PantherShade

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PantherShade recognizes sarcasm, and thinks that the Kansas accent made it unclear.

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Sure, like YOU have room to talk. You're from Boston. I grew up in Maine, and even WE thought you Massholes had a messed up accent! So there!

Also, gold star for detecting sarcasm.

Was THAT sarcasm?

The world may never know.

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Ooh, so close!
I'm not FROM Boston, I just live here now.
I was actually brought up in the Midwest.
Thus, I know that many Midwesterners are chosen for TV anchor due to their lack of accent.
My quip about your accent was sarcasm!

PantherShade recognizes sarcasm, and thinks that the Kansas accent made it unclear.

Maybe that should have been a PM?

Maybe it was one of Elf's students.

This is exactly as important now as it was 3 month ago for SF.

No.

You need Placate for that.

I'm such an addict, that I think of those things.

Yes, I'm also such an addict that I use smilies in real life!

And, some of them have been wearing the same outfit for days with no shower.

Well, as noted above, coding something for a single server seems to be prohibitive. Unless you can suggest an alternative or provide acceptable criteria, just say that you're against any permanent fixture and be done.

I'm sorry if you take that as a dismissive response, but dragging the "single server" argument out just isn't productive.


On a seperate note, what about putting something up on the billboards? It's free to COH, as long as they aren't already posting something from a paid sponsor.

Of course, that takes away from the location idea. Personally, I'd prefer a connection to the location, but at least I'm trying to be productive.

We seem to have several people repeating themselves, so I have some suggestions:


If you think that a plaque is a good idea, please voice your opinion (if you haven’t). Also, look at some of the other alternate suggestions and voice your thoughts on those ideas. Perhaps a fitting alternative isn’t so bad.

If you think that Tanker Tuesday has not met some nebulous set of criteria for a plaque, please list the criteria you would consider appropriate. I encourage you to be as specific as possible. This will help a productive dialog, which we can all enjoy.

If you think that only a plaque on the Champion server is appropriate, please feel free to voice opinion (if you haven’t). I’m pretty sure that such things are prohibitive because of the coding though. Many people have noted that this is an acceptable alternative, but if the Devs can’t do it, then perhaps it would be wise to consider something else.

If you think that a plaque specifically is inappropriate, please feel free to suggest alternatives, if you think of any. Alternately, provide some productive feedback on some of the alternatives already suggested. I don’t doubt that the proponents are willing to consider a thoughtful response.

If you are opposed to the idea based on some type of comparison (valid or otherwise), please keep in mind that this is not a contest. The proponents of the idea don’t seem to be attempting to invalidate anyone else’s events, and your similar courtesy would be appreciated. Having Tanker Tuesday receive a plaque (or alternate) will have no impact on anything else receiving a plaque. If you think that something else is just as worthy, please start a separate thread suggesting that it receive a plaque, and it can stand on its own merits, just like Tanker Tuesday.

If you are opposed to ANY type of player recognition in game, please voice your opinion (if you haven’t) and be done. It is unlikely that you will change your mind or the supporters of the idea. Thank you for taking the time to add your thoughts for the consideration of the Devs, who will ultimately decide.

If you have cemented yourself in your opinion, on either side, then firing back at others isn’t productive. Thank you for taking the time to add your thoughts for the consideration of the Devs, who will ultimately decide.

If you are limiting your responses to flaming and accusations, then nothing anyone says (except a maybe moderator) will deter you. Everyone else is encouraged to just hit the report button on the bottom of your post and move on.



In the spirit of dialog and considering alternatives, I posted this before, but it seems to have gotten wiped due to being tacked on the end of a deleted post. (Dang you Quick Reply!)

For those people opposed to a plaque because of the current nature of what’s on a plaque, then how about a location badge?
It could be placed on top of the wall instead of on the face of the wall. That way, it won’t disrupt your 4th wall any more than any other badge, and it maintains a sense of location.
Also, badges DO have a history of coming from player ideas.

I’ll “quick reply” to a few things:

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I find it amusing you can use this as a dismissal, when what is essentially the exact same argument in reverse is what's being said about wanting a plaque. In fact, I can even quote your very next sentence:
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Although they seem more reasonable to you, we disagree.

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for the opposing standpoint as well.

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And I support your right to disagree. But, you stated your disagreement with the concept and then continue to argue. I was merely pointing out that I didn’t agree with your previous suggestions, so I moved on, instead of dragging it out.



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And yet people complain about veteran rewards....

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There will always be someone complaining about anything; it does not automatically mean those complaints are worth considering.



“I never heard of it.” “I’ve ever seen it.” etc.
As has been stated, there are many things which many people have never witnessed personally, but that has no bearing on their existence and worth.



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Make it server specific.

