Samuel_Tow

I'm not really sure why that is, but yeah. Doesn't seem like a power can do a teleport, THEN an attack, which is why the current teleport attacks do this with a fudge - a teleport and a summon at the same time, with the invisible "pseudopet" attacking as you're in the process of teleporting. Just like you can't attack two separate targets with the same single-target attack, so you can't Teleport AND attack, yourself.

The armour getting "slaughtered" is kind of the point, as it would be balanced by its death (i.e. the cost of reapplying it faster than it breaks). Under such a system, you're going to NEED to see the armour break, and break a lot, otherwise it would be a zero-cost toggle, which is not good game design.

And, yes, I do envision both the player and the corresponding armour piece taking one instance of full damage. However, since the armour's hit points do not directly contribute to the player's survival until the armour actually falls off, this shouldn't produce a noticeable drop in survivability. It WOULD, however, produce a noticeable jump in cost, which is the point.

Again, I don't think it's a good idea to share damage between player and armour, as that sharing is not susceptible to enhancements, not susceptible to buffs and, more than anything else, not susceptible to debuffs. This gives the player absolute protection that only high levels of raw damage can overcome, booting pretty much the entire to-hit and resistance mechanic out of the equation.

*edit*
I'm not convinced that could work, as the damage a Mastermind sends to his henchmen is untyped, lacks an owner and has no logical connection to the damage type or source of the attack. I'm not sure if it even registers in the combat spam, but I can check. However, provided we CAN apply resistances to armour pieces, how about:

Each armour piece has minuscule health, say 100 hit points at level 50, but has 90% resistance to the elements it protects against, and only takes damage from those elements. In essence, you're covered in Metal Slimes. This makes the armour very resilient in its own right, but VERY susceptible to damage that ignores resistance, as well as to resistance debuffs. Strip down its resistance and the armour breaks like an egg shell. It'd be the equivalent of cascading defence failure for defence powers.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

So you didn't get what you wanted and now you get to proclaim what's worthwhile and what isn't? Sorry, but I'm not going to agree that easily the best Issue in the game was crap just because your run-on sentence says so.

To quote Spoony: "Yes! I CAN call ********! Let me count the ways!"

*Enhanced difficulty settings alienate teams: ********! It allows teams to ramp up the challenge to meet their power or lower it down if dying too much.

*Only good for someone who's farming: ********! It gives people the ability to tailor their experience to their preferences.

*Is not a good addition: ********! Along with SSK, this is easily the greatest game-wide mechanics change to happen to City of Heroes IN ITS ENTIRE EXISTENCE. Now those looking for challenge can have it without messing with those looking for an easy time and those looking for few, tough enemies can have that without messing with those who want many, weak enemies.

As well it should.

Yeah, I've only done the first couple of missions for Dean, but I already love the guy. As a contact, that is. As a person, I want to punch him, but it's the good kind of need Dean is the sort of guy who makes you slap your head and make that face a lot. But you know what? That's GOOD! It gives the dude some character, even if it's grating, and it makes me feel like the only competent man on earth who has to make sure Dean doesn't decapitate himself on his mobile phone. Instead of having ultra-professional contacts that act as if they're dragging us scum along, riding their coat tails, Dean is the kind of contact that makes me feel like I'm dragging HIM along.

And it's GRRRATE!

There's still a choice between beating them up to get their power and working with them to earn power like theirs. For a hero, the latter would be very much the way, but for a villain, the former is the only way to go. After all, by level 50, I've already handed Recluse his mask (along with his ***), so it makes sense for me to want to find other ways to screw with the guy.

Stuff like what? You get that in frikkin' GI Joe.

OK, now you're being just intentionally contrary, and it's about as cute as a gravel pit with a Sarlac in it.

"One of his most trusted followers?" After I broke his face in the future, humiliated him in front of his lieutenants and was told by Recluse himself, that he's not going to try to mess with me anymore? Yeah, GG, why don't you play villain-side first before trying to make wild guesses as to what red-side fiction implies? Because you keep missing the mark by a continental divide.

