New_Dark_Age

Originally Posted by Hopeling

Yes, precisely. The "choose one but not both" mechanic already exists in-game with certain VEAT powers (Crabs can choose between the backpack version or the rifle version of Venom Grenade; Night Widows can choose Build Up or Follow Up but not both), and power sets of nonstandard size also already exist on all the EATs. It would be new to put this on a "normal" primary power set, but the mechanic would not be new, and thus presumably not terribly difficult, although the Standard Code Rant applies as always.

Originally Posted by Hopeling

This would be a nice change. If it's too large of a change for the cottage rule to allow, a "take only one of these" choice like the Crab venom grenades would be nice too.

Originally Posted by Blondeshell

Earlier this morning, someone on a global channel was asking about certain enhancements and whether they would be effective. This eventually devolved into a 45-minute argument about the role of a Tanker and the benefits of having taunt, which he was against. Coming to this forum to share the story, I was amused to find this thread already discussing the role of a Tanker. I suppose parts of this could be applicable for the Rude Tells thread, but it'll probably be better appreciated here.

(Note: I suppose we all should have been tipped off at the very beginning that this was not going to go well, when he thought that Gaussians was specifically for "fire" powers...)

Cast of Characters
Tanker? - Main antagonist
CP X - Channel People 1-5
Me

Tanker?: can i use this for energy mastery....focused accuracy [Power:Crafted Gaussians Synchronized FireControl E.Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control: To Hit Buff/Endurance Reduction.50]
CP 1: no
CP 1: wait yes sry tired
Tanker?: no bs right...you are telling me straight
CP 1: u can use it
CP 1: u can use it
Tanker?: im a tanker...with no fire powers..is it still good
CP 1: yes, it is a huge end drain but it will bring the acc of ur attacks
Tanker?: s--- ...endurance is something i need...maybe i shouldnt
CP 1: i would use phyical perfection
CP 1: and converse power
Tanker?: what other to hit buff would you suggest......
CP 1: what attack set r u
Tanker?: batle ax
CP 1: put the guassin's in build up
Tanker?: dont have build up or taunt
CP 1: and u r a tank?
Tanker?: they drain endurance
Tanker?: yup
CP 1: every tank should have taunt
Tanker?: why...i just go in and smash them anyway
CP 1: cause a tank inst always the dmg dealer on a team
CP 1: tanks r made to take dmg and hold aggro
CP 2: CP 1 is right. EVERY tank should have taunt. It's your job. Make sure everything is beating on you, and nobody else. Not damage dealing.
Tanker?: but without taunt sloted i have room for another hit power
CP 1: after u r fully slotted u will not need another accuarcy power to boost ur to hit
CP 2: If you want to be a damage dealer, go brute or scrapper.
CP 1: agreed
CP 3: Dark Armor tanks though what about them
CP 1: they r s---
CP 3: actually they're pretty fun and decent
Tanker?: with the agro i have ...everyone does attack me
CP 1: unless u r fighting psionic
CP 3: or s/l or energy
CP 1: but taunt is made to make sure that u have the aggro even with ppl who r dealing more dmg than u
CP 3: [Gauntlet]
CP 1: which helps
CP 1: but i acan pull aggro from a tank than doesnt have taunt with a corr or a blaster
Tanker?: im willpower battle ax....im pretty powerful...and i take care of the poeple i team with....for the most part... the focus does stay on me
CP 1: wanna prove it?
Tanker?: now im not fully enhanced yet big guy but we can go into a farm and i can show ya
CP 1: let me switching
Me: Playing a tank without taunt should only be done if you're trying to accomplish some specific concept.
Tanker?: besides im on justice
CP 3: my concept is griefing
CP 1: i can come there
Me: It'd be like a pet-less Mastermind or a "pure" Empathy healz0r.
CP 1: back on justice
Tanker?: look...i have a tank on triumph..who has taunt...i dont like the power...i feel it's a waste of space....what i have sloted works well for me and the teams i play on....there is no rule saying a tank needs taunt...it's a waste of a slot..in my own opinion
CP 3: there is a rule though it's just understood
CP 2: Going for a damage dealing tank is just doing no roles well. Crap damage, and no aggro focus.
Tanker?: a slot that can be used for a nother hit power...or a defence power
Me: Yes, it's going against what the AT is designed to do, which is gain and maintain aggro
Me: But, you're welcome to play your character however you wish
Tanker?: so what you are saying is a tank is a punching bag....f-that noise...i wanna bang stuff up
CP 2: It's like trying to play a dominator as a blaster.
CP 3: then play a brute
CP 2: Or a scrapper.
CP 2: Tanks are punching bags.
Tanker?: i like tanks
CP 3: they're tanks, really
CP 1: but i can guarantee i can pull aggro from u with a different at not design to hold aggro and keep it from u
Tanker?: who cares about agro...is there a badge for it...can you sell it...can you convert it...no...
Me: It just helps keep your teammates alive...
CP 2: ...It keeps your team alive, and successful...
Tanker?: my teamates do stay alive
CP 3: I can sell aggro
CP 1: no but one day it will get u and ur teammates killed
Tanker?: bulloks
CP 4: There is a "Damage Taken" badge group so technically YES
Tanker?: i have that one
CP 2: Without taunt, that Cimeroran boss runs over to your empath which is keeping you alive, and 2 shots her, then you die. Aggro did that.
Me: all seven of them?
Tanker?: it's not for aggro..so no
CP 4: then why did you ask such a silly question if you already knew the answer?
Tanker?: lol
CP 1: taunt is there for one reason and 1 reason only, to hold, maintain, and manipulate aggro, without u r nothing more than a scrapper thats a like harder to kill
CP 1: little*
CP 2: Well, I guess it's fine if you think that taunt is worthless...You're just on my list of tanks I won't run any TFs with.
Tanker?: im not just gonna stand arround and call a mob to me and just do alittle damage......when they do gather i knock um on thier a----...if some slip away thats fine..but the majority of them stay on me
Me: obviously, you won't like be taunting things if you solo all the time, but it's virtually indispensable in high level groups
Me: *likely be
CP 1: and the ones that slipp away could kill part of ur team cause u cant get their aggro
Tanker?: i said only a few slip by...i always go for the strongest guys first
CP 1: and u just dont stand there and call the mob to u, u go to the group and taunt and let the team kill most of the mob
Tanker?: look...you got a toon on justice
CP 3: I think it would be best if we made a big deal about it
CP 1: it doesnt always take the strongest mo to kill someone
CP 4: rather have you go for the most dangerous -- not always the same