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If coding worked that way, then that would indeed be a reasonable stipulation. However, such is not the case. Since it can’t be sever specific, and it does no harm to other severs, then having a plaque on all servers isn’t an issue for me.



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No, it's not "just" that it's only on one server, though it's a fair illustration of the lack of impact both in and *out* of the game.

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So, what percentage of servers would you find palatable?
I’ve asked for criteria more than once, but none has been produced by anyone. If you want to use that as a sticking point, then offer up your standards. I’ll go ahead and presume that you’re not being obstinate and using that as a lame excuse.



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Also it should be on a loading tip.

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Now this is something I might find palatable. Unlike other suggestions, it is a permanent notification, not just something that comes up for a short time. Tanker Tuesday perseveres, and so should the tribute. I’d look at it like a consolation prize. It’s not optimal, but it’s good.



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The only possible option to get your [Mission Architect] story added to canon would be to write something so spectacular that NC hires you as a writer, and then convince Posi and the gang to wedge your story in along with the story they're already planning to put in place.

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That is your assumption. No Dev has stated that an arc created in MA can not become canon. Although it s certainly true that such a thing is unlikely, that is not the same as impossible.



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Plaques refer to in game lore. Backstory. Events which were shown to change, in-world, COH history... that affects everyone. I believe I made this point earlier.

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Actually, you didn’t. But, I do consider that a valid point. I didn’t find a comprehensive list of plaques, so I was unable to search for the content of all plaques in game. Thus, I can’t actually refute your statement, except to the extent that Tanker Tuesday does indeed happen in game. However, I understand your point is that is not “CoH History” like the Rikti invasion or Faultline, and I can understand the opposition on that basis.

So, would you consider a badge to be more palatable? Badges have certainly referred to things that did not happen in “CoH History” or even in game. But, how would one acquire such a badge? Perhaps a badge marker could be placed on top of the wall, instead of a plaque on the wall. I would certainly be willing to compromise on that point.

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Fine, as long as the Cape Radio gets one too.

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I agree! I think that the big radio tower in the Rogue Isles is a perfectly appropriate spot for a shout out.

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You set no criteria for Tanker Tuesday to meet to deserve a plaque that it has not already met. At what point do you either concede that it qualifies or admit that you are just being oppositional?

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I will when I get a good argument to the contrary as to why the counterproposals are not good enough, where this is the only acceptable option for a single server event, as long running as it may be.

You've given me no reason to support a permanent marker inside the game over any other celebratory event for the anniversary of this single server, single AT. event. And I've proposed *more* than most - including things that would be visible to those *outside* the game - yet aside from Acemace's listing, those seem to go ignored.

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I’ve read your alternate suggestions and appreciated the attempt. However, several of the things you mention have already been done for the third anniversary of Tanker Tuesday, and the rest of the items seem lacking and insufficient. While they were greatly appreciated then, and still are now, many people feel that an increase in recognition is not out of line, much like veteran rewards get better as you keep staying committed to the game.

Is it the “only acceptable option”? Perhaps not, but the alternate suggestions so far don’t seem sufficient or as fitting to many of us. Although they seem more reasonable to you, we disagree. You have not yet given a good argument to the contrary as to why a plaque is too good.


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At what point do *you* concede?

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I’m not just being oppositional, so that’s out.

I will be happy to concede when you can propose realistic criteria for a plaque which Tanker Tuesday has not already met.
Your proposal should take an event into consideration as separate from other things; a comparison is not really valid criteria, although some may serve as a yardstick.
You’ll have to stop using inappropriate comparisons in your argument completely. (Events will never equate to groups, even though they both involve people.)

I don’t think any of that is unreasonable, do you?



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Or, as Wikked put it:
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Because there are other ways to recognise a SINGLE SERVER event then to enshrine it gamewide.

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As others have pointed out, Tanker Tuesday has not just been limited to the Champion server, even though only the Champion server has managed to consistently host the event.


So, let’s try to cut through some of the oppositional BS.
Is your only sticking point that you feel Tanker Tuesday is not being held regularly on enough servers?
If so, how many servers need to participate on a regular basis? And, for how long?
If (an)other server(s) do not consistently continue Tanker Tuesday, are you suggesting that is a failure of the server or an indicator of the worthiness of Champion’s achievement?

You set no criteria for Tanker Tuesday to meet to deserve a plaque that it has not already met. At what point do you either concede that it qualifies or admit that you are just being oppositional?

Um, wrong.

An event is attended by players.
An SG is comprised of players.

The Rikti Invasion is an EVENT.
The Freedom Phalanx is an SG.


I'm not dissing the accomplishemnts of the many great SGs (and coalitions) out there. But, the two just are [u]NOT[u] the same.

