Samuel_Tow
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Posts
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Quote:That's my point, as well. The Incarnate system should not start us over from being underdogs. We can start new characters if we wanted that. It should account for and recognise the 50 levels of adventures and empowerment that led up to it. Is the Well not said to seek out creatures of great power, after all? Is that not why it sought us out?Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
We're well into the book unless you discount the first 50 levels. And five or six trials in, when we've achieved the kind of power only AVs and named NPCs can reach, we're no better off than a Hellion in Atlas Park -
Quote:The Well of the Furies, the Origin of Powers and all of that is immaterial. What we were promised was "the power of the gods." That's what's in Ramiel's original arc, which is where we're supposed to be hearing about Incarnates for the first time. What people asked wasn't something something to DO, it was some way to PROGRESS, and going from being able to take on whole squads of enemy robots to getting stoned to death is not progression. It is, as a point of fact, a regression.Originally Posted by Premonitions
I was under the impression that the "Incarnate" content was, originally "Stuff to do post-fifty" content, certain people asked for "Epic" content, or maybe just a specific story, and the devs tied the, most often hated, frequently ignored "Origin of power" idea to it. Again, Don't most people actively ignroe and dislike the Origin of Power arc? Why, besides something usually ignored and disliked, I.E. the well, I.E. the "Inarnate" aspect of things,is the content unavailable and impossible to "human" characters?
It's a war story against a tyrannical dystopian dictatorship, that's all. The fact that it was tied after the fact to an oft-maligned background bit of lore is the problem, not that it fails to meet said bit of bad story-telling. Ignoring Ramiel(which you can do so long as one of your characters has run his arc, and gets the right amount of merits) is both easy, and honestly, recommended.
As to "human" characters, it's not a matter of origin. It's a matter of power level. The Incarnate system is supposed to make us like unto gods. It's supposed to make us overpowered. If you can explain why your street-level hero is able to catch tank shells in his teeth or why your street-level hero is able crane-kick through thick armour plate, then you are more than welcome to do so and no-one will hold it against you. But if you CAN'T justify why your street-level hero is suddenly godlike, then the system simply doesn't fit you. That's not a good argument for why our characters should be losers in these stories.
There is no reason to have an Incarnate STORYLINE if we're just going to slide around sideways until we eventually tumble over backwards into being rookies all over again, with insulting justifications like that we're starting over, as though the last 50 levels didn't matter. The story should grow bigger, grander and more cosmic, not shrink down in size to brawling with civilians.
This is literally the same as that one Malta plot to discredit a certain heroine by knocking her out, then making it seem like she screwed up, got the building blown up, a whole bunch of civilians killed and all of it because she lost to the Skulls. The two level 15 Skulls in a level 40+ mission, clearly out of their depth judging by their conversation, are an amusing addition. But that's exactly what this is - it's one step removed from a smear campaign. Incarnates should not be fighting civilians, and if they did have to fight them for some contrived reason, then they should absolutely NOT lose to civilians. Someone who took down a Kronos titan by himself (many of my heroes have) should not go down from a rock. Not even a green rock. -
Quote:I don't know what it is, but I've never been able to find the new items listed in the "New Items" list. The Store keeps insisting that Beam Rifle just came out and that's the newest thing I should be looking to buy. I saw Titan Weapons in there, but having looked through all of the available "New Items" did not reveal a bonus pack. I had to search for it by name.Originally Posted by Kioshi
I found it as soon as I opened the market, it was right below or above the TW powerset but well doesn't matter now.
Yeah, they probably should reprice it, or just not make it into a pack at all. Just releasing the weapons into the Market by themselves would suffice. People don't have to look for them in the store, as costume items can be bough from the costume editor directly. Really, though - the price isn't the issue so much as the pack's availability at all. At the very least, I'd like to see the pack available in the store, but listed as "Not Purchasable" just so people know it exists but can't be bought yet. I'd even rather deal with the "Unknown SKU" problem than to just not have it in the game at all.Quote:Originally Posted by Kioshi
I think they might reprice it and that may be the reason it was taken out, 400 points is too much for 4 weapons. A stand alone weapon is 60 points iirc (I think that's what I paid for the gunslinger pistols and the vanguard katana), so 200 points for the pack would be more like it imo. -
Quote:I didn't see the pack on the Market at all, because the Paragon Market's "Featured" and "New" items sections are hopelessly broken and either show old items or show only some of the new items. I had to ask on the forums about it, then I was told that a Weapons Pack even existed. I'd assumed that the weapons would come with my purchase of the set and that a separate pack wouldn't come until later, or that the pack would be included in the purchase. I wouldn't have even known a pack existed if people on the forums hadn't told me.Originally Posted by Kioshi
Well I didn't actually read the announcement on the pack till later and wasn't even planning on buying TW at the time (as I said, bought it 2 days ago) - I just saw the pack for 0 points in the market and thought 'hey it's free like the whatever badge so I'll grab it'. Only a few hours later I read in the forums it was a limited offer.
