PorkchopXpress

After trying all the "Fragile" ATs during this event I must admit that melees with mez seems to be unfair. On both sides. As a Fragile with a huge glowing target on your back constantly being hunted you shouldn't have to worry about being mez'ed with every 3rd shot from a FoTM melee as well.

I now feel empathy for my squishy friends that have to carry trays full of breakfrees every time they enter a PvP zone.

At least I can feel their pain when I get one shot held/killed by Ghost Widow through both Unyielding AND Unstoppable!

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Energy Absorption drains about 35% End in PvP with three +3 End Mods.

Blaster Power Sink does about the same. Even more with Power Boost.

The Defender APP version does about 35-40% IIRC.

Brute Power Sink does about 40-45% from what I've seen. It's not 50%. It might be a tad too much, but this 'is' what Electric Armor's secondary damage mitigation is: Endurance Modification. If it does get changed, it shouldn't be by very much.

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I haven't seen the Defender APP version but the rest feels/looks right. I believe the Defender Transference hits in at about 42% 3 slotted as well. Power Sink seems to be doing as much drain to PvE opponents as to PvP. That seems odd to me as I thought there was a coded difference into the drain % for each.

Hopefully they don't gut Power Sink completely if(when) they decide to look into it.

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And don't get me wrong - I really like Electric Armor and am considering playing one up. I'm just seeing this as a power that the Devs will undoubtedly zero in on. And if they don't you can bet the bank that once good (read: know what they are doing and are very effective at sapping) /Elecs make it up to the PvP zones the whining on the boards will be pretty big.

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Perhaps I misunderstand how Transferrance works. My understanding is that it steals endurance no matter what. No one has to be in range for that to work, it's just that, if no one is in range no one gets endurance. It has a 60' base range. Of course, it is also single target, but has 1/2 the recharge of Power Sink. (Ranged AoE drain is truly a disgusting concept.)

As has been pointed out, Electric Armor/Power Sink and Energy Aura/Energy Drain seem to be identical powers.

How do you quantify the difference in performance in Ice Armor/Energy Absorbtion? Does EA just drain less end? I am honestly curious, because my SG-mate was commenting on how disgusting he felt the end drain of EA was. While EA does not transfer the endurance to the user, it seems strainge to me that the powers would be so vastly different.

I certainly expect Electric/PS and Energy/ED to be the same power. I'll be somewhat surprised if Ice/EA isn't comparable in end drain.

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I have yet to play an EA Brute past level 10 so I am no expert, but I was under the impression their energy drain had a to hit check. Also in my battles with them in past PvP they didn't seem to be able to pull the blue that PowerSink does. This is strictly "feel" values mind you - but it seems like a noticeable difference to me. I'm sure some proper testing will be done soon by the curious number crunchers.

As for Transference it is a ranged target - yes, but it also has a To Hit check. This requires most Kins to put at least two slots of acc into it, and probably take Tactics as well. You have to be within a 10' (approx) to receive the boost. I was zapping about half a blue bar of an even level boss with PowerSink - which is about the same as my Kin defender. Pretty strong stuff.

EA is nowhere close to this level of power - but as previously stated it has side benefits to go along with it including added defense.

I'm not stating that 'Sink is disgustingly powerful or "broken" by any means. Especially compared to some of the powers that have made it into PvP in the past. But to me it feels too strong. Especially in conjunction with Aid Self to cover up the sets flaws (which most everyone will more than likely take).


As for the Emp fallout - hehe I wouldn't know since I was running for my life everytime it crashed. That crash has to be adjusted some - it is way to harsh.

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I agree that the NPCs are over done. You maanage to flee a losing fight in PVP, and everywhere you turn is a warden. Appearently, they not only grow on trees but the trees were recently harvested.

Same for the pill box guns. They will kill a squishy trying to get a pillbox, but a blaster with aim+BU+TF will kill you without taking a hit as you sit in the middle of the turrents. How about a hurricane effect for the middle of the turrents until the guns are down?

