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As a support toon I spend a lot of time bubbling teams that are not part of my main league team. I get to fire off an attack here and there, but truthfully I do not get the returns that others get in the trials because it's based on enemies eliminated as far as I can tell.
Which seems sort of something that they will have to tweak out.
In another super hero game that will go without mention, but is not on a console, and sucked a lot, healers or support would never get rewards because rewards be based on the number of things you damaged and not the contribution to the team.
That game is free to play now because it needed a mass overhaul because of such things. -
Okie. So Im running normal task forces and some of these trials.
There is something really odd happening on virtue. Really odd.
I actually was on a ITF, and watched two people mow the the content with judgement, and these are not AOE AT's.
People were upset with the lack of proliferation in the last issue. My question is do we need it anymore?
Technically the well powers almost seem as though they take away from others niches. Tanks can now, FF people, Heal and res people, AOE people, debuff people, summon pets and even hold enemies.
In fact all of the AT's out there are now technically able to do everything, although they can do their normal job the same, but they have everyone elses powers.
In comix when a toon gets that much power, usually they are killed off because technically the writers run out of things that they can throw at them.
Examples
Dark Pheonix (The main one that Spings to mind really)
Braniac (In his/her many incaranation)
Superman
Selene the Black Queen (Died a few times actually but she always comes back)
Morgan Le Fay
Zvesda Dynysta (Russian avengers enemy who when she used her powers threatened to destroy the universe all the time with each use)
Siena Blaze (Spelling might be off) who did the same thing as Zvesda Above...like she was a clone
There are tons more who have met the meat grinder of comix or depowered in some way because of this type of issue.
My concern is that when you offer so much power, that normal content becomes a happy sailboat ride with the occasional self inflicted suicide to allow for vengeance...so that the tank can res them with their new found rez power, it seems to cheapen part of the experience.
My concern is if CoX developers just put baby in the corner.
Really now, what can you throw at people? If one toon becomes godly enough does the development of the game need to change for them? Or does the game need to still focus on lowbies and newbies who don;t have that power.
Does all content need to shift?
I witnessed this in my ITF last evening.
LF2M. Need Tank and Judgment!
Need Judgment? Need it? Thats like yelling that you need heals when you have a sonic reser a bubbler and a TA on the same team. NEED it?
Im just saying, is this the path of the game now? -
Robots can love. I saw it sort of in Blade Runner? That other movie with that kid who sees dead people who played a robot? It's not a far out concept in comix. I mean, if robots can hate things, why can't they love things. Robocop loved his wife didn't he?
Marvel had many robots who fell in love. Vision fell in love with the Scarlet Witch, and she loved him too.
In Praetoria, robots were being programmed with the minds of Psi users which would make them somewhat human.
Maybe Nightstar has the mind of a Psi in her who happened to like lip stick?
In that sense Babage uses Psi powers? Psi powers coming from a mind of some type would sort of indicate that he must be able to tap into the minds of others with his own mind resulting in the damage he causes.
It also says in a load screen somewhere.
Praetorian Clockworks have a weakness that betrays their origin? Could it be love? Does love betray their origin?
Is love...maybe the weakness of all of us deep down inside?
*Checks the careing meter*
Yup...It's love.
LOVE!
It's one to grow on. -
Quote:Thats what I have been working on. Id like to see some changes though to the actual design of it.The League frame when displaying the entire league is made to benefit two types of players: the league leader (who can use it to identify ATs, switch people around and tell who is in trouble) and people with single target heals (who can use it to easily spot a dropping life bar).
For people with single target shield type powers the best option is to ditch the large screen and set up a focus tab where you can monitor buff status on those characters that really need it.
Just my $0.02. -
Quote:I usualy only play support. I don't know why, but they appeal to me a great deal so Im working on my support toons as well.One would think by now that the power of a team saturated with force multiplication would be well known, what with Repeat Offenders and all. As for me, I'm bringing my support ATs to raids, and saving progression on my solo-capables for the presumably forthcoming solo and small team progression alternatives. I hope this way of thinking catches on.
