the one most people should remember is Kadabra Kill. He's tagged as a Hero, but he is a boss. Yes, really.
  9. I actually have no hard and fast rules on comma useage, and as English is a foreign language to me, I tend to apply my own native comma rules to the English language... With mixed results.
  10. I'm surprised "rediculous" didn't make the list. This one has be boring holes in the backs of my eyes for years, and it will never stop!

    Also, there is something about using baloney/bologna to describe nonsense that I'm not quite sure about.
  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by LISAR View Post
    ...

    I'm very confused by whatever metric you use to judge "combat prowess" Samy.

    You say it's not damage but everything not damage seems to be unimportant to you.
    Well, on a purely personal level of purely personal preference, certainly. Everyone I play with will pretty much tell you that nothing ever does enough damage for me. But that's not the point in the long run, so much so as the ability to deliver this damage quickly enough to have a steady pace of progress and the ability to not die before doing so, and preferably not get hurt to the point of having to rest before Rest is recharged. Not all ATs can actually measure up to this, at least not from what I've seen.
  12. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vitality View Post
    First of all...there are NO damage centric ATs.
    Other than Blasters. I'm looking at my Fire/Fire right now and, unless I'm missing something, I can't see much else.
  13. I should point out that the reason the untouchable component even exists in the power is to prevent you from getting killed by the same things that killed you the first time before you are even up, and it's extended only slightly above what you expressly need both as a bit of breathing room and just for the sake of comfort and convenience. The likelihood of a power usable while alive which grants unconditional untouchability without the "only affecting self" component of phase powers is nil. Won't happen.

    The likelihood of a power granting 1000% damage resistance is still completely out of the question. First of all, there is an absolute hard cap on resistance that I don't remember, but I'm fairly certain it's no more than 500%. Secondly, gaining this much resistance from a single power is not something I would ever expect to see, because even with things like Unstoppable, you still get only sane levels of resistance, and can be subject to stronger resistance debuffs, such as large groups of Longbow Nullifiers like to lay down with their Sonic Grenades or, more crucially, such that large groups of Rogue Vanguard like to apply. I do know the defence hard cap is 500%, and I do know that a single power granting this much isn't likely to happen, as you still need to be eventually susceptible to defence debuffs. In act, once upon a time the major function of Elude was to put you so far above the cap that defence debuffs would be absorbed before they got to you. That was before defence debuff resistance, of course, but I don't see that suggested here.

    Finally, a power that is both a pretty snazzy offensive rez AND a limited-use God mode is just highly unlikely to happen. Moment of Glory, the closest comparison to what we're discussing, is so short specifically BECAUSE it provides such high levels of defence. If you look at the history of the power, you'll note that MoG's protection is something that has always called for radical drawbacks. Back when it still lasted 3 minutes, it drained you down to 10% hit points and did not allow you to heal or be healed. Removing that crippling drawback forced it to be replaced with a HIGHLY situational use by limiting the power to 15 seconds of duration. Not only is MORE protection in those 15 seconds not likely to show up in a power that can also resurrect you, but that plus offensive capacity plus self-heal is just not going to happen.

    I'd say that if we want to see Rise of the Phoenix AT ALL usable outside of combat, we'll have to restrict ourselves to use it either only as an attack, or only as a heal, and never as a God Mode.
  14. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
    Firstly, I'm not trying to "win," I'm trying to understand. And it's not a "problem" so much as me comparing my concept to yours. Personally, If I was to make a "fire mage," my first thought would be Dominator. Because in my concept of mage, the person would want to have all sorts of spells and abilities, and the only thing a Blaster can do is cause harm. Dominators can do so much more. I like Blasters, but if we're talking concept, Dom makes so much more sense to me.
    When I say "win," I mean "get through to me." There are certain things I'm open to being convinced about, and there are certain things where I'm simply immune to it. Concept tends to be one of those. In this case, it's theme. Dominators hold THEN kill. Blasters just kill. I pick Blasters for the job.

    [/quote]I disagree that Doms aren't damage-centric. Castle even said he was worried about suggesting the Dom change because the numbers he was suggesting would basically mean that Doms have two primaries. Secondaries are usually built to be weaker and to augment the primary, but in the case of Dominators, they have the highest base damage of any toon you can make redside. If that makes them "not damage dealers," I don't what to say.[/quote]

    Dominators are damage-dealers, but they are not damage-centric. This isn't a criticism of the AT, and it's hardly the reason I stopped playing them, but insomuch as it concerns the concept, it's the clincher. Dominators are control-centric, with the ability to deal decent damage, but unlike Blasters, they cannot survive on their damage alone. For one, a lot of them lack Build Up, and ALL of them lack Aim + Build Up. they have a lower damage mod than Blasters, especially on Ranged attacks, and lower by a not-insignificant amount. They have lower damage still by lacking Defiance, which I've found can contribute quite a bit if try to use it. They fall farther behind when you consider that they have far fewer direct attacks than Blasters, and that the bulk of them are single-target or small AoE. Blasters, by comparison, tend to have one, two and sometimes even more AoEs, all with gigantic areas of coverage and all with decent damage, to the point where most Blasters can insta-wipe minion spawns with them.