Secondly, I really wouldn't have minded if you had to have the set in order to buy the pack, provided the pack stayed in the store afterwards for a price. That's not exactly what happened. The pack DID sell for 400 points for at least a day - another friend of mine brought it up, I went to check and there it was, for a price - then it vanished entirely.
As good as City of Heroes is, I sometimes wonder if Marketing people aren't secretly conspiring to sink it with marketing decisions like this. -
I tried to tell people the same, as well, but I failed to keep track of all the people I knew, and some returned to the game after Titan Weapons came out and after I made the point to tell everyone. I get that it's kind of a case of ignorance, but that just makes the design come off as even more convoluted. Buy it now that it's free because you can't have it later when you'll actually want to pay for it!
I honestly wouldn't have minded if the Titan Weapons themselves were put on the Market as separate pieces, priced the same as the Valkyrie Sword or the Vanguard Axe. If they can't fit a pack, they don't have to. -
Tunnel Rat, I'd like to bring a couple of issues to your attention, and I want to bring them to you personally because I've been reporting these bugs since I16 and nothing has happened with them. I hope that if you see what I'm talking about, you'll recognise why these are genuine problems.
First is a problem with Forcefield Generator from the Mastermind -> Traps powerset. When not customized, the power works correctly. However, when set to Colour Tintable, the forcefields the generator puts on other people become displaced. The forcefields only track people's absolute position, but in no way account for the character's animations - they are not bound to the model, but rather to the model's location. This is immediately obvious because the forcefields are set too high and people's legs stick out from below. It's also obvious because many animations - Titan Weapons especially - cause us to lean, duck or jump out of our forcefields which do not follow us. I even have pictures.
This is what Forcefield Generator looks like when I colour it yellow:
Notice how my character's butt and legs are outside of the forcefield. Notice also how the forcefield is slightly above the ground, this making it impossible for anyone standing to be inside it. Notice also how my character is scrunched down towards the bottom of the forcefield, yet the field will not come down to cover him.
Compare this with how the Original Forcefield Generator forcefield looks:
Notice how much better the field is here. My character is wholly enveloped with the field, which has come down, intersected with the ground and is following the position of his torso. Yes, my legs are still off to the side and the character is sitting left of centre, but that's because the forcefield follows his chest like a backpack. Also, even though he's displaced, he is still inside the forcefield, thus looking like the field is doing its job. If he were to use Total Focus or Arc of Destruction, the forcefield would move with him as he hopped and leaned back.
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Then there is the other issue: Poison Gas Trap. This one I've reported till my fingers turned red and I don't get why nothing has happened to it. When not customized, Poison Gas Trap works just fine. When given custom colours, however, it's really bad. As you know, Poison Gas Trap summons a bottle - a vial of poison, presumably - which, when triggered, sprays an aerosol out and creates a cloud of gas. The problem is that the Poison Gas Trap's custom colours only apply to the bottle and the spray it shoots out, but NOT the cloud of poison gas it creates. This is always the same light cyan colour irrespective of what colours I pick. Have a look:
Notice how the bottle is a purplish pink and the spray is a combination of red and blue. The power is using a Colour Tintable theme, and I have coloured red and blue because it produces what looks like a foul, toxic, noxious-looking chemical. The bottle is pink because the colours mix, and the spray is blue and red. However, notice the cyan cloud of gas that looks almost like steam. That's the "poison gas." A bottle full of pink liquid should not produce a cyan gas cloud, at least I don't want it to do that. I want to have control over the colour of the poison gas cloud if that's at all possible. However, there really is no point in customizing this power if we can't customize the cloud, because the cloud is by far its biggest effect.