I think my main concern with Lambda is that while I know my shields work darn good and I can offer that type of support, the teaming window is really clunky to me. I am good with visual cues though so I can definately bubble people up quite nicely.
I think my issue with that particular trial is the running around aspect. I mean, people see the bright green arrows on their main team and follow theleader. It's instictive because of the game we have learned. Thus I fall into the trap of seeing someone in my team dropping and want to assist, especially in the large rooms in the second part. then I find myself alone in a room with people (Usually from my team) and a crapload of heavy hitting enemies.
Sure thats generally my fault, but I also and others also find the League screen to be extremely odd. -
Quote:I just have not honestly had much opportunity. Admittedly, if someone offers me a stop on a TF Id rather do them because I do find them more enjoyable, but Im not ruling out the fun factor of the Trials. Especially BAF because I can't really say at this point.Try running a BAF, it's not quite as hard as Lambda, and you probably won't faceplant as much. I haven't failed one of those yet.
Assuming that because one isn't fun that the other isn't either is just.....I dunno.
It's like saying I hate apples without ever eating one. -
Quote:Judgment is in my oppinion the one thing that makes people feel slighted the most. Not me so much, but it does take away from the "specialness" of the AOE crowd. It does not replace them, but Im beginning to think most of the Powers offered by the incarnate system just remove uniqueness from other AT's.I think the concern is that they're seeing Incarnates as ADVANCEMENT, and therefore, they're feeling locked out of advancement. PvP is its own entity. Noncrafters can buy SO's. If you want to be at the 'top of the game,' you gotta do the incarnates.
If they'd made ALL the incarnate powers be exclusively used ONLY in incarnate content, they wouldn't have much of a complaint, but because the incarnate powers affects their normal PvE game to some degree, those that don't like it feel slighted.
Or so I have noticed. The general idea I think is to just have everyone be able to mimic everyone elses stuff, or their cool toys so that when interviewed the devs can say that the incarnate trials means "Not having to wait for a balanced team as all AT combinations can participate"
Thats because everyone can do everyones bag of tricks now. -
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I did them. I think I have done them 3 times. Well Lambda, but truthfully never have run the other. I really don't want to run them again. Sure the rewards are shiny, but I don't find them fun.
My build is fine, and enjoyable, but faceplanting every 5 seconds is boring to me. Not because I suck, but because pretty much everyone seems to faceplant all the time. Blasters, Scrappers, Controllers, defenders, anything thats not a tank really.
I litterally need to fly around, bubble everyone and then just Personal Forcefield myself the entire battle. Otherwise Im pretty dead. -
After doing these a few times. Well, I have conceded that these trials are AT driven.
These are not niche trials...they are DPS/Tank and Healing jobs.
I stopped finding it a[[ealing when I relized that there is not place for me in these trials.
Im leveling up something else in order to participate, but my much beloved Grav/FF/Psi offers nothing. And though there is nothing wrong with her, I just realize that what makes her special does not occure in a league format.
Sure I can bubble, but they are tissue -
I see no reason to quit the game. People "NEED" to remember that this is new content, and as such there will be things to work out, and people who love the trials will do them and that the original content is still available in the fashion it always was.
Now I sort of rage quit..not really, but I did leave when AE entertainment came in because for about a month or so the chance to get on a team was replaced by farms and it seemed to crawl.
Right now the servers are populated with 50's, because the trials are new, and teaming can be a litte sticky right now because people are doing the new content.
The same was said about Praet when it arrived and people felt that the original content was being neglected and it was harder to get sewer teams etc. But that didn't last, and I imagine this wont either.
While, League is a challenge for me, because Im a bubbler controller, and really feel that I serve absolutely no purpose on the Lambda trial, considdering I can't hold anything, or worse, my shields seem to do nothing at all, leaving me as just a filler for the League. It sort of makes me feel lack lustre about the league content.
