ProcessedMeatMan

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't utterly cream the opposition with your ice/em then you don't know how to use it right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ice has it's weaknesses. Don't call me a n00b if no one on your server has figured them out yet.
If you're referring to one on one matches, remember: "PvP isn't balanced for 1v1."
Again, would nerfing one set or the other be fair to those that don't have both? Something tells me Ice/Ice Tanks don't exactly make you cringe in fear.

[ QUOTE ]
we are talking ICE/EM one of the most deadly combos in the arena. The only true place to get rung PVP.

Zone PvP who cares what anyone has... You are bound to face either min/maxers with FotM gank builds or nublets.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's more to PvP than SHW Arena matches. You can't isolate one aspect and say XXX is overpowered and broken. Doesn't work that way.

I've been hearing this more and more. Yes, Ice tanks are tough to bring down, but they get downright creamed when facing smart opposition.

What exactly is it that makes Ice "broken?" I have my own theories on why some feel this way, but most of those always seem to use the "Energy Melee" factor, which, last time I checked, is not part of the Ice Primary.

So, is "Ice" broken or is EM broken? Is it the combo? What exactly is it it about the combo that makes it broken?
Would nerfing one set or the other be fair to those that don't have both?
I'm not being clueless here. I have my opinions on the subject. Just trying to figure out why others feel that way.
For the record, no I don't feel it's broken and yes, I do have one.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...when the Arena and PvP first came out that Tanks were king of the mountain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tanks, not so much. Trollers everyone feared.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, tanks were pretty well feared. Not all of them, just the /EM and /Super-Strength ones. Just like now.

Heh.

~Gabriel

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny thing is, Ice was the least favored Tank primary for PvP until Issue 5 "The Patch of Doom."
9 out of 10 tanks were Invul/* prior to that. Hell, even after Issue 5, Ice was still highly undervalued in PvP, until people wised up and saw the three or four of us that actually PvPed were kicking everyone's [censored]..
My, how times have changed... and the only real differences (buffs) to Ice have been the addition of -dmg to CE, working slow resistance (was bugged for a looong time) and enhanceable end reduction in EA. Oh, and better Hibernate animation.

[ QUOTE ]
We're a high-hp AT. THAT is our counter to unresistable damage.

IMO, only time any of those are a problem are when shields are dropped...and when your resistance is down to 0 anyway, the unresistable portion is no longer a concern of yours anyways.

Even my gimped out, i3, pre-ed, pre-burn nerd fire tank can run around SC and escape stalkers. AS is still like 1/2=2/3 hp, heal flames, hop, hop, hop away!.

Second to toggle drops, our lowered mez resistance is a real problem in pvp. Or, more accurately, THIS is the problem:

Our mez shields seem to be balanced around the idea that a single controller, when well built, should be able to reliably overstack them given enough time, around lvl 30+ or so. However, once you hit hammis, and everyone is packing a few acc/mez in every hold, you get reliably overstacked that much faster...and then it's 3x damage, debuffs, and being vulnerable to everyone elses attacks time.

I've often said this about detoggling...I think they should just make the Mez shields impossible to detoggle. Even when mezzed, I either want the toggle up, OR build in an option like hibernate, where, as soon as the power ends you are able to choose one power/effect that will take place before anything else can affect you again.

IE, if I'm held, and not knowing when that hold will end, I'd like to be able to re-set my mez shield to go back up the second I'm un-held again. Not knowing is just making you sit there staring at that little red word, hoping to get your shield up before your one hold ends and someone elses mez attack gets you while your pants are down.

IMO, hammis and how they've been altered have simply brought chain-mezzing back into the game again. No other AT has as much to gain as controllers do from hammi-ing out, and certainly not any melee toon out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks you for describing why Controllers no longer need Super-Containment in PvP. 2x the damage? Maybe. 3x? No [censored] way.

Controllers can hold another player easily enough with the reductions in mezz protection, they don't need to debuff them and be able to 4-shot them too.

The very fact that Controllers DO get this ridiculous PvP buff is proof enough that PvP is not being balanced for teams (as the Devs would like us to believe). If that mantra were true, then Controllers wouldn't need it at all.

Come on... use some sense here. Energy is popular because it's better, well-rounded and much more suited to PvP than the other sets. Everyone knows this. Everyone knows why this is. Don't be ridiculous and suggest it's a popularity contest.

