Memphis_Bill

Multiply by 25 for this altaholic, as far as "if you wanted to get them all." And I got *six* threads.

I run alts. I've run my first 50 from time to time. I run other characters. I *average* 40-65 mill on them. 100 mill for conversion, to me, is "don't bother." 400 million, to me, is "You'll get a PVP IO drop about the same time."

My highest -
Memphis bill, Pinnacle - 312 million.
CTI Dreamer, Victory - 324 million - and only because of a decent purple drop, first I'd had in quite some time.

Next highest are a hair over 100 million, and there's only a couple. Then down even farther. That *is* with selling. Drop on the market or vendor, depending on what it is (because after all, that Calibrated Accuracy recipe is in *such* demand.)

Didn't they say something specifically to that effect during - I think it was the Meet 'n Greet?

No, they'd started shiny-chasing then, too.

Infinite loop... rather like "raid for gear to raid for gear to raid for gear?"

I don't mind hard. As I've said several times now - people complained about Trapdoor, I use him and the others in that as a test for my 50s, several of which have soloed that arc on SOs, much like I use BB's Shivan run as a test in the mid-late teens. I *liked* having Voids that were actually dangerous for my Khelds, and find their nerfing to be disappointing, but long in the past now.

I don't like feeling like I *must* keep running the same content over and over. Lambda isn't even all that interesting, frankly. Yet I have to keep running it if I want to get to the various powers... the point of which is, really, to run the same content, and which feed into themselves by being the only realistic way to get the rewards that let you get the powers.

Grind.

Yes, some people run ITFs constantly - but there's nothing there that makes them HAVE to do so. The same rewards can be gotten elsewhere. Yes, I *have* rerun the ITF on the same character at times - because I felt like it, and with wide spacing between runs. I didn't feel like I was losing progress.

Nor do I feel like, if I haven't run it, I'll be deadweight on an "ITF-powered" team that HAS run it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

In addition, I'm an altaholic. The game has, until now, catered to that. It's almost a design statement. Now? The refrain I hear over and over from players is "Concentrate on one 50, or maybe one hero and one villain." Great. So if I want to do anything with the other - what did I say before, 24? Nearly 25? - 50s, they're back to being dead weight.

With the new (non-incarnate) trials, I can fit them into a "what the heck, why not" play style. I can join from 20-50. It's inclusive. I'm not at a disadvantage because I'm not on a character that didn't grind away at the *same* trial over and over again. This isn't true for the Incarnate trials - or, frankly, system as a whole.

Oh, wait, I can "convert" things... for - what were those costs again? 20 million, 100 million, and 400 million INF? I don't have that on most characters. None have 400 million. Maybe two are close.

There's more than just "not fun" (as I find Lambda rather bland) here. And when they make comments about "Why is the well collecting incarnates? Hmmm," I worry that if I don't force myself to grind through this now, I won't see the future content either.

... which is, to me, an echo of the New Maria. "Yeah, well, we sent ahead some real hero support, I guess you can go along if you like and watch Statesman clear the map." As opposed to what it used to be, "Big threat, he's missing, and you're the only one who can save him!"

It's Golden Girl. What do you expect. She lives in her own reality, doing a lamprey imitation on the devs.

Hmm. Last night.
Good team, someone who had run this several times. Team paid attention, worked as a unit, decent mix of ATs, etc.

Result?

"Hey, look, Marauder!" *team wipe, team wipe, team wipe*

Perhaps because people would prefer "Learning and being able to handle it on their own" instead of "Being dragged along and being useless while the level shifted do all the work without breaking a sweat?"

Nah, that couldn't possibly be it.

*ding ding ding* We have a winnar!

Once the population "gets used to" the encounters, there will be level-shifted, Interface/Judgement/etc. powered characters who can trivialize it and don't care if they're dragging others along that can't really contribute much on their own.

What "Idle threats?"

If I don't like the direction the game takes, and it looks like it's going farther and farther that way, I'll no longer play the game.

I'm not leaving now.

"Idle threats?"

"Dumbing down?"

