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Malrat,

Do you not find it at all odd that a self admitted EM/Regen Stalker - clearly the PvP easy button FoTY- is arguing for nerfs to other Ats and combos? Something about someone sporting this combination supporting an alteration that makes a MUCH weaker powerset rather succeptible to his quick kills just strikes me as a bit asinine.

Funny stuff that you just can't make up.

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Majority rules in this game and the majority of noob PVPers are villians (stalkers mostly) that hang out in Sirens Call getting ticked whenever a stormer shows up. They complain, the Dev's start listening.


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Sadly I find this to be truth in most things. And any good service provider will listen to the majority when they are clamoring for changes. Even if they are whimsical or detrimental to overall service.

The bottom line is retaining and growing your net revenues.

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I don't agree with any of your counter-rationales except for Oxygen Boost, which you agreed with me upon. If a storm cloud following you around executing RANGED lightning attacks against your foes is a "close ranged" power to you, our definitions of what constitute close range and long range attacks are irreconcilable. You can assert I know nothing about the set, but I don't think anyone really believes SNOWSTORM is close ranged. Sure you can cancel it with super jump, but that has precisely zero to do with the fact that you don't have to be standing right next to them to activate it in the first place (Hell, I used to pull with it on my Earth/Storm, although I never played him high enough to start PvPing with him, nor had any intention to do so, he was a concept character -- not easy to pull with a "close ranged" power); excuses and justifications aren't becoming. None of these powers are "close ranged" under any reasonable, rational definition.


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This just goes to prove that you really don't know about this set. How can anyone accept your reasoning and logic supporting a nerf on a set that you really don't have any working knowledge of? Lightining Storm is a summoned power that appears over your head and DOES NOT MOVE. You can't pick a spot 50 feet away to place it and watch it harrass your enemy. It picks its own targets and WILL NOT MOVE. (I do like your suggestion here tho' and hope that the Devs implement it )

Lightning Storm is quite possibly the easiest PvP power in the game to avoid. Stay at range and it won't EVER bother you. Gale is such a bad power that many, many Stormers remove it from their tray. I know of a couple of board posters that purport to utilize it in PvE - but I don't know that I have EVER seen it used in game, especially PvP ..... and it is our ONLY real ranged power! SnowStorm is a targeted debuff that is great, but ranged???? Hell, you go too far and it drops - how about that for range.

But I have a killer ranged SINGLE target heal! Every other set in the freaking game would kill to have this uber power. So great that many skip it completely or take the aid other/aid self combo.


What really frustrates me and many other people that have played/paid money to this game for two years now is for someone with little or no working experience with a powerset or AT to come to the boards explaining why they know a power or set needs a tweaking (read:nerf). I have a level 50 Earth/Storm that was never really regarded as being a powerful character until newer PvP players came up against Hurricane and quickly and suddenly declared it to be too good. Go tell that to the Spines/anything guys that just own me (claws also to a lesser extent). Or anyone with a hold to spare - oh yeah, I hear that villains might be getting those with RV. Because the super uber FoTM EM Stalkers can't kill me very easily I should be nerfed?

I really do agree that permanently pinning players needs to go- and personally I have never attempted to do it in PvP. I'm glad the Devs are looking into preventing this. But to remove the one real strength of the set really isn't a very practical solution. Goodness knows Defenders aren't exactly PvP standouts as it is, and this won't help. I guess Dominators, Tanks and Masterminds need to be beat down a little further also.

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Castle,what are the odds you can change it so that if we slot knockback enhancements we can bring the force of the repel back,atleast that way we are paying for it again with slots we wouldnt otherwise need put in.
As it stands right now I cant effectively protect my team even with multiple CM's and fort on me. Pvp was tough before,and sometimes frustrating depending on the opposition,but now? It's just plain frustrating,the set is now almost gimp,I'm not sure what you see in the future of this set,but if its anything like it is right now,just say it now so I can make MY plans accordingly. At the very least rewrite the power set so the debuff tick and the repel tick are seperate and let the debuff work at a faster rate to help protect us more instantly when a melee toon comes to deal us a instant death blow.
Just keep this in mind while you work on the power Castle,we CAN NO LONGER protect our teams in pvp.

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That's my biggest problem also. We don't exactly bring much to a team unless we can protect them in some way. Last I checked my buffs aren't yet implemented and my debuffs all seem to be AoE. But....... I have a killer single target heal that I can't use to help myself. My teammies practically fall all over themselves to come get some endurance drain protection for PvP. Goodness knows the endurance draining powers need to be toned down again significantly in PvP!

The sarcasm should be getting thick right about now.

If it weren't for Snowstorm I would be giving up on the set altogether. Even then when put on a smart player it gets me in as much trouble as it causes him sometimes.