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I am right now forced to use the Original theme for both Forcefield Generator and Poison Gas Trap. Especially Poison Gas Trap, I would really, REALLY like to customize to match my blue and red Acid Mortar for which ALL effects customize properly, but I can't. I can't because the custom tintable version of the power doesn't actually tint. I've grown used to using the default Forcefield Generator just because it matches the forcefields from the Protector Bots, which I can't customize, but the Poison Gas Trap is something I'd really, REALLY like to swap the colour of.
I have it on good authority that Trip Mine doesn't take custom colours correctly - it ignores its secondary selection entirely - but I don't have the power on hand to test it yet. That's just what I remember from a collection of Devices Blasters I have since deleted.
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Please understand that I don't ant to bug you about this personally, but submitting bug reports about these issues has simply not helped, and I think I16 to now is a long enough wait time.
*edit*
Is it possible to get Detonator to have a tintable explosion, or is the power too convoluted to customize? -
Remember when the Titan Weapons powerset came out, they launched a weapon pack with it that had four extra weapons? Well, a friend of mine said he couldn't find it, I looked and I couldn't find it, and now I'm being told it's been taken off the market with the promise that it might be back at some point. I thought the idea was to put it online for free for those who wanted to purchase early, and then make it paid the rest of the time. What possible reason could there be to take it off the Market? All that means is people will be that much less interested in buying Titan Weapons. I know I would be. This isn't even a season-related or holiday-relevant pack to argue that it's just for the holidays. In fact, today is Christmas and the pack is gone. I looked for it a few days ago and it was there, it just cost 400 points, but now it's gone?
Can anyone explain this to me? Maybe tell me that I'm wrong, that the pack is still on the Market and I just can't find it, that people are giving me false information or that there's some kind of technical issue that's preventing the pack from being on the market, like the "unknown SKU" thing. Anything that doesn't force me to accept that someone suggested "Hey, let's take away half the weapons in our newest weapon set for Christmas day!" and someone else agreed with this. Because that just blows my mind.
I don't want to throw blame around when I don't know all the facts, so I sincerely hope that either I'm dead wrong or there's something unavoidable going on, because otherwise, this is just... Baffling. -
Quote:I got the "indentured servitude" nonsense from your nonsense assertion that I owe the studio jack squat. I pay my subscription, I buy from their Market, I praise the game to all of my friends and I support the community as best I can. And half these things I don't have to do. That, to my eyes, is more than enough return for the service I'm getting. I don't, therefore, owe the studio to keep playing their game when I no longer have fun in it.Originally Posted by Tyger42
Yes, punishing the studio. I don't know where you got that idiotic "indentured servitude" nonsense, though. Yes, removing his payment to them because of a player being a jerk. Sure, it may factor into the "is it fun" thing, but, really, it's not Paragon's fault. Pretty sure what he described was a reportable incident, too. Just seems stupid to quit the game as a knee-jerk response to one person's (richard) move.
You keep saying "punishing," but I don't think that word means what you're using it to mean. What you want is "hurting" the studio. "Punishment" is a penalty applied for some transgression, with the implied intent to make some entity pay for that transgression through pain or discomfort. What's happening here, however, is a very natural thing for a player to do - to leave a game. Whether that hurts the studio or not is immaterial, because the player is not leaving to spite Paragon Studios or to try and tank their game. He's leaving because he dislikes playing the game.
Yes, the reason is stupid, but that doesn't make it punishment in the slightest. Not unless you want to infer we, as players, have a duty to support the studio that our failure to live up to has to be inferred either as ineptitude or malice. Now THAT is nonsense, because people leaving a game is not an evil thing and is not, in and of itself, a subject of animosity. You can't blame players for leaving, no matter their reason, because that is their right to do, and no-one can argue with them. It is neither my business not yours what people do with their own time and money.
