Melancton
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Quote:*makes a note on Sam's medical records*Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
If I die with a smile on my face, please bring me back.
Sam, you have called this one correctly.
When Wile E. Coyote took a plunge to the canyon floor, he would often hold up a sign that said "Help!" or "Yike!" That is sort of what we all would be thinking.
What the Devs have done is have Statesman hold up a sign that says "OMG I am SO GLAD to be dead after decades of fighting crime!" as he is plunging to the canyon floor. It is so unexpected from him as to wreck the suspension of disbelief. The Devs also appear to want to add to the sign "BTW This was an INSPIRING and MOVING death scene, so your character is hereby INSPIRED and MOVED!"
*You have been awarded the "Inspired and Moved!" Badge*
...except is does not work at all.
I have enjoyed the player suggestions for the death scene (including YOURS) far more than the actual event.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
^ ThisTechbot, I think we all understood that part.Quote:Originally Posted by Melancton
So, Ms. Liberty, why not get Statesman instead?
I mean, other than the fact the Devs want him dead.
Leonard Nimoy did not want to play Spock again. They accomodated him. Then he did. They accomodated him. Did they do a good job in each case? "He is a fictional character, DUH!!!111!!!" is not really the point of the discussion, is it?
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Quote:Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
And it doesn't occur to you how baseless of a conclusion that is? That a corpse with what looks like a smile was happy to be dead? It's a heavy-handed "you just know" it storytelling technique that people use when they have no other means of conveying a fact they want to treat as a certainty.Regarding Sam's comment: Yes, in Real Life, the look on the face is hardly dispositive. And yes, it is poor storytelling for the Devs to have used a heavy-handed pronouncement to state the fact. Add that to the huge list of Bad Writing Offenses the SSAs has already spawned.Quote:Originally Posted by Stormbird
Frankly, I find the "Bring him back!" to be pretty selfish. Either that or the "heroes" demanding it are so insecure in their own abilities they shouldn't be out of super-diapers.
Regarding Stormbird's comment: Good Grief. Before I am washed away in the torrent of insulting invective, let me suggest that the notions that Statesman had been "looking for rest after fighting crime for several decades" to the point that he would give up and let his daughter's murderer kill him and then be happy to have died under such circumstances are so staggeringly counterintuitive that the Devs had to make a flat-out pronouncement that these are now "facts" that we "somehow just know, Amen."
In a game awash with folks that come back from the dead in battalions, and often involuntarily, especially in the case of zombies, etc., and in which Time Travel is commonplace and unlimited, the question on the table was "Why not use the Ritual to revive Statesman?"
It is ONLY after it is established as a FACT that Statesman does not wish to ever return that such a desire is "selfish." Even after the Devs' ham-handed Souvenir pronouncement, it is still only an inference that Statesman would not wish to return. He could happily die with a smile on his face but still conclude he needed to come back to avenge his daughter, protect his granddaughter, save the world, etc. That much has not been established as a fact one way or the other., The inference that he would rather be dead seems fairly reasonable, but the inference that Statesman was going to stop at nothing to take Wade in was extremely reasonable too, until Statesman decided to welcome death with a smile and that was that.
So we are having a discussion about all of that. Do you have an opinion? -
Quote:Sylph, I shared all of your reasoning when I began the thread. But the Devs have made a summary pronouncement about these issues in the Souvenir from Statesman's death:Originally Posted by Sylph_Knight
My problem is that the permanency of Statesman's death doesn't make any sense.
Ms. Liberty already knows about and has access to Ouroboros. It wouldn't take her but 5 minutes to pop back in time and warn her Grandpa about his ensuing demise. She used it before to try and intercept a group of villains attacking her mother who were also using the time-traversing power of Ouroboros. Regardless of what Statesman felt at the moment he "surrendered", what he felt in an earlier time would have adversely affected his perception in the present. The presence of Ouroboros breaks the justification for his permanent death with ease.
As for him dying "happy" - the only person who realizes this would be Statesman himself (or possibly a telepathic hero at the scene). The rest of us would only know what we saw - one of the proudest heroes in history slain by some overzealous punk with aspirations far beyond his station.
