Revolver_Law

Is the respec that players get when finishing a patron arc taking the place of a lvl44-50 respec trial? Can we expect being able to respec out of a patron down the road due to "new tech"?

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Yeah but Ice performs above the norm in PvP...
If you'd switch to Ice/EM in Warburg it would be even more powerful.
What's better than Defense in PvP? Resist. (+Acc)
Better than Resist? Healing. (Criticals/Unresisted)
Better than Healing? Slow.
You're a muscled up controller.

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That's, er, nice. I think there's a difference between having a rebuttal and just throwing up smoke to maintain an illusion.

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You underestimate the sheer ridiculousness of "The Ice Tank" in PvP.

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From Castle's post :

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I think you're letting your ATist rhetoric blind you to the point that Castle's list strictly discusses solo PvP, which he explicitly qualifies. Furthermore, he goes on to vaguely suggest that PvP-performance hierarchy is wholly different on teams -- which is ostensibly what PvP is built around.

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In team play, most AT's are within 30% of one another. The few exceptions should be looked at. Defenders, Controllers, Corruptors and Dominators are NOT at the bottom of this list, by any stretch.

"Release the numbers" -- I can't. It really is proprietary info, and the generalities I'm providing are about as far as I can go.

"OMG! He's nerfing EM!" -- Nope, at least not for I7.

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Could it be that tankers are the exception that are going to be "looked at" in terms of PvP?

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It makes sense.

Tanks are AWFUL in pvp, though I really thought dominators were/are worse.

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I played my Ice/Stone tanker in Warburg, and I have never before or since felt as overpowered playing this game as I did in that circumstance.

So, er, "awful?"

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Ice Tanks are the exception to the rule. Look out for nerf threads concerning them fairly soon.

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Honestly, Castle, with Archery it seems to me that the two biggest problem with the set are too much lethal damage and a lackluster secondary effect. Buffing the acc bonus some and adding in different damage types - like some toxic damage for poison arrowheads or something - would go a long way toward rehabilitating archers.

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Oh oh... someone's probably already suggested this but:

Replace one of the powers in the set with a utlity power. Using this power would apply a random secondary affect to the arrows.

Example, you use this power and set all your arrows on fire. You use it and add acid or posion for toxic. Etc etc. This could help with the lethal end of it.

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Very good idea.

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Are we allowed to complain yet?

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Nope not yet. As they say, "We have to wait for numbers".

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Kinda like we weren't allowed to assume that villain PPPs I7 would all be Patron-themed sets of 4 powers, with no alternate elemental sets, because it hadn't been spelled out in bright neon?

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Exactly.

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Are we allowed to complain yet?

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Nope not yet. As they say, "We have to wait for numbers".

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No was not thinking of that at all. Who would be the best person to ask?


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_Castle_ or Positron

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In the lobby of the watchtower in Grandville is a statue of each of Lord Recluse's lieutenants. At the base of this statue is a plaque that, when you click on, brings up a text box with tabs. The tabs are for the Archetype, and it goes into detail about the powers (including the hard numbers) that that Patron will give that Archetype. (Thus you can easily look at all the patron powers for your AT, and even those not for your AT).

You are given a mission to visit each of these plaques before you choose your patron.

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Positron, how do pools that have a drawn weapon (like the Mace) work with powersets that already have to draw a weapon (Ninja Blade, AR, etc)?

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"Right" is a subjective term. What might be "right" to you, may not be "right" in my opinion. When it comes to a online gaming, "right" is irrelevant, only what is and is not allowable.

If I go to Warburg, and all I want to do is launch the missile, I have no desire to engage any other players, is it "right" for someone to attack me anyways?

If I go to Bloody Bay, and all I want to do is collect the meteor shards, is it "right" for another player to attack me?

If I go to Siren's Call, and only want to engage mobs in Hot Spot battles, and never attack another player, is it "right" to be attacked by one?

The answer to all of the above questions is contained in Cuppa's earlier post.

Thing is, "right" is a matter of personal interpretation. I don't think it's "right", for example, for people to be named things like "Chicken McNuggets", "FattyBlasterBoi" or "IRHeeler" in game. I don't think it's "right" for 8 different people to spam broadcast that they are all LFT when they could just join up and form a team themselves. There are many things which we each might individually consider to not be "right"... but none of that matters.

What DOES matter is if it is "allowed". The devs have stated that attacking someone, who is in a PVP zone, even if they don't WANT to be attacked, is allowed. Even if they are claiming exemption because they are RPing. Even if they are fighting a group of mobs. The devs have also stated that getting mobs to do your dirty work for you, be it bringing the mobs to you, or even bringing you to the mobs (like TPing you, or pulling you), is allowed.

If you do not want other players to have the opportunity to be able to cause you to die, regardless of HOW they cause it, then your only option is to stay out of the PVP zones, it's really that simple.