I find that a business does best when it has a positive rapport with its people, and they feel comfortable with choosing what to do and how to do it. A business which is emotionally manipulative and tries to guilt people out of leaving is one business that would lose my own subscription right quick, as is a business who demonises people that don't comply. We buy into these games to have fun, and the last thing I, personally, need at a time when I'm not having fun is people accusing me of betrayal. -
Quote:When I say "presentation," I don't mean "explanation." The game's presentation is the way in which it uses its theatrical tools to weave its practical mechanics into a story. "Presentation," thus, is the story that is being told and the tone it is being told in, as examined separate from the game's mechanics. In other words, if I were completely illiterate of the game's underlying engine and only ever understood the story as it was being told to me, then I would be subject solely and only to presentation.Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
As this thread develops, I'm coming down more heavily on this side, but that wasn't my original position. If the civilians had managed to "raid" a warehouse (read, been given by the Praetorians) and gotten a cache of weapons and were then being directed to attack by the Telepathists who debuffed us, I'd shrug and say "ok, it's crap writing but I can understand it."
The solution to a case of bad presentation is not to excuse it or explain it, though that sometimes helps. The solution is to fix the story so that it better represents the characters taking part in it and better presents the events taking place. If players are unhappy with a certain mechanic - say the I4 Boss Buff - you can try and explain to them why you feel it's the right thing to do, but if they simply don't like it, then eventually you end up having to change the mechanic, because it's either that or Henry Ford's "You can have it in any colour, as long as it's black." Fixing presentation goes much the same way - explain as far as you can, then start changing things around.
I wouldn't call it condescending so much as wrong-headed. I know that Zwill isn't on the writing team and from his comments I infer that he's not actually "in" on why the story was written as it was. What we're seeing is his own self-justification for the way things are. In a sense, he's in the same position we are - that's how the story is, that's what was written, figure out a way to deal with it. This is his: The Writer moves in mysterious ways, and we were probably intended to be humbled by the experience.Quote:Originally Posted by Scarlet Shocker
Zwillinger's position of "learning to run before we walk" is actually very condescending in this context. That's what the first 50 levels are for and we're at least half-way through the whole Praetoria thing. If by this time teams of 24 Incarnate heroes with three level shifts apiece are being felled by normals with stones, even with the debuffs from Telepathists, That doesn't tell me this is a challenge, or that it's story progression. Rather it tells me the Dev story team has lost the plot and is bereft of ideas and have to bring in yet another cheat mechanism to meet their perception of "exciting."
At the same time, his comment is missing the problem people have with being stoned entirely. The rocks aren't the real problem. They're just a symptom. People could have taken us down with knives or pistols or their bare hands and it would have been just as bad. The problem is that people expect a progression of respect that the game shows them, they expect to be done learning to walk, run and super-speed and for the Incarnate system to let them do something more. The entire point of this whole idea was to take us one step beyond, to exceed anything we've done so far, to bring our powers up beyond what we had and send us on adventures like never before.
Players expected "more" from the Incarnate system, and they're getting "less," instead. That's the fundamental problem at the bottom of the stack, and it's a problem that cannot be explained away. The key mistake, I think, is seeing Incarnates as essentially a whole other game that you start from scratch when you reach level 50, and it shouldn't be seen that way. Incarnates are a continuation of our hero and villain careers. It is not a new start or a new beginning, it is merely the next stage, and we should NOT be treated with less respect on the next stage than we did on the previous one.
There is no learning to walk. We already learned to walk. Build on what you have, don't sidestep it and start over because "fighting god would be boring." Fighting gods is the whole point! -
Quote:The problem is that, in both cases, you still end up having to think of the mechanics first and the story second. As far as I'm concerned, a writer should be required to supply a story synopsis that he can retell in real time as one would retell an old memory, and only once that's done start trying to figure out how to put that into the game. Yes, many concessions will have to be made with the story when it's translated to the Architect, but at least there will BE a story that's being translated.Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Actually, I've said this before, but I think they should be forced to use Architect to sketch out their arcs before they even start thinking about adding special mechanics and unique maps. This would force the writers to think of the story first and add mechanics to help tell it, rather than coming up with a cool new mechanic and shoehorning a story in around it.
I've seen this repeated in a lot of Architect stories - plot elements seem to pop up for the sake of justifying why a boss exists, why an ambush spawned or why an NPC needs to be led somewhere, because the author thought these were cool mechanics and wanted to put them in. Yes, the text caps would limit the story's verboseness and the limited mechanics will make for a simpler, more intuitive experience, but it won't solve the one big problem I have with the storytelling - that it's not telling stories, it's explaining why missions exist.
