Melancton

I think these are all valid points, and may in fact reflect what Paragon Studios is looking to accomplish. Yet...

The name of the TV show was "Columbo," not "Who Did It?" The title was not at odds with the way the show functioned. At least from my perspective, titling the series "Who Will Die?" and then revealing, OUTSIDE THE ARC, that Statesman is at least part of the answer to the question (others have noted there could be more than one "Who") is at odds with the expectations raised by the title. Even if the plan was to bump off multiple folks, the series could have been titled, "Death Comes To Paragon City" or some such. "Who Will Die?" and its initial campaign suggested that it was a mystery to be unraveled. Apparently not.

Just my thought. I would not have given it that title only to reveal things outside the arc.

/minor sidetrack

Hey Claws, thanks for your comment. As it turns out, I may be exactly with you in that I really like Christian Bale's Batman.

I specifically mentioned the Tim Burton movies as being the extreme. "Batman Begins," IMHO, hits the sweet spot for the character. While a tad dark, Batman is still ultimately a noble hero.

In the Burton vision, Bruce Wayne sleeps upside down like a bat, sends the Batmobile into Axis Chemicals to blow it and dozens of the Joker's minions to Kingdom Come and then rips off his hood to tell the clearly insane and murderous Catwoman, "We are alike. There is no difference between you and me." Yeah, okay, Tim, I GET IT ALREADY! Bruce Wayne snapped like a dry twig when his parents were murdered and now he is a bat, wreaking Gothic vengeance, blah blah blah. George Clooney was back to the mocking Batman with a Batcard, which he did not leave home without. Val Kilmer had the best portrayal of the first four flicks, but his film was burdened by the over-the-top acting by the villains, etc.

The bone I have to pick with Christian Bale is dropping the crime boss off the balcony, which I think was out of character with the first film. Your mileage may vary, but that is my take on the films; I do not like Burton's work. In fact, NOT killing Ra's al Ghul, which you cite, was a clear break in my view from the Burton vision and put Bale at #1.

/minor sidetrack

We now return to your regularly scheduled thread.

Eva, bless your wicked little villainous heart, you do make me chuckle.

Fortunately, you have only one writer to deal with.

Statesman is all over the waterfront, depending on who is writing him. I think Troy Hickman reflected the "official history" Statesman and added some depth, so I default to his portrayal when I consider "Statesman."

Couldn't the Devs just kill the Sentient Insane Possessing Well of Furies instead? The writing has been consistently bad since the Incarnate System debuted.

I think you eloquently explain the process I came down to as well. It has to be done with any number of superheroes now.

For me, Batman is somewhere between the extremes of the mocking dufus of the 1960s TV series and the insane psychopath vigilante murderer of Tim Burton's movies. Obviously, some disbelief has to be suspended; the usual route for folks that want to protect others would be to join the police force or the Army, etc. But why can't Bruce Wayne's motivation simply be a noble desire that no other child will see their parents murdered on his watch?

As I said, I default to the Hickman Statesman and ignore the StrawMan Statesman that other writers so enjoyed knocking down. You have pretty well called it.

Statesman is down. He is... dead.

Or IS he??

"Everyone will THINK you are dead, 007. They won't be looking for you." Yeah, it could even be something like that.

Blofeld: "We thought you were dead, Mr. Bond."

Bond: "Well, this is my second life."

Blofeld: "You Only Live Twice, Mr. Bond."

I tend to doubt it. I think the Devs are going the John Cleese route and States will, at the appropriate time, "get better." And Captain Renault will be shocked, shocked that there is gambling going on in this place.

Red Gren, this is a valid point, one that occurred to me at the outset. "Who Will Die?" It could be A, B and C, not just A. The Devs' announcement was couched in singular terms... but if "one" dies, that does not mean that ANOTHER might not die immediately thereafter.

And you are correct, the final product might be spectacularly great writing that has everyone admitting that they were sucked in when the Devs answered their own question in the middle of the arc. It was not just a Cheap Marketing Gimmick, it was actually Brilliant Misdirection! It could be Epic and Wonderful.

They could even wheel in a big cake and have Troy Hickman pop out shouting, "Ha ha, it was ME all along, you knuckleheads!" as we gasp and marvel at how "Who Will Die?" has eclipsed "Smoke and Mirrors" as the Greatest CoH Writing Ever...

Given the lore involving the Insane Sentient Possessing Well of Furies, though, I am not holding my breath.

Prove me wrong, Devs, PLEASE prove me wrong!

...suddenly, the Animator had a Fatal Heart Attack. The Beast disappeared. The Quest for the Holy Grail could continue.

Zwillinger Ex Machina FTW!

Captain! It's a Matter/Anti-Matter breach! I canna stop it! SHE'S GOING TO BLOW!

Dante, you may be technically correct in that the words, "I love Statesman" are rare as hens teeth, but I think there are a good deal of folks that of fond of the character overall. At least the character as presented in the background lore, as opposed to some arcs of the CoH comic in which he is depicted as an archetypal shouting despot and the Insane Sentient Possessing Well of Furies lore, in which he is pretty much a buffoon. Then again, I cannot say that I "love" ANY superheroes that I grew up with currently because of the direction that subsequent authors have taken them. I have stopped reading them. I thumbed through a Superman comic in the later 90s only to see Superman pull a man's heart out of his chest (killing him) and incinerate another with his heat vision (ditto). No thanks. I choose to keep Superman as he was in my youth, not as the angsty Postmodern attention-seekers have made him with endless retcons. That is true in varying degrees to all of the heroes I once did love.