Thats not a statement of adaptability on my part. It's a statement that while I love the challenge, My creation, which is usually beneficial for a team just cannot do these trials, but can't find normal teams at the moment either.
Again. It's too early to tell if this is a mistake, but I have noticed that the content would appeal to some more than others based entirely on the AT type. Thats the part I find annoying. -
Quote:Well. Sort of. I mean I get mixed reviews a lot in my SG which is on the huge scale. We will all try it because we are all team players, but I would say that when it comes to this new content, people seem to be less on the fence.Hint: it's because they are actually playing the game and not just turning this issue into a soapbox on the forums.
It's like, people either really really love it, or people really really don't.
I can't give you figures for it, but I know there is a huge aspect of diversity, at least on Virtue where I play, and most of the time people are asking for people to join task forces and not Leagues.
In League defense though, it's not been in game long enough and with going rogue being released "not" that long ago, you still have folks who are not able to experience end game content, which could definately impact the overall love/hate relationship people have with it. -
Quote:You should be on everyones friend list!I have to stand with Moo here. This reading between the lines is... Wait a minute... What is that?
Can you see it? There's something there, I'm sure of it. Let's look a little closer.
There is! There is something there! What is that? It looks like text. Let's see...
Is that? No... You can't mean that... It's too small to read.
Oh, man, yes, it is. I can't believe this. That can't be right. It must be...
Oh, come on, now! Moo! I'm ashamed of you, man. I'm ashamed of you. I never thought to read between the lines of your posts, but who would have thought THAT was there?
Well, I am sickened and disgusted! -
Quote:I agree with you. It adds an epicness to the event it's self. Im more concened about the execution than the concept.I'm trying to tie in using Leagues for the new content and the difficulty of said content with the Dark Reign/Siege saga. We have to take down Tyrant, and to do that we have to smash up his Praetors. Eight people just isn't enough.
The heroes of Marvel had to take down Norman Osborn, and to do that they had to usurp him and those who follow him. Sending a few signature heroes wasn't enough.
My point: Regular 8 man teams usually won't be enough for this new content.
Again these things will change pvertime when mechanics get reviewed.
A grand scale battle wit multiple groups of heroes is amazing. Im dating myself here but Marvels Secret Wars was and will still be amazing, although arguably Executioners Song was up there.
Id like to see these grand displays, the problem is that the dynamic of the league feels less cohesive then the examples you are mentioning, due to game limitations, and the fact that it was is not orchestrated well. -
Quote:Ummmm...I don't think he was speaking of the aspect of Leagues. We all know that the Justice League and the Avengers have reservists etc beyond anything seen. And in comix huge multi-team/league aspects occure to gain readership. CoX is doing that with this content.MOO, please read the last few issues of both the Dark Reign and Siege arcs by Marvel Comics.
8 heroes weren't enough to stop Osborn. I myself love the new teaming system and I look forward to more League-intended content.
My understanding of what he suggested was that League content was not designed for CoX...Or I should say, that Cox, was not (And as of now, although new and will go through many changes) still not designed for it.
I didn't get that he does not understand the larger scale aspects of the comix. -
Quote:Actually, that comforts me a lot.You can coordinate a full group of players you've never even met before in the BAF no problem, unless they purposely don't want to listen. If that is the case, Ventrillo would not help.
I don't want you to ever worry about Ventrillo becoming something that is required. I was able to do all of WoW's original 40 man raids while deaf, and I'm positive that COH's raid-lites will be easier to coordinate.
I appreciate it, because I was able to do stuff on a large scale as well, and I dont want it to be a an issue with others, or myself. -
I didn't read anything here. Because I wanted to give my pure oppinion.
People are calling it a raid, and even though it has nothing to do with a PVP element or against other players of a different alignment/guild/faction etc, it takes into considderation larger formation battles that have been popular...and unpopular in other games.