When Rick Dakan and his crew - and I keep coming back to them - originally made the City of Heroes "world," they didn't just put stories in, they tied them into the overall plot of the game and accounted for how these stories related to the rest of the world and how the rest of the world conspired to set them in motion. The Circle of Thorns didn't just show up one day. Baron Zoria "founded" them in the early 1900s, after which point they still kept to their caves until the first Rikti invasion, when Circle strongholds were targeted by the aliens for their magical affinity, which the Rikti fear, causing the Circle to become more active out of reactionary paranoia and pent-up frustration. Then it turns out that's just one layer on top of a much deeper story.
We just don't get that with anything newly added. What the hell is SAM? When were they founded? What is their relationship with the FBSA? What is their jurisdiction? How long have they been in operation? No, we don't get any of that. Someone needed an official-sounding organisation and apparently didn't know the FBSA existed, so *poof* SAM! It's a concept that should have come with its own backstory and depth, but instead it's little more than a device to move the plot along, and that's a cryin' shame.
Oi, does Sefu have horribly annoying powers! Yeah, I've wanted to yell at the guy... But the truth is, he's written as such a lovable lump that I can't bring myself to be angry at him. To be honest, when I AM angry, I'm angry at the power designers for giving him Repulsion Field. But it's not his fault! Honest!Quote:Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Fusionette is an idiot. Her dialogue and story actions support this. When someone spouts lines like "quit looking down my dress or my boyfriend will beat you up" they will not be liked. Sefu Tendaji has annoying powers, and he gets captured twice in the RWZ storyline, and yet he manages to avoid being the butt of constant jokes.
And, yes, Fusionette is an idiot. She has not a single redeeming quality about her. She's rash, incompetent, arrogant, insolent and - bad as that may sound - ugly as a board. When he still went by the name of Jim Temblor, Faultline was actually a very pleasant character, his rudeness and insecurity being nicely balanced by his compassion and the tragedy which essentially stole his childhood from him. He is at time humorous, but he is also deeply dramatic, and I respect the balance he strikes. Then he moves into the War Zone, calls himself Faultline and starts sending mistells to Fusionette in team chat because someone thought breaking the fourth wall was funny. In the War Zone, Faultline is dumber than a sack of hammers, he's incompetent and he has no personality. He's a Vanguard soldier with a face, but he may as well be Lt. Random Name for all his personality matters for the plot.
That really depends on how it's done. If it's a meanspirited "revenge" kill just to satiate the malice of people who hate her, then yes, there will be much complaining. If her death actually accomplishes something in the story such that not having her die would produce an inferior one, then I'd support it. Hell, having her die a heroic death might do a LOT to redeem her as a character, because right now she's loathsome.Quote:Originally Posted by RosaQuartz
And yet if her in-story fate ends up being the same as Sefu's, there would be an explosion of cries of "Refrigerator!", even if it happens the exact way as Sefu, and even through she's almost universally despised right now. -
Quote:But that's the problem. If the threat presented seems too small for the number of people required to tackle it, then that's a failure of presentation. Considering the story can be whatever the writers write it to be, there's really no excuse for presentation failures.Originally Posted by Yogi_Bare
The big picture is that, combined, this is a threat to two worlds. And trust me, I understand that 24 seems to be a big number for the threat presented but...
Zwill insists that the writers always have a reason for what they're doing, and I can't really argue that particular point. But one must then ask the question - what, exactly, is this purpose behind the Incarnate Trials? Because I fear there is a growing disconnect with what players expect their progression to resemble and what the writers feel progression should look like. -
How would an authenticator help keep the game's databases from being hacked?
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I have a bit of a quandary - the way I have my Invulnerability Brute, her resistance to everything but psi damage comes up to 89.7%. I'm aware that the Brute damage cap is 90% so the difference between the two is academic, but this is my T9 god mode power. Does it make sense to slot it for massive overkill in case I'm fighting something with strong resistance debuffs, or should I leave it as it is and not bother slotting any more resistance into it?
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Quote:Which means I used the word incorrectly, which was my fault for thinking it meant one thing when it meant another. Having brought it up, I realise that it's one of the words I inadvertently use incorrectly, like saying wary when I mean weary. As I said - English is a foreign language to me even now, so I'm still learning.Originally Posted by Devlin_Quaid
...You used peruse incorrectly.
