Mental_Giant

Red-side, Blue-side, or Co-op?

Being able to lock your compass makes alignment-effecting missions meaningless.

I think MA missions will definitely not affect alignment, because it's a simulator. In retrospect, I think the Devs went this way because they knew GR was in the works and it lets players experience all kinds of content without it having a "real world" impact.

Praetoria does look more futuristic... just like Millennium City, but I highly doubt the comparison is intentional.

[ QUOTE ]
3) I hope the moral compass is something that can be utilized from Paragon City or the Rogue Isles without going to Praetoria. A character should be able to make these decisions without interdimensional travel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on this paragraph from the press release, I think you will only be able to alter your moral compass in Praetoria:

[ QUOTE ]
In the Going Rogue expansion, hero and villain characters will become immersed in the new parallel universe known as Praetoria, which is governed by Tyrant™, the evil incarnation of the game's main protagonist, Statesman™. As gamers search for Tyrant and the rest of his Praetorian guard, implacable foes and fierce resistance will arise to face them from all sides, causing heroes and villains alike to question their loyalties.

[/ QUOTE ]

Emphasis mine. It's just simpler for the Devs this way; they don't have to work new contacts/arcs/missions into the existing Cities, and if you're playing purely Blue or Red side you have no chance to Fall or be Redeemed.

HBD, Chum!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, devs, can you leak if:

There will be Praetorian Patron Pools

Heroside Patron Pools/Villainside Epics

Heroes having access to Villain Patrons and vice versa

[/ QUOTE ]

In terms of 'likely' or 'logical'... it doesn't seem that people would be picking patron powers unless they were a villain at the right level, and it doesn't seem that you'd be able to cross from patron to ancillary pools. And vice versa.

In game terms - just because Mako taught you great power, doesn't mean you can't use that great power against him if you switch sides... for example.

Which might make a bit of a stumbling block for switching sides in the 40 to 50 range (if they use an approach like that), because it's not necessarily logical for Mako to KEEP teaching you new stuff if you switch sides... but it's not necessarily logical to assume you'd gain access to the hero powers either - so it might come down to the simple choice of losing access to extra pools, if you switch sides in that level range.

[/ QUOTE ]

They did mention some kind of rewards for those who stayed their native path (and only their native path?)...

[/ QUOTE ]

The leaked survey did, not the Devs themselves. It seems reasonable, though.

[ QUOTE ]
BillZBubba wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's a huge difference between sideswitching or fallen/redemption and creating a brute and entering Atlas Park from the character creation screen.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure we won't be able to enter Praetorian Atlas as a brute and shift over after running to the new portal corp building there at level 1?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure. I'm guessing you'll have to run the Praetoria missions and make "choices" that affect your alignment. Only once you've moved your alignment to the appropriate heroic or good level, only then will you be able to enter blueside.

--NT

[/ QUOTE ]

But if you can go from Mercy directly into Praetoria, and go Good by lvl 5, effectively it's the same thing as rolling a Brute blue-side directly.

[ QUOTE ]
Let this be another lesson to anyone that confidently posts "never going to happen" in response to a suggestion they don't like.

[/ QUOTE ]

I admit I thought side-switching was never going to happen and said so at least once. I also thought Power Customization was never going to happen, so now I look forward to being proven wrong yet again!

[ QUOTE ]
So any one think that the fireball changing color in Desdemona's hand in the video means PC is coming? Need to start some rumors!

[/ QUOTE ]

Even I'm not crazy enough to buy into that, Penny!

My first thought was it's the difference between evil red side blasts and good blue side.

They have been dropping so many hints about PC though, and with CO around the corner... anything's possible.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What if Going Rogue is more like that; A new world, new dimension, whatever ... where you build a new toon and gain something other than influence or infamy ... and then choose your path. What if there is no red or blue door to go through to get to the other side? What if like in CoX, there are just new zones where you can use your new Rogue toons with Heroes and Villians?

[/ QUOTE ]
Existing characters will be able to side switch. That's the whole point of the expansion. If they were just going to add a 3rd side without allowing any crossovers, then crossing over would not be the entire focus of the hype.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with the exception that there will be a third physical side, Praetoria, which will be accessible to both Heroes and Villains. There will definitely be literal side-switching, however.

I'm up for this again if the time is right.

