M_I_Abrahms

You must have missed that big thread a couple weeks ago. The one that finally decided that Heroes make more sense in the Isles than in Praetoria, as Recluse is actually the LESSER of two evils when compared to Tyrant.

Actually, it's not so much when you compare it to the incredible amount of ret-conning needed to make this an actual city, and not an MMO setting. Here's a list of stuff I regularly ret-con away:

Security/Threat Level
Combat level
trainers
contacts
security zones (thankfully lifted with I16)
ambient crime (would any hero be willing to pass blithely by several dozen muggings every day?)
everything remotely affected by Influence/Infamy

Compared to all this, ignoring the little window that tells you how you're role playing your character (essentially God Moding from the DM) isn't that big a stretch. And I wouldn't be surprised if I missed a couple of items

As far as I can tell, the only thing that really can't be done Blue side is have a character who's heroically standing against an Evil government. Well, that and play Red-side content. I can't speak for anyone else here, but in the past when I've talked to folks with Heroic Redsiders, it's mostly because they can't see themselves as the bad guy. I can think of three people off the top of my head in that state, and my flaxen haired Forum foe of late doesn't count, as she doesn't roll any other characters.


Warehouse district in a big city? It's actually not far off from some areas I've seen in my own life. There's a huge gap from the bad part of town, to a place where even the government is actively trying to crush your will, if not your lives. Recluse throws people into slums infested with contagious spider monsters! In even the darkest nooks of Paragon (again, not counting Dark Astoria) the police haven't completely given up, and there's always a Hero or three on patrol. Hell, even though I keep making exceptions for it, even Dark Astoria hasn't been completely abandoned. At least Heroes still head in there to keep the Monster population thinned out a bit.

(going to apologize here for this post. Just realized that it's like an hour past when I'm usually asleep, and I've been listening to the ranting reviewers I follow for the past couple hours or so, so the tone here may be adversely affected. I'm going to bed now.)

Ah, I see where I made my mistake. Sorry about the misunderstanding, but since the thread started out about existing Redside Heroes, when I read something about Going Rogue clearing the Rogue Isles of that kind of character, I made the assumption that you were talking about moving those characters.

And I can't really see that story in Paragon, since with the exception of Dark Astoria the entire city is a beacon of Heroism. The civilians AREN'T being crushed by an oppressive world. Certainly not to the extent of those in the Isles.

EDIT: So you know where I'm coming from, when you said this: That's what made me think you were talking about moving existing Redside heroes to Paragon.

Not trying to take this to a personal level, I'm talking purely about the character. Yes, I'll admit you can't be a Superman type of character, but it's not that much of a stretch to be a Punisher, Venom, or just a semi-decent person. That kind of character has seen the redeemable cowered masses being ground away under Arachnos and Operation: Destiny.

Let's say I was reading a comic book. The main character is a brutal murderer who has no problems with taking things that aren't his. The thing is, there's a group of people he's keeping safe and maybe even hidden from the rest of the city, and the people he's killing and stealing from would gladly do the same to the people the lead is protecting. People who, for whatever reason, can't defend themselves like the lead character can.

Now plot happens, and along the way, the lead character has a crisis of conscience about his methods. He adopts a less lethal method of crime fighting, and a greater respect for the law. And in doing so, he moves to a new city, with new friends and challenges. Now remember, the people he just left couldn't survive without his protection, either directly, or indirectly. If I were reading this book, such a character would actually be more heroic to me BEFORE the change, no matter how much like Superman they try to paint the after version.

Actually, it makes more sense for me for a True Villain to make the full transition to Hero over the "Redside Hero". The True Villain never actually saw the people of the Rogue Isles, even as he slaughtered them.

And as far as the hand waving goes, I already hand wave 80% of the game away because it's things that only work because this IS a game, so what's another 5% to ignore the text that God Modes your character.

Most assuredly not. However, most of the folks in this thread are used to him. It is his usual MO, actually. Every so often, he has a team that hits a rough spot, with varying grades of roughness, he comes to the boards to vent about it, and people swarm in to tell him whatever the problem is, it's all his fault. Repeat as needed.

As far as the actual topic goes, I'm counting myself among those that have no problem with playing how you want, but would like a warning on at least TF teams when someone is bringing something like a Tank without Mez protection, a Stalker without Assassin Strike, or a Force Fielder without Force Fields. Preferably BEFORE the TF actually starts so the rest of the team can adjust to accommodate said character.

Something about your stance really got under my skin, and it took me a while to figure out why. You're asking people who try to fly the Hero flag to do one of the most un-heroic things I can think of: Abandon people truly in need of help, just so the "Hero" themselves can be safe among allies.

There are still innocent people living in the Rogue Isles, and while Recluse may not allow their wholesale slaughter, he does NOTHING to protect them piecemeal. The Island Hero Is often doing anything he or she can to protect these people, trying to make their lives a little less harsh. And with the exception of less than half a dozen truly evil contacts, there's room enough in the CoV story to do so. And I wouldn't count the Patron Stories among that number, truth be told.