Specifically, peruse means to go over something with great effort. You peruse a book you want to know by heart. -
Quote:Honestly, I don't get why writers keep insisting on using that word when there's a far better word for it - eradicate. Literally "to pull something out with its roots," it's the perfect descriptor of destroying something completely, such that there's no chance of it coming back. Decimate has its place in the English language, but even examined figuratively, it still means more "wound" or "damage" than destroy.Originally Posted by Hopeling
Can you find me someplace that gives that definition? Because, as we covered at length in the other thread, even its modern usage (as opposed to the archaic exactly-one-in-ten meaning) still only means to destroy a large part of something, not to destroy it completely.
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Quote:Punishing the studio? Are we in indentured servitude to them in some way? I was under the impression that we're paying for a service to occupy our spare time. If jerkasses ruin that service, then that's all that factors in. "Is it fun?"Originally Posted by Tyger42
Wow. So you basically punish Paragon Studios for one player's dick move? Nice.
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Quote:Anyone familiar with the basic history of the world should be familiar with the meaning of this word, as it's a very common Roman practice. Anyone unfamiliar with the meaning of the word can pick up a dictionary or, failing that, peruse a free online dictionary.Originally Posted by Tyger42
Which, again, is a perfectly acceptable definition of the word. The other is archaic to the point that barely anyone even knows of it anymore.
I studied English as a foreign language. I never had the luxury of "not knowing" what a word means, because if I didn't know what a word meant, I didn't use it. And if I used a word and someone told me I was using it wrong, I picked up a dictionary and looked it up.
"Language evolves" is not an excuse I've ever been willing to accept when the bulk of the times it's been used has been as an excuse for practical ignorance. -
Quote:This is precisely my problem with the whole system. "Learning to walk" is something that I can easily see us having to do at level 1. At level 50, we're already super heroes. We shouldn't have to be knocked down to basics in a way that drops us far below what we were when we were level 50. I'm not saying it's unrealistic or it wouldn't happen, I'm saying it's humiliating and it SHOULDN'T happen.Originally Posted by Peregrine_Falcon
Yeah I get that, but our characters are already level 50 before we even get to try the Incarnate path. We've already 'learned to run.'
I think it's a mistake to view our progression through the levels as just one of power. I prefer to view our progression as one of prestige. The higher level we are, the more prestigious we are as heroes or villains, and the better the narrative treats us. At level 1, everyone is worried about what we can handle, we're prone to goofing up, there are many enemies we're too weak to confront and so on. By the time we're level 50, people should be confident in our abilities and actually rely on us to defeat seemingly impossible odds, we should be expected to succeed every time, we should be expected to face down any enemy that needs to be faced... We should be treated with respect both by the in-game characters and by the meta-game story writers.
When you look at game progression as the progression of prestige, then suddenly losing prestige and becoming the cub all over again seems more like regression. -
Quote:Again, that comes down to presentation. Having us tag along for their stories would be a mistake, but actually seeing them DO something and SAY something from time to time would be a welcome addition to the game. Right now, Positron and company might as well be marble statues, sitting idle to make the city pretty. They have no character or personality because there's never anything for them to do.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I don't mind the Phalanx. I view them as what they are: fairly generic NPC characters that exist for the sole reason of making the PCs look good. They don't do much because the game IS about you. If the Phalanx were everywhere fighting crime and you just got to tag along with them now and then, would you feel like you were the hero, or would you feel like a sidekick? (that was one of the big mistakes the Distinguished Competition made)
By contrast, involving them in storylines would make us care about these guys. They don't have to be the stars, they don't have to solve all the problems, but they should at least show up. The other day, I took a data file off a Crey computer, but it was encoded. To break the code, I went to Bastion, whose "computer brain could break any encryption." He didn't say much, but that's kind of how he is, I infer - a laconic, logic-driven robot who doesn't wax philosophical. He at least did something. He at least said something. I had a reason to know he exists above and beyond passing him in the street every time I went to take the train in Talos Island.