Even my tank couldnt take turrents, are they supposed to be EB/AV difficulty?

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Today was the first time I really noticed the marauding level 54 Huntsman Bosses that seemed to be patrolling the entire zone. WTH!!!! Having a nice friendly fight with a Brute and a Stalker on my Ice Tanker and WHAM! Practically one shot!!! My teammies asked what happened from across the zone.

I saw this same group of 4 wandering all over the map. The only time they would EVER meet any resistance is when they caught up to a Stoner and that is just because they are too slow to get away.

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but as it stands this power is as good as Transference - and melees probably shouldn't be running around with that capability.

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I don't understand this statement. Why can't a melee have this sort of capability when it requires them to, you know, be in melee? If a Kinetics character can do it at range, what's the issue?

Now if this has slipped under the covers as one of those "we forgot to reduce it to 25% of PvE" things, then sure.

Honestly, desptite 3-slotting it for end mod, I was mostly interested in the effect on my own endurance, not how much I was stealing. I actually didn't notice.

Is this particularly stronger than Ice/Energy Absorbtion? That also is auto-hit and shares the same recharge time.

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I ran it for several hours yesterday with three slots of End Mod in it.

Today I ran Ice Melee for about three hours with a three end mod slotted Energy Abosrbtion and there is absolutely no question in my mind that Power Sink is by far superiour in every way. Saying that it is twice the effectiveness may not be doing it justice.


And don't get me wrong - I really like Electric Armor and am considering playing one up. I'm just seeing this as a power that the Devs will undoubtedly zero in on. And if they don't you can bet the bank that once good (read: know what they are doing and are very effective at sapping) /Elecs make it up to the PvP zones the whining on the boards will be pretty big.



As for why a melee can't do what a Kin can....... I honestly think if you stop for a sec and think about that question Uber you would understand. You are a knowledgeable poster, and therefore understand the dynamics between high hit point, mez resistant melee characters versus mid/low hit point non mez resistant Fragiles. Some things that Fragiles can do just should not be allowable for melees or the dynamic becomes unbalanced.

In this instance a single Kin Defender for instance entering melee range to sap a Brute's endurance is more than likely going to pay the consequences by taking a good deal of damage and runs a high risk of being mezzed by some form of attack. A Brute that has this ability doesn't have the same consequences to pay with his armors and mez resistance. They can run up to anyone with near impunity and be a black hole of the Blue.

I'm not saying this power should be taken away or nerfed to the dark ages like the Developers are sometimes known to do, but right now as it stand it is imho a tad too much.

If yesterday was the Elec/Elec and Gang MMs show then today was definitely Return of the Heroes.


All the Ice Tanks out there almost made the /Elec Brutes envious by comparison.


Last I checked at 12:30 Central time there were SIXTEEN instanced RVs. Nice tally.

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Power sink does not seem to miss at all. It cannot be slotted for accuracy.

In several hours of usage I did not see it miss.

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Played yesterday for several hours WITH PowerSink and loved it.

Played this morning for several hours AGAINST all the /Elecs and PoweSink and WHOA!

I'm gonna have to call it now and state this power is probably too good "as is". Especially as compared to its' peer powers. Fighting any good /Elec Brute today they would/could just wait until you were through an entire attack chain then hit Power Sink on you. Immediately afterwards you either have to A)flee B) cut back on attacks and look for a time stall to gain endurance or C) die.

Now the only caveat to this is when Insps are introduced back into the picture the blue chiclets are as common as /EM blappers. Everywhere. That might take a chunk out of the effectiveness, but as it stands this power is as good as Transference - and melees probably shouldn't be running around with that capability.


I did notice today while playing a Ice/SS Tank that I was routinely knocking /Elecs into the air with knockup. Something that should probably be addressed.

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how'd you have FA if you're only level 40?


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I didn't play a Tank today in RV - only villains. Plenty of experience with Tankers, so no real need to test.

