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Quote:I think what we've seen of Daryl shows us that he's generally just a more thoughtful, level-headed person than his brother Merle. It'll be interesting to see what kind of relationship they had as brothers (and no, I don't mean the "Ewwww" kind of relationship this time) and whether or not their time apart has made Daryl more independent and less likely to agree with Merle's craziness.There's a lot we don't know about the Merle/Daryl dynamic. Did they get along at all? Was Daryl just incensed about Merle being left behind because that's who Daryl is vs. actually caring about Merle? Is there something more, like Lothic pointed out in that double entendre? (One word: Ewwww!)
Depending on the types of neighborhoods he was working in before the ZA maybe being a pizza delivery guy was actually good training for Glenn's scavenging missions.Quote:You gotta give [Glenn] props though; he was making solo trips into Atlanta. That takes some courage, to keep going back to a zombie wasteland.
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Quote:Well not to take anything away from the moment of passion they shared but my guess is that Glenn, in all his youthful excitement, probably didn't "last" too long if you catch my drift. Sure it was a little silly for them to do it right in the middle of a public place where they might be attacked by some zombies, but then again it wasn't like they probably spent more than a few wild minutes at it anyway.Did anyone else find the "love" scene strange? Im also a big fan of heat of the moment, bedroom type activites, but getting it in on the floor of isle #2 of a store with the front windows knocked out and not having (I dont think) cleared the rear entrance/area?

It's always a bit weird to hear British/Aussie actors in interviews fall back into their natural accents when you've only heard them do their American accents for a character in an American show. I could rattle off a bunch of those types such as Jamie Bamber (Capt. Apollo in NuBSG), Craig Horner (Richard Cypher in Legend of the Seeker) and even Ryan Kwanten (Jason Stackhouse from True Blood). There seems to be so many of them it sometimes makes me wonder if America actually won that revolution back in the 18th century or not.Quote:sidenote - Is it just me that always finds it amazing when British/Australian/Irish etc actors step on the scene in a US production and sound just like theyre "one of us"? Ive heard Rick and Maggie both do interviews now and theyre very British if Im not mistaken. Jolly good stuff.
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Quote:If you're willing to make a distinction between "syndrome" WIR and "non-syndrome" WIR then I'm fine with that. But I'm also willing to bet that no one typically cares about splitting hairs over the "non-syndrome" version of this thing when it comes to any extended discussions about this. Even the OP's post was pretty clearly leaning towards the "syndrome" WIR version of this idea. *shrugs*Agreed, and I actually mention that in a couple of my posts here. I guess I'm specifcally referring to the "WiR Syndrome" outlined in reference to the actually more broad idea of WiR outlined on the WiR website.
Agreed. This all originated in my reply to Smersh's post, which was specifically describing the "syndrome" version of the meme.
The eponymous Green Lantern issue (like the SSA) qualifies as both. Perhaps that name for the meme has taken a life of its own as the "syndrome" sub-version.
As I already mentioned in prior posts, whether the broader "non-syndrome" WiR is indicidive of societal misogyny I am less willing to argue. That comes down to whether female characters as a whole are more likely to have bad things happen to them, as well as what the nature of those bad things are, and whether or not they tend to be inflicted by men. I do think, however, that's complicated to separate from what I'll call the "syndrome" version's "fair use" and the tendency for lead characters to be male. While both indicate disparity in gender representation, and therefore may be related, they have rather different undertones. -
Quote:I've read back-n-forth debates on this subject for years. The people who've been involved in these debates have ranged in "authority" all the way from famous authors down to rabid fanbois. I can easily accept that you have no obligation to accept my conclusions on this matter. But I can ease your mind by saying that people who know more about this subject than either of us are going to be making points similar to both yours and mine for a long time to come.Citation required. I'd like some evidence that this is actually an accepted understanding of it, rather than simply some people's interpretation of it.