No, our stories shouldn't be about the Freedom Phalanx. They should be about us. But there's no reason why their stories can't intersect with our stories from time to time. A good writer can do this fairly easily, and I know this for a fact. Right now, you could go through almost the entire game and not even know what a "Freedom Phalanx" is, let alone know any of its members. The only reason I knew these people existed at all back in the day is they were placed next to the zone's trainers which I went to see, and thus walked by the Freedom Phalanx members. Is it any wonder I don't care? -
Hair, hats and details with Monster and Animal heads would be great, I agree. I'm not sure if this needs to happen as additions to the Monster and Animal heads themselves or whether we could be better off adding snouts as face details for existing faces, but that should happen.
And I'm on board for more Monster feet, as well. Preferably some that aren't barefoot. I'm talking about more boots and robot feet in the form of monster feet. -
Yeah, OK, it's not QUITE a scythe, but then neither is what people are asking for. I have nothing against Maka and Soul Eater passing off as a scythe fighter, but an actual scythe has a blade that's pointing to the side and handles on the hilt. A scythe is not a slashing or stabbing weapon, it's designed to cut horizontally at ground level without you having to bend down to do so. Every time I see a scythe where the blade points down along the shaft, it bugs me to call it a scythe.
Honestly, it seems to me that what we're asking for is a very large two-handed kama. And as long as we're talking fantastic non-existent weapons, we may as well specify what it is we want in detail, because when we ask for a "scythe," we're not actually asking for a scythe. -
Quote:I'm more than convinced that people at large would give more of a crap about the Freedom Phalanx if they didn't have to shut down the game and go read The Web of Arachnos as homework assignment. Any storyline that's important to something which happens in the game needs to be delivered through the game. Expecting people to go read a bunch of comics is a recipe for failure.Originally Posted by BrandX
When I say people, I mean the majority of players Sam, not the few like you.
And, really, stories don't have to be ABOUT signature characters in order for them to be involved in these stories. That's where I disagree the most. That signature character can easily be a supporting character in a story that's still ostensibly about my character. That's actually what I feel would be a great way to demonstrate our Incarnate power - if we can team up with Statesman, Positron and Manti as equals, if we have to bail their ***** out of trouble and if we get to help them overcome personal problems.
Giving these characters flaws and problems then seeing them overcome these is what makes them feel more human and less godlike, which is a GREAT way to make people feel godlike themselves.
As well you should. You did a great job with your stories. You put substance behind the faces and characters behind the names, and that's more than anything in the game has done for these guys so far. Your story is exactly the kind of thing I want to see done with the signature characters as a way to make us care about them.Quote:Originally Posted by Dark_Respite
I took it as a compliment when several players who'd read TCOSR told me that now when they pass through Steel Canyon, Positron seems like an actual character now, not just a placeholder for a task force.
Hell, look at Wilhelmina M Deitrich of Rikti War Zone fame - no story is really "about" her, but because she has such a strong presence in the War Zone storyline and because she has such a well-explored personality, she feels like a real character. And when Sefu bites the big one, her reaction makes her personality finally transcend the two-dimensional simplicity of a utilitarian character and makes her feel like an actual three-dimensional person.
In order for people to care about the Freedom Phalanx, we need to see that there's something more to them than the utility of an important NPC and the fanfare of a famous talking head. In order for us to care about the Freedom Phalanx, we need to know who these people are.
That's a bit of a misnomer, though. The problem with Manticore (and Scirocco) isn't so much that they're in the story, but rather the way they DEFINE the story. I know the point of them is to show us that we're small-time newbies and the big players can crush us with one thumb, but that's precisely what rubs people the wrong way about the stories. And, honestly, of the two newbie arcs, Manticore is the less offensive. Yes, he's a jerk who sends armed mercenaries to shoot at the Shining Stars as a test, but beyond that, the situations is pretty much outside of his control and it's up to us - the newbies - to save the day, ultimately. Which is the right way to tell a newbie story, in my opinion.Quote:Originally Posted by Lycantropus
Funny thing is, they try and incorporate them into the storyline, like Manticore in the Shining Stars arc, and folks complain about that too... Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I guess
I discussed the notion of overpowered godlike characters in stories with the Vulpish One the other day, and we worked on coming up with ways to keep them in the stories without ruining them. My solution was and is to develop these characters as characters, but the have the narrative treat them as plot devices. In essence, we're not fighting to beat the impossible odds, because we're newbies and we can't. We're fighting to somehow involve the overpowered character and have him beat the odds, but that character is somehow prevented from doing so. Maybe he's trapped somewhere, maybe he's unaware, maybe he's hurt, but the point remains that our goal isn't to win, but rather to get the overpowered character to fight and have him win. Yes, we're still helping another hero, but the act of defying incredible odds in the process of helping is heroic in itself.