    Dominators also suffer from Defender hit points, which makes reckless abandon and direct offence a LOT more dangerous, to a degree that I was AMAZED at. You wouldn't think something so simple would make such a difference, but it does. Dominators can be survivable, but as I examined mine and asked for help with it, the recurring feedback was that I should focus less on my attacks and more on my controls, and possibly even leave attacks for later in the levels. Let me put it this way - having to pull slots out of already underslotted attacks just so that I can survive is not something I will do, and any AT which requires me to do so is not an AT I want to play. That, and being continually advised to tweak my difficulty so I was fighting fewer enemies but higher in level, which I consider a massive step DOWN in terms of visual appeal, is what caused me to delete my Dominator when I ended up needing the slot, though what I needed it for I don't remember. Another Mastermind, most likely.

    Quote:
    How long ago did you play Dominators? Because my Doms are definitely damage dealers.
    I played one up until level 31. And, yes, I'm aware of level 32. I have a friend who took the time to gasp at the stupidity of that choice on at least three separate occasions, but I had my reasons. For one, no AT that I despise playing for the first 32 levels is worth the remaining 28. For another, I'm not looking for just a single character I can play if I pick exactly the right powerset combo. I'm looking for an AT I can play with most any combo, and when I realised how much I did NOT look forward to starting a new one, I realised that I didn't want to stick with the AT. It deals damage well enough, certainly, but that is still overshadowed by the need to also dish out control, meaning it cannot be played like a Blaster (something that Dominator players told me probably a dozen times over), which is exactly what I was looking at them to replace CoV-side. These days, I don't need to bother, since I'll be able to just take Blasters CoV-side and will be able to stop shoehorning characters and playstyles in an AT that doesn't fit.

    The one biggest regret I have about not being able to jive with Dominators is that Control sets are the last thing in the game that I have never, in five years, had access to, courtesy of lacking an AT I could play that had them. Everything else I can get on the cheap. Melee, defence, blast, manipulation and summon are obvious, and I get support via Masterminds, but I just can't get a control set, as both control ATs play in a way I do not enjoy. Of course, I also lack access to Ice Melee and Ice Armour due to my dislike of Tankers, but that's one powerset combo, so it's not THAT big a deal, even though my first and favourite Brute started out as Ice/Ice in Beta.

    I think the only AT I haven't even tried playing seriously was Controllers, the prospect of which I just detest. Everything else I've played to some level, with Defenders and Corrupters not holding me for too long once I realise how many powers they have that I can't use on myself. I'm still trying to make peace with Mastermind resurrection powers. On the one hand, I don't want them, but on the other hand, needing one on the off chance I team and not having it both sucks and kind of puts me in an awkward position.
  15. Levelling rather a lot more restrictions, I can sort of see it, but I can still bet my right hand that a damage power of this size WOULD NEVER BE LEFT AUTOHIT. Ever. Not unless someone replaced Castle's brain with a loaf of bread. If you want to use this power when alive, the autohit has to go.

    Secondly, you seem to want to turn the power into a veritable God Mode with a few of the unneded utilities stripped out AND retain it as a self-rez. I don't see that happening. At all. Either you'll have to rely on it to be a lesser heal and damage power at a steep cost, or you'll have to rely on it to be a God Mode power. I don't see and wouldn't agree to both.
  16. Samuel_Tow

    Targeted AoE KBs

    Having AoE knockback scatter enemies is a sure-fire way to make people stop using AoE knockback powers. Like, you know, Explosive Blast. It's not realistic, but then neither is punching a person from seven feet away, so I'd rather keep the utility over the realism.
  17. Leaving toggles on while we edit other powers seems like a far-fetched idea, but actually SEEING what toggles look like in there HAS TO HAPPEN! Right now, if your toggle's effect turns on slowly, you may never even see it, or just see a faint transparent image of it.