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/Co-sign

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I guess I have 2 questions regarding the "hard wiring" of making patron powers permanent.

1.) how will this effect when hero to villian and vice versa happens?

Will the powers still be avalibale to a villian turned hero?

2.) How will epic power pools be handled for heroes who become villians? will they also get to chose patron powers? will they lose thier epic pools?

Seems kinda confusing when one set is permanet and the other isn't.

Thanks

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Good questions, and the lack of easy answers has likely contributed to a Hero/Villain-switch TF not being implemented anytime soon.

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Quick and easy answer?

There might not be side-switching after level 40.

Here's where I came up with that. The zones that have entrances to Pocket-D. The DJ is not good or evil but freelance. I could speculate that he'd be the perfect contact for a fallen/redeemed story arc. There's three entrances to Pocket-D. Further speculation, those zone levels are the levels that side-switching will be available at.

Did I mention this is speculation?

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I doubt it would go through Pocket D, just seems cheesy and lame. If this whole switching sides thing is supposed to be epic and a major event in your character's life, Pocket D just doesn't "fit".

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I guess I have 2 questions regarding the "hard wiring" of making patron powers permanent.

1.) how will this effect when hero to villian and vice versa happens?

Will the powers still be avalibale to a villian turned hero?

2.) How will epic power pools be handled for heroes who become villians? will they also get to chose patron powers? will they lose thier epic pools?

Seems kinda confusing when one set is permanet and the other isn't.

Thanks

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Good questions, and the lack of easy answers has likely contributed to a Hero/Villain-switch TF not being implemented anytime soon.

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I have a feeling they'd just like to all this stuff out first, then decide how the whole fallen/redemption hero/villain stuff is going to work.

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Are Patron Powers level specific?

Not to be an annoyance but nowhere on the Patron Arcs little info page does it list any requirements.

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In most of the info for I7, it says they're unlocked between lvl40-50.

I personally don't like how they've chosen to release the information for this specific feature, should've all been a one shot deal. Hopefully the next update will give us all of the remaining details instead of having us wait another week.

From a Boomtown interview:
http://rpg.boomtown.net/en_uk/articl...w.php?id=10730


BT: Can you give us details on the nature of the Patron power sets?

MM: Each powerset is flavored towards the Patron Villain it represents. So if you choose Black Scorpion as your Patron, you will get a Nullifer Mace, the signature weapon of a Bane Spider Commando. With this mace comes different powers (each suited towards your Archetype).

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You just have to consider your choice before you make it. Shocking concept, I know. Kudos to the design guys who came up with this, I'm dying to get my grubby little paws on it!

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Cool. You stick with the permanent choice when either they change either your PPPs or some other power that synergized well with your choice of PPP (thus driving that choice). I'll stick with keeping my choices reversible - just like heroes can, and just like both heroes and villains can for every other pool choice in the game.

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Like I said. Consider your choices carefully.

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Choices can be considered as carefully as possible, none of us know what's going to be changed down the line.

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Castle, you know now that you've posted in two threads with this title, it's going to appear in every AT forum on the board right?

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Actually, you're right. I think it's also against board policy to 'call out' a dev in your post title. I think that means I've been bad by actually responding. I'll have to stop doing that.

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Is it possible to make a post once a week in the Blaster to section to just give us an update on things?

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And it's not because they want it that way - it because they didn't take it into account when designing the content.

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We don't know this. We need to chillax.

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If it was taken into account and they went along with it anyway, than I've obviously overestimated their intelligence.

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Dude, give it a rest.

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Hey, they made a dumb a move that's going to kick players in the [censored] somewhere down the road. I'm more than entitled to be concerned over that and defend my opinion.

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Revolver, you've made your statement, the debate goes on, and you're not a lone voice crying in the wind. Pace yourself and avoid getting personal even though there have been some personal attacks against you. The more you rebut every little comment, the more it looks like you're throwing a hissy fit.

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I really don't care what others may think of me - especially on an internet forum. When someone is fast to call an opinion that doesn't favor the Devs whining, that pretty much tells me all I have know.

But point well taken, I know good advice when it crosses my path.

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Clint, just because you've learned to embrace and bathe in the hyperbole and doomwhining doesn't mean everyone has to condone it, too.

Yes, Revolver freaking the hell out as if this were written in stone and will never change without knowing anything other than 1 Positron post is going overboard. When it was first announced that capes weren't going to be available until level 20, we had people posting the exact same thing. "OMG, BAD GAME DESIGN!" and "THE DEVS DROPPED THE BALL!"

Yet... capes hit at level 20 and no one cares about it anymore.