If those SGs hold a regular event lasting for 5 years, then I encourage them to sumbit a similar idea.
(Disclaimer: Tanker Tuesday is not an event put on by a single SG or coalition. Tanker Tuesday is an event put on by server communities as a whole.)


Relevant definitions from dictionary.com:
e-vent [i-vent] –noun
1. something that happens or is regarded as happening; an occurrence, esp. one of some importance.

group [groop] –noun
1. any collection or assemblage of persons or things; cluster; aggregation: a group of protesters; a remarkable group of paintings.

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An event is a group of players. A SG - in fact, a network of SGs - is, as well.

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Um, wrong.

An event is attended by players.
An SG is comprised of players.

The Rikti Invasion is an EVENT.
The Freedom Phalanx is an SG.


I'm not dissing the accomplishemnts of the many great SGs (and coalitions) out there. But, the two just are [u]NOT[u] the same.

If those SGs hold a regular event lasting for 5 years, then I encourage them to sumbit a similar idea.
(Disclaimer: Tanker Tuesday is not an event put on by a single SG or coalition. Tanker Tuesday is an event put on by server communities as a whole.)


Relevant definitions from dictionary.com:
e-vent [i-vent] –noun
1. something that happens or is regarded as happening; an occurrence, esp. one of some importance.

group [groop] –noun
1. any collection or assemblage of persons or things; cluster; aggregation: a group of protesters; a remarkable group of paintings.

Still a group of players, and NOT an event.

But, thank you for the clarification.
Do they have anyone on Champion?

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to be honest with you I've never heard of Tanker Tuesday till this thread.

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Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!

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I find it funny when people who disagree are attacked for not agreeing with someone elses opinion. Why is the person disagreeing not intitled to thier opinion?

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I agree with that. On both sides. However, I see the opponents post as more attack oriented than the defensive posts of the proponents.

If you disagree with the idea, fine. Noted. I support your right to disagree.
But, some have stuck around to attack the idea. Repeatedly. That's more than just stating one's opinion.

Personally, I'm just try to help explain the reasoning and rubuttals.

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RO has done more then TT ever has.

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First of all, an event is NOT the same as an SG. If you feel the need to compare your SG to something, stick to another SG.

Second, I never heard of Repeat Offenders until this thread.
Did I miss them on the updater?
Did I miss them in the MotD?
Did I miss them in the Ciry Scoop?
Did I miss them in the Players Choice award winners?



If your SG sponsors events, then they should be proud of themselves. But, that holds no relevance to a plaque for Tanker Tuesday.

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As for the MOTD - I'm assuming you mean on the updater. There's been quite a lot there. And events can be put there at the request of the organizers. That's not, to me, a major factor in its importance. Many events have been there.

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You assume incorrectly, which is why I listed the MotD separate from the updater. The updater is what you get before loading the game. The MotD is what you get after you login to a character.

Tanker Tuesday has been on both. It has also been featured in the City Scoop and voted Best Player Run Event, a Dev run contest spanning all servers.


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The same can be said of many events as far as keeping interest. What has it done for interest in villainside directly?

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Tanker Tuesday has directly spawned Mastermind Monday, Brutal Bruiseday, Corrupticon, Domination Day, and Stalker Sunday. That is what it has done for the villain side directly.

On the hero side, Tanker Tuesday has spawned Controller Wednesday, Defender Dursday, Scrapper Saturday, and Blaster Dedsday.

Sorry, but I don’t know of any epic AT days getting spawned.


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And again, being a multi-server player, I never hear about it in game, or referred to by anybody in game, even when on champion.

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I can’t force you to read the updater or MotD. After they put up a plaque, there will be a convenient place for you to go hear about it in game.

I never heard of Repeat Offenders until this thread, and the Taxibots seem long gone.


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Way to dismiss the arguments pointing out what those SGs have done and the cross AT, truly multiserver nature of them. Dismissing said impact is just as much a fallacy.

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Perhaps you misunderstood the term. Comparing Tanker Tuesday to [u]ANY[u] SG is akin to comparing apples and fish. It’s not my fault that illogical comparisons should be dismissed.

Tanker Tuesday is about an [u]EVENT[u], not a group of players. The proposed plaque is for the EVENT, not for a group of players.

If you want to compare Repeat Offenders or the Taxibots to something, then compare them to Tank HQ, the tanker SG offered to tankers who need a home. Tank HQ is one of the SGs represented at Tanker Tuesday. However, this thread is not about Tank HQ, or any group of players.

When Repeat Offenders or the Taxibots get together with the entire community to sponsor a regular event which lasts for 5 years, then feel free to compare that event to Tanker Tuesday as an equal.


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I know full well RO ends up drawing in non-RO players and accepting them into their events. TT is not doing something here the others do not.