    I'd say we either need to increase the time before toggles loop to something like 10 seconds, so we get some time of the toggle simply running, or we need to cut the activation altogether and just show the recurring effect. As it stands now, customizing toggles is a gigantic pain.
  18. Last one, I promise

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Slashman View Post
    I may not outright agree with Sam in his assessment, but I really hate this 'I'm needy and want to be needed' way of thinking that some MMO players have. Socializing in an MMO does not have to depend on handicaps. I solo a lot of the time. But I often team with my SG mates and other friends when we're on together. We don't have more fun because we're filling roles. We have fun because we like each other and enjoy spending time playing together even as we talk and laugh about life, friends and family. Our team composition is often 'sub-optimal' because some of us just like to play certain ATs and we don't feel pressured to make sure we get it 'just right'. We play and have fun anyway.
    That's pretty much the take I have on this. This idea that, just because this is an MMO and "should" be team-centric, then let's cut the legs off from under everyone so they have to prop each other up is one thing I've always found despicable, and one thing that has, for the most part, kept me out of other MMOs over the years. I've always felt that teaming should be a choice, not a mandate, and while I have nothing wrong with fat, slimy rewards hung in the distance to softly coerce me into teaming without me realising I'm being led by the nose, I do take slight when this is done via "your money or your life" mechanics, which is to say "team or die." It's a choice in the purely technical definition of the term, but no, it actually isn't a choice in the slightest.

    This brings me back to a recurring question - why must teaming be emphasised by restricting people from not teaming, rather than by rewarding people for teaming. Again, City of Heroes is probably the most lenient MMO I've played when it comes to this, but it is STILL designed with that in mind. And it's actually a pretty paradoxical design at times. Often, I see things thusly:

    Option 1: Hey, you there, team-centric dude! Yeah, I know you're having a hard time soloing, but with the way difficulty scales, you'd be incredibly more powerful than the sum of your parts if you got on a team and took on things other people couldn't handle without you.
    -This is great, now I just need to find a team!

    Option 2: Hey, you there, soloist thing! Yeah, you're really cool fighting things on your own, but I'll bet that eight of you can't handle eight people's worth of monsters unless you bring along someone who doesn't solo as well but multiples your power!
    -So? How likely am I going to fight more peoples' worth of monsters if I don't team with more people?

    The gist of it is that, yes, "teamers" are designed to start low, but be a great asset to a team, whereas "soloers" are designed to start high, but peter out against some of the team-specific challenges. But here's the thing - a teamer needs to alter the status quo, find a team, scale the difficulty and only THEN become truly needed. A soloer has to go out of his way to NOT be needed, which strikes me as a deceptively backwards design which came close to sinking Scrappers at some point in the ancient past, and actually sunk Stalkers before they were altered.

    Tangent aside, offer rewards rather than taking away ability.
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Soul Train View Post
    Even before the Defiance changes, I found 'blapping' on an Elec/Elec blaster rather fun. Yes there were faceplants. Sometimes you roll snake eyes.
    Then I have to pull the powerset card. Yes, Electrical Manipulation does have some nice tools to "blap." Devices does not. Assault Rifle/Devices has very little. Fire/Fire has a lot of damage, but no control, and a few garbage powers. Certain powersets do work. Certain powersets fail spectacularly. The point, however, is that before Defiance, Blasters were simply not tough enough for the damage they did, and I've seen more than a few instances of Scrappers consistently out-damaging them.

    This also goes down to speed of progress. Yes, sometimes you need to think the herd, which takes bloody ages. If you end up having to think the herd too often when a Scrapper never has to AND does the same damage as you BUT is several times more survivable, you start, or at least I started, asking myself the simplest of questions - why bother playing a Blaster when Scrappers were faster, hit harder and survived longer? The answer to that question was Defiance 2.0, but prior to that, the answer was a shrug.

    To quote Yhatzee: "OK, a dodge move that can't dodge ****. Yeah, I guess that would make for a hard game, but it doesn't seem like I'm being given much of a chance here." Essentially, yes, it's possible, yes it's doable, but no, it is indeed not in the slightest very much fun. Defiance 2.0 fixed that, but only just. Which I suppose was the point.
  20. Quote:
    Originally Posted by _UBV_ View Post
    So great, everyone can kill relatively fast, but now there's no AT for someone who wants to be an exceptionally tough Tank (25% damage 75% survivability/Stone Tank), or wants to be a glass cannon (100% damage/Fire Blaster).
    Your math is off, because you seem to have missed the point. In fact, you're just retreading ground I specifically wanted to get AWAY from. This notion that each character has 100% and that has to be divided between damage and everything else. Why? I realise "damage" is not the same as "combat prowess," but let's go with damage for simplicity.

