Nefarious_EU

I agree, phaseshift basically just is the "OMG RUNNNNN!!!" power in pvp, in PvE its uses are a bit limited i find

meh cant join thursdays... shame, ah well, good luck you guys

lets see...

times: weekdays after 7 pm BST except thursday and weekends
Server: prefer union
Sets: on union i'll be havin a fire/dark, otherwise im cool with anything, might try ar/kin.

Little warning im quite busy these days so sometimes available times might shift significantly..

i'd join, but if its on union dont really fancy makin a rad there, got a lvl 4 fire/dark corr there first i wanna lvl. If it's on defiant i got a 13 or so fire/rad there. I'd prefer union tho

perma enough to just phase for the time it's down iirc 20 secs downtime is max (tho im sure somebody'll correct me)

hm, tempted to do this.. wonder how they plan to do it especially with vills now being involved

oh noes, if srm and rooks show up we're sure to fail!!1! d000m!

PS, ill send a tell later today when im on

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its not animation time, its damage (brawl index). Animation time indeed is 1.5 secs. Seismic smash for instance does alot more damage than shatter..

[/ QUOTE ]Shatter can hit more than one target, no?

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In the same way headsplitter hits multiple targets.. possible, but hard midcombat. Thats why in my original post i stated there are more things to consider when picking a set rather than raw damage.

I do agree however that mace could do with a bit of love.

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The lack of end probs, even vs sappers comes mainly from rooted with the end drain resist i reckon. Also dont forget there is more to stone than granite. I prefer a tank that can hold his own w/o granite compared to one thats perma in it, but thats just my own opinion.

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I keep failing to see the logic behind this. Does it mather how someone perform outside granite if he choose to be perma, never dying and doing a great job tanking?

There nothing 'outside granite', the same penalties apply wether you are using granite or not (being -jump/-spd).

Imho, the OP made the minor mistake of asking recommended def/resist, but forgot to say for wich tank. Each tank rely on different aspects (fire and dark similair though), each have a different recommended res/def.


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Think you missed my point there. Alot of people think "i got granite, ergo i can tank", sure they may not die, but i would not necessarily class it as a "good". On top of that thinking stone only exists to give you granite.

As for the thing nothing outside of granite? If nothing means having psi def and no -dmg/-rech penalty.. then you are right. Outside of granite, stone seems to be more defense based. Hence why the original comment (and my reply on that comment) stated that def was more something for stone tanks. If it was said "def is something for granite tanks" I would prolly have agreed with the reply.

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OP:how do you maximise def and resistance?
Reply:More dmg more healing
Op:But I'm not interested in dmg or healing I want to maximise my defence.
Reply:So, More damg more healing
OP:At the moment I am purely interested in def and resistance
Reply:MORE DMG MORE HEALING

This is an overview of how this thread seems to have gone and personally I don't think it is a valid point considering the question and I certainly don't think those opinions where given with any real thought or consideration to the OP's feelings.

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If this is your view, i'm afraid youre missing the point most posters try to raise in this thread. I've been tryin to clarify in my previous 2 posts that hard numbers for res/def just arent enough. In regard with your interpretation "how do i maximise res/def?", your effective res/def IS maximised by having more rech and in a way by more dmg.

In my previous post I named the amount of res you should be lookin after is "enough to comfortably stay alive with alot of bad guys pounding on you and not your teammates". In effect this often means "have enough res to mitigate damage that will be healed back as soon as healing flames is recharged". This, in turn, can be achieved by either a) increasing res values and b) increasing rech values.

Optimal solution for this would be a combination in both. Focus too much on a) and youre screwed as soon as your opponent brings -res to the fight (like sonics). Focus too much on b) and youre screwed when youre hit by slows. So once more, to "maximise" your res/def, you need to focus on multiple aspects, including your build, in this case your partner's build and your playstyle.

If you go for maxed res/def numbers, this doesnt mean your EFFECTIVE resistance will be maxed. And I think, based on the OP's question, he's asking for the values of res/def that will maximise your effective res/def. However as stated, this depends on multiple things.

If you still have a problem grasping how rech and dmg can influence your res/def, think of this example. Please note i'll use extremes in this example to clarify. Say, we do a little arena fight. In one corner we put a perma-granite tank. Fully specced with IOs for max res and def, but didnt invest in extra rech or dmg. Here in the other corner we put your friendly neighbourhood ice/cold corrupter.