Let's put your Hero in their shoes, shall we? They were either born and raised in a hive of scum and villainy, or by some nature have adopted such a place, and the downtrodden within, as their home. Now they face the choice, do they:

A) Leave, and become just another soldier in a veritable army of Heroes. An army with numbers enough that they can easily blanket their city even without your character and NONE of which have the power or authority to help the people he left

B) Remain, and scratch out what good they can, while being forced to do vile things just to survive.

C) Stay true to their home, but offer to help the Army of Heroes should the need arise.

Sam, you seem to be advocating the first choice, but something tells me the second or third choice will be more likely.

Well, first off remember that a number of these Heroic Islanders were made well before the Going Rogue Reveal, some as far back as CoV's release. So several of these characters were probably 50 LONG before we had the first hint that Side switching was being seriously considered, much less imminent.

There are also folks who enjoy playing 'good people in a bad world'. I can think of a couple right off the top of my head, but the best example is from a fellow Protectorite: His Villain was actually framed for the crime that landed him in the Zig. It's been a while since I read that character's background, but I do remember Crey somehow experimented on him while in the prison, giving him powers while horribly disfiguring him. When Arachnos showed up, it gave the character a chance to be a free man again, but only in the Isles.

Now a fugitive from his home, and surrounded by Evil the character has to make some tough choices to survive. He doesn't want to rule the world, he doesn't want to hurt anyone, he doesn't even like Recluse or Arachnos. However, he doesn't want to be eaten alive by the people he's surrounded by, and he can't go home again. And while he's there, he can bring a little hope to the lives of the innocents who cower in fear of the monsters in their home, because they have no where else to go, either. Consider the Civic squad, not everyone who calls the Isles home is beneath contempt.

If this character was rolled up in Paragon, none of this would be possible. He couldn't be a fugitive from the law, because he would be fighting along side both the PPD and Longbow. There would be no tough choices, because he would be surrounded by friends, not enemies. He certainly wouldn't be a lone light to the downtrodden in CoH, because there are thousands of Heroes in that City making even the darkest ally in Paragon a damn sight brighter than any place in the Rogue Isles. (aside from Dark Astoria, that is)

I've seen a bit of that already running it through the narrow paths. Part of the problem seems to be that it's two speed settings (full stop and haul ***) not to mention that the car seems to be made of aluminum foil for all the weight it apparently has.

And we have a character name folks! I'm thinking Sonic/Traps.

(Blammos!)

No, he's not complaining that the mission set to +3 is too hard, the rest of the mission was exactly the difficulty that they wanted, challenging, without being futile debt farming.

The complaint is that the cyst was significantly harder than the rest of the mission, to the point where the team wiped several times taking down the Cyst. The problem is that the team is left with the three options I listed above; ban Kheldians from joining the team, play much lower than their preferred settings in case a Cyst spawns, or play at the preferred settings knowing that the team-wiping cyst is imminent.

Given these choices, which would you suggest?

Minor accuracy adjustment. That map is a bigg'n.

Well, if I may play devil's advocate for a sec, you kinda did ask for the change when you sent that invite. Any team in your position has three choices:

1) Keep at the current settings, and accept that they WILL get stomped hard when the Cyst shows up.
2) Drop the difficulty and hope a Cyst shows up for that one fight that's at the difficulty the team was looking for.
3) Don't invite the Squid.

They just need to figure out which one is the least unappealing.

Same here. Of course I'm to the point where I run on character name over even thir Global name, so there's that as well.

This has been a very interesting thread for me, as I've seen the "women don't do that" mentality a lot. What's been confusing me lately is that a fair portion of people with this mentality fly the feminist flag.

It really blew my mind when the Walk power was revealed for this game. Actually seeing people say that the female walk was something "only a prostitute would do" was something I can not understand. So, guys can can swagger and strut, but if a woman does the same, then she must be a call girl? And this by people who claim to represent a mentality based on equality of the sexes?

I have.

Not in those words, of course, but I have seem folks say that if a team can't handle a sudden jump in difficulty an order of magnitude higher than what they were set to, then they clearly don't know how to play City of Heroes.

Of course, it gets worse when it turns out the team was riding the challenge edge already, enjoying a bit of risk to their game when they get hit with it. The worst part is seeing people say: "well, if the cyst is such a problem, you shouldn't run at that difficulty."

Really? If a team runs with a Kheld, they should be set to candy *** difficulty, just to make sure that the cysts that may or may not show up are set to the difficulty they were looking to enjoy for the entire map without the squid present?

What about Winston?

Actually, the two zones are on opposite sides of Perez, so that hurdle probably should be crossed first.

Because Port Oaks and Cap au Diable are on the same Island.