Nethergoat
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
So, how is that anyone else's fault? How about ruining my enjoyment of my RL life wallet, having to fork out for X number of packs instead of the one sum for the costume parts, i.e. THE ONLY THING I WANT OUT OF THE PACK.Quote:Originally Posted by Reppu
Because my fun, AKA opening packs, is worth more money than your fun, AKA buying the costume pieces upfront.
So, my fun has more value than your fun.
Indeed.
If you don't like the mechanism, don't participate.
I wasn't able to run the TFs so I did without that Roman stuff and the Vanguard stuff.
But as I noted earlier, many complaints seem to have more to do with price than delivery system. "I don't want to potentially buy more packs than I think I should have to!" Ignoring the potential that you'll pay less than 'market price', while also gathering up a ton of other junk with solid in-game resale value. -
Ok, two more DIB runs and Dopplegangster is up to level 15.
It's a nice way to skip the low levels if you want- it's fast, but it's not hardcore PL fast. And you get to meet people and do a little teaming, although it's fairly hectic. The design is fun, and not too repetitive as long as you don't sit down with the intent of grinding to 20. It's given me two evenings of entertainment that happily resulted in quite a few more levels than I'd have gotten on my own.
The thugs are whatever- typical MM pets.
But /time...that I'm *really* enjoying. So far it seems kinda like a remix of Empathy with some terrific mitigation blended in. I've got a great debuff (Time Crawl), a weird DoT aura heal that seems about as good as aura heals usually are (Temporal Mending), a cool pbaoe debuff aura (Time's Juncture) that seems to be pretty effective and a really nice ally buff, (Temporal Selection) that juices their recharge, damage & regen- sort of a more offensive-minded Fortitude.
It keeps me interested in the fight, debuffing hard targets & buffing teammates while my dudes blaze away, taking occasional potshots with my pistols.
So far so good- we'll see how he fares when I take him out of the controlled environment of DIB and introduce him to the solo game. -
Quote:That is a pretty ridiculous situation that they should rectify.Originally Posted by Thanatrix
Well, some of what I liked best were some of the advanced archetypes. Widow and Mastermind in particular. With the current sale, it seemed a very good time to buy permanent access to them rather than the temporary (VIP) access that I have. This seems to not be allowed - anything I have a temporary (VIP) access to I cannot buy permanent access to. This pretty much makes me feel like I wasted my time and money buying VIP.
I am upset that in this instance, I as a VIP am being treated worse than a non-VIP by being barred from buying permanent access to these archetypes. -
Quote:A bit of anecdotal support:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
My rough estimate calculation goes like this:
Blaster with slotted health ~ 200% regen (178% with 1.95 slotting and no other bonuses). DP saturates at about +1500% regen (+1463 with 1.95 slotting).
All other things being equal, the DP saturated blaster can take 8.5x more damage over time (1700/200).
On top of that, the soft capped blaster is getting hit 8 times less often than the blaster with only 10% defense (50-10 / 50 - 45). That means the soft-capped DP saturated blaster can sustain about 68 times more damage than the one with slotted health and about 10% defense, or about 70x.
my range softcapped ar/dev can happily breeze through about anything in the game at +0/x6. He can go higher on both fairly easily as long as I cherry pick my opponents. Before I softcapped him he wouldn't have dreamed of attempting X6 anything, because he'd have been mezz'ed and face-planted by the first spawn he came across.
And he had nothing in the way of extra regen, certainly nothing like Drain Psyche. If he did....wowzers. -
OMG I love that owl pic.
also WHOOHOO, FREE HAT! -
Quote:the point was raised in another thread that it's ten slots PER CHARACTER.Originally Posted by eth_Nargy
15 bucks is still ridiculous for 10 more enhancement slots.
So for someone like me with a multitude of alts the price point starts making sense. -
Quote:As far as preferring costume junk to be sold via a store and only via a store, Snowy probably is in the majority. Every time they've taken a step away from the Free Stuff Added to the Tailor paradigm there's been a veritable tsunami of upset.Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.
I was wondering why you were referencing a poster you (apparently) don't agree with.
I was asking if you thought their opinion was the majority opinion - in which case your comments about few people being like SG are hard to parse - or if you thought their opinion wasn't - in which case, why you thought it would carry any weight is hard to parse.
But I don't think adding them now, when they've already done their work selling super packs, is a majority attitude. Even if it were it would be a counterproductive decision, from a hey, here's Series Two of our super packs, buy up! perspective.
It undermines my enjoyment of the 'mini game', so to speak.Quote:Why is that, when you could almost certainly get it cheaper through the SuperPacks?
Similarly, I find my interest in farming has evaporated since they started selling IO sets via the store.