Well, OP, I hope this puts your mind at ease now.

Because for myself, the most fun I've had with the game has been since I16. People always quick to dismiss new additions because they don't offer "moar stuff," completely ignoring how much value things like power customization add to the game. I don't remember the last time I made a new character and DIDN'T fiddle with power colours. The Demon Summoner I (obviously) made would not have been HALF as cool with that sickly greenish-yellow fire that comes as default, but looks monumentally better with the snowy-blue fire he has now. I'm sure someone will think my fire is butt ugly, because he liked his tar black fire, instead. That alone shows you how much potential such an addition has.

What's a new mission arc going to do by comparison? I'll play it once, it'll take me a day, maybe two, and then I'm back to square one. Power customization, on the other hand, is something I benefit from and use all the time.

Sorry to quadruple-post, but I LOVE this idea. I keep trying to think of ideas as to how the contacts will want to work for us (you know, like contacts in the real world do) rather than us working for them, but this is EVEN BETTER!

Picture the following. Your villain learns where the owner of an affluent bank lives. So he walks up to the man, and the bankers is all like "What are you doing in my home! Help! Somebody call the police! Wait, stop! M-maybe we can talk about this?" You get your info, hit one bank, but then you keep coming back to him for more. More information on his company, information on other banks, maybe even getting him to scam another bank director or two for you to kidnap.

This has the benefit of being particularly vile, but it also has the benefit of actually being proactive AND being the kind of villainy that brings you respect and fear. You're not working for your contact. He's not even working for you. He's holding on for dear life and doing what you say. Now why can't we have a few of those?

This really is all that needs to be said. There is no reason why playing a villain should result in a much more miserable, much less inspiring experience. No convincing reason, at least. Yes, villains in real life tend to take a lot of crap, but this is not real life. We're playing a game, and whether we choose to play hero or villain, we deserve a compelling experience.

We shouldn't be trying to explain away why it makes sense for everyone to treat us like dirt. This simply should not happen unless the game supports a way to do something about it, which City of Villains does not.

That's kind of the point, though. Unrealistic philosophical debates aside, not having to do with jerkass contacts who show utter disrespect and actually threaten us is the name of the game here. The game's actual practical structure doesn't need to change. It's tone and writing do. And while I know you're not a fan of the game "pretending" to be about contacts working for us because the practical reality doesn't reflect this, I still maintain that that kind of illusion is strong enough to trump reality, especially for those that want to be more meaningful villains.

No! Screw Recluse! Stop trying to shove Recluse into everything. Stop tying every blood plot point to Arachnos. Stop trying to sell missions as tasks for Arachnos.

I don't want Lord Recluse to send me ANYWHERE, and if the Incarnate system assumes that, then it will be a huge pile of FAIL right from the start. If I'm going after the powers of the Incarnates, then I want it to be on MY authority, looking to take the power for MY own personal use by MY devices. If contacts are required to do this (which they probably will be), then have them offer to help me. Do NOT NOT NOT have them out and out order me to go get Incarnate power.

No. Just no. Arachnos can go to hell. Enough with the Arachnos. I don't care about them. I don't want to serve them. I don't want to put up with them, and I sure as HELL don't want new content to be about them.

Yup

Yeah, that's an ever-present problem on these boards, and I'd lie if I said there haven't been a bunch of ******** who lend some credence to that supposition, but overall yes, one has to make a distinction between the player, who is generally a decent person, and the villain character for whom the story is written.

"I could but I don't want to" is a much easier conceptual fudge than "I want to but can't." Simple as that.

Hence proving you didn't read a word I said, since I specifically explained this, in detail, here. Let people work towards their plots, just don't let them achieve them. That's still VASTLY superior than never letting us even try. Additionally, why do you assume that ruling the world has to start in the Isles, or even INCLUDE the Isles? If I wanted to rule the world, I'd do so out of my volcano island base with my man-seeking missiles.

Again, who gives a crap about the Isles. Given half a chance, most people would ship out of them in a heartbeat. The player distribution between heroes and villains reflects this wonderfully. And no, it's not JUST because people want to be the good guys.