EDIT: Besides, that's a non-quantifiable variable and honestly not all that applicable to this analysis. Your "variable" would have to be part of a census, which are impossible to conduct (and retain any sense of validity) in an MMO.

Well, if everyone flocks to EM, then it must be because it outperforms the other sets. Perception fails in the face of reality.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you cant deliver on a promised service posted in your public forums, a promis to your custoimer, you will get berated, you have absolty no justification for FAILING to do what you said to do.

FACT: Jack said they deplorable patch notes would end
FACT: he had months
FACT: he FAILED
OPINION: HE SHOULD BE FIRED FOR INCOMPETENCE

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the "fact" that the *live* notes are deplorable is highly subjective. Most of the missed notes on patches have been to test, which I find as acceptable as that's part of the test process.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, yo.

Ugh... No kidding. I'm waiting for the "Castle says Integration is getting nerfed!!!" thread to show up in the Scrapper forum.

He meant toggle drops guys! Read the paragraph in context!!!

I'm fairly certain he was referring to Blaster toggle dropping.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) 5% in PvP? So other players count as minions for purposes of determining criticals?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah really. Didn't you just say in the Brute thread about fury that players counted as AVs for fury building purposes? But they only count as minions for critical chance? That doesn't seem right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Works the same for Controllers/Dominators as well. Imagine if all ATs had Elite... or even Boss level mezz protection before buffs. This standard can't, nor should it, be universal.

Ok, who screwed up the thread formatting? *chokes someone*

What are you offering in return?

Wow, thanks!

As a color-blind COHer, I often worry that I've mismatched my costume options. This will help a lot!

Wait... 17 is Red? 27 is Orange?! They look exactly the same to me LOL

How is this worse for Blasters? It affects all heroes. It actually affects Controllers and Defenders more.

[ QUOTE ]
I would also like to say common sense won out as the way to go with expectations on the PPP mechanics. This is exactly how I expected it to work. One pool per AT per Patron, with four powers in the pool, selectable as per any other 4-power pool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto.

Are we allowed to complain yet?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anytime someone makes any sort of comment that contains hints of emotion or strong opinion about the GAME, there's always some ignorant pissant that thinks it's born of personal life trauma.

[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome to the real world my friend.
And I don't mean the Real World MTV.

[/ QUOTE ]

But what we do/say/discuss here isn't the "real" world, it's a message board about a video game... not Dr. Phil.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but your outlook really bugs me as immensely selfish. "I get what you want, so tough for you." Nor do I think my own perspective is just the same selfishness from the other side. Your preference actively removes choice from my character process, while my preference removes a story-based restriction from yours. It may be a canon-based restriction you feel is appropriate, but I can't see your "loss" if you didn't get this as equivalent to my own. After all, you could always imagine this was the backstory for your power choices. I, on the other hand, am disallowed from imagining anything else.

[/ QUOTE ]

So basically you are looking for a feeling of freedom and choice to replace the lack of such you feel in your day to day life? Maybe if you weren't feeling so powerless and confined in real life then such in-game consequences wouldn't weigh so heavily on you? Well, that's my take on things anyway. I'm not saying it's this way with everyone here who doesn't like the situation, but I get a feeling it does apply to at least a few of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahahahahah.

*inhale*

Hahaha.

Oh. My. God.

Dude, I'm sorry, but your idiocy is beyond compare. Please, do tell me about my sad, sad life and how I have no choices in it. Please! Explain my terrible life to me.

Give me an excuse to freaking OWN you.

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding... that response was really uncalled for.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that we're on a VIDEO GAME forum... which has but one, and only one, sole purpose: Discussing the damn game!!
Anytime someone makes any sort of comment that contains hints of emotion or strong opinion about the GAME, there's always some ignorant pissant that thinks it's born of personal life trauma.

Please.

Our purpose on this forum is to talk about the friggin' game. Are we supposed to type bland and boring tripe? What would the point be?

Screw it. Here you go: 0011101101011101010101100101011

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why do people think throwing analogies at a discussion is a valid argument tactic?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because it is?

[/ QUOTE ]

When an argument or debate has fizzled into people belching out analogies... especially bad ones that make little sense... it's a sign that there is nothing of merit left to discuss.