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To be clear, an SG which allows non-SG members to participate in its events is not uncommon. However, an SG is still about the PEOPLE, not an event. Even so, such SG events are not on a comparable scale with Tanker Tuesday. Even though a single SG started the first Tanker Tuesday, no single SG runs the event now. It is a community effort. So, yeah, Tanker Tuesday is indeed doing something here that others are not.



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TT has one location, on one server, that it's associated with. Costume contests, as you mention, are found under atlas... but on every server. And they have been there for as long as I've been in game, and before. Should we then have a costume contest plaque? It truly IS something that's been honestly community run, spontaneously, for as long.

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1.) There is already a plaque at that location.
2.) Costume contests, while common, are not a consistent, regular event. Also, they are typically run by a conglomeration of SGs. If a server (not a single SG or coalition) held a regularly scheduled costume contest for 5 years, then your comparison would be valid.


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See prior comments on "wanting to open that door - or floodgate."

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The “door” or “floodgate” is not yours to open or close. They have been open since badges were introduced. There are already several things in game making reference to player inspired content.


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And why have a plaque on every server - as they cannot, to the best of our knowledge - be server-specific, for an event that is not on every server?

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As has already been pointed out to you, Tanker Tuesday has crossed servers.

Plus, the fact that no other server communities has been able to consistently keep an event going is reason enough to put up a plaque in recognition Tanker Tuesday, commemorating the server than could.


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Its longevity is admirable. Its impact on the game as a whole is questionable. And, see prior response.

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And answered, see prior response.


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I'd be pushing any OTHER group or event just as hard to prove they should get something similar if they proposed it.

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Fine, but you set no criteria for Tanker Tuesday to meet that it has not already met. At what point do you either concede that it qualifies or admit that you are just being oppositional?


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I've proposed alternatives. If your comment about a plaque "getting attention and drawing others to the event" is true, you should be supporting the alternatives, which would by their nature draw even MORE attention in theory.

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I prefer the plaque idea, which seems more appropriate. I’m not opposed to the addition of some of your other suggestions, though.

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I mean, "Kill Skuls" didn't happen on my server, yet it got wall graffitti.

[/ QUOTE ]Kill Skuls came from the forums.

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[u]MOST[u] players never come to the forums. In fact, there are more players from the Champion server than from the forums, whether you include those on both or not!

Tanker Tuesday predates PERC, PvPEC, and even MEGAFORCE. (For those that are unaware or don’t remember, MEGAFORCE was a group of players from different SGs that did what PERC now does, only without Dev support.) It is a lasting event demonstrating player commitment to community.

Tanker Tuesday has been a featured event on the updater and CoH MotD, reaching the majority of players who don’t ever read the forums. Placing a simple plaque offers the chance to promote more involvement in the event and in the community. If you don’t think that players should be involved in their community, then why are you even on the message boards?

Tanker Tuesday has inspired spin-offs of the event to other servers and also inspired the creation of events highlighting other ATs. It has invigorated players and been a force to keep people interested in the game month after month.

Tanker Tuesday is a monthly event, not an SG. It draws people from all SGs together. Comparing it to an SG (of any type) is simply a fallacy.

Tanker Tuesday is not about any single player or group of players. No one is suggesting that the founders of Tanker Tuesday (or any player or SG) be called out, no matter how much positive recognition they may deserve. Rather, the suggestion is for Tanker Tuesday itself, an event that draws people together as much as any raid (which offer badges and merits) or TF/SF/Trial (which offer badges and merits).

Tanker Tuesday is associated with a specific location in the game. Just as costume contests are associated with the statue of Atlas, Tanker Tuesday is associated with the wall in Kings Row. Thus, having a plaque in that location is a fitting monument.

A plaque commemorating Tanker Tuesday proffers no threat or harm to any other group or event. Just because Tanker Tuesday get honored, that doesn’t impact honoring (or choosing not to honor) anything else.

Titles from Devs are nice and all, but temporary. Placing a simple plaque offers the ability to confer a title with a simple click (if the Devs want a title to go along with it). If someone doesn’t want it, then they don’t have to click on the plaque.

Honoring players (even without mentioning their names) for creating a lasting event which draws a community together is a positive thing. I find it sad to see people arguing to prevent it. How exactly is anyone harmed by this suggestion in any way?

Tanker Tuesday is not in conflict with the SGs or events previously mentioned in the thread. There is no competition here with anything else. Rather, commemorating Tanker Tuesday could serve an inspiration to players to form and uphold more lasting community events.


Only the Devs actually get a vote to make a plaque or not. I can only encourage the Devs to give the idea due consideration. Unless the coding is prohibitive, there really is no downside.

How about being able to promote/demote characters who are offline?
Can the Superleader do that? Please?

It a day late for April Fools, and the same one as last year.