And my Tanker was level 40 back in August (?) of '04, so no problems there.

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RV is fitting for 50's. And villains, if they coordinate, are every bit as powerful as heroes. I don't want to hear any more gripes. Overall the Devs did a great job with the zone. It was hectic and fast paced and full of excitement. I think it may have gotten a little too hectic at times, because the action did not stop. The whole no health/no endurance thing has got to go. It is just a hastle really.

I killed as a couple different "under powered AT's" so no one should be really complaining. I even killed as a fire/kin controller, so other trollers surely have a chance. Used an elec/elec blaster build too...not very useful. I think I was just not made for PVP; I just gotta go back when I hit 50. Definitely a cool zone.

Drawbacks: MM's rock if all the pets are thereand you are used to playing with them AND you can transport them, but if you can't transport them, you are absolutly useless. Tanks may be over powered. There were a bunch of villains already attacking this tank and I rolled up with my Thug/dark MM and all pets AND Gang War and it still took a while to kill him. Still fun though.

Overall: if the zone calms down just a little(due to everybody and their mama being on test) and the signature AV's /Heroes get tweaked, it could be an EXTREMELY addictive zone.

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Nice thoughts and post - but two things:

You seem surprised that a Fire/Kin can kill?!?!?!!? Huh. Have you not seen the monkey herders from day one. Even post EDaggedon they still are flaming terrors. That combo is probably second only to some powerful Illusionist ones as far as single player kill aspects go.

And Tanks overpowered?!?!?!??! Huh. There is only ONE aspect of Tanks that is anywhere nearing overpowered and that powerset is a universal troublemaker through AT boundaries. Tanks take a little longer to kill now that you can't sneeze at them and knock their toggles off. But people still treat them as a roadbump, or more like an obstacle. The only time I even saw a Tank being useful today was when they Taunted me. Otherwise they were running around looking for fights with the Connor McCleod look from the beginning of Highlander.

"Why won't they fight me dammit!"

Hehe, but they sure weren't getting any kills either.


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I'm REALLY enjoying the lack of inspirations in RV on test right now. I'd play in there on live often, on both sides, if they flat out banned inspiration use in PvP.

The entire zone feels balanced. Folks that are Eluding are almost impossible to hit. Got your 9th tier dam-res power up, you're NOT taking much damage and it WILL take several enemies to bring you down.

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I LOVED the no insps version of RV today. It really streamlined the entire PvP process and made everything so much simpler. Simpler is usually funner, and in this case it was definitely the case. Too bad it won't stay like that.


As for Elude - whoa!

I had 3 slotted FA, 3 slotted Invince, +5% Axe bonus and 2 accuracies slotted in all attacks and I couldn't hit. With Buildup on top of it I was still only hitting at around 20%.

I posted this to get a general view and the anti FA naysayers immediately pounced on everything wrong with the world and PvP and elude and FA and how little kittens were being murdered in rogue countries across the world. Apparently nothing should be able to beat Elude except a fully stacked team with everyone running Tactics and FA, and everything should be able to overcome FAs gamekilling effects. (hyperbole abounds - hehe)


And I ran across a MoG'ing Warden also. Freaking rough. Without the Power Sink on my cool new Elec/Elec I woulda been toast!

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Your analysis is pretty accurate, I'll add a little of what I saw from trying it out:

a) Jacobs Ladder has about the same animation time as Shadow Maul but far less damage,
b) Lightning Rod has a 90 second recharge (it is bugged and only 60 on test) making it not really available as a "finisher",
c) LR's coolness and pseudo-utility factor aside, its recharge means it won't be available every fight - and so Fire catches up in the AOE damage race.

This is all depending on how Chain Induction goes. The fact that we are a week away from projected release (Posi said within May) and this power is still up in the air, kind of cripples any real projection on how ELM will perform. If CI ends up as a 8 BI single target attack, the set is done. If we get a 3.something BI that can do non-Furied damage to 1-2 extra guys, ELM will be good for coolness factor and that's about it.