Because I don't WANT to? Stop and think for a minute, please. This is exactly what SpittingTrashcan was talking about. Why do you assume we WANT to take over Arachnos? Why do you assume we WANT to mess with Paragon City? Who gives a crap about either?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't we been talking about how it's not a question of ability but a question of narrative all this time? That we don't need to be able to REPLACE recluse in the practical sense as long as the game makes it feel like we COULD?

So? Did you somehow fail to read where I said this was a GOOD arc and a GOOD example of what I want?

[quite]That Dr. V and his faction will still be in the game - that defeating and arresting him has no imapact on the game world - because MMOs can't allow one player to affect the experience of all the other players.
You can arrest Countess Crey, but zone directly to Brickstown after you've done it, and you'll find the place crawling with Crey, and the general public being unaware of how corrupt the corporation is.
Pass through IP on your way to PI to rescue Statesman, and you'll see him standing on the deck of a ship - take down Reichsman, and you'll see the 5th Column successfully continuing their comeback on the streets.[/quote]

So what? Nowhere in anything I've said did I complain about that. I specifically talked about instanced missions and the stories they tell. I'm fine with them not having an effect on the shared world. How many times do I need to write that before you're going to read it?

Riddle me this: Who cares? Go back and quote me from any place where I said I did. Go back and find a quote that says I want to change the canon world, then put it here with a link to the original post. Because I can guarantee I never said this. GG, I mean no offence, but you spend too much time listening to your own ideas of what people might be saying and too little time actually reading the words I'm putting on the forum. Read more carefully, please.

Let me say it again - I do not want to alter the world for other people. I do not want to affect other people. I do not want my exploits to be seen by others. I do not need others' recognition. Let the world stay exactly like it is. I don't mind. Let other people repeat the same things I've done. I don't mind. Let villain groups stay on the street after I've taken down their leaders. I don't mind. There's the usual explanation that it will take a while for them to disperse, and "a while" just happens to take forever.

Do you get me? Are you reading this? Should I say it again? I DO NOT WANT TO CHANGE THE STATIC WORLD. I WANT MY STORIES ABOUT MYSELF TO TAKE PART IN INSTANCES NOT AFFECTING THE REAL WORLD. Please, take the time to read this over several times, because I really don't want to explain why it doesn't matter that our actions don't affect the real world and how the game can fake it anyway.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? I don't know if I'm some kind of jabbering idiot who's incapable of relating a simple thought, or if you just skim over everything I've written, picking up only the words I type in all caps. Because everything I've described fits very well into what you're presenting as a rebuttal.

Just like I can be busy defeating Dr. Vahzilok while someone else is still trying to figure out if he's a real doctor and someone still else has already fought and forgotten him, so I can have an instance where I flip Daos the birdie and have to fight out of an Arachnos jail while someone's already speaking with him. You know, kind of like it is with the Statesman and with all the Patrons when we fight them. That's a question of writing, and the writing can and SHOULD put me in conflict with the people giving me tasks. It should let me question them, it should let me defy them. It shouldn't expect me to just take every mission with nary a word of contempt. When Hardcase threatens to unleash demons on me, I don't want to fold. I want to slap him in the face and go have a look at his demons. Simply have the next mission be me fighting a bunch of really tough demons. Easy as pie. You can still spin it as to why I didn't help Vivacious. Have her double-cross me, for instance, and make THAT force me to stop her plot.

If I can have a base to my name that has NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on the real world, then why can't I have a base that contains a non-functioning death laser that I need to run missions to build? If I can have a base, why can't I put guards and soldiers in it? If I can have my own base, why can't I have a small slice of some alternate dimension? Why can't I have my own Shadow Shard fort? I'm pretty sure the Shadow Shard is big enough for all of us. MY stuff doesn't need to affect the real world, because I don't WANT to affect the world and alter other people's stories. I want to alter MY story, which doesn't require the world to change in the slightest.