>>>You may always remember that moment when you stood over Statesman's body. His face was smiling. It almost looked like he was simply playing dead, if not for his lifeless eyes staring past you. It seems that Statesman welcomed his death; perhaps he finally grasped the rest he was looking for after fighting crime for several decades.<<<
I have already commented on it, but whatever you may have thought before, the Devs have there flatly announced that Statesman was looking for peace after several decades of fighting crime and welcomed his death, and died with a smile.
This constitutes, as Sam ably put it, the final ruination of Statesman. -
Quote:You are so right, Shagster.Originally Posted by Shagster
I just wish Ms. Liberty at *least* had one line of dialogue with something like her shaking her head sadly, and wishing that this particular ritual would work on some people she could think of that would be more deserving of a second chance at life. Then she could put that regret aside and continue with the plan, "working with what she's got."
And that is the difference between engaging writing that fleshes out a character and "Because." -
Quote:I liked it.Originally Posted by Kurrent
It would have made much more sense and been more fitting if States had died as part of a heroic sacrifice. Such as...
<cue Statesman stepping onto the triggger of the ritual>
Darrin Wade: "Do you have any last words before you die?"
Statesman, in obvious agony, struggles to his feet despite the pain coursing through his body as his powers are stripped away. "Yes... Wade..." he managed to force out through clenched teeth. "You're not... the only one... who can use ritual magic."
<Camera pulls back to reveal the ghostly figures of Numina, Kelly Nemmers, War Witch and Archmage Tarixus, all hovering at equidistant points of a circle surrounding the entire mountain top. As Wade looks at each of them in turn, some of the rock slides off of the side of the mountain top, revealing glowing runes.>
Numina: "You have shown us that you are indeed a much greater threat than we had credited you, Darrin Wade. But your glee will be fleeting."
Tarixus: "Very, very fleeting." (with appropriate cackle)
Kelly Nemmers: "The power of Statesman has been a force for good and justice for nearly a century, Wade. But all of us--and even Marcus himself--would rather it disappear from the world forever than fall into the hands of one as wicked and depraved as yourself."
War Witch: "Which is why we came up with this particular ritual. We had a very good idea of your plans, and this was our final failsafe we had prepared with Statesman's help over the last week: a magical working that would only be triggered by Zeus's power being ripped out of Marcus Cole's body. A working that would use such an event to destroy not only the subject, as you had planned, but the caster as well."
Tarixus: "You see, boy, no one wants you to have the power of Zeus. Your predilection with the Shadowgod already made you dangerous, but letting you have the power to breach the dimensions and bring the Beast here is unacceptable."
Numina: (to War Witch) "Marcus can't hold out much longer. I can feel the Incarnate energy gradually wrest itself free due to Wade's magic."
War Witch: "Then it is time."
Statesman, slowly walking toward Wade, gold and crimson energy splashing around him (voice subdued but firm): "I would sacrifice my life to save my daughter, or to bring her back. Just like I would sacrifice it to end your menace once and for all." As he finishes, Statesman grabs Wade's shirt.
Darrin Wade: "You fools! This masochistic exercise will destroy all of you, too!"
Kelly Nemmers (with a spectral smile): "Hadn't you noticed, Darrin? We're already dead."
<Cue the entire mountain exploding, followed by Statesman's cinematic reunion with his wife and daughter.>
Now THAT would have been a good, heroic, climactic ending. You like that one, Oz?
K
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Quote:I believe the expression is "QFT." I cannot add to that.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Because to me, that is how a hero should go down - swinging and engaging in his final moment of glory. Not curled up in a ball, hoping for someone to tell him it's OK to give up and stop fighting, utterly defeated both physically and psychologically. Because, really, what DID the Statesman do in this arc? Really. He yelled at Ms. Liberty off-camera, then showed up to die. That's a hell of a sendoff story, I have to say.