You mean, making the game, oh, similar to 1-50, not seemingly *requiring* you grind through to get stuff to grind to get stuff to grind so you can grind to get stuff to grind?

Read what you just said there.

That is NOT how I play, and it sure as HELL isn't how I want my character to feel.

"Leach LFT!" is not something I broadcast, and it isn't how I want to feel in the mission. If I did, I'd just find an AE farm and stand by the door, and brag about having 200 50s.
Taser, this post - which shows JUST HOW BADLY you've missed the point - was more a waste of time.

If I only had room in my .sig (technically I do, but the editor won't let me do so thanks to the guide links.)

And this is the end game weirdness. People will grind out the abilities - some of which have no place (and IIRC are disabled, like additional level shifts) outside the raids, and then what?

Flip side is the concern, I've said before, that the "Coming storm" storyline will essentially be locked away behind this grind.

Don't like either one.

Maybe if you have only 1-2 characters. Or like grinding these out day after day.

Right. Because there'll be no new 50s at all after June or so.

And what is part of what people are putting in as difficulty?

The design.

The "Grind while you fail until you've ground enough to unlock this and fill it."

The "Designed with level shift in mind" vibe.

Design and direction.

PLUS, you threw that at me as a "Shut up and stop complaining."

Show me where I'm complaining about difficulty versus direction and design. You're normally better at comprehending what's being said than this.

Want to highlight this.

When I run the ITF (for instance) for the third or fourth time, it's because I felt like "Hey, I'd like to do so." Yes, I get some people like grinding it over and over for badges or whatnot, but there's nothing about the ITF that, in and of itself, is designed around that grind. There's no "You must repeat the ITF (and have a good chance at failing) to be able to deal with the ITF with a chance of success." And there's no hint that "Finish the ITF successfully and build up your power, because future content will need you to be a successful, built-up ITF Runner!"

Repeat because it's fun, repeating on an "as I feel like it" basis? Great.

Repeat to get gear to repeat and do better to get required gear to repeat to do better? Not fun.

First, no, there's not "really only one way to tell the devs." If all you can say is "If you don't like it, leave," then go take a long walk off a short pier. Because, guess what, I *am* telling the devs that I don't like it. I have every right to, and YOU not liking me doing so - well, tough titty.

Let me make this REALLY simple for you. Here, see if you can follow along.

IE, "Wait and don't make a kneejerk complaint."

IE, "This isn't the first time I've seen it. This is not a kneejerk complaint."

IE, "um, I don't get it."

So let me spell out what you missed again:

This, frankly, is what worries me.

This *is* - despite what Dechs and a few others want to believe - a big change from what we've had before. If it's just "incarnate related challenges" thrown behind it - well, just like PVP, if you dont' like it, you can ignore it.

If they tie the "Pending since Issue 6" (mentioned w/Shivans, introduced with Bloody Bay in I6) Coming Storm behind it, where you MUST be an Incarnate to do jack with it? (And I don't mean a side "oh, you can see them froma few miles away" mission, or a new-Maria "You're a third-string wannabe now" attitude in the writing if you're not Omega-slotted, full-branched, etc.)

We know, thanks to Tin Mage and Apex, that they'll be MORE than happy to introduce mechanics to screw people over *even more* (see "Negative level shift") if you aren't slotted the way the devs want.

Do that to content pending for years... yeah. I don't forsee a good result if they do that. Despite what Dechs may think, I *am* sitting and waiting to see if I can just ignore the system, or if I have to bid the game a sad farewell from these sorts of changes.

Doesnt' mean I'm not going to make it abundantly clear I don't *like* these changes. Much like I don't think anyone has to guess my opinion on, oh, the VEAT arcs.

So does realizing "Hey, some of these people might NOT be seeing this for the first time as of yesterday" and calling the post pointing that out a "non sequitur."

Then saying anything about it to you is pointless, as there certainly *are* differences. I mean, practically speaking it's pointless *anyway* since you have as much to do with adjustments and feedback as the fingernail clipper in my drawer, but discussion wise here, it's pointless.