[ QUOTE ]
Heh. I'll assume that wasn't really directed at me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Opps... haha, no not you.

Why do people think throwing analogies at a discussion is a valid argument tactic?

Ugh.

Fine, I'll join in on this garbage too.

If someone tells me a week in advance that they're going to throw a hot, steamy bag of dog [censored] in my face, I don't have to actually wait until they do it to know that I'm not going to like it.

Therefore, debating the Pros/Cons of this system before it hits Test is perfectly valid.

There. There's another retarded analogy for this thread stream.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its a lazy decision from the devs. Really lazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given that it's obviously taken special effort to make it like this (they could have just done exactly what they did with CoH and made a set of ancillary power pools) I don't think laziness is the problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm gonna hop into the not-so-wayback-machine and take a look at all the "CoV Power Sets are just like the CoH ones. The Devs are Lazy." posts and threads.

My conlustion: We'd be having a near identical whine-fest from the usuall suspects.

Yue guys really need to get a new schitck.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm wondering how you could even possible know that. Do you keep a tally of who complains about what? Is that in Excel format or what?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I see so many post saying "Why not just make it like the heroes EPP's."

So what your saying is,you want the villians to be IDENTICAL to heroes.I say no to that,that's exactly why they are villians,and not heroes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense. Of course, heroes and villains are different, but in other ways they are the same. In the comics superpowers are delineated by whether you're evil or good. There are people with Super Strenght on both side, Flight on both sides, etc.

This is not a place where it's necessary or desirable to have a difference between heroes and villains.

[/ QUOTE ]

All i'm saying is that I like the PP idea.I know the trolls and fanboys will yell at me for saying that but I really couldn't care less what they think or anyone else for that matter.If you wanna try the PP,use the Test Server.If you don't want to try them,choose other powers or just don't play,Simple as that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm neither a Troll nor a Fanboy, but I'll call you an idiot.

Have you even read the posts here? You CAN'T TEST THEM OUT ON THE TEST SERVER!!
The only way to do this is level to 50 WITHOUT a Patrol pool, then copying to test and going through each arc.

Hell, we don't even know if we lose out of Patron pools at all if we don't pick one at 41.

[ QUOTE ]
Sure, but we're already tied to other things in the game, such as our primary, secondary, origin and so forth. I think a lot of the upset here is because a primary and secondary together have plenty of powers in, so if they nerf A you can respec into B or C, whereas a 'pool' has traditionally contained four.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a permanent choice made AFTER we've spent 200-400 hours developing your character. IMO, this is in no way comparable to one's Primary, Secondary or Origin... which are things you can change immediately in the lower levels if you decide they're not for you.

I don't care about the RPing aspects of this. Being locked into something after investing a large amount of time on your character is a bad idea all around. I don't care how other MMOs do it. I don't care if it's "tied to content." I don't care if it's being done to curb PLing. It's implications for post-40 character development are going to screw poeple over in the long run, for one reason or another.
I can almost guarantee this format will change if enough people complain. And they will.

This isn't "doom," nor is this a "Devs dropped the ball" post. It's an honest opinion about a change in the game's design that I honestly feel is a bad one. They're intentions are honorable, but this just isn't going to turn out well.

[ QUOTE ]
I just don't think a 'dropped the ball' verdict is justified until we know exactly what we're being tied to here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the fact that we're tied to them at all is reason enough to debate the systems merits. I don't really care what they do, to be honest.
The rest of the design doesn't make any difference. It's pretty obvious that once you pick a patron, you're stuck with them.

I think people are perfectly within their rights to dislike (or like) the concept based on that alone.

I'll be up front and say that my biggest personal reason for not liking this system is: I'm resistant to change. I like the way the CoH model is designed as far as APPs are concerned. While I applaud Cryptic for approaching CoV from a new perspective, I think they spoiled people like me by allowing heroes more leeway in their Epic options.
You can bet that, if Heroes were locked into APPs, we'dve heard this argument ages ago. However, a precedent would've been set and we would've grown to accept it and move on. This change to what we know (and in my case, prefer) isn't going to go over well with a lot of people, if that isn't already obvious.

To the guy that made the ridiculous "Anti-RP" comment... are you serious? What if I wanted to "RP" a scenario where I change my allegiance? It goes both ways. I'd go so far as to say that being "locked into a patron" is far more RP-limiting than the reverse.