The fight starts, generally speaking, on pure damage terms the ice attacks from the corr should not be able to severely dent the tank, especially if he has rooted running for the +regen. However, look at the secondary effects of both ice/ and /cold: a fair bit of slow (along with other goodies ofc). Now the fight starts, they wail on each other a bit, good fun. The tank manages to fire off attacks on the corr, hurting him. Corr debuffs the tank. Now the tank has a prob cause with no rech, he cant hit the corr anymore. Tank starts to hurt cause the corr can keep attacking without any danger from the tank. Tank uses earth's embrace and gets back to full hp + a bit extra again. However with all the slows on him, it'll never be back on in time. So if the corr keeps it up, it might take a while, but in the end the tank will fall cause he has no way to heal back the damage done.

I know this is an extreme example, cause the tank generally had no chance to begin with. However, he would have lasted longer (which is the whole goal of tanks: last longer than them) if he had more rech so he could heal back the done damage. Or ofcourse, have more damage in his attacks so he could try to defeat the corr before he could debuff him to hell and back.

Same goes for fire tanks. You can maximize your res all you want, but dont forget the damage will still be done on you in the first place. So you cant let your survivability be based on your res and def values alone. So to come back to your original comment of other posters replying "MORE DMG MORE HEALING" I'd say a more correct interpretation would have been "more dmg, more healing resulting in a more effective use of your res/def".

If you (or anybody else ofc) DO think that tanking is a manner of pure res/def values, bring a tank with maxed values and i reckon can point out something in the toon that will boost survivability even more.

My apologies if this sounds too much as a rant, but felt the need to clarify the reasoning for most people posting comments like "get +rech" etc.

as for rom rezzing, he'll only rez with players being close. However close in his eyes means a few yrd away . However we did plant rom once with 3 nictus still alive and he didnt rez.

To cope with the stun, once he dies and im on my tank, i jump behind a wall or whatever. That way his rez-stun wont hit me and as soon as he rezzes i jump in and taunt while i wait for my team to become stun free again.

I'll try to do it over the weekend mate. Otherwise gimme a shout ingame through tell or on the bush or whatever if you need some advice.

Btw shen, i'd suggest dark/fire/nrg (like mine). You really want conserve power to be able to run all toggles. All dark toggles + tough + maybe cj really hurts your end. The one extra aoe from fire doesnt really matter. Especially seeing with combustion/firebreath/FSC you got enough aoe to plant groups of lt/minions, using GFS to take out any bosses left standing.

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I wouldn't say that to stone tanks. the numbers for defense and resistance I got from mine in granite armor was around 40% defense across everything but psi. Damage Resistance you'll easily cap at 95% smashing/lethal, everything but psi resistance is around 80-83%. Have not had any major endurance problems unless there's alot of sappers.

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The lack of end probs, even vs sappers comes mainly from rooted with the end drain resist i reckon. Also dont forget there is more to stone than granite. I prefer a tank that can hold his own w/o granite compared to one thats perma in it, but thats just my own opinion.

As for the points i raised bout your build and the reactions upon it.. my intention has never been to criticise your build in such a way to shove a certain playstyle down your throat. Fun is the most important thing indeed and i also make sub-optimal builds at time just for fun factor.

However, asking for res/def numbers without taking into consideration the ancillary factors (ie rest of build) is moot. The numbers you got with the current build are pretty decent. Most people here however try to help you boost your res/def levels even more by tweaks in the build and SUGGESTING you can use those tips to boost your numbers.

For the complete question "how much do i need" the best answer I suppose would be "enough to comfortably stay alive with alot of bad guys pounding on you and not your teammates". This is dependant on your complete build AND your playstyle though, so only you can judge that really. If you got no problems tanking and your team isnt getting aggro probs (seeing its your role to keep aggro), then you reached high enough lvls imo.

As for fire specifically, I wouldnt boost def there either. Fire is a res set, so you should focus on res (as you can boost that higher with fire already being a res set) rather than def. Also, def wont really make much of an impact unless you got factors higher than bout 20-25%. Weave therefore is a bit of a waste of a power seeing its quite end heavy and being a res set, it wont boost your survivability THAT much. On top of that, the leadership toggles are pretty endheavy as well. So take into consideration if its worth the end cost for you to run all those toggles for the marginal bonuses they offer to you as a fire tank.

Tough is the way to boost your survivability. Weave really isnt needed. Basically the res values you are aiming for is "cap on everything". Though obviously thats not possible, so make do with getting as close to it as you can. Do this by picking powers that boost res and set bonuses that boost res. Each time you got the choice of res or def, pick res. It's res that'll keep you alive in the long run on a fire tank. If you want def, just let your emp partner pick up powerboost and give you powerboosted fortitude .