It deal with mass numbers and as a result has the feel of something larger than the normal 8 man team and the enemies are amped up as to create a challenge on a higher level.
It feels like a raid because it lags like a raid.
It feels like a raid because it's chaos like many raids.
It feels like a raid because the rewards are beyond the norm.
Our raids...or TF's are at least story driven, which makes them stick with the feel of CoX...when you get a cut scene or a plot, making it Comic-Esque, but once those elements are finished, it's about using the amount of people you have to manage the mission objectives.
Now Ill read the rest to see how others think of it. -
These are new. These can be frustrating. Especially because it really does change the playstyle the game was designed around, and so people are going to have to take the time to learn it, and work with larger groups.
My concern with it is the League Window. It's not intuitive at all. It's almost designed to focus on a group of 8, that you are teamed with, and not generally the entire League.
For example, if you are joining your league and you are say, a group of controllers, the instict you have is to follow the brighter green arrows on the map, or those who you can target, and this is not effective at all.
It's new, so I imagine that there will be changes to something I find clunky, but thats my main complaint, is that your ability to control the team renders it's self sort of chaotic. The League Leader, if you are not direclty on his team is very difficult to work with and follow, as are his mates.
Now I cant use Ventrillo because of hearing impairment, but it generally almost seems like it has become neccessary at this earlier part of the League challenges to coordinate groups of 24 or even 16. I have been even declined to join a group who needed 4 people because I did not have access to a tool that I could not use anyways. Which reminds me of AOC and WoW (I have not played WoW though) where this non-game feature becomes almost a need.
When adding this type of content, which will be fun with more practice, there needs to be more attention to the interface that one uses to manage things. This is most noticeable with support toons of any type, but each team lead is having issues holding onto the structure of a team, mainly because the general League Window is sort of messy.
I am looking forward to learning more about the trials and playing them through, as I like the concept, but like anything new that is introduced, it will never be perfect from the start, and bugs, glitches, etc will eventually have to be worked through, whether by experience of players, but more than likely the intervention of development. -
Quote:One of the main reasons Cardiac gives you so much bang for your buck is that in general End isn't something you slot for primarily in a power, except in a few case.
So none or very little of the Cardiac bonus is lost to ED, unlike say a Recharge Alpha bonus where the powers you wanted to recharge were slotted for 95% recharge : unless you were going for the Very Rare ED eats a lot of the recharge bonus on you.
I agree.
I noticed that many of the powers my Defender, Controller and Blaster have available deal with Recharge, Damage, Range, Accuracy and (Hold/Imob/Stun etc)
The IO sets, even common or rare offer a lot, but End reduction is not as common, or as powerfull in some sets. I have noticed this in many of the desired controller effects, especially in group imobs.
Since I am FF as a secondary, I can find some IO's that generally improve defense sets to lower the endurance issues, however thats only because they are defense based sets usuable by other heavier endurance based AT's
Cardiac really is the bang for your buck.
Even as a blaster. The concept of Damage is awesome!!! But since Blasters do amazing damage, and damage can rip aggro off a tank like a shirt from a girls gone wild video, slotting the damage alpha is less appealing because I can Slot IO's for pure damage and allow Cardiac to do the rest. Or at least minimize.
Tank, Brutes depending on builds (Dark Armor really benefits) really benefit from cardiac, because IO's again offer what they need. Perhaps not at the level of an Alpha, but if you remove the concept of annoying end drain, then you can focus your build later on improving what already worked in the first place with this AT's.
Now...that being said, If I was playing a Ill/Something or Plant/Something, I really think Spiritual would be excellent in theory as you can focus on damage and or End redux while improving your recharge using the alpha assisting you in keeping your pets in play all the while increasing your secondary effects.