I'm sorry I'm not freaking out like a 3 year old about this, Clint. Maybe because it's everything I've been asking for for months: epic power pools that actually MEAN something. I'd gladly give up the right to change epic power pools if it meant that they added a storyline reason why my elec blaster suddenly discovers he can freeze things in ice at level 41. Or that my mind controller can suddenly throw boulders.

But no, I'm not even just protesting Revolver's right to be a giant loudmouth. I read this thread and was disgusted, Clint. It's an entire thread of people acting like jagoffs, whether it's about lack of information about patron powers, the inability to change them, or even typos. Game balance, nerfs, devs, fanboys, trolls or not, I take exception to that as a forum reader. If you want to condone that because you suddenly find yourself at odds with the devs, that's your choice to make.

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Thank you for taking what I said out of context. You know as well as I do that in an internet forum these two quotes are completely different:

"The Devs drop the ball."

"THE DEVS DROPPED THE BALL"

as well as...

"This is bad game design."

"OMG BAD GAME DESIGN"

Maybe I'll take up your quoting methods:

OMG YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THE DEVS NOOB!


Taser let's get to what all this is really about - anytime anyone says anything that goes against your Devworshipping lifestyle you have a problem with it, so you trot into the thread and bash them for it. Very mature.

You have the right to your opinions just as everybody else - the difference is you're the only one who consistantly, without fail takes it as their personal quest to attack anyone who happens to not like what the Devs have done.

You even go as far to call it whining to belittle any opinion that isn't along the lines of "The Dev done good".

Give it a rest. We've all seen it enough. You like the Devs, we got the point.

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Then how about waiting until it hits Test and see how many powers or how much flexibility you have with doing a respec? Your answers will come when I7 hits Test and the devs clear things up better. Instead of jumping to conclusions, see what happens before claiming they completely screwed something up you dont have a clue what it is yet.

I reserve judgement on things like this until I actually see and try it. Then I make a clear post for or against it rather then just bluntly saying they dropped the ball.

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It doesn't matter how many powers are in the set, the point remains you can't choose a different one down they line should you feel the need to.

And it's not because they want it that way - it because they didn't take it into account when designing the content.

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Realistically, it won't matter "game-wise".

Let's look at what Ancillary Power Sets "basically" do in CoH.
[*]Tanks: Mezz or missing self-buffs plus ranged attacks.[*]Scrappers: Basically, ditto.[*]Blasters: Armor, self-buffs and possible attacks.[*]Defenders: Armor, self-buffs and a possible mezz.[*]Controllers: Armor, attack, self buffs.

I think we are likely to see that Patron Power Sets follow the same steps.
[*]Corruptors: Get very similar power sets thematically to Defenders and blasters.[*]Master Minds: Ditto, I think.[*]Dominator: Armor, self-buffs, self-heals.[*]Brutes: Missing self-buffs, ranged attacks and a possible mezz.[*]Stalkers: Missing self-buffs, ranged attack and a possible mezz.

For a "random" example, my E/E brute is missing a self heal and has no ranged attacks. Most likely *all* of the patron powers have a ranged attack(s), mezz or debuff single target and a self-buff of some sort. But GW's will be a ghostly power, Sicciro (SP?) will be lightning bases and so on.

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It's really not that simple.

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You know what I was thinking.. what if the powers didn't matter because most (like 98%) of them gonna be the same? Maybe that's why it wouldn't matter if you picked X Patron or not?

Like for example, all of the Patrons grant the same powers except for their one single signature Patron attack they wanted to give you?

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I was thinking the same thing. Its possible that each of the Patron pools will offer the same exact powers. The only difference would be their appearance. So Mako's shield, ranged cone, etc. would be corallax themed, while Sirocco's would be Mu red lighting themed.

If that is the case, then only the Patron specific content will truely matter.

I am willing to wait for more details before passing judgement.

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I don't think they'd make all the powers the same, just with different animations, that's greatly limiting the choices players have.

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Why not?

It certainly would solve the "man-I-hate-this-Patron's-powers,-I-wanna-try-the-other-Patron-now" problem.

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Except for the fact that Posi already said we can't respec out of a patron due to the way they're coded into the content - not because they didn't want player to be able to do so.

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You know what I was thinking.. what if the powers didn't matter because most (like 98%) of them gonna be the same? Maybe that's why it wouldn't matter if you picked X Patron or not?

Like for example, all of the Patrons grant the same powers except for their one single signature Patron attack they wanted to give you?

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I was thinking the same thing. Its possible that each of the Patron pools will offer the same exact powers. The only difference would be their appearance. So Mako's shield, ranged cone, etc. would be corallax themed, while Sirocco's would be Mu red lighting themed.

If that is the case, then only the Patron specific content will truely matter.

I am willing to wait for more details before passing judgement.

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I don't think they'd make all the powers the same, just with different animations, that's greatly limiting the choices players have.