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Build up definitely helps! I had it in lieu of the medicine pool today and in evaluating the build I would cut out Fitness entirely and take those 3.

It was a little underpowered for damage. The only real reason I was able to kill so effectively was that I could drain a foe's blue with Power Sink then take them while stunned or detoggled with a buildup/attack chain. Without that trick it definitely lacks in the single target damage that EM has.

An EM/Elec combo.

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I was reading where powersurge knocked you down to 10%-20% health when it crashed but today it was knocking me down to 1 hp

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Yeah, that seems very bugg-ish. Unstoppable is not nearly that bad since you have Dull Pain ready to roll if you know what you are doing. This seems a wee bit harsh, and a guaranteed death if you are near action. No passives to fall back on and no self heal = dead Brute if you have any aggro.

I think I had a very small fire DoT going while it crashed at one point and the minions residual damage killed me the INSTANT it crashed. That was just for a measly drive by spider attack. Rough.

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it should be 60 secs base though

90 secs is pretty damn long, and they still haven't increased the damage to compensate

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With Hasten and the inherant in the Elec defense it is up way more often than I could use it. (sure that's one def set - but still)

My biggest issue is with the animation time for Jacob's Ladder. Way too long for the effect imho.

it's a nice turn of events on the test server today. Bajillions of villains everywhere and the heros running for the hills.

Every now and again you will see a well organized team of heros make a stand and start making headway....then BAM! They get zerg'ed by the army of elec/elec Brutes that are overtaking the server.

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Any Soul Mastery pics? I know they're recycled attacks but I've seen a glimpse of some of the powers and they seem to have a more GW-ish reworked animation. So, any pics? (preferrably MM powers.)

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I am severly disappointed with the lack of actual pics and hard numbers on not only GW's set but all of the Patrons. To think we are gonna go Live this way also scares me. At this point I am going to level to 50 taking regular pool powers and then respec into one of the Patrons after they have a thorough guide compiled on them.

Rubbish.

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1 shot mezzed by anything in PVE or PVP before. I drop to the ground.

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You must be avoiding Ghost Widow like the plague then in RV. One shot mez/death through Unyielding AND Unstoppable.

Does it make a noticeable difference when used to buff your AoE powers Uber?

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Totally false. Never seen anything even remotely like this happen after many hours in RV.


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Actually, it seems to happen quite often. With FA up, hitting anything, including and of course stalkers, is no real problem to me. And I tend to see them despite their best efforts.

Very discouraging as a villain player, very pleasing as a hero player.

But bad for the game.

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Not that I don't believe you, but test it on an Elude running Stalker and show us your results if you get a chance.

The only hero type that I can imagine having more +To Hit and Acc than my Tanker would be a BS/Inv with both Tactics and FA (since they would get the Invince slotting and +5% for weapon also - as well as Build Up). Of course this is all without a team of people buffing and debuffing - any hero or villain should be SoL against that.

I'm still surprised by the drastic difference between Overload and Elude defenses.

Hehe - we were joling about MoG also - UNTIL he regen'ed his full Health while being unhittable.

And this wasn't just the 95% defense cap stuff too - we had an army of people that didn't even land a friggin STREAK BREAKER. Was really impressive! I vote Mako the most bada$$ of the Recluse Lts.


Anyone else snotice any PLAYER defense changes today?

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Has anyone checked the Scrappers? I have yet to hit one. 12 misses my first day out with dbl acc.'s in my attacks and no hits at all on a Scrappmeister. At least it would be balanced.

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That would imply you are seeing something OTHER than Regen Scrappers in RV.

Some PvP Thoughts From Today:

Logged in to check my build some more and to mess around in RV. First I tried to tackle Mako along with about 16 heros and Mechs. We got him down to about 1/7th health and he went into a Super Mako MoG. Absolutely, 100% could not hit him no matter what ANY of us did - and he regen'ed all the way back to full Health. OK we say, lets try again since the recharge on that thing has to be pretty huge. Nope, same thing every time we got him below 25% health. Pretty freaking ridiculous. Finally we all gave up.