Easy example: I do not want to replace Recluse and rule the Rogue Isles. I want to replace "some dictator" and rule "some island" out there "somewhere" in the sea. I don't want to take over Arachnos and rule over their soldiers. I want to take over "some faction" and rule over "some soldiers." I don't want a statue of myself in Atlas Park. I want a statue of myself in "some place" in the city. I don't want to be strongest hero of Galaxy City. I want to be the strongest hero of "some zone." I don't want to alter the status quo. I want to alter my own instance of it that no-body can see unless I invite them.

There is PLENTY of room left OUTSIDE of the persistent world where our own, unique, personal stories can be weaved without getting in the way of other people. That's the point.

An interesting point to make about villains and their evil plots:

Evil plots are interesting as they develop. They are rarely interesting after they have succeeded. If the plot is to "destroy the world," that's for obvious reasons, but even a plot to rule the world isn't as interesting after the fact. It's basically a whole new ballgame that has to start from scratch.

Some people worry about giving villains the ability to weave elaborate, status-quo-changing plots, because of the consequences that will have when they complete them. Well, the solution to that is... Don't let them. Say I want to destroy the world. I've crossed my Ts and dotted my Is and I need a megabomb, a computer to run it that doesn't exist yet, more Unobtanium ore than exists in the entire world and a tunnel dug into the core of the planet. That's a lot of work, so I better get to it! Thing is, that's the sort of thing that's going to define my entire career. I'm never really going to be done with that, because if I AM, I might as well just delete the character, because there's nothing he could conceivably do more, and not for lack of a world to do it in.

This is something I actually think about every time I make a new villain. What is going to motivate that villain to keep pressing forward? What goal would this villain have that wouldn't have been achieved before I even started writing about him? What could be this thing he is trying to do that takes a lifetime, that is his main reason for existence? For some it's simple things like world domination or destruction. For another of mine, it's the invention of a specific kind of technology which provides unlimited power. His quest is to find and examine the world's technology and basically work on his tech. For another it's the elimination of all "evil," for a definition of evil that encompasses practically everyone who isn't him or his direct followers. That's a tall order, so his whole life he'll be gathering supporters and leading crusades. For another still it's much simpler - eternal life through constant life-extending practices via Necromancy, as well as the rebuilding of his original power.

The point is, I don't envision these characters ever actually getting to that point, because there would really be very little for me to actually do with them after the fact. Good characters, both hero and villain, need some kind of motivation, and unless the game wants out and out END, which most MMOs don't, it won't really let us complete that motivation. Hence, big villainous plots can be left dangling and uncompleted, while smaller ones, like building an island fortress, stealing The Jewel of Madeupia, building a better mouse trap, replacing your brain with a hamster in a hamster wheel and so forth, those can be achievable, if only because they change things that don't affect other people.

However, even though I don't expect major plans to be achievable, that's not really the point. It's not destroying the world that's fun. It's trying to that makes things exciting. Trying to, and indeed failing. It's what keeps comic books rolling

Here's a question for you. If these are side quests, what is "the main quest?"

So? You can say the same about instances and that doesn't stop them from being tailored to the particular player. Just now in a mission I was doing, I found a clone... Of me! Soon as I left the mission, I was back in Sharkhead, but that didn't seem to do much to diminish the effect.

Yeah, if City of Heroes or City of Villains were ever conceived of being about "sharing a common space," that idea got booted out the window so hard five years ago it's probably still in high orbit. THE WHOLE GAME, for practically any interpretation of the term you want to use, is instanced. We have outdoor zones that we use to travel from point to point and occasionally waste time with delivery missions in, and ever so rarely we fight a giant monster or do some hunting. However, THE PLOT takes place in instanced missions, unique to each team, unique to each person, tailored for the small-scale, private, unshared experience.

You can argue semantics all you want. This is the reality of the game. This is how things already are. I'm just asking for the developers to finally admit it and work towards that, rather than worrying about "what ifs." If everyone can beat Dr. Vahzilok and be the one who beat Dr. Vahzilok, what are you really trying to say?