Amen. It runs counter to Statesman's character and is a Big Surprise, as previously noted. But if he wants to stay dead, that officially answers my question, even though it is an extremely lame answer, demonstrating, as you say, the final ruination of Statesman.Quote:Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
With all due respect, **** him, then. I know heroes are not indebted to society, and so are not obligated to fight crime even when they don't want to, but that's what sets up the true heroes from the powerful supers - the willingness to do the right thing and fight the good fight even when it's unpleasant, even when it's hard, even when it hurts. Everyone can get struck by lightning and develop super powers. Not everyone has stomach to be a hero with them. Because, really, it's not the powers that make the hero. Plenty of real life heroes have no special powers at all. What they have is the courage and dedication to do what must be done, no matter the cost.Quote:Originally Posted by Iannis
Statesman wanted to stay dead.
In a sense, wanting to stay dead is the final ruination of what should have been a great and inspiring hero.
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Quote:"Because" is lazy writing, which is a subset of overall Bad Writing.Originally Posted by SuperOz
*sigh*
No. That's not our job. If that were our job, we'd be doing this story in an AE arc.
It's the writer's job to answer my questions both as a character and as a player. If I'm making stuff up for them, then that says a lot about the quality of story to begin with. 'Just because' is the equivalent of 'A Wizard Did it'. Don't be afraid to say after the mission that you get told it's 'uber powerful magic and it had all sorts of counter-wards in it,' anything to give an explanation.
NOT 'just because'.
S.
There can be explanations which, while technically not "Because," are so poorly-written as to be almost as bad. The details you are asking for are counterintuitive, silly or merely a summary statement of fact.
"Statesman welcomed death" falls into the latter category.
It is an inference that he cannot be revived by any means because he refuses to come back, but if "Statesman welcomed death" is presented by the Devs in the souvenir as a bald fact, the inference does, at least logically, make reasonable sense.
Without the proper predicate being laid, "Statesman welcomed death" still comes as a big, BIG surprise, especially under the circumstances of his daughter's murderer doing the deed as Statesman is coming after him. I mean, the souvenir may as well read "Statesman had always wanted to be a can of tomato soup" for all the expectation of such that had been given us. -
In light of this discussion, I went looking for some possible documentation of inferences that folks are drawing.
As it turns out, there is a Souvenir from Statesman's death. It can be seen here: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Glacia
Pertinent quotes:
>>>You may always remember that moment when you stood over Statesman's body. His face was smiling. It almost looked like he was simply playing dead, if not for his lifeless eyes staring past you.<<<
This makes me pretty grumpy. The "looks like he is simply playing dead" with a smile on his face part does not sit well with me from a standpoint of good writing, but tastes may differ so I will spot them that.
My other complaint is that when I stood over Statesman's body, he was FACEDOWN. I could not see his face! This sort of thing impeaches the killer's testimony and prompts a confession on most crime shows.
>>> It seems that Statesman welcomed his death; perhaps he finally grasped the rest he was looking for after fighting crime for several decades.<<<
I would again argue this has no predicate expressly laid and comes as a big surprise that he would welcome death. I would argue that it is contrary to Statesman's character as I have set out before.
What I cannot argue is that the Devs did explicitly spell it out.
If all we lacked was an "Obvious Trap! (tm)" sign by the Obvious Trap (tm), then all we lacked here was Statesman holding up a sign saying, "I AM VERY GLAD I AM DEAD AFTER DECADES OF FIGHTING CRIME!"
For what it's worth, I also think this is horrible writing overall. If it is "Good Writing," it am Bizarro Good Writing.
But they did spell it out plainly. -
Quote:To answer your first question, that is actually a feasible reason... it simply has to be inferred. The Devs are utterly silent in the writing on that issue.Originally Posted by Mad_Scientist_JC
Why is "he doesn't want to live an horrible life where everyone he knows will age and die around him," not a good reason to decline rez prompts? How about this, Statesman didn't give up and die. Marcus Cole did. There was a man behind the mask, a man that tried to live up to ideals as best he could, but still a man. Statesman wants to protect the world forever, but Marcus Cole just wants his damn rest. How many times does he have to save the world before he can call it good and retire?
The problematic issue for me is the sudden, summary nature of it. Statesman vows to Wade that he is going to make sure he rots in prison for the death of his daughter, then walks into the Obvious Trap (tm) (for an inferred reason not explicitly given) and then is caught in the force beams. He realizes he is having his power stolen and is getting killed.