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Sorry Taser, but being one of the biggest Dev fanboys around makes your opinion mean very little to me. Grats.

I guess it's forbidden that someone actually disagree with something that's obviously based on bad design, bad foresight, and bad decision making.

I've got some nerve.

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Because you have to hate the game before you're allowed to have an opinion about it. Taser! Your complaint quota is not high enough to post in this thread! BAD TASER!

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There's a lot of things I like about the game and a lot of things I don't like. I've patted the Devs on their backs when they do a good job of something, but I'll also let them know when they've screwed up.

Unlike others who are on either extreme.

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And it's not because they want it that way - it because they didn't take it into account when designing the content.

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We don't know this. We need to chillax.

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If it was taken into account and they went along with it anyway, than I've obviously overestimated their intelligence.

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Dude, give it a rest.

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Hey, they made a dumb a move that's going to kick players in the [censored] somewhere down the road. I'm more than entitled to be concerned over that and defend my opinion.

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And it's not because they want it that way - it because they didn't take it into account when designing the content.

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We don't know this. We need to chillax.

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If it was taken into account and they went along with it anyway, than I've obviously overestimated their intelligence.

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and they dropped the ball with Kheldians

and they dropped the ball with the Purple Patch

and they dropped the ball with Epic Pools

and they dropped the ball with ED

and they dropped the ball with Patron Pools

Kettle ; Meet Pot

As for my personal opinion, the TEST server exists to check things out. We can try out each power individually, wait for others on the baords to post how each power works in practice and I'll make my decision.

I wont come and complain on the boards for a mistake I made demanding free months or demanding the devs shower me with respecs. I accept mistakes I make. We all do it. The test server is there to do our best to ensure we dont make a mistake.

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We all know of the Test Server, I've actually spent 4+ hours there today playing around with builds. Problem with the Test Server is that it only works for things that they plan to implement.

So what happens when sometime down the line they decide Mako's sets are too strong or they want to change how one of the powers work - whoever has Mako can't decide to pick another patron. The test server doesn't solve that.

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Well if they decide to CHANGE something that players didn't originally sign onto doing, then they're obviously gonna give you another choice of choosing your Patron.

That idea is obviously unfair, the devs would obviously do something about it.

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From Posi's post:

There is currently no way for us to let you re-spec out of them and into a different one. This is because it is tied to specific content for that Patron.

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He's talking about us not recieving any respecs out of our Patrons in I7.

You're talking about "what if..." and about the devs changing things.

Ofcourse, if they change something that the players didn't originally approve of, they're gonna give you a chance to rethink your choice once again. How? I don't know? but it's clear to see that there's something wrong with the devs not letting us change our Patrons when THEY changed it AFTER we picked them.

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It's not "what if this power or that power changes", it's more "when this power or that power changes".

There will be power changes to these pools after it goes live, that's the nature of an MMO. The only suggestion I can make is they not change a single thing about them after they go live until they figure out a feasible way for players to respec out of a specific patron.

And due to this not being they player's fault, but a result of Dev carelessness, there should be some type of perk associated for villain ATs.

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Then how about waiting until it hits Test and see how many powers or how much flexibility you have with doing a respec? Your answers will come when I7 hits Test and the devs clear things up better. Instead of jumping to conclusions, see what happens before claiming they completely screwed something up you dont have a clue what it is yet.

I reserve judgement on things like this until I actually see and try it. Then I make a clear post for or against it rather then just bluntly saying they dropped the ball.

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It doesn't matter how many powers are in the set, the point remains you can't choose a different one down they line should you feel the need to.

And it's not because they want it that way - it because they didn't take it into account when designing the content.

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and they dropped the ball with Kheldians

and they dropped the ball with the Purple Patch

and they dropped the ball with Epic Pools

and they dropped the ball with ED

and they dropped the ball with Patron Pools

Kettle ; Meet Pot

As for my personal opinion, the TEST server exists to check things out. We can try out each power individually, wait for others on the baords to post how each power works in practice and I'll make my decision.

I wont come and complain on the boards for a mistake I made demanding free months or demanding the devs shower me with respecs. I accept mistakes I make. We all do it. The test server is there to do our best to ensure we dont make a mistake.

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We all know of the Test Server, I've actually spent 4+ hours there today playing around with builds. Problem with the Test Server is that it only works for things that they plan to implement.

So what happens when sometime down the line they decide Mako's sets are too strong or they want to change how one of the powers work - whoever has Mako can't decide to pick another patron. The test server doesn't solve that.

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Well if they decide to CHANGE something that players didn't originally sign onto doing, then they're obviously gonna give you another choice of choosing your Patron.

That idea is obviously unfair, the devs would obviously do something about it.

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From Posi's post:

There is currently no way for us to let you re-spec out of them and into a different one. This is because it is tied to specific content for that Patron.