The Devs ARE trying to emulate the attention and acclaim that has accompanied the deaths of DC and Marvel heroes. They do not care what that does to the quality of the story. I think that you are right in that they have poisoned the well by depicting Statesman as a jerk as often as they have. While a number of folks are unhappy to see Statesman die, there is a large and vocal contingent who are responding with "Good riddance!" The Devs have wanted it both ways, and as you have pointed out, they are hoist upon their own petard with a large section of their audience.

It pretty well seems that the Devs are announcing it in advance to attract attention, the way DC and Marvel have announced the "death" of characters to boost sales. (So far, those heroes, like John Cleese, all manage to "get better." Hmmm.)

Your point about spoilers pretty well sums it up. Part of what made "The Empire Strikes Back" such a great film was the very dark turns of the plot and the shocking surprises. (It was all chucked under the bus in "Return of the Jedi" as stuuuuuupid and perfunctory plot resolutions abounded while rainbows and unicorns sprouted and everyone sang Kumbayah, but that is another matter.) Plot spoilers stink. The Devs do not care--- they want the attention and "controversy." Broken foot, indeed.

Alas, the horrible writing in the Well of Furies lore spawns more bad writing leading to Statesman's death. BTW Azure, not YOUR writing-- you are just noting what the Devs have made a "fact."

I think you are spot on there. Troy Hickman's depiction of Statesman was one that had a lot of depth and potential. Troy's knack for scripting showed itself to best effect in that arc. The resolution was very moving-- hence the statue of Cyrus Thompson in-game. It was immediately washed away by the ham-handed writing in subsequent arcs showing Statesman as a petty, interrupting shouter, literally shown spewing spittle as he bellowed unreasonably at Manticore. As I have said before, in the background lore, 1,000 heroes willingly followed Statesman to what they knew would be almost certain death in the Alpha Gambit... and indeed, about 800 of them died. Nobody would follow Mr. ShutUpShutUpShutUp to the grocery store. It was abysmal writing.

I also think that Statesman dying falls under the "cheap gimmick" category, the same way killing Superman and Batman were handled. People slow down to look at traffic wrecks. Folks that would not read comics ordinarily apparently checked out Supes and Bats pushing up daisies, and that is what DC wanted. It is a gimmick for marketing, nothing more, and the dramatic quality of the piece be damned. And I also think that you are spot on that it is especially lousy writing to have an arc titled "Who Will Die?" and then ANNOUNCE THE ANSWER mid-way.

The Incarnate lore and mechanics have totally turned me off to them. That is okay, there is plenty of fun to be had in the 1-50 game. But it appears the same folks that gave us the Insane Sentient Possessing Well of Furies are now going to work their magic on the lore of all of the game. It will garner attention, no doubt, and that is what they want. Apparently Shakespeare should have titled any number of his plays, "______________ Dies!" because as we have learned, the mechanics of how it happens is what attracts people to the work. *groan*

Where there is a "shrieking eel" moment, there is usually a "Miracle Max" moment... one "woo hoo hoo, look who knows so much" and we are back in business. It will be such a surprise, too.

Fixed.

Your post is a slap in the face to definitions!!

What, he's going to glow in the dark?? Ooooooooooooooh, "powerful!"

Not to worry, it is being blurted out with no warning in unrelated threads.

Make sure to read the lore.

The jokes will write themselves.

Which reminds me of having the exit for the Really Cool Ride at the themepark exit through The Gift Shop.

This is pretty much what is unattractive about the trials for me. (The entire Incarnate lore has been tweaked until it is an utter turn-off already, but that is a different topic.)

My introduction to Hamidon raids was eased greatly by the organization, with a designated Leader using Binds to put forth instructions so that we knew what to do. When I did not comprehend why certain odd orders were given, I researched it on the Forums later. I made a cape-less costume, turned off my auras and ran in and out of the Goo as directed. My Grav Controller became my preferred Raider and by targeting through Singy and keeping an eye on his health, I escaped from the Hive alive during a Yellow Dawn three different times. I also amassed a LOT of HamiOs.

In the present, the Trials that I have gone on appear to have a very tightly-scripted sequence of objects and NPCs that need to be attacked, and the manner in which it is done must be carefully followed, else failure ensues. None of it is obvious from cues given during the Trial. In one of them, my attempt to figure out what was going on was hampered by the constant spamming of taunts by Praetor White as he one-shotted hapless players. It is utter chaos. I researched as best I could, but there lacked a strong leader given directions, and the failures were not surprising. Deviation from "The Sequence" results in failure.

tl;dr version: The Trials are very complicated in an arcane fashion and easy to fail without strong leadership, therefore they are not much fun.

even shorter: Moo, you are right, dude.

This thread is a slap in the face of... threads that slap in the face!

And shoot the messenger! AND the piano player!

THAT should teach you to try and be helpful!



(I dunno if I will ultimately play TW or not, but I snagged the freebie just in case. Thanks! )

Don't be sorry, Frostbiter; I am Eternally Grateful!