Misaligned

Oddly enough, in most of the MMO's the crafted items are usually worth less than the sum of their parts. Which is silly. Not to mention the general cost of leveling that trade skill to the point where you can make the "valuable" things causes crafting to be a money sink in the end.

This is the first game I have played where that is usually not true. Which is also silly.

This.

I would estimate that PvP farmers provide most of the PvP IOs we have available. Personally I don't use them, but can you imagine the prices on some of these without farmers?

The actual only way to fix this is to increase the drop rate by about a factor of 100. Maybe more.

Increasing supply would lower the pressure on demand.

Simply getting mad at the people who are AFK farming solves nothing. Creating a way to punish the people who do AFK farm does nothing but raise the prices even more. Which is fine - I'm sitting on a bunch that could stand a price hike

I never said you did actually say "screwed over". What I said was:

To quote you:

And your precise use of semantics is in fact allowing people to assume they are getting screwed. Their words, not yours or mine. However, I will put this in a more "real world" scenario to show you exactly what I mean. The time spans below are more "drawn out" than our market, but the principal is the same.

Car Dealer sells his cars for $15,000

I go and I buy my brand new car from him for $15,000.

That same dealer has a sale, lowering his price to $12,000.

My friend goes and buys his brand new car for $12,000.

By your assertions, I in fact over-paid for my car by $3,000 because at some point in time the price was $3,000 less than what I paid.

This is not true. I bought a car at what I perceived to be a good value. My friend did not find the value the same, so he did not buy. Later, he found the value to be good for him, so he bought a car for $3,000 less than I did.

My friend had patience. This gave him the opportunity to purchase for less than me.

If my friend decides a month later that he doesn't like the car and sells it for $14,500 to someone, did that someone in fact lose out on $2,500 because they could have bought it a month ago for $12,000?

I once again stand behind the facts as I stated originally:

When the flipper bought the item he was the highest bidder. No one else was willing to pay what he was.
When the flipper sold the item he was the lowest seller. No one else wanted to list for lower than he was.

As close as it seem some times, these 2 points in time are in fact separate places in time and cannot be applied to your "could have" or "should have" mentality.

If there were years between the transactions, would you make the same assertions?


EDIT:

After review, I find my views and Smurphy's to be similar. I still find his application of his opinion to be slightly inflammatory based on the witch-hunting that occurs on this forum when anyone mentions flipping.

Get out of my... what was that niche again?

Have fun!

Not any of my niche's that I'm aware of.

And a gallon of gas used to be $1. Now its $3. Relevant? Not really. I still have to pay $3 for my gallon of gas. The fact that I used to pay $1 is meaningless.

As I see it, its semantics in a way that eludes to flippers somehow getting a better deal than everyone else.

It is factual that a flipper must be the highest bidder in order to purchase said item.

It is factual that a flipper must be the lowest seller in order to sell his item.

Debating what he paid for it vs what he sold it for and putting semantics on it leave people feeling that they're being screwed. The fact is, they're not. There is no special club for flippers that gives them access to items not available to the general public. They are under the same constraints as everyone else.

The only, and I mean the only, advantage the flipper has is patience. You can out bid a flipper by 1 inf and undersell him by that same 1 inf and you have "shut him down".

Showing that the flipper is screwing someone because he bought it for what someone was willing to sell it for, then turned around and sold it for what someone was willing to buy it for is just silly.

And I can state for a far that no flipper is buying these high demand recipes in bulk. At least not in the bulk that you believe is driving up prices.

Here's what happens "if" you try and do that (from personal, recent experience):

I find a niche. The niche looks good, so I bid on 2-3 recipes and make the enhancements. I sell the enhancements for a profit. I decide this is great, then bid on 10 of those recipes for the same price. They move, which i'm counting on, but people seeing that the last 5 sold are no longer 5 mil but 3 mil... start bidding 3 mil. The people listing for under 3 mil see that they sell fairly quickly at that level and jack the price to 4 mil (i wants mah money!). Eventually, the recipe goes up to say 7 mil.

Meanwhile, due to all of this activity on the recipe, the enhancement that *was* selling for 15 mil now drops to 12 - someone decided to make a buck and undercut my 13mil listings. Enough sell at 12 that it becomes the new "price" for this enhancement. I have a bunch of these things now - and I pull them and re-list for 8 to get them to sell.

A few start selling for 10 mil and the recipes are now up to 7 mil - mostly from people looking to list their items slightly above what the last 5 sold for. We have now reached a point where a previously under-valued recipe has come up to 7 mil and a "flipper" (most people here will prefer you call them crafters) need to list their enhancements at cost to get them to sell. Indeed, that's all they are worth now.

Crafters being in that market brought up the price of the recipe and brought down the price of the enhancement. If you're angry because you can no longer buy a recipe for less than vendored pricing, I suggest grief counseling or something else for your tragic loss.