So he decides to die at the prompting of his deceased wife, flops a couple of times and is dead. If you blink, you miss it.
SuperOz has set out some excellent reasons earlier in the thread as to why this seems utterly out of character, and I added a few myself. It is also a dramatic shift in attitude on Statesman's part in the space of a few seconds, from "I'm taking you in" to "I'm going to just give up and die."
Your explanation is fine. It could work, had it been given, and it would be satisfactory overall if the Devs had laid some groundwork for it. But that did not happen. As it stands, we have to infer that a Ritual will presumably not work because Statesman does not want to return, period. Why that may be so also has to be inferred. And that is greatly problematic. -
Quote:Originally Posted by flipside
Who's to say Duncan/Liberty didn't try it already and Statesman didn't come back?I do not disagree with the above explanations, except to note that they all have to be inferred because the Devs have NOT said.Quote:Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
There's nothing to say what happens to Statesman between the time he storms off from his daughter's funeral and when he arrives at the ruins to confront Darrin Wade.
I am still with SuperOz that Statesman summarily giving up and dying seems extremely out of character, not only for the reasons Oz notes, but because Wade is 1) the murderer of Statesman's daughter 2) is stealing his power to use against the world and quite likely also against 3) Statesman's granddaughter, who is likewise in grave danger (and even moreso if she has inherited the inferred family trait of Walking Into An Obvious Trap (tm).)
As far as Statesman not wanting to come back, he was already "too far gone" or some such for Numina to revive him when Manticore killed him in the comics, so Manticore committed suicide, swam in the floaty-floaty netherworld, found and then grabbed Statesman and Numina beamed them both back, in essence. Where was the lonely Monica, who presumably was also then waiting for Statesman back then in the afterlife? Why is okay to die when Wade pulls off his second family murder in a row but it was not back then?
As I have said before, many players have come up with explanations that are actually pretty good, but the Devs have not. There are gaps and outright silence on any number of topics. The possible answers the players provide are all inferred, one way or another, and a number of them are extremely unpalatable. -
I looked at the Paragon Wiki page for Arbiter Hawk and the mechanics of calling the Red Widow back from the dead. I note this bit of information:
>>>I see, then you would need two obols, one to send Charon across the river Styx and one to bring him back with the soul in question in tow. Is the soul expecting to be brought back? I don't believe so. Then might I suggest a part of you take the trip as well, and for that you will need a third obol.<<<
It has already been noted that our heroes have access to Time Travel through Ouroboros, and once Darrin Wade has Described In Detail His Brilliant Evil Plan, it would not even take Bill and Ted to hop back into the past and foil him in about a dozen ways.
But if I am to understand things correctly, Ms. Liberty is also soliciting folks to raise the Red Widow from the dead, whether she wants it or not.
(I am leaving aside the notion that the terminology used by the Devs in this quest again has real-life meaning in many cases, and they go far beyond the typical Orpheus Descending sort of Go Into Hades retrieval mission and utilize self-cutting and some other unfortunate actions during "the ritual" in this scenario. This isn't Manticore swimming in the floaty-floaty netherworld and grabbing the deceased and getting beamed out sort of stuff.)
So, Ms. Liberty, why not get Statesman instead?
I mean, other than the fact the Devs want him dead.
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How about this?
Quote:Time is short
I'll make this quick
I've run off
With the Russian chick
Nice while it lasted, but
Hasta La Vista, baby!
Ray
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Eh, the cows decided there was really no point to it.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Needing more story was born out of the need to make peace with the story as it was told.
The original miniseries of "Shogun!" is around eight hours long. My wife rented a video version of it a while back, but it was distilled down to around TWO hours. It was like watching a long trailer. Everything was cut down, and dialogue, etc., that explained motivations vanished. Even the camera shots were cut down to MTV quickness. Having seen the original, this version was painful to watch, and it completely confused my wife. We later got the uncut version on DVD and she enjoyed that.
This may explain pretty much why I thought the SSAs, up through the death of Statesman, have been awful: the story is a bare-bones cut-down. Who knows if the full story is any good? We never saw it. Many folks have fleshed out the details in their posts, but that is more than we got officially.
