ProcessedMeatMan

These powers are only as effective (or not) as you want them to be. You'd actually be suprised at the number of Gravity controllers that actually have, use and like Dimension Shift. It's probably more than you think.

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By comparison to any other controller AT, Grav very simply, sucks.

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If this wasn't a video game, I'd probably be offended. Gravity controllers are told that they suck so often, that it's becoming some warped self-fulfilling prophecy.

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2. Fix the stringing out of mobs that come through the other side. If they cant be placed as a bunched group the power is worthless to a team.

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I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that this isn't possible based on current game mechanics and the way in which this power currently works, though I could be wrong. Regardless, upping the disorient duration of the power will cause the baddies to unclump anyway. Disorient has a tendency to do that.


Wormhoel has always been a glorified TP Foe. I remember many, many months ago I had to defend it against my fellow Gravity controllers that strongly proclaimed that the power was absolutely worthless. I find it funny that it's now being defended almost as strongly. My, how times have changed.

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Sure, my point is why get rid of a great power for a different (possibly) great power when there are at least 2 other clearly inferior powers to change.

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Clearly inferior? To who? As far as "pure" AoE control goes, Dimension Shift is far superior to both versions of Wormhole. All this statement does is support the notion that no matter which power the Devs decide to manipulate, there will always be a group that's decidely not in favor of it.

and LOTS of people will use and like the new wormhole. Me being one of them.

Where do you get this "nuke" impression? And where do you get the impression they're married to it? Sure they advertised it as "another form of AoE control," but they weren't wrong. It IS AoE and it IS control. The debate remains exactly how much it does or doesn't deserve that title.... and whether the Devs will hear our pleas and tweak it up a notch.

The problem is, the Gravity set has been around for awhile now. Each and every power in the set is liked to some degree by some users of the powersrt. No matter which power is tweaked (and one of them will HAVE to be tweaked), some people are going to complain. With the possible exception of Crush, seeing how most controllers in general don't like their single target immobilize.

Propel - the cone/knockback idea. It's been proposed a thousand times in as many variations. The damage will be decreased significantly, or completely, if it's made an AoE, making our already dismal damage capacity even more so.

Dimension Shift - Believe it or not, quite a few people like this power as is. Changing it or scrapping it will no doubt bring protest just the the new Wormhole has. DS, whether you liek it or not, IS currently Gravity's secondary AoE crowd control power. It's hated by many because it doesn't allow for damage. That, imo, is where our "hole" lies. The other sets have a secondary AoE that allows damage to be inflicted, we do not.

Now that the Gravity changes have their own Official thread, I'll take this opportunity to post a link to my quick and dirty lil test of the new wormhole with proposed suggestions.

Thanks Cuppajo!

Quick 'n Dirty Analysis of Wormhole V2.0

Single target holds work to diable DE eminators and FF generators (not 100% on the gens). You don't need to wormhole them away.

Are you talking about Propel?

Sorry, but that's not enough to warrant a nerf that disallows us from ever effectively tanking purple cons.

I'm not fooled. Though I do agree with your main points.

By and large, I've already found some uses for an AoE wormhole. I find it much more appealing and much more useful than the single target version. That's not to say it couldn't be tweaked and made better, but I'm diggin' it.

I just hope this doesn't inhibit our ability to manage purples. You know, like the 3 other Tanker powersets can.

I just did some testing of my own with lvl 51 Nemesis.

Yeah, the knockback is still there. IMO, this should be made optional i.e. no knockback unless slotted with knockback enhancements.. similar to Tanker KB powers. That would fix that issue nice and quick.

The range it has is still sick. If anything, wormhole can be cycled on some troublesome groups and pushed far enough away to give the team a few seconds break. Combine that with Crushing Field, and you've got a nice little distance hold!

The disorient is weak. I mean really weak. Unslotted it last 4 seconds.. at best. The base disorient of this power really should be increased to compensate for the longer recharge.

Speaking of recharge. I didn't find it "too" bad, but then again I have perma-AM and perma-Hasten. Without any recharge help, the recharge it has doesn't match the duration of the disorient. It really should be bumped up a notch.

Also, the disorient doesn't seem to work on Robot type baddies at all. Jaegers and Malta Titans seemed immune to it's effects. So, heads up on that.

Overall, I'm VERY happy with this change! It could use a few tweaks to make it better, but I'm pleased nonetheless.

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Wormhole: They posted that now Gravity has two control powers: Like heck we do. The duration of Wormhole's disorient is still 5-6 seconds base on even con mobs. Even with 3 Duration SOs, that comes to a 10-12 second disorient. Ick. With the added recharge, its still not a viable control effect.

The aoe effect has the same radius as Gravity Distortion Field, however the location you teleport the mobs to stretches the mobs out into a line with about 3-5 feet between them all. Forget trying to to port mobs into a nice cluster for aoes: it just won't happen.

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Thanks for testing this. If enough of us can do some testing of our own and post results here, maybe we can rally enough support to AT LEAST raise it's base disorient duration, thus making enhancing it more worthwhile.
The "stretching" that you noticed is probably something that isn't easily fixed, but I remain opimistic that an AoE ANYTHING will be manipulated into something useful.

YAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!

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there should be an option to tone down hamis, SOs, DOs, or even no ench mode. but it should be an optional rule, like the no travel powers setting. It shouldn't be a completely segregated deal.

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This makes way more sense than implementing a separate "HO Ladder." The ladder idea makes little sense to me. If I have 2 HOs.. am I forced into a ladder ranking system with someone that's fully stocked? Somehow, I don't see the fairness in that either.

Read his points. He DID answer your question.

Maybe I'm oblivious.. or just plain missed something... but Hamidon has only been beaten 3 times on the Infinity server. Somehow, I just don't think our server is going to experience this problem.

In response to the white text:

Thanks. I personallly love it when people like this tell me not only what I'm supposed to have fun doing, but also how I'm supposed to play. Boy, I sure am glad people like this are around to set me straight! Any more suggestions? I mean, I really want to play the game YOUR way and not mine, cuz that's what's REALLy fun.

Seriously, why do people write responses like this? Do people really think like this? Or are they really that dense and ridiculous?

On another note.. I was wondering why they changed this anyway. To stop herding? To stop PLing? Why did they add werewolves to the Nemeses section of the Information Kiosk? No other Praetorian villain group has a spot there. Was it to keep track of how much herding was actually going on? Why make a public counter of something that you don't want us to kill a lot of in the first place?

Thanks for what? Runing what many many people enjoyed doing? Yes, let's give thanks for pissing off lots f people.

On a side note, WWs have been outdated for awhile. There are other, better missions to farm. Unless timers are tossed on every lvl 40ish+ train and portal mission, herding/PLing will never stop.

It has been my experience when teamed with OTHER tankers that rely only on punchvoke to maintain aggro... that it is no easy task. Secondary doesn't matter. At lower levels, unless you're tossing around taunt and grabbing aggro the old fashioned way, you're going to have aggro management issues from time to time. SS or no SS. rage or no rage.

Yes it does! Thanks Vixen!

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This punchvoek thing makes no sense to me. Enemy aggro has always been based on amount of damage dealt. How is this anything new? A blaster tossing out a heavy AoE or a scrapper landing a critical will just steal the aggro from us... just like it used to.

Before you flame me for being "ignorant" on the subject of punchvoke.. keep in mind that the tank I play readily is Invul/Fire... Invincibility and my harsh AoEs have worked for me before punchvoke and I haven't noticed any real change since.

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Ah, let me cover how punch-voke works in a nutshell. As you know more damage=more aggro, this is why we used to have to use Taunt and/or Provoke like mad in the old days. We did tolerable damage, but not enough in many situations. What punch-voke does is it makes mobs in the "punch-voke envelope" get more aggro at you, the more damage you cause to any mobs in this area (I believe it's roughly equal to your melee area or slightly larger, although I know LBE has some of this too, since I can pull a half dead Boss off my BS/Regen Scrapper friend with one LBE shot, so it may also be a small area or just a single target for Tanker ranged attacks, which are few anyway) the more aggro you get against them all! It does not kick in till 5th level and then it scales up as you level. It still is more effective, the more damage you cause, just like normal aggro, but it affects all mobs in this area. It's quite nice in the 40s-50. I can hold a ton of mobs on me, by attacking and I also have Taunt to cement them to me.

Tomorrow, I shall be testing some Rage aggro theories, and shall report my findings. Let's see how this shall work out.

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IIf you don't mind me asking... I thought of a couple questions about this.

Is the "hate" that punchvoke induces cumulative? I mean, does the aggro level grow the more you attack and the more damage you cause?
Let's just say I'm playing a non-"aggro-aura" Tank (no Invincibiltiy, no Icicles, no Mudpots, etc) with no Taunt/Provoke and I'm only trying to keep aggro by punching things. If someone else from the team attacks with a much higher damage attack than my 50 DMG energy punch... will I lose aggro? Or does the damage I've done add up to increase my punchvoke power over time (for a limited duration i'm sure)?

Also, does this punchvoking ability diminish as you fight higher level foes? Sorta how accuracy and damage scale off? If so, that would explain the problem some aggro tests in here have caused when trying to fight +4-5s.


I only bring these up because they may (or may not) have more of an effect on aggro retention than the Rage drop. It might not be Rage, it might be the way punchvoke is designed.

This punchvoek thing makes no sense to me. Enemy aggro has always been based on amount of damage dealt. How is this anything new? A blaster tossing out a heavy AoE or a scrapper landing a critical will just steal the aggro from us... just like it used to.

Before you flame me for being "ignorant" on the subject of punchvoke.. keep in mind that the tank I play readily is Invul/Fire... Invincibility and my harsh AoEs have worked for me before punchvoke and I haven't noticed any real change since.

You are all obviously mistaken. The Coralax was an orange furry hermit that lived in a tree trunk.

Bring forth the bitter, old, environmental activist tree trolls!! Dr. Suess demands it.

I must say... you've inspired me. I'm going to utilize some of these ideas for my Spines/DA scrapper. Fits my concept too! Thanks for the brainstorm!