Someone earlier stated that every other power with Storm is great. Yup - for PvE they are all pretty good. But PvP isn't exactly the same thing as we all know.

Defenders need to be able to defend.

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remember guys...

storms have no self heal
storms have no mez protection
storms have no ranged defense
storms NOW HAVE extremely limited melee defense

they do not need this nerf.

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oh cry me a river. tell that to my bubbler. oh btw at least your storm has offensive capabilities. be thankful.

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Hehe, my first thought is that your poor, poor bubbler probably nees a respec. PFF and mez protection?!?!??! Yeah, that must really suck.

Haha, I'm sure you could teach me.

And the point that you so casually evaded was that of all the Tanker secondaries EM is by far the best equipped to deal with the high level PvP zones. So throwing your EM out as the proverbial exception to the rule doesn't really help or change things. Regardless of when you rolled your tank, you are still a FoTM. Flavor of the last year actually.



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I didn't know others besides blaster have unresistable damage o.O

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He is referring to Crits and AS. Possibly also containment damage, but I can't recall atm. I know a recent thread on the Controllor forums shows that some of the 50s have proven through testing that EPPs are ignoring enemy resistance in PvE. Not positive if that carries over to PvP?

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Notice how all the top ATs in PvP are the ones with unresistable damage?
Probably goes by order of unresistable damage output too...
Stalkers, Scrappers, Blasters

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LOL Prem, my immediate thought when I read this was to equate it to poor Beo's universally resisted damage (s/l) with the 50 PvP zone.


When can I place an order for an "Energy" axe?

Even my Axer was great when the Arena first opened up.


The only controller that was ever a big problem for me back then was an Illusion. Spammed Fears.

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Are you serious Kali?? You must have turned blind if you think tankers do ok in PvP.

Remember that devs balance for teams. Just exactly what do a tank contribute with in a PvP team that no other AT can do better?

Damage, no. Buffs, no. Protecting team members, no. Debuffs, no...

So perhaps a tank can take a bit more beating due to more HP but since a tank is not really that big of a threath WHO CARES!

Master Minds and Dominators at least have tools that make a difference in PvP. Tanks just hang around.

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Say that after a tank comes and slams his energy transfering palm into your eye and follows it up with a double fisted total focus off the top rope.

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And someone immediately whips out the one attack set that is good in PvP. Congratulations for rolling a FoTM. Yes, a EM does quite alright in Warburg. Go try that combination in Sirens and see how you do.

Does it strike anyone particularly odd that when the Arena and PvP first came out that Tanks were king of the mountain. Too powerful and relatively unstoppable. A few minor "tweaks" later here we stand. Castle poking fun at our bottom dwelling state. From one extreme to the other.



It really makes you wonder what some people are doing/thinking when applying "fixes" to this game.

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Has anyone mentioned the old Zookeeper badge requirements?

Did you know... the Zookeeper badge originally had an error which required ten thousand Rikti monkeys to be killed before the badge could be achieved? Since Zookeeper is a requirement for a popular accolade, this resulted in monkey farming teams running marathon sessions against the psychic, gas-spewing Rikti underlings on an island off the main Peregrine Island which came to be known as Monkey Island.

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actually at first the 10k monkeys didnt have the totally absurd and ridiculously stupid psi effect associated with them. It made it possible to herd hundreds at a time and make this badge actually possible to achieve in say, a months time.

who are we to interrupt this rather one sided argument that is quickly derailing this rather fun thread?!?!?!?!?


As for me, I'm just wondering which Dev Ian (or "Sarah" as it looks like he would like to be called) really is.

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This is significant because almost all nerfs since I2 are due to either PLing or to PvPing.

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Just because you say so doesn't make it true.

It's downright false.

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"almost all"


Yes, I'm gonna have to go TRUE on that one.

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I'm sorry...all I can think of after reading Mako's powers is:

"My ability to talk to fish is of no help, Wonder Woman!"

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LMAO!!!!

I just laughed so hard that I think I pulled a stomach muscle. And I didn't even know I had those anymore!!!!!

The Tsoo definitely have the coolest bosses.

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...Faultline was at one time "The" place to level.


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The only time I have EVER seen many peeps in Faultline post beta was with the WL invasion which leads too.....

Did you know..... that the WL gave monster level xp and was used as a quick powerleveling tool for almost a month back in 04-05. It was easy to gain up to 10 levels within a matter of hours. It was commonplace to see level 30 "newbs" running around asking where to train for months afterwards. The PuGs were so bad after this WL invasion that many people stopped running PuGs alltogether.

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Poster: LiquidX
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Did you know...
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That the confirmation box for Teleport was added after players complained because various idiots were using it for griefing purpouses?

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Yup. SG buddy of mine was a pioneer of death by kindness.