And as Slick Riptide has pointed out, the SSAs are promoted and priced as UltraExcellent Good Stuff. They should be Epic. As it is, I thought they were lame, but I think upon reflection, they are just really, really incomplete stories, probably due to time constraints. And that is actually just a shame. I wish they were Epic. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Dark_Respite
Oh. Is that why I never got an answer about my question to you via PM re: the Pummit?
*shrugs*
I'll forgive you this time.
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Just remember: the Emperor is not as forgiving as she is.
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Quote:Sam, it is interesting that a few dashed-off ideas in the forums sound better than what actually was presented. Yours above is very good. It makes one wonder how much may have been sacrificed to a timetable.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
You know, this kind of irked me, as well. I mean, I like the scene for what it is - the graceful death of a character who'd had so much mud slung at him. For how he got killed, the Statesman died like a good man, and I can respect this.
But then I think back to the fight I had with Marshal Blitz... And it was AWESOME! Seriously, the way that fight is written - and it's not that complex - it's probably the most exciting boss fight in the whole game, and I did it by myself. It has so many of the things I've suggested over the years. When you first come in, Blitz is invincible until you break his generators, and you can see the beams of energy shooting from them to his armour. You break those, you fight Blitz to 0 HP, then he disappears. He comes back with a Black Helicoper and you can either fight him or use the turrets. That blows up, he comes back down at half health and this time he fights to the finish. THAT was a cool, exciting, interesting fight.
So what was the Statesman's death encounter like? Statesman dies, you fight Darrin until he drops down to 90% health, then he summons ONE BOSS and when you beat that, it's all over. Bo-ring!
Why couldn't we have had a bigger fight WITH the Statesman? Say I arrive at the spot and warn him. Now the Statesman knows he could be killed, but he still won't back down and let Wade escape, because he's a hero. We know to avoid the circle, but we still fight him. So Wade disappears and summons Ruladak, we fight that. In the meantime, he's set up four Rularuu obelisks that constantly assault us with illusions, and we need to destroy them. Then Wade appears and starts fighting with super powers and we beat him down. Wait, what? Cutscene time.
To me, it looks like the super-powered Wade is an illusion, but wait! What is Ms. Liberty doing here! When did she get here? Oh, no! With Alexis' blood, Wade could kill her, instead! What, Statesman, what are you... No! So he rushes in, shoves his granddaughter out of the circle and gets tagged by the kill spell. The energy release is so great it pins both me and Liberty in place so we can't interfere. Now a fully-powered Wade tries his power in both me and Liberty, but he's not strong enough yet, so he summons Rularuu minions to help him. That doesn't work, so opens a dimension rift right there and turns tail to run. We can't chase him because if the rift stays open, the Rularuu will try to push through into our world, so we have to stay behind, fight the monsters and close the rift.
More work? Absolutely. I'd have waited another month for that, though, personally. It would have made the Statesman come off not just like a good man, but as a great hero, it would have done a lot to redeem Liberty's screw-up at the start of the arc, and it would have been a lot more exciting than one fight with one dude.
Statesman's death SHOULD have been the MOST epic part of all of the SSAs thus far. Instead, it was presented in a summary, ho-hum manner. He came, he saw (the Obvious Trap tm), he walked into it, he flopped a few times, he gave up, he died.
A number of folks have postulated reasons for the summary story that was presented, and a lot of it seems feasible, but let's just put it this way: if each member of the audience had to guess why Rick is doing what he is doing at the end of "Casablanca," it would not be considered a great story. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Kheldarn
No test for you. Come back, one year!Quote:Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
But then Mod5 will lock it for Necro.
Kheldarn nails the prediction to the day!
Is Shadow Ravenwolf also correct? We shall see, but IBTL!
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Quote:Ultimately, I think you are right here, Slick. Erring on the side of the most charity, the problem may be the medium more than anything else.Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
"maybe...", "probably...", "imagine if...", "I assumed...", "anyone in his situation would...", speculate, guess, infer, deduce.
If the story was complete we wouldn't be doing all of this guesswork and writing our own personalized version of the story in our heads.