Even then, Cardiac would still benefit the later. But as far as controllers go, those two pop out in my head first when working with nerve. Mind is also in that field as well, except Mind still benefits from end reduction more than a recharge. -
I seem to think Cardiac is really the only Alpha. I mean...the "only".
Even though I considder myself a decent slotter, my Grav/FF/Psi (Used to be fire) gets buy further using Cardiac.
My defender, Emp/Psi who should be using Spiritual in my oppinion, can't solo without heavy end loss so Ill have to build one Cardiac and one Spiritual.
So far though. Cardiac seems overall best for any toon ever! It's the only Alpha that really benefits almost every AT.
Others may disagree, but if you are Ioing, and slotting etc, Cardiac allows for more possibilites period when it comes to becoming more inventive with slotting.
On your build, it is your best option. -
Wow. Wentworths was on fire! My Auctions!!!!
Ok. We definately all need to protect the world now! A world without shopping is not a world I can live in.
Good Trailer
Oh by the way, I was watching Electric Playground and they had a segment on CoX. It was well done. -
Quote:Yes...yes it is. Definately...quite enoyable!It's just so satisfying seeing all those tesla cages pop up on your enemies when you least expect it.
Plus it makes the elec toons feel less special. Muhahahahaha.
Also. When tossing a Urinal (Through propel of course) it funny watching a tesla cage appear.
"I have struck at thee with my magic electric urin collection device"!
It's pure win!
:Edit
Elec Soiled Matress, and Couch also are amusing. Fork lifts...well...thats also WIN! -
It's funny that this did not go furthat than it should have. Not because it is spectacular as a topic, but because I found the information valuable.
I always run dispursion bubble. Sleeps hit me...when they get off, and a simple sleep is very Kryptonite to me.
Knowing how to defend your controller or defender during those moments seems...well...important to share.
Unless of course you are one of those people who thinks they dont need those types and then rage when the "Healer" or buffer can't do anything to help them.
Either way. To pose the question that the OP had. How can support best serve a team, during TF's or even reg missions?
Seriously...preople who are new to an AT will benifit from this. Blasters, Defenders, Corrs, Doms and Controllers all face this issue.
Most suggestions have been good, but surely there are other techniques that would offer more protection or even offer more stability to these toons.
Id write a guide...but it would be my oppinion, and I feel that if I spend the time doing it, that the feedback of players would help me make a beginners guide to control defense...and defenders...As I sort of feel they suffer from the same lot in life. -
I did decide to go Cardiac. Mainly because running Manuevers, Dispursion bubble, and Fire Armor were really taxing me out. Now I can safely toggle and be happy. I specced out of tuff and Weave only because I am FF and well my defenses are pretty solid on it's own.
However Cardiac allows me to spam more attacks and such, which I find really helpfull considdering my controls are solid, it allows me to focus on my offense more, not just relying on my defense. Which I am enjoying. I feel better than a Dom now! -
Quote:I don't think that was his point. I think his point was that sometimes holds don't land, and controllers can get mezzed pretty easy if not prepared, as can defenders, and all squishy types.Since when are AE farms "The game"?
AE farms are an aberration that was never intended to exist in the game, it is not even CLOSE to being "the game".
Play your Controller like a Controller and not like a mobile damage aura and maybe you'll have better luck.
It falls to you to adapt to how the game changes over the years. Expecting the game to adapt to your preferred way of playing is (for lack of a better description) bat guano stupid.
Telling him that he has to adapt is all well and good, and I mean no offense to you in the least, but your not providing options for adaptability other than mezz the mezzer or change your game play does not really remedy the fact that he is A) being mezzed, or B) providing a solution to avoid it.
Sure he mentioned farming which is not a great aspect of the game, but it's frequent enough occurence that it should go with a mention, that AE or Portal farms are popular in some cases.
We should be looking at prevention, and while all toons have to adapt, just mentioning adapting without giving options or ideas, really wont "PREVENT" this type of thread from starting up again.