Objectively it's still an efficient activity, but my interest has been fatally undermined.
I don't want a store option period, but a store option with an appropriately high pricetag would at least not enrage me.Quote:This is why I seem confused - if you wouldn't accept any price point for a store option, why are you concerned with saying you don't want a specific price point?
The difference is between having me actively angry about the decision and having me roll my eyes at the whiners once again getting their way and henceforth ignoring the entire system.
The value of this to anyone besides myself I leave to your discretion.
I am opposed to the whole idea of a store option, yes.Quote:You are opposed to that price point, and twice that price point, and twice that price point, too, yes?
You are opposed to all price points of any sort, so having a discussion about them makes no sense, yes?
The price point would determine my level of disgust, but would not make me embrace the idea.
Unsurprising, as they want to sell Super Pack Series 2 and 3 and on and on into the future.Quote:At present, the Devs apparently agree with you.
Hey, that's why I'm here.Quote:Thank you for your time - you've written a lot in response to me, and I appreciate what you had to say, regardless of our level of agreement.
Kudos for enduring the snark with good humor and aplomb. =) -
Quote:Yah, with me it isn't a content thing, it's an "I get so frustrated with the AT I end up deleting them" thing. =POriginally Posted by dugfromthearth
it is tempting for me to dfb to 22 when I slot IO's and can really do stuff.
But I am finding the content yellowside is good enough that I'm not worried about leveling.
I haven't burned out on the new lowbie stuff yet, I just want to give this character a decent chance at surviving.
I was puttering along quite happily with my Freemium account (which wasn't exactly free as I ended up dropping ~$60 on the Paragon Market, which is likely the idea behind the whole system) when lo, a benevolent stranger gifted me with a 6 month timecode. So yeah, I'm a VIP again and likely to remain one as I reacted to regaining access to my full supply of character slots like a dehydrated man staggering through the desert and then plunging headfirst into a cool, tree-fringed oasisQuote:Originally Posted by Pauper
Nethergoat,
Have you done the switch to VIP that you mentioned in your first post, or have you found that 'freemium' status is good enough, given the veteran awards you built up during your previous play?
I've been following the thread, but it's gotten pretty long -- I don't recall a specific moment where you transitioned to a new account type, but I may well have forgotten.
But Freemium status provides a surprisingly full-featured game experience, at least for high tier vets. The main limitations are incarnate stuff (which I can take or leave and didn't really miss) and slots (which drove me crazy and I was really happy to get back.
I did create an entirely new account, unconnected to my 'real' one, with the intent of getting the full 'new player' experience minus all my vet perks, but my limited game time combined with my terrible case of alt-itis has derailed progress on that front.
I did make a character, so it's still a possibility, however remote. -
I've avoided the alt bug for a good while, so it was perhaps inevitable that during last night's commute home an idea hit me that demanded to be made:
Dopplegangster!
It is a quirk of fate that many of the better character concepts striking me are for masterminds, an AT I feel little affection for.
I'm fairly sure this one gestated in another forum thread where the subject of those ambushes that TOTALLY IGNORE your henchmen to beat up your poor Mastermind arose. There was a bit of cross-talk on various justifications for this (Arcanaville: Well, wouldn't you?). A while later I was thinking about a mastermind who was visually indistinguishable from his henchmen. And then on the drive home the name popped into my head.
Now in spite of their wide popularity I've never played /thugs, which is kinda odd.
I've played (and deleted) bots, ninjas, mercs & zombies. Wait, I didn't delete my mercs- I liked her concept too much, so I just moved her off to another server. And who knows, someday maybe they'll buff mercs. And I do currently have another zombie MM- came up with a terrific idea & costume and *had* to do it. I don't play him much because I don't want to get frustrated- he's level 15, and at his current rate of progress should hit 20 sometime around the 10th anniversary party.
But no thugs!
I actually had to hit the web for photo reference.
Decided to make him look like the buff thug in the wifebeater with the tattoos, and if he lives long enough he'll have alternate costumes for the various other members of the gang. Or, I could copy something like the Family Capo. Lots of ways to go here.
Anyway.
Made him, logged him in, and given my historic antipathy to the AT decided to just burn him up as high as I could on the DIB/DFB train to defuse the possibility of a 'Frustration Related Event'.
I went for /time as his secondary, mostly because I haven't played it and it looked fun. I love slows, and it seemed to have a lot of slows. /devices is the only one that would've been reasonably thematic, but I already have a few /devices including my mercs MM.
So, Time it was!
Ran two DIBs with some higher level guys & hit level 10.
Not much feel for the character yet. I do really like the 'slow aura', the DoT heal is a little weird, but handy with my henchmen, and the pistol attacks are pretty lame.