(Two minutes later)

CP 3: are we done?
Tanker?: look man f-taunt...it's a waste...ask anyone ive ever teamed with......i dont need it, dont want it, and dont care for the power....if im the only tank, i take care of my team
CP 3: guess we're not done
CP 1: its ur choice, i will just never team and believe a tank without taunt has a retarded player behind the wheel
CP 1: i am tired of talking about this and so GN [Channel]
CP 5: later
Me: cya
CP 4: and Tanks like you are the reason why I play my Corr, put Twilight Grasp on auto and stand next to Fluffy
CP 2: Goodnight CP 1 aka "voice of reason"
Tanker?: you guys think just because i dont have taunt, im not a good player....f--- taunt and f--- you CP 1..im not retarded i have ceribal palsey...lol.....
CP 3: This is gold
Me: you mean "cerebral palsy"?
Tanker?: knowone sayed i was gude spellar
CP 3: is it ataxic?
CP 5: well Tanker? that is a form of retardness
Tanker?: bottom line is i take care of the team im on when i team...taunt is not needed by me
CP 3: is your team ataxic?
CP 5: and damn go smoke a fter
CP 5: fatty
Tanker?: besides without it ...it keeps my team on thier toes
CP 4: "not needed by you" and "beneficial to the team" are two different things
CP 3: or on their faces
CP 4: The hospitals do have cute nurses now at least
CP 5: if u dont want to tank play a brute
Tanker?: belive what you want...ive never had a team fail a mission because we all died
CP 3: never?
Tanker?: never
CP 3: ever run a UGT or TPN
CP 5: lol
CP 5: never say never
Me: or STF or ITF
Tanker?: teamates fall..as in every team..no i haven't yet like i said just started enhanceing this toon
CP 3: how do you tank av's
Tanker?: i go in and kick his a--...
Me: lol
CP 3: I bet ya do
CP 2: Do you...Just run sewers...Like, all the time?
CP 5: avs in ae dont count u know
CP 4: poor indicator about tanking an AV -- I Tanked Romy in the last mission with a Stalker (the other 7 characters were all Corrs)
Tanker?: no buddy...sewers are for wussies...i built this toon from the ground up
Me: meaning you levelled him starting from one?
Tanker?: play all the missions im given, kick all the a-- that is requiered of me
Me: that's how I've done all of mine, too...
CP 3: so you skipped sewers then
Me: and AE?
CP 3: from the ground up?
Tanker?: did the sewr mission twice for the badges only...not to lev. and no...i take all my toons through the tutorial
CP 3: I need the tutorial that many times too
Me: yep, I start all of my characters from level one and go from there. it's the only way to go!!1
CP 3: so do you ever run any itrials where you tank
Me: the tutorial only gets you to level 2...
CP 3: or do you just not tank during itrials
CP 4: you know that you get a free level if you press alt+f4?
Tanker?: im not some free to play player...some noob...just one so far with this toon...and only twice on the other
Tanker?: yeah ok...har, har, har, de har, har!
CP 3:: so 3 itrials total
Tanker?: yeup...nothing wrong woth that is there oh CoH god that you are
Me: just as a point of reference, how long have you been playing, Tanker??
CP 3: at least a week
Tanker?: since 2008 then i recently got an account myself
CP 3: ever tank for the STF?
Tanker?: yeah just started yesturday
Tanker?: dont know what that is
CP 3: good, good
Me: then, no
Me: you should try it sometime, the Statesman Task Force in Independence Port
Tanker?: what is it..maybe i have
CP 3: you can probably tank lord recluse with just your axe and your willpower, I'd go for it
Tanker?: oh yeah ive done that with this toon...pieace of cake
Me: fruit cake?
Tanker?: funny..i gues tuant would make a HUGE difference there