[ QUOTE ]
Another issue:
Since Praetoria is an alternate dimension, will we be allowed to create alignment-opposite doubles of our current characters there?

[/ QUOTE ]

You could already have done this in CoV. If you're asking if two characters on the server can have the same name, I'm pretty sure they can't.

EDIT: Oh, you meant opposite alignment with the same AT. Sure, you'll be able to do that, but you'll have to level them up from 1.

As for more slots, I'd be surprised if they increased the cap from 36 characters per server. I know the game is predicated on alt-itis, but that's a large number of slots!

I'm thinking Pistols will be a Blaster/Corruptor set as well, but with proliferation they might just want to save time and give it to Defenders too.

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to see more content to bring us back onto the streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we'll have to wait for CoX 2: Electric Boogaloo for that.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I start in Praetoria as a dominator...complete enough heroic Praetoria missions and take my side as a redeemed heroic Dominator...when I hit level 41, do I take APP or PPP?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you get APP. The real question is what happens if you go evil again. Do you keep your APP, or do you have to respec into a Patron Pool?

This might lead to a lot of Villains going Hero to get access to the APPs, which might mean that the Devs will have to settle on some kind of unified "Epic" Power Pool system.

[/ QUOTE ]

How would a Dominator APP work? Would they chose from an existing pool or would their be some created pool?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh... yeah, didn't think of that. They could make it simple:

Doms = Controller EPP
Brutes = Tank EPP
Stalker = Scrapper EPP
Corruptor = Defender EPP
Mastermind = Blaster EPP? I dunno about them.

[ QUOTE ]
How'd you miss out on the 100 enhancements we had laying around for everyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't 22 at the start of last night's session, so I checked out the bins before I logged. It was pretty picked over.

Any additional lvl 25s would be appreciated.

[ QUOTE ]
For the record, it is because of both Voo and Hamster!!! (j/k!!!)

[/ QUOTE ]

ZOMG LOLOL

[ QUOTE ]
If I start in Praetoria as a dominator...complete enough heroic Praetoria missions and take my side as a redeemed heroic Dominator...when I hit level 41, do I take APP or PPP?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you get APP. The real question is what happens if you go evil again. Do you keep your APP, or do you have to respec into a Patron Pool?

This might lead to a lot of Villains going Hero to get access to the APPs, which might mean that the Devs will have to settle on some kind of unified "Epic" Power Pool system.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let me break this down. When GR hits, there will be three Cities: Paragon City, Rogue Isles, and Praetoria.

Paragon is Hero only, RI is Villain only, and Praetoria is accessible to everyone who owns the Going Rogue expansion. While in Praetoria, you can do stuff that will affect your alignment. If a Hero does enough Bad stuff, he will lose access to Paragon City and only be able to access the Rogue Isles. The same goes for a Villain with the locations reversed, obviously.

[/ QUOTE ]

I added an important detail to your post.

I'm pretty sure this is the way they will do it. Alignment adjusting stuff will have to be confined to Praetoria (which would only be accessible to those who owned the expansion), otherwise anyone could switch sides.

This would mean, though, that anything you do as a character in Paragon City is de facto heroic and good, and anything you do in the Rogue Isles is the opposite. They're alignment capitals, I suppose.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't all missions in RI listed as Villain now and all Paragon missions listed Hero? I'm guessing this was all in preparation for GR.

And yes, my assumption was you would need to own the expansion to access Praetoria; I should have clarified myself originally.

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, is anyone missing out on anything currently? We can make what you need.

[/ QUOTE ]

I need everything. Lvl 25 damage, heal, recharge, acc.

[ QUOTE ]
Oh btw.. I'm only assuming like everyone else that when you zone into this new praetoria zone coming in issue 16, your morality meter will be one or the other, hero or villain with a gray area in between.

My reason for this is that the system must prohibit people from becoming heroes or villains at 51%. If they didn't, then mules will be created to shuffle influence over to infamy and vise versa. This would also include the auction house, and access to contacts and stores.

I'm guessing in order for a player to have full access to either side, they must be at 70-90% on their meter in order to access anything. Otherwise there would be a huge loophole in the way people transfer funds and drops to villain side or hero side.