Going to get him up to his 20's then try playing the 'real' game.
My little market dalliance seems to be working, so it's time to start taking notes and screenshots. -
sometimes they change stuff, and if you've got the 'old' version or some sort of combination of elements that is not longer allowed it's declared "invalid"- they don't take it away, but you can't change that particular costume without losing it.
One of my oldest characters has pants with the Malaise pattern which was removed from the costume creator- he's still got the pants, but I can't change that costume without losing the pattern. -
Nothing against the quality of this movie, but I'm not interested in seeing a film I feel like I *just* watched.
It represents a sort of galloping creative bankruptcy I refuse to support. -
Quote:BAhah!Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
But now how will I know what day the freebies are released?
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amusing that the item I'd be most excited to buy is being given away free.
=D
I guess I'll pick up some more invention storage stuff- marketeers can never have enough! -
Quote:Because this is an internet forum?Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA
Do you think Snow Globe is typical of the community at large? If so, why oppose their viewpoint? If not, why bring them up at all?
That's what we do here.
Did I stutter? No? Then why are you confused?Quote:So - and perhaps you can understand why I am confused - you were earlier saying that a store option would be tolerable if it were priced high enough, and now you are saying it is impossible to price a store option high enough to be tolerable?
I don't want a store option, period.
If they insisted on a store option I would be less hostile to a price point reflecting the high end of what super pack buyers spent than the 'usual' market price. But it would still cost them my commerce on future super pack releases.
The price of the Elemental Order set is fluid, potentially differing for each buyer.Quote:And, if pricing the store option to the average level of SuperPack purchase would result in cries that it is overpriced... did that actually change the price? Or just give us the Real Numbers?
I wouldn't accept a price at the "average"- then you're shafting the people who spent more than that for their sets.
You don't "earn" super packs, you buy them.Quote:It has been my experience during previous incidents of costume availability increasing that there are a few individuals who complain about all of the 'work' they put into obtaining an item, and that it becoming generally available has ruined it for them. These people are usually laughed off by the general playerbase, not just some supposed philosophical upper crust.
That's just been my experience, of course.
The elemental order set isn't about 'work', it's about spending money.
I don't care that they added the Vanguard stuff and whatever else to the store- not having a life schedule that generally has space for 'raiding' I mostly ignored it, aside from grinding War Zone missions for enough merits to grab the katana for one of my older characters.
In game effort is an entirely different currency than $$$- all you've spent is time, when you'd presumably have been playing the game anyway. You just focused your attention on a certain area for a while.
Cash isn't like that.
If you're going to make a game prize available at a certain price point to one group of players, there's going to be trouble (one way or another) if another group of players is offered the same prize at a different price.
And when that price for the first group of players is a variable....well.
I feel the devs would be well served by leaving this lie. -
Quote:If you set the price where you'd need to set it to be fair to those who bought super packs (i/e at the high end of the 'unlucky' range), would you still feel the same?Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
NO!!!!!!!!!!!, Wanting a store option is wanting things to have a set price. Buyer pays the set price and then owns the item.
I wasn't speaking specifically about you B_I, but about the folk who want it in the store and don't seem to think it should cost any more than any other costume bundle.
I personally like it when stuff is random.Quote:This is an extremely simple concept with zero trickery about it. Item costs x, customer pays x, takes item and keeps it. I simply do not understand why so many people are defending bait and [potential] switch tactics so hard.
I like these packs for the same reason I like running the occasional farm map- it's fun to see what you get.
And in a game where they've made nearly everything available in the shop, this is one retail outlet where I get to indulge my affection for random rewards. -
Quote:thank you for sparing me endless complaints from people who don't understand time zones.Originally Posted by Hit Streak
[ We're reintroducing the Freedom Friday feature for a limited time, and renaming it to Freedom Freebies!
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Quote:you must be a real hoot at parties.Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
See, I don't think that's fair, because those people with 10% defense on their Blasters.. Or anyone playing ANY character with 10% global defense, is an unintelligent or uninformed player.
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Quote:And for an idea of how well the first option would work out, I give you MA missions with custom enemies. =POriginally Posted by Fulmens
There were two games, really: the tough guys and the not-so-tough guys. And the devs could either build something that would challenge the tough guys and slaughter everyone else faster than they could hit a green insp [literally] or build something that was trivial to the tough guys and balanced for everyone else.
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Quote:It would be a pointless effort on their part- raising the price enough to mollify those who'd already burned various amounts of points on superpacks would likely enrage those who currently want to buy the pack through the store.Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA
But presumably, you feel you're not typical of the playerbase, then, in your reaction to this, am I reading you right?
You'd tolerate it, but most people wouldn't?
Wanting a store option is basically wanting the costume pack at a discount.