Telling a story that simultaneously puts over the player characters without them being the most powerful is a tricky prospect, but it's something that a good writer shouldn't have a problem with. This isn't rocket science. It just takes experience in writing. -
I have to agree with Arcana here - City of Heroes has spoiled me. There's a very good reason I'm still here seven years later despite how much I complain. City of Heroes has simply developed into something special. Whether this was because the developers had the vision to break the EQ/DAOC mould or whether because someone messed up and fell over backwards into a successful game, I cannot say, but the fact remains that ANY other MMO I try ultimately falls short of what City of Heroes can do. Some can do specific things better, but none can do as many things as well.
And, really, damn near every other MMO I try these days comes off like a WoW clone. Even Star Wars has that three-rectangle skill tree. Feh. -
Quote:I've personally found the trick to getting a discussion going is to phrase your thread like a question, rather than as a statement, and thus prompt people for their feedback. The truth of the matter is very few people actually enjoy being told things they don't care about and fewer still have the motivation to then imagine a response, so even when they agree, they don't see a need to post /signed for no reason.Originally Posted by Lycantropus
The irony that I have discovered is, more often than not, the less response you get, the more most folks probably agree with you because they don't have anything to argue about, and therefore don't post anything.
Posting a question, however, such as "What do YOU think this should be like?" is something I find to be much more constructive, as this gets people thinking and contributing, expanding each other's ideas and generally formulating a discussion that's not based on anger or malice. It also makes the thread a tad less egotistical because it becomes less about what you have to say and more about how people feel about it, which I find makes for a more productive discussion. -
Do you know what changed the game for me?
Capes. Samuel Tow had always been intended to have a cape - a cloak, actually, but I could never do that. as soon as I gave him one, he was finally correct to concept.
Weapon customization. Before, every weapon character I'd ever make would be exactly like every other one, and they'd all use medieval weapons for the most part. With Weapon Customization, I was suddenly able to make a whole host of different characters, and they could all use the weapons appropriate to their concept. It made it possible to have technological swordsmen, just as an idle example.
Power customization. This was the big turning point. Before that, my characters were only ever my own when they were posing for a screenshot. As soon as they acted, they were no longer what I'd intended for them to be. With power custimization, my characters were my own in posing and in action, and indeed in every way I could think of for them to BE mine. That was amazing.
The Vanguard pack. Even with weapon customization, I couldn't make all that many characters, because I hated most of the weapons I had access to. The Vanguard pack gave me access to energy weapons, and this alone has created at least five or six new characters or revamped old ones just by itself.
Wings and tails. Before we had wings, I didn't think I'd ever need them. Once I tried, I could never go back. Armoured angels, winged bunnies, reptillian insect aliens, flying robots, and now ancient automatons with dire instead of wings. Does it get any better?
Cross-faction archetypes. No longer were all my heroes forced to be Scrappers even when it didn't make any sense. No longer my villains prevented from being Scrappers. All of a sudden, there was no longer a pointless limit, and I was forced to decide who was what AT based on concept, as opposed to on whatever was available. And that's impressive.
The Stalker changes, back before and right now. When it was first introduced, the Stalker AT was garbage. These changes made it worth playing, and they're continuing to get better. My ultimate hope is that one day I will stop feeling like I'm cheating myself by playing my Stalkers, and that day feels like it's around the corner. Without these changes, none of my many Stalkers would exist.
The Praetorian Clockwork set. Have you ever noticed how we don't have any costume pieces that suggest our torsos aren't actually clothes/armour over a human body? Well, the Clockwork chest does. Clockwork robots have only a thin metal spine surrounded by metal armature that you can see through. It makes for a visual that's both a little disturbing and at the same time immensely cool. That was the first time I started thinking about my characters in three dimensions.
Titan Weapons. This was something I've wanted since as far back as I remember. Getting it was a dream come true, and it has such a variety of weapon types that I can't seem to stop coming up with concepts for it.
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As far as I'm concerned, the game doesn't need to get any more complex. It's fine as it is, even too complex for my tastes. If anything, I'd like to see tons more costumes, weapons and locations.