Next I heard some blasters complaining about not being able to hit Stalkers today - AT ALL. Odd, I thought. Just yesterday I was having no problems so I tried it as well. Very, very difficult. I found a nice Stalker (Stalkerbot1 I think?) that wanted to test it as well and he proceeded to let me wail on him for a bit.
I had FA(2 slots for ToHit)/Buildup(1 slot for ToHit)/Invince(3 slots for ToHit) and 2 Accs in all of my attacks - pretty accuracy heavy build. Without his Elude I was hitting pretty consistently. When he popped it on I was completely floored. I believe my numbers were at about 18% with buildup - and around 12% without. I added one Large Acc Insp and got it up to about 22%. Maybe I'm a conspiracy theorist - but this was NOWHERE near what I have been seeing to date. I'm thinking that todays patch had to have something to do with Stalkers defense. Several people in the zone were complaining about how they couldn't hit Stalkers while throwing everything they had at them - and I can understand seeing my low % and the huge acc buffs I was using.

After this test I had a nice Brute(Hundred) that wanted to test his Overload #s as well. With the same slotting above I was hitting him pretty consistently with his normal defenses running. When Overload kicked in I was down to about 38%. We tested at length - with over 25 attacks in between interruptions so the numbers seem pretty solid.

So I'm pretty confused atm - the Elude number seems very different from my past experiences - but the Overload seems consistent to what I saw in the past.

Anyone else notice any changes today in RV?

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One comment I would like to make is with the pillbox design. I was really hoping for something more like those in Bloody Bay, or perhaps even the towers you must lead the scientists to in Warbug.

The pillboxes are just dropped in the open. I would really like it if they (or some) were made more defendable, giving the more static sets (Traps, Dark Miasma, Devices, Storm, etc) a role in the pvp zone environment (other than TpFoe ganking).

As it stands, the boxes are all out in the open which makes them much to easy to take out and zerg, or snipe at long range. Just a thought.

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I agree 100%.

Very disappointed in the look of the pillboxes. I guess I expected, well...... a pillbox! Not some Nintendo gamecube looking transplant. Make them old school cool, not new age glowy.

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I HUNGER FOR SCREENSHOTS!!!! OF ALL SHAPES AND KINDS!!! MY WRATH SHALL BE BOUNDLESS IF NOT APPEASED!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ] Um what he said.

That one screen shot that was posted earlier was great (and I didn't wanna be the one to say this but no-one elnce has so) but why did you have to ruin it by sticking your character's butt in there.

Sorry but you can zoom the camera in so we don't have to see your character or at least turn the camera angle around so we can see you from the front. It just looks really bad to see someone's back in the middle of what could be a really great picture.

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Not the best pics - but some I saved for my character.

Great Hall

First Contact

Patrons

This is totally unacceptable, Grandville MUST be nerfed!

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I will say that a 100% toggle dropper had better have some serious sort of downside, or alternatively only given to a power set that barely has more damage than brawl, or its unlikely to be fair.

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Something along the lines of Storm's Thunderclap? Or Kin's Repel?


I hate to even open the door to something along these lines - but Defenders definitely need SOMETHING. Maybe a very high % toggle drop in each of their Primarys might not be out of the question??!??!?!?!?! Maybe. Pick a horrible current power and give it some love. Black Hole for Dark for instance.

The only problem with this is if you did it EVERYONE would start their justifaction threads why "X" AT needs a similar power.

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Ugh. My workaround is borked. I can load the zone okay, but trying to go to the base crashes the game.

So I fall from midair, dead, because I'd fallen to lvl 45 mobs on the way to my contact from a mish. I try to release to base, and I crash

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Not only does this crash the game for me and make the affected villain useless on test (mandatory deletion) - it ALSO causes the game to have to re-verify all files every time you start up Test after this happens.

How totally friggin frustrating!