But killing a bad person is wrong..... Well after about 10 times.

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Did you know.....

that you could work your way UNDER the glass floor of the main entrance at Atlas city hall by teleporting. And that griefers would/could then teleport you down there leaving you stranded until a Dev came and rescued you.

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The demons that spawn from the Orenbaga portals used to be worth XP. It was common for people to get a portal mission and form 8 man teams and stay in the mission for hours, rotating team members. The teams would stand on a slope, send in a tank to aggro the portal, and go to town on the demons. Magic origin heroes would also get great SO drops.

If you could stand the mind-numbing boredom, which I couldn't.

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I recall Regen scrappers turning on IH and putting Whirling Sword or Spines AoE attack on Auto Fire and leaving the game for hours on end as they just raked in the xp.


Did you know......... that back then the game didn't auto kick you if you went afk and you could conceivably stay logged in forever. The AFK system has been implemented and altered a few times since to try to keep people from using flaws in the system to find ways to PL their characters.

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I remember all the "Save Sally" threads. Was Sally changed from the test server to live? Seems like I read somewhere that she used to attack heroes and fight back.

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Never fought back.

On test she would spawn once a day at first, and 1 single point of damage would do her in. So the Devs decided to feed her some bran to make her a tad more regular.

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Did you know Burn was actually a very very powerful power back in the day? Tanks used to be able to mow down mobs with that power in the matter of second's. A solo fire tank was a major xp machine in a hazard zone back in I1-I2.

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I didn't run a Flamer past the 20s - but I believe that they weren't the Uber xp machines that many of us remember until very late I2 and then the Lords of Xp in I3. I recall Fire/Fire Tankers bragging about hitting 50 in less than 100 hours.

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Did you know some scrappers used to be able to tank mobs without a problem? Some scrappers were able to tank as good as a tanker and even herd mobs without much of a problem. Scrappers were also able to lay out some serious damage. This started a war between the scrapper and tanker forum and became pretty heated for a while. Not only were they able to tank as good as a tank but they out damaged tanks leaving tankers less favored in teams.

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Mainly due to the aforementioned Perma-Unstop that many of the Invulns ran. This leads into the did you know......that Scrappers used to be able to reach the 90% resist cap also, and the Devs reduced the cap for the rest of the ATs (save Kheld) to 75% mostly because of this.



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Did you know controllers were once able to have more then one pet out at a time? Fire controllers were once able to have about 6 or 7 imps out at a time. The other controller sets were able to manage 2 perma pets and a 3rd pet out for a short amount of time.

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Did you know...... that 25 was supposedly the max number of imps one Fire/Kin controller could put out at once. That seems like a bit of a stretch, but several Controllers came forward in a reminiscent thread a few months back and claimed they achieved it. Teaming with some of these zookeepers back then I wouldn't doubt it.

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Did you know...

That I don't know a single interesting, "secret" thing about this game?!

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I bet you knew this:

Did you know.....

...that the Rikti monkeys used to NOT have the stupidly annoying and utterly ridiculous Psi powers. ( I mean - if the regular troops can't Psi you to death how in the HELL can their pet monkeys develop this power????)


...that the escaped prisoners used to actually hand out normal experience for defeating minions. Both of the above villain types were farmed so often that the Devs went back and implemented changes making them relatively useless to hunt unless you are working on badges.


There were several other minion/villain types altered as well, but these two really stick out in my mind for needing some further tweaks.

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Have you guys looked at the dev digest?

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Yeah, that Castle is waaaaaay too efficient. He is the type of guy that I would always point out in staff meetings to help set an example to his peers. Of course the same guy would usually meet with an "accident" in the parking lot by a runaway car whose description vaguely matched one of his co-workers.

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A buff for EM?

Did I log into the Praetorian dimension or something?

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LOL, my thoughts exactly. You KNOW that 100s of EM board reading tanks are just sitting there SHOUTING at their monitor for this topic to dry up and go away without getting nerf bat aggro.


And in other news Stalkers are complaining that AS doesn't do enough damage.

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If the things Blasters and Stalkers can do with EM haven't made us Nerf EM yet, absolutely nothing said here will. Carry on.

EDIT: Said Scrappers, meant Stalkers.

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Bah, there goes Castle ruining my fun poking nerf bat taunts at my EM buddies. As I said in a previous thread - nerf Castle he is obviously over-productive and way to Uber.

I would suggest you roll up an Ice/EM blapper ASAP then Mac so you can really feel the love.

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A buff for EM?

Did I log into the Praetorian dimension or something?

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LOL, my thoughts exactly. You KNOW that 100s of EM board reading tanks are just sitting there SHOUTING at their monitor for this topic to dry up and go away without getting nerf bat aggro.


And in other news Stalkers are complaining that AS doesn't do enough damage.