If I forced a playstyle on you by offering general critique, I'm sorry. However tryin to clarify here that the hard numbers you are asking for dont really exist. Builds play a big role in that.

I think it'll be possible, but reckon you should try gettin siphon power. As you said, kin doesnt have res debuffs so your damage must come from +dmg, but that cant boost your PA, so ill/ and /kin dont have the best synergy when it comes to AVs. It is possible though seeing i've seen a friend soloing AVs on his ill/kin and he's only SOd. He has siphon power though. Seeing you can stack siphon power to get a nice +60% dmg (fairly easy to triple-stack it), adding fulcrum boosts that to +85% dmg. Make sure you use siphon power to also boost your phantasm's damage output. I thikn with the only effective weapon against AVs being +25% dmg from FS indeed wont cut it. Not to mention i find siphon power being an excellent debuff as well to stay alive.

Ofcourse, this wont be as easy as a secondary set for ill/ with one or more -res in it as that'll significantly boost the dmg output of PA. Also you can try putting the BU proc in PA. Got it on my ill/ff and it works like a charm with dmg output.

was the fluctuation in stealth your overall stealth or just the stealth offered by the IO?

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I believe the original question was how much Res and Def should I have. I may decide to post the "Please criticise my build" thread later this week. I hereby reserve the right to play how I want to play.

Thanks.

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Thing is, you cant just aim for hard figures of res/def and call yourself a good/bad tank. It's also dependent on your other powers and playstyle. Like as stated before, hasten improves rech, means healing flames is up more, means you need less res cause you can heal faster. The basic trick of tanking is getting the opponent killed before he can do enough damage to kill you. Not just thinking "i got this amount of def/res so i'll live".

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The WHirlwind was taken as a breather, coz if they are flying round the room, they are not hitting me

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I'm wondering however how after that, especially seeing youre teamed with a squishy support char, how easy it is to get all the aggro back when theyre scattered over the place.

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Surely you could change the descriptions to make it generic origin.

"Implants" by itself could be biotic/tech stuff under the skin, or it could be runic sigils branded into your flesh, or even a gland that you developed in your arm that makes your punch stronger.

Just needs the flavour text changed.

[EDIT] Damn my spelling sucks.

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yup, first power for instance could be "your implants cause your skin to be more resistant" or something.

For the idea, like it, though unless im seriously not payin attention i think theres a bit of a lack of res/def powers and the ones that ARE there seem a bit low value res/def.

From the looks of it, the res/def youre after is quite a bit like dark, which is a reason why it might not be used later as all the sets are quite unique. For instance inv is great s/l res, but lacks in elemental, while dark is good vs psi and dark, but lacks vs energy. I agree that psi res would make sense, but it might give too many psi-resistant sets. I'd say maybe good vs s/l/cold, moderate vs dark/psi/toxic and weaker vs nrg/fire. Dont know how that'll work vs most mobs though, weakness against fire and nrg might make him weak in general endgame content.

However this is just constructive comments as I'd like to see something like this, would be a nice fresh touch. So big /signed from me.

EDIT: Just thought of something, seeing its apparently possible to change the effects of a power based on origin (think of vet reward blackwand/nemesis staff where dmg is based on your origin). Maybe it's possible to change the resists based on origin. Tech origin would probably have metal plating etc in his body so would be more resistant to psi with 1 power but weak vs nrg (shortcircuit). A magic user however might have protective runes all over the body which would be far more useful for elemental damage (including nrg) but leave the hero/villain open for psionic assault (so lower psi res value). To clarify what i mean, take a power "protective coating" which has +res(fire/cold/nrg/dark/psi). For tech these might be:
fire: 25%
cold: 40%
nrg: 15%
dark: 30%
psi: 40%

compared to magic
fire 35%
cold 35%
nrg 35%
dark 25%
psi 15%

Ofcourse i dont know detailed info bout how the origin modifier on vet reward so dunno how it can be extrapolated for other powers. But an origin having more influence on your toon without making one severely "better" than the other would be nice.

now there's plannin comin on, i'll try to make it Can't write something down in stone cause the coming 2 months still, my plans got a tendency to change on the go. But for what its worth:

Global: @Stagefright
SG: Fallen Legends (leader btw if thats any useful info )

Toons:
- Dr Robotico: (currently) 48 bots/poison MM (ST rez, antidote, no TP)
- Seismic Smasher: 50 stone/stone brute (taunt, tp friend)
- Out Cold: 50 ice/cold corr (fully IOd, stimulant, frostwork)

And i might have my night widow to 50 by then, but dont count on it

Member of Hami channel - no

Also offerin my expertise in organizing/leading hami raids before if needed, tho I'm not up for fulltime organizing cause RL is already consuming enough time .