Runt. I totally get this, but you should understand something (maybe you do already). Your SG ranking is based entirely on your prestige accumulated. This means that the ranking system favors the SGs and VGs that are full of farmers. Or the SGs that blindly recruit 250 people then demand they all run in SG mode.

Personally, I think this is about the dumbest way you can rate an SG in this game and frankly, when I see "Top 10 SG" I'm neither impressed or awed.

I do find it amusing that those at the top covet this spot so dearly. Its a poor measuring stick, but its the only one we have. If it were based on hours of participation in TFs or groups, it might be better. Though I'm sure people would find a way to cheap that as well.

I digress. The reason I am 100% behind this program is 2-fold. Inflation is killing the market for the newer players. Some find their way here and learn how to make billions. Most, like me when I started, looked at what my friends were saying I was buying and I was wondering how many years it would take me to save for it.

The second, and more important reason for me is somewhat malicious in nature. When I see someone thinking they're better than someone else (especially for a reason as silly as "we have the most prestige!") I feel an overwhelming urge to knock that person off their high horse. This project will do it in a way that will firmly and irrevocably prove to these "top" SGs that your top spot means nothing. It is the quality of your people that matters. This is a game. Made for having fun. Not measuring e-peens with very sadly designed rulers. Our taking #1 will not chance the "good" SGs full of great people one way or another. They will continue to play as always, and indeed, will most likely not even care that we took the #1 spot.

I hope this helps you understand at least my position on the whole Crazy 88's.

Irrelevant! We ALL know that flippers buy everything, then sell it ALL back and gouge-your-eyes out prices. Alc Silv is only this high because the "regime" has decided to take it and its brother, Alc Gold and drive the prices through the roof!

Flipping salvage is SO worth it!

If you can buy all of the product at 50k - then turn around and sell them ALL for 100k you're doubling your money!

I'll bet you could make a billion in a week this way! I wonder how many you'd have to sell a day...

Let's see - you buy for 50k. No fees. You sell for 100k - 10k in fees. So... 100k-10k (in fees) - 50k (original purchase) and you make 40k PER!!! FOR EVERY ONE!

If you want to make a billion in a week like the big cats... you only need to flip 25,000 to do this. No problem!!! That's only 3,572 a day. Across say 20 market slots (per character) with another 20 slots (per character) buying these up (GET EM ALL!). You only need to turn over all of your slots 18 times a day. On 2 characters. While transferring it back and forth.

If you figure that you can really use 3 characters to buy and another 3 (all with 20 slots) to sell you only need to turn over all of your slots on all 6 of your characters 6 times a day.

SWEET!

Or, you could pull your head out of your *** and get off the damn flippers. Its small potatoes you dolts!

I just GAVE AWAY almost 900,000,000 for guessing a number.

LET IT GO!

srsly.

Its like complaining because Minion X gives 354 xp and this other one over here gives 355. Who cares?

You want it cheap? You want it now? Critters give them away. All you need to do is ask - then kill them. You just gotta find the right guy.

Oh yeah, Dr. Aeon sells them too. Fixed price. Just like you wanted. Go buy his.

That 6 slotting a power for a set bonus is a global bonus and not just a power bonus.

You were asked when I went to make em =P No answer from you - arcane it is!

They're not hard to make - or expensive - just a giant pain in the backside when they take 3 salvage each, we need 12 of them, and I can only carry 15 salvage.

That reminds me...

Fulmens,

Please expend the permissions on the storage in the workshop right off the entrance. At this time, only you can put things in and take them out.

And I think you'll have to do that for every storage item that gets put into the base. Its... good to be king?

Hi!

This is the point ------> . <------

You seem to have missed it on your first pass through the thread.

Thank you!

% of Went's...

So, when you sell item A for 100 inf and that vendor undercuts you to 80. Where do people buy stuff?

The vendor. So you drop your price to 70 to sell yours.

And now he's selling it for 56.

You drop to 50... he's at 40.

This continues until you're better off vendoring.

At which point the inflation in the game goes insanely high.

Why?

It didn't reduce the money in and all it did was floor prices for IOs. People now can buy purples for 500 inf instead of 500 mil. This nets us a transaction fee of 50 instead of the previous 50 mil. You've taken a total of 550 inf out of a system that was originally taking 50 mil.

Actually, now that I think of it - people would stop making IOs. The crafting cost alone would make them worthless to sell in this system.

Its a nice idea - but one that would ultimately ruin the economy on such a scale as you have never seen before. People wouldn't market anymore. What's the point? So inf would just pile up and pile up. People would most likely stop buying SOs as they would be the "expensive" option to IOs.

Then you burn down your building and anyone who wants something after that will suddenly need to pay 10x what they used to - because people will have even more money than they do now.

Nope. We're all evil.

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Evil red dolphins running around causing much woe to the masses