    Why have 75% damage, 25% everything else? Why not have 1.0 damage between everyone, and then have 100% everything else divided by what else the other classes can do. Let's say...

    Damage + 50% survivability +50% control
    Damage + 100% survivability
    Damage + 100% control
    Damage + 50% control +50% support
    Damage + 50% support + 50% survivability
    Damage + 30% survivability + 30% control + 30% support + 1% extra
    Damage + 20% pets + 80% support

    See what I mean? Not damage (again, let's just roll with damage for now) at the cost of something else, not damage as one perk. Damage AND something else. Once you stop trying to wiggle damage in as a balancing parameter and just standardise it among the classes, then it becomes a basic game trait. You know, like the ability to run and jump. You still have classes, you still have specializations, you still have diversity, it's just over things OTHER than damage.

    And again, this isn't just about damage, but I picked that as the easiest example just to make the numbers work. And, no, I've no idea if this would be balanced, and it most probably would not be. It's just an example an an illustration, not proof of thesis.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
    Even when the overwhelming majority of foes don't just fold under a hit of damage and will persist and bother you? Many of which can easily kill you if you don't do something about them, and some of which can mez you if you don't mez them first? It seems like a mage would bring more than just damage (your example states fire, and fire does NOTHING else) to a fight. After all, if damage isn't working... well, you can't do anything else. You aren't taking other abilities 5th, you're taking them... never. Unless you count a single target hold from an epic with a long recharge.
    We're talking about concept here. "A single target hold from an epic with a long recharge" isn't exactly concept, now is it? A Dominator is not a dedicated damage dealer. I've played Dominators, and they are not damage dealers. Yes, they deal damage, but their focus is not damage. Nor are their damage-centric abilities all that impressive, either visually or practically. And if I want someone to reign destruction, I'm going to want massive fireballs and fire from the sky, not smoke and fire cages.

    You're not going to win this one. It's my concept, I choose what it should be. Doubly so, since I'll be able to have my cake and eat it, too, very soon, so I don't see why that remains a problem.
  22. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker View Post
    This is an MMO... the key word there is multi-player and ultimately City of is a team game. It's been dumbed down significantly over the years I've been playing and yet people still have a desire to be spoon fed and be able to rinse and repeat the toughest content with no challenge.
    Nowhere in the manual have I seen it explained that I am mandated to play with another person ever. It just suggests that I might want to. But just because other people exist in the game doesn't mean I have to team with them. Just because I CAN team doesn't mean I HAVE to. And, no, the game has not been dumbed down nearly enough.

    Quote:
    My personal view, which seems at odds with many here is that this game needs toughening up again. Things should be difficult especially solo. It's a game based on superbeings who are above the norm in every way and shouldn't be easy to wipe.
    Except, in this game we too are super beings that shouldn't be easy to wipe, yet that is exactly what you suggest the enemies do to us. The game does very much NOT need any toughening up. If you want it to be harder, you are welcome to increase your difficulty setting. You keep your hands away from MY difficulty settings and kindly avoid telling ME how hard MY game "should" be. I don't play it for the challenge, but I fail to see how that is any of your business.

    Quote:
    GMs & AVs aren't nearly as tough as they should be. They should be able to take an average small team down without blinking, and EBs should be able to do so to a solo character too. Taking out a named NPC in this game should be an epic occasion but instead it's mostly a slightly overpowered boss.
    GMs and AVs are more than tough enough for what they represent. Maybe you enjoy a game that constantly reminds you your character is an insignificant gnat and he needs the help of seven other people just to tie his shoes, but I do not. I enjoy the game when I am the hero of my own story, when I am strong enough to take care of myself and where THEY need to band together take on me, not the other way around.

    Your opinion is fine and all, but I fail to see why you can't have that now, when this is expressly why the difficulty settings were expanded upon.
  23. Initially, I had a big problem creating and playing villains I didn't hate, but I found a pretty good way around that. I don't enjoy BEING a villain, but as we all know, a good story needs a good villain, and creating one of those is what I use City of Villains for. It takes a certain level of detachment from the character (e.i. it's not me doing those things, it's him because he's just like that), but it does work in a big way. In essence, I create villains I actually hate, or rather love to hate. They're bad, they're nasty, they're clearly evil, but they HAVE to be in order for there to be a decent story.