[Tell] CP 3: it's such a silly argument
[Tell] CP 3: why would you not take taunt
[Tell] CP 3: "It's okay I'm battle axe guys"

Originally Posted by Bosstone

Yeup, depends on the character. I can't see Titan Weapons on anything BUT a Brute, really, and I love it. Meanwhile, I recently rolled a Broadsword/Shield Scrapper, both because Shield is better on Scrappers and because it's a concept that calls for controlled, consistent damage.

As for Brutes being frail...I'm still leveling my TW/EA Brute and cruising at 0x5 without any problems (except against Arachnos, of course). I expect that to ramp up swiftly in the next few levels as I start filling out slots. I've also seen an Energy Aura Brute tank Reichsman and Romulus. More frail than Tankers, yes, but they're still sturdy enough to get the job done.

I do still like Tankers for pure survivability, though. What a good Tanker can live through is nothing short of impressive.

Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan

I enjoy PvP in this game and others but Im just a casual zone PvPer versus some of the real, head in the game mechanics, die hard types. Having said that, the real PvPers have been making suggestions to the devs for years and while I cant see the Dev's big picture/project assignments...it doesnt appear they have shown much, if any interest in improving the PvP aspect of CoX or even in the PvP community's opinions. I know, I know....like .01% of the game actually PvPs so why bother building on it? Ive heard it before and I got it.

People usually have a very negative view of any PvP community (and with good reason, they tend to attract a certain type of player...not sure if its the immature, elitists or just general aholes) but there are a lot of solid/mature players that PvP who have documented issues, problems and overall gaming inconsistencies and spoken to the Devs about these items. You can find posts that have been stickied in the PvP section going back 5-6 years and even with that, not much has been done to address PvP.

So just like many people get tired of trying to help someone who doesnt seem interested in improving themselves, many of the real PvPers have given up with trying to make things better here and most dont even play the game anymore.

I applaud you for trying to get something going with this post, but others before you have done the same for years with minimum results.
Basically what Lothic said, "dont get your hopes up".
It is what it is.

Originally Posted by Model 75

Yes, PVP needs fixing, I know that. That needs doing first.

That said, for someone not "heavily" interested in PVP, a certain new game (from long ago and far, far away) has gotten me PVPing (yes, on a PVE server.)

They've got "warzone scenarios" that I think COH should take a look at. Some of these have probably been suggested before, but I think that other game is doing something very right with these. Their plusses:

1. Focused.

There's definite reasons to be fighting - defend/attack something to make your way through a ship, or "huttball" (sort of a reverse capture-the-flag,) or taking over turrets to attack your enemy's base and keep them from coming in.