With a 20% gray area on your meter, you basically cannot access or trade anything until you reach 70-90%. This would keep folks from exploiting by crossing over when ever they see fit and causing mayhem. Not that there's anything wrong with a little mayhem, but it would add an unfair advantage to players who could switch so easilty at that 50% marker on the meter.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the markets will be consolidated which will obviate most of these issues. If not, then the first players who cross over will have a tremendous market advantage until things even out.

[ QUOTE ]
Well, look, I very well might be wrong about it, but at the beginning of CoV, you had to make all new characters at Level 1 so I don't see why it is stupid they would do that again.

[/ QUOTE ]

CoV had 5 new ATs, so you couldn't possibly have had existing characters of those types. GR is rumored to have 1 new AT, but it might not well have any.

One of the major appeals of switching sides is taking a 50 who has done all the content on his side, and switching him over to see how he fares against that content. For the Devs to take that away would be a costly mistake.

[ QUOTE ]
After all, if I can just arbitrarily switch sides, what would possibly motivate me to create a "new" character?

[/ QUOTE ]

New sets (Pistols, Demon Summoning), and maybe to create a new character to run through existing content in a way you never could before (level a Stalker 1 to 50, blue side, for example).

[ QUOTE ]
We know that heroes will be able to visit a version of the rogue isles. Will they be able to go there and take missions like other villains, or will the version of the Rogue Isles that heroes can visit be instanced and only accessible by others who have the "going rogue" edition. To what extent will heroes be able to visit the Rogue Isles? These are questions that are not answered. For all we know, side switching might be restricted to level 40+ and thus "fallen" heroes can only visit Grandville.

That's my point. It's WAY too early into our understanding of the new expansion to attempt to figure out its impact on the rest of the game. Hold the doooooom until we know something more definite.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hold the doom? I'm bringing the JOOOOOOOOY here.

In the press release they made no qualifications about "alternate" "instanced" versions of the Rogue Isles™... they said the Rogue Isles™. Everyone knows what that means. Not Fairy Rogue Isles™ or Praetorian Rogue Isles™ or Wonderland Rogue Isles™.

I have also heard the theory put forward that only newly created character will be able to switch sides, which would be a disastrous decision on Paragon Studios' part, so I didn't even entertain the notion.

I'm not here to argue. The point of this thread is to ponder what impact Defenders will have on red-side, if any.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not sure what the big deal is about this; characters will just be playing in Praetorian zones with different story arcs, right? New content is nice, I suppose, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

The big deal is now both sides will have access to ALL ATs, and it won't be just in the Praetorian zones. Heroes who go rogue will have access to the Rogue Isles, and Villains who are redeemed will have access to Paragon City. It has ramifications for putting together team throughout the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually we don't know that. We know that we'll be able to switch sides, but NO idea what that will entail.

[/ QUOTE ]

We do know that, from the Press Release, from the email, and from Posi's interview:

[ QUOTE ]
City of Heroes Going Rogue officially opens the "mirror universe" of Praetoria and an all-new alignment system that explores the shades of gray that lie between Heroes and Villains. For the first time, Hero characters can become Villains and vice versa, enabling Heroes to cross over to the Rogue Isles™ and Villains to experience Paragon City™.

[/ QUOTE ]

Emphasis mine. It's the whole reason I started this thread!

[/ QUOTE ]

But is your fallen hero in the Praetorian Rogue Isles only?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait... there's no such thing as the Paretorian Rogue Isles... only Praetoria, which will be co-op. So:

Heroes: Paragon City + Praetoria
Villains: Rogue Isles + Praetoria
Fallen Heroes: Rogue Isles + Praetoria
Redeemed Villains: Paragon City + Praetoria

Bear in mind you can switch sides multiple times, and the survey leaked last year seemed to indicate that you could play a "double agent" role while on the opposite side if you wanted. This last part has not been confirmed, however.

[/ QUOTE ]


Actually, at this point, it's all theory. Unless it's been SPECIFICALLY announced, jumping the gun on how things will or will not work is very premature.

[/ QUOTE ]

We know for a fact that Heroes will be able to play in the Rogue Isles by changing alignment, and vice versa with the villains. Also, Praetoria is clearly referenced as a new zone (or set of zones).

The part about only being able to change alignment in Praetoria is an extrapolation, however.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, can I go on record as the first person to be amazed by the total lack of "expanshalone" jokes?

[/ QUOTE ]

GR isn't an expanshalone, though, you need to have CoH in order to play.