Looking down the list of powers, a few things strike me, well, odd. This is based on experience from my dark/fire farming tank and db/dark scrapper:

a) I take it you let rage work out the acc on most powers, still i dont think it'd go amiss slotting one acc on deathshroud.

b) srm's right, 2x imp + 3x [censored] is a nice slotting, i was goin for 4x imp first for +maxend, but currently end aint really a prob and thats with runnin dark embrace, murky cloud, obsidian shield, OG, deathshroud, tough, CJ and focussed acc. Kill stuff fast enough and you dont need the extra end as you aint usin more powers.

c) goin back to slotting, in PvE i found acro a bit overkill, got 3 kb res IOs slotted that protect me from practically everything. My shields therefore are 2x imp, 3x [censored], 1x kb IO

d) heal in dark regen? why..? Slot it mainly for acc/rech/end, the heal is good out of the box and imo doesnt need slotting, unless you plan to use it loads vs just 1 enemy ofcourse.

e) end reduc in CJ deffo isnt needed imo

f) I'm not entirely sure why you want cloak of darkness on a tank, the def is ok i suppose but hardly justifies the powerpick. Immob protect, well, CJ is offerin that as well. And stealth on a tank? meh.. ofcourse if you dont have anything better to pick, by all means pick it for the extra def.

g) and last but not least, i found cloak of fear a bit redundant if you plan to use OG, CoF and deathshroud at the same time. The ticks of the other 2 will just break the fear constantly. For the bonuses its nice ofc, but i'd suggest EITHER usin cof or OG+deathshroud. I therefore dont use cof, never felt need to either.

hope that's any help, please bare in mind im tired when writin this, i'll double check it again monday when im finally home again.

How do you reckon more ppl are playing at 17th? If you're going by the logic that dxp is coming, well as said before, during dxp people more rather do something that gives xp rather than spend a few hours in the hive/abyss with a risk of just wasting time. I know for sure i wont be doing a hami during dxp.

As for the plan, I suggest using both the search function here and at the US boards. Read bout succesful raids, read bout failed raids, make your own plan. If you dont know enough bout the game mechanics to make an own plan like that, i'd highly recommend letting somebody else organize it. I've organized a few oldstyle hami raids before (also before the clockwork hami routine), and I tell you hami aint something to think light of.

I'd say from the reactions here, postpone it to say, somewhere in august with a fully detailed plan posted. Long time ahead? Maybe. But it also gives people time to figure out if they got time, prepare themselves and gives you as organizer the chance to see whatever people can bring, make adjustments and draw up the final plan for that specific group of AT/sets. Can't expect to fully map a succeeded plan 1 on 1 without requiring specific sets in specific numbers, which is hard here on the EU servers.

Don't wanna hose down the attempt on a raid, but just trying to give you a headsup it aint like doing a PuG TF.

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Black Scorpion says that he/she could become a threat if he/she continues down the path they're going. He/she has cleaned 3 Arachnos bases in a row, if he/she continues to do that and starts moving on to even bigger things like higher ranked Arachnos then even Recluse's lieutenants, he/she will become a threat.

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Hence why it shouldnt be 45-50. By the time you reach 45 there is a fairly big chance you've had a little brawl with one of the patrons. Not to mention chances are even already there you had a fight with the big man himself. Therefore it would make more sense if it was 35-40 or 40-45 in the current setup. Even though adding a patron in that arc has alot of possibilities of screwing up the general storyline.

Imagine this, if you already beat up one of the patrons BEFORE becoming their servant, whats the use of picking them as a patron anyway? Would make more sense if you had a pick from wretch, barracudda, silver mantis or ice mistral there seeing they all seem to have their own agendas anyway. Well, not sayin the patrons dont, but its often a bit less obvious or immediately goin for the big bucks.

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Ah i have tried once again to make sum heroes and i have a Psi/Nrg Blaster lvl 12.. I would like to make this guy more of a PVP build wat Mastery wud u suggest for PVP? i'll admit my noobishness on this an open this up for advise from more experienced sources

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I'd say cold for even more slowage and hibern00b. Followed by force.

its not animation time, its damage (brawl index). Animation time indeed is 1.5 secs. Seismic smash for instance does alot more damage than shatter..

i might join if you actually come up with a detailed plan + requirements of ATs to read first. Dont forget only 50 ppl can participate in a raid. So "just bring whatever and we'll see whatever we'll do" imo is bound to fail.