2. Timed

There's no "This could take hours of back and forth" - you've got a time limit to finish the "game" or to complete the objective.

3. Auto-teamed (and fairly even)

You just queue up and, when it's ready, it tells you and asks you to accept or cancel. Which we have now in the LFG queue, so this should be (in theory) usable. But the warzone will cancel if there are too few people on a side.

4. Balanced.

Yeah. This is the problem, I'm told, with what happened to PVP here. Maybe just undoing that would help, I don't know, but even with the mix of classes there nobody seems to feel useless or underpowered, even if they're just running a level 10.

This would probably be the hardest thing here, still.

5. Rewarding.

We get rewards in PVP here, sure - and they need looking at, from what it sounds like. There, I'm guaranteed something just for participating (money, really, with some chances on stims (think enhancements/inspirations) or crafting components.


I think COH could take the best of what they show there and integrate it with a distinct COH flare here. Having goals (and a specific "This will only take 15 minutes, and you will get something out of it") would probably get more people interested in PVPing here that aren't doing so now thanks to empty zones, the gulf between heavily IO'd and new characters, etc.

Originally Posted by Hyperstrike

It could be the greatest movie in the history of motion picture and I wouldn't go to see it.

Let's just say that I find no reason to renumerate Tom Cruise for any of his whack-job antics of the past decade or so. The only way I'll see him in a film again is accidentally.

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

I know so as do many others that try to keep up with what's going on in Congress, etc.

That's about as far as I'll go in this thread w/out adding to the trolling, ignorance and sexism floating around here.

Good day, sir.

Originally Posted by Tenzhi

And you much prefer the hard Navy SEALs. I see.

Originally Posted by Vox Populi

Originally Posted by ebon3

Indeed, I never tire of watching Master & Commander.

Originally Posted by 2short2care

OMG I am a woman and I can't do SEAL training because it's sooo hard. :P That's ok I'll just give birth, that isn't hard at all no siree. I gave birth without any medication I would love to see any man do that.

Originally Posted by Tenzhi

SEAL training is rough. As I recall, most of the male candidates who apply fail. It is, of course, illegal for women to apply at this time. If/when that law ever goes away I heartily concur that any woman who could make it through the process would be exceedingly rare.

But that has little to do with being unable to accept it happening fictionally.



As much as some people lacking the wherewithal to avoid using offensive speech shows the nature of theirs, hm?

Originally Posted by starphoenix

Moderation is a fact of life in all forms of medias. After all, we won't see an image that belongs in Playboy in a kid's TV show. Each forum like all media is set with a specific theme in mind and things that don't apply to that theme is subject to moderation since forums follow the rules they have set out and we agree to follow them when we register.

If the speech is something offensive, then it is a matter of the moderators to determine if it is in bad taste or offensive to the theme of the forums.

Freedom of Speech is important, but when it conflicts with other people's freedom to happiness, then moderation is necessary. After all, 500 lb men in speedos or writings that make people dumber by reading it should be moderated for the good of everyone else. One person's freedom is not more important than everyone elses if that person's freedom tramples on everyone else's freedom.

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

it hardly does that anymore in the face of giant stacks of money

Originally Posted by Dark_Respite

Irrational? That's it? Come on, I could have TOLD you I was irrational.

Oh, yeah, before I forget - was discussing this thread with the roommates over lunch. They wanted your take on BLACKHAWK DOWN (i.e., whether it sucks) - I couldn't remember if it had been mentioned in this thread or not. (BTW, they're both former Air Force, 10+ year vets.)

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

Originally Posted by Ironblade

And if you do get banned or moderated, are you going to start yelling about freedom of speech? This forum is a privately owned venue. Those things are irrelevant here.

Originally Posted by MentalMaden

As long as we are talking about Historical facts here, I'd like to point out to the OP that there were in fact free Blacks (both immigrants from the Carribean and freed slaves) in the south and even in South Carolina in 1775. No there weren't a lot but the concept that any person of color in 1775 was automatically a slave is inaccurate and factually wrong. Africans and African Americans fought on both sides of the Revolutionary War from all parts of the Colonies.

Originally Posted by Vox Populi

I noticed the Mods have done some editing in this thread. You missed some ugly stuff:



Better to just wipe the whole thing.

Originally Posted by Veritech

Or it's Christmas Eve and the mods are busy.