If Paragon Studios intends to sell me SSA's as a virtual good, then future SSA's had better be complete stories and offer some sort of tangible game value and replay value. As it stands now, I own SSA 1-1 and that's the only chapter I'll ever need to own since buying extra chapters doesn't give me any more of a reward than owning that one chapter gives me.
As I have read ClawsandEffects' explanation of Statesman's actions, I thought to myself that I might not have had the intensely negative reaction I had if things had been explained that way in the arc. But they were NOT, which on the face of it leaves Statesman looking like a prize idiot, unless you fill in the gaps for yourself as Claws very admirably did. But I have to wonder if it would actually be POSSIBLE to do that in the arc itself.
What it boils down to is that the Devs are telling a story that has to have certain things happen without fail, including Statesman dying. No matter what the players do, the story will end the same way, period. Isn't this sort of thing EXACTLY what happens in a comic? Instead of a monthly arc, would the Devs be better served with a monthly online COMIC? Certainly for something like Statesman dying, I would think so. A comic is FAR better suited to tell a story, which is what "Who Will Die?" winds up being.
That is not to say that even within the arc as it has appears, there is not a LOT more that could have been done to convey the information that Claws has filled in. And from where I sit, some of the writing was simply poorly scripted in key areas, and continues to be in other areas pertaining to Statesman's death (see the thread in which the eulogy for Statesman delivered by Positron that Samuraiko offered up was greatly superior to that actually put forth by the Devs.) And yet, even as I write that, I recognize that the limitations on story-telling imposed by the arc form make it very difficult to do good writing. Troy Hickman's "Smoke and Mirrors" arc from the comics is magnificent; when compressed into Twilight Son's Ouroboros arc, it loses a LOT of its emotional resonance and the plot changes a bit. The opportunities for Hickman's scripting talents were few and far between in the arc as dialogue was minimal, and the very powerful nightmare sequence never made it to the arc. So for all I know, the death of Statesman arc that we see might have been as good as "Smoke and Mirrors" if presented in a comic. Well, if Hickman is scripting, there is a very good chance that is so.
It just may not be possible to tell the complete story or to do enough justice to the details as mission arcs in the game. They should revive the comic if they want to tell stories we are not supposed to affect; the SSAs are not cutting it, and it may be that their constraints are causing that. -
Quote:Look under "Economy of Prose" and you will find this passage.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
so he DOESN'T pull Wade's trachea out through his rectum.
Very efficient writing and VERY picturesque!
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Quote:Which pretty much sums up the competing versions of Batman, but I digress.Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I subscribe to the writing approach that characters are defined by their choices, not their circumstances. You can put two characters through the ordeal of having their parents murdered before them, and still one will leave swearing vengeance upon the world while the other will leave swearing to protect people from horrors like these.
Regarding Manticore, I don't know that his flaws derive from his background as such... they are just the flaws that he has. They speak more to the larger point that the elite Super Group of Paragon City recruited a guy who routinely loses his temper (or whatever) and goes at cross-purposes to the SG. Imagine how well Seal Team 6 would operate if they took on guys like that. Well, they couldn't, which is the point.
In the original Battlestar Galactica, there was the stereotypical little kid with the stereotypical dog (who was a robot) that stereotypically would bolt out of hiding to do some stereotypically stupid dog-thing (bark at Cylons, sniff their hinders, etc) which NATURALLY led to the little kid shrieking the dog's name, running out from safety to chase said dog and getting captured by said Cylons. It was really irritating by the second time it happened; by the fifth time, it was beyond ridiculous. The Manticore situation is pretty much in the same territory.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Dark One
I think Troy got et by zombies...
What are you planning on using for the milk for the cheese, post Z-day? Cuz there probably aren't going to be a whole lot of livestock around...
Does this settle the long-standing historic debate over who would prevail in a Zuni Idol vs. Zombie fight?Quote:Originally Posted by TroyHickman
But I fought my way back out from inside!
The Zombies certainly have a better PR machine, that is sure. -
Quote:I think the key to balancing exposition with gameplay is to make the exposition as optional as possible on the receiving end, sort of in line with your comment of running it solo for the story and then speed-running it with buddies later.Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
At least with the Dark Astoria arcs, I have hope that they've figured out how to strike the right balance of exposition and action, scripting and straightforward fights, special maps and reskinned offices. Then again, the 1-20 Preatorian content also gets it right, so I fear the sparing use of special shinies may be due strictly to time constraints and if they could they'd make every arc a jumble of complex scripting, backtracking, and walls of text.