    That's one part. The other part is finding a kind of evil that is reprehensible, yet NOT disgusting. A kind of evil with a sense of style that, if it weren't for all the bad things it did, you would actually like and admire. A kind of evil that, if you had a story where it had to team up with good to fight a greater evil, you'd think it was a kickass team. See, there's... Let's call it cool evil, and then there's disgusting evil. Cool evil is seductive, in that it's cool and you kind of want it, but it's evil, so you shouldn't want it. Disgusting evil is disgusting, so you hate it, and it's also evil, so you hate it even more. Playing something that is disgusting AND evil is unpleasant, but playing something that is cool and evil is actually kind of fun.

    I'll admit to one thing - I hate "kid" movies, that is movies where the protagonists are kids facing off against an adult evil. I hate them, for the most part, because they pass injustice off as justice. Here you have this cool, powerful, capable villain who's spent his life plotting, building up his forces and installing himself as the greatest threat the world has ever seen... And he's defeated by an arrogant brat because by pure accident because the plot says so. You see this carefully-constructed house of cards by someone who put so much effort and thought into it he deserves if not to win, then at least to fire all his guns and go down in a crowning moment of awesome... And he's defeated through sheer suck by "protagonists" who are both unlikable and undeserving of such a victory. That is simply not fair. So I enjoy villains like this, I tend to root for them, and I tend to be disappointed when they get taken out by a smiling with little effort because he was the chosen one. Screw that! All that tells me is that no matter how hard you work, some "chosen" brat can just come on over and ruin it all for you.

    Those are the sort of villains I enjoy - those who are capable, thoughtful, ambitions and driven enough to deserve SOMETHING, while at the same not going too far across the line just for the sake of being jerks. Convincing villains who actually do have a point, and whom you can't really shout down by showing the error of their ways. The kind of villain that makes people think "Might I do the same if I were in his shoes?"

    Basically, it comes down to finding a really, really cool villain
  24. Quote:
    Originally Posted by InfamousBrad View Post
    On YouTube (here) you can see the full half-hour main presentation on Going Rogue that was given at Herocon, it's in there.To be precise, it doesn't say that there's no level 20+ content; it just says that at level 20, you have to go to Primal Earth.
    That's odd. I've seen the Hero Con movie and I remember no such thing. I do know they talk a lot about revamping the 1-20 experience, and they do say that, at level 20, you have to choose whether you'll side with the Resistance or the Loyalists, but I remember nothing about going to Primal Earth. Since it's a 20-minute movie that I've already seen several times, I'm somewhat disinclined to watch it from beginning to end all over again, so if you can point me to at least a rough time of when this is said, I can have a look and see if I didn't miss anything.
  25. Samuel_Tow

    Blaster Nukes

    New day, fresh head, time for some numbers and probabilities. I'll try to explain as best I can without getting into anything too boring.

    Each nuke has three components - a 3.0 scale damage component that always fires, a 1.5 scale damage component that fires at a 75% probability and a 1.5 scale damage component that fires at a 50% probability. This gives you four situations - neither, just first, just second or both, with just first and just second doing the same damage, and so being the same situation for a total of three final situations. So what's the likelihood of any of them happening? What's the likelihood of the different damage components firing.

    Situation 1: Zilch. Neither additional damage component fires. This means that both components fail. The first additional damage component has a 75% chance to fire, so it has a 25% chance to fail. The second additional damage component has 50% chance to fire, and so a 50% chance to fail. The chance for both of them to fail at the same time, therefore, is 0.25*0.5 = 0.125, or 12.5%.

    Situation 2: One added damage component. This comes in two varieties.

    Situation 2.1: First additional damage component fires, second additional damage component fails. The first additional damage component has a 75% chance to fire and the second additional damage component has a 50% chance to fail, so the chance for the first one to fire while the second fails is 0.75*0.5 = 0.375, or 37.5%

    Situation 2.2: First additional damage component fails, second additional damage component fires. The first additional damage component has a 25% chance to fail and the second additional damage component has a 50% chance to fire, so the chance for the first one to fail and the second fire is 0.25*0.5 = 0.125, or 12.5%

    Situation 2 tally: With a 37.5% chance for the first additional damage component to fire and the second fail, and a 12.5% chance for the first to fail and the second fire, the net chance for this whole situation to occur is 0.375 + 0.125 = 0.5, or 50%

    Situation 3: Both additional damage components. The chance for the first additional damage component to fire is 75%, and the chance for the second additional damage component to fire is 50%, so the chance for both of them to fire at the same time is 0.75*0.5 = 0.375, or 37.5%.

    Final Tally:
    Chance for nothing - 12.5%
    Chance for something - 50%
    Chance for everything - 37.5%

    Basically, you have a very good chance of at least one additional damage component firing, a slightly less good chance of BOTH damage components firing, and a relatively remote chance of neither firing. To my eyes, that's good enough.