If they were offered in the store at a suitable premium the characters we have here complaining about "gambling" would instead be complaining about price gouging.
See Snow Globe's generous offer to pay 400 points and not a jot more.
Clearly you are an enlightened soul and are entitled to look down on the rest of us with bemused tolerance- gratz!Quote:(Personally, I am for as much liberalization of non-combat stuff as possible - I want everyone to have the greatest possible opportunity to create the costume they wish, and I have never felt the slightest resentment at someone else getting something I have, or have had access to.) -
Quote:I've only been thinking on the costume stuff, but if they put that wolf in the store..........some folk who burned a couple hundred packs chasing it would go POSTAL.Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
It's exactly the same with the Super Packs, if the costume and/or wolf pet are sold independently there will be people who believe that they were cheated.
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fun: the market
fun: checking out other players cool characters
fun: mayhem missions -
Quote:Actually yes it does.Originally Posted by Snow Globe
Actually, no it doesn't.
Player psychology trumps semantic dissection of dev statements. -
Quote:Oh geez, I forgot about that kerfuffle.Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
This is largely what it comes down to. People HATE feeling like they got taken advantage of. Remember back when Going Rogue was coming out and it was revealed that people who had pre-ordered would not get the same goodies as people who bought it at the store (new costumes and a month of game time). Even though pre-ordering got you early access to Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning a lot of people were still pissed and demanded refunds.
That particular situation didn't bother me at all (dp! demons! wheeeeee!) but a lot of people felt ill used and completely freaked out about it. -
Quote:If they price it what it would take to "normally get them", then people can just buy packs, no?Originally Posted by Neuronia
I'm curious why you think this is so.
If they put it at a price point equal to the amount of Paragon Points it would take to get them normally (400-600) then isn't this a win-win?
The thing is, some people got a discount on this set- one guy said he got all the pieces in 10 packs. 15 isn't uncommon. It took me 30 +. I'm sure it took some folk more than that.
So if they want to sell these sets in the store, why should I buy any more packs?
I'll just wait around for it to hit the store and likely save myself some money.
Anyone can get the Order set- it's not rare, it's not difficult, it's just pricier on average and less deterministic than the sets on the market.Quote:Put another way...and not sure if this is an equal comparison, in that Magic card game people compare the packs to, there are cards that are worth $300-$500 (the Black Lotus and Moxes) but most people that still play with those would be more than glad to see them reprinted just because they are SO rare that anyone wanting to play with them faces a huge barrier to entry.
You are an enlightened soul.Quote:Now, these items (Elemental Order) are not game-useful in the way purples are and those are in the store. I have the full Elemental Order on both accounts and really, if they wanted to make it available I wouldn't bat an eyelash since it puts more cash in the coffers and more people are happy about it...and this is from someone that has nearly ALL the costume temps as well from the cons.
Alas, far more folk are like me than like you. =P -
Quote:Because it's a bad idea that will piss many people off.Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA
Correct me if I am wrong, but when these were announced, the Dev team said that they had no plans at that time to release the costume pieces any other way.
Of course, almost every single other once-exclusive item is now available through multiple means, such as capes, auras, Alpha slots, etc. Why would this be different?
I'm philosophically against liberalizing availability of stuff, but I generally get why they do it- they make the calculation that the goodwill they'll earn will exceed the ire from those who previously 'bought' the item by whatever means.
In the case of many of the old gated costume bits the number of players to antagonize had likely dwindled to a handful by the time of the liberalization. Preorder helmets and the like, not a ton of people had them in the first place and not all of those were still playing. Also they were a 'perk', an extra bonus for signing up early, they weren't the whole show- not the case with the super packs.
A lot of players bought a lot of super packs in the recent past.
Put Elemental Order in the store anytime soon and brace for the firestorm.
What you see in this thread is skewed because the people who're happy with the status quo are mostly not posting. People *with* a complaint are much more likely to participate in these things than people without.Quote:I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's why I'm asking the question I'm asking. Most people appear to be saying something between "I'd be a little annoyed, depending on price point," and "I don't really care," but then turning around and saying that those guys over there would really be mad. I myself haven't seen more posts saying "I'd be really angry if they offered them," than I have "I'm really angry they aren't offering it."
Support it?Quote:Actually, if I remember correctly from Beta, several people who disliked the idea of the SuperPacks said they would prefer to buy the costume pieces, even if it cost more than the average rolling for them with the Packs.
So, you would support a high-price-point separate purchase system?
No.
I think the status quo is fine and don't see why an alternative should be supplied.
Tolerate it?
Sure, provided the convenience fee for avoiding the packs was high enough to offset the premium payed by pack buyers.
see above.Quote:So, you wouldn't support a high-price-point separate purchase system?