Ultimately, there should be some mechanic for skipping cutscenes and other exposition for those who are not interested. But the exposition really needs to be there and available! I have read a half a dozen explanations as to why Statesman walked into The Obvious Trap. Whether or not I like the explanations, they are still far better than the reason officially given by the Devs which was... well, they didn't GIVE any explanation; Statesman just did it.
For the sake of decent story-telling, which is what the "Who Will Die?" format suggests, there has to be decent exposition and pacing. If multiple replay value is desired, make that optional. But as it metaphorically stands, Pearl Harbor is bombed, the Marines appear on Guadalcanal, MacArthur returns to the Phillipines and Horoshima and Nagasaki are bombed and the surrender is signed, without any enlightenment on intervening thoughts or events. Mysterious baddie, Synapse has a scare, Numina has a scare, Alexis is dead, Manticore is a tool, Psyche is a rookie, Statesman is dead, ta-da.
If you do the Headlines Only style of story-telling, then even something like "Casablanca" or "The Princess Bride" will come off badly. Nobody cares what happens to cyphers. -
Quote:Good call.Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
We get all of the payoff, the climaxes of the story with none of the buildup of suspense that normally precedes any of them.
That's the biggest problem I have with people who say "Oh, just shut up and suspend your disbelief already!" We're not talking about suspension of belief, we're talking about story-telling...
As it stands, we have to imagine all of the substance of the story, ourselves. When we are left with that, we're left with 10,000 different versions of the story and a lot of hand-waving.
The lack of exposition is the most glaring flaw in the SSAs for sure. Had there been more exposition, it may have cured any number of the other problems. -
Quote:Consider just the isolated point as to how Statesman dies. He arrogantly WALKS into the obvious trap like a rookie chump, and upon the exhortation of his dead wife, he does not even struggle and just gives up and dies, letting the man who killed his daughter absorb the powers of Zeus. What is to admire about any of that??Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
The "Who Will Die?" storyline could have been told in a way that uplifted the Freedom Phalanx and finally showed us exactly what it was that made them the world's premier heroes, with us right alongside them, proving that we are now their equals. Instead, all this showed is that the Freedom Phalanx are not worthy of being the world's heroes.
Statesman's backstory was one of continually facing choices, but he ultimately chose to "do the right thing," even at great personal cost, and saved untold numbers of people. If Statesman was marked to die by the Devs, could we not at least have had a story that upheld the ideals he had previously demonstrated?
Just for a kick-off, why not have a couple of changes to the cutscene? Some plausible reason for Statesman to encounter the trap so that is not just right there screaming "TRAP" and he strolls in. Perhaps with Sister Psyche down, Wade could now pull off an illusion of Ms. Liberty captured and States HAS to brave the trap to save her. And even then, why not toss Statesman a bone or two? Since we were dialoguing anyway, Wade could be amazed that Statesman appears to be be pushing through, that anyone else would already be dead, that his Master Plan may go awry. The player could hear Statesman's thoughts that this is unlike anything he has ever encountered, it is real, searing, murderous pain, but he cannot give up, he must rescue "Jessica..." but he is literally burnt out as he finally reaches the illusion and collapses, a charred husk... and as Statesman dies, feeling that he has utterly failed, THEN Monica could assure him that his sacrifice will actually set in motion the defeat of Wade because another who had previously been in the background would now step forward to save the world as he had so often... there was nothing more he could have done, that he has done and given more than anyone would have ever thought of Marcus Cole... their granddaughter is actually alive, and will know what he did to "save" her and it will change how she thinks of him... take heart and comfort, it is the end of his burdens and the beginning of something else, this is indeed the time he was fated to join her. Something like that; I dunno. Troy Hickman can do this sort of stuff in his sleep and have it be GREAT. That is just one idea about how to do it and I am certainly not Shakespeare.
I could still admire a Statesman that died in that sort of manner. How difficult would it have been to do something like that?? His current send-off is hardly admirable at all.