Um, I seriously don't see that following logically at all. Without context, the name is actually pretty damn confusing. They picked a particularly striking example of the meme and named it after that. There was nothing sexual about the example, unless you hold that every act of bare-handed violence by a man against a woman is sexual - a notion that I reject. If, lacking context, someone thinks the name of the meme is sexually charged, I think that's because they imagined it meant something it didn't.
Apparently only because you say so. Sorry, not buying into that.
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Quote:The only reason the WIR meme exists as meme which has been debated for decades at all has been because there has always been an undercurrent of misogyny associated with how it's been applied to various stories. If we were just talking about a meme that had no loaded sexual connotations to it it would not be (rather dramatically) called the "woman in refrigerator" meme. Even the name of the meme itself is full of shock value designed to spur on exactly this kind of dissent and debate.That's obviously false. It is a death (generally, other bad things might apply) that happens to a female character for the express purpose of providing character development or plot action by a male character. The reason for why something bad happened to the female is expressly because she has a relationship to the male.
That is not vaguely defined, and it does not apply to females killed "for any reason".
No, only how it relates to the development of the story defines whether the meme applies. How the story handles it is a separate question.
Show me a quote from the people who have assembled documentation on the meme showing something to the contrary if you want to debate that. I am taking that as one of two major categories of the meme from online sources about the meme, including the WiR website.
Your attempt to disassociate the sexual undercurrents from the meme itself is admirable but ultimately futile. -
Quote:This is pretty much exactly how I felt about this SSA. My feelings of being irked about being forced to care about a character I was barely aware of far outweighed any feelings of concern over whether or not this story was a legitimate example of the WIR meme. *shrugs*Frankly I don't know, and don't particularly care (since I don't actually read superhero comics). The view from where I sit is that the devs wrote an arc killing off a a minor character and expect me to care. The gender of the character is largely irrelevant to that, I'm just irritated by them killing someone off and expecting me to care when they've given me no reason to care about the character in question. The emotional impact of the arc is roughly equivalent to Red Shirt #5 dieing in an episode of Star Trek.
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Quote:I think your definition of the WIR meme is so vaguely defined that it could literally apply to any story that has both males and females in it and one of those females is killed for any reason. A meme only really has meaning when it's used to describe something that's uniquely distinct from some other aspect of a story. If you let it apply to effectively every story imaginable then it fails to serve any purpose as a point of distinction.I just don't buy into the idea that how their deaths are handled is a part of the meme. I believe the meme describes any case where a female character is killed to trigger a developmental shift in a male character. How well it's handled simply doesn't apply. You can have a case of WiR that's well written into the story, a case where it's not, and everything in between.
Similarly, while I believe the "movement" (such as it might be) behind this meme are concerned that the prevalence of this meme may indicate misogyny, I believe whether it's handled in a misogynistic way is also separate from the meme itself, particularly in cases of supporting characters, like those we've been focusing on. What's done to lead female characters, independent of their relationship to a male character, is perhaps worthy of separate debate. (This from the Wikipedia quote about the meme applying to "depowering" or eliminating female characters.)
I think you do in fact have to consider whether there's at least some element of misogyny involved before you can lump every "female death" story into the realm of the WIR meme. How the death is "handled" is an intrinsic part of the meme. The problem, which this ongoing thread so adequately shows us, is that the degree of how much misogyny is involved in a given story is often a very debatable point. -
Quote:Double entendres are fun aren't they?Merle, who has been tracking the group, finds the girl in the woods while she was making her way back to the highway. He manages to cover up his tracks well enough to keep them guessing while he waits for the oportune moment to get some quality time with his brother.
There, that's two birds, one stone.
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The only "negative meme" I saw in this SSA was that they handled the death of a character in a relatively clumsy and ham-fisted way. If that means you can (or want to) shoehorn the WIR meme into this situation to help explain what was essentially just a badly handled comic book story (regardless of the sex of the characters involved) then have fun with that. Personally I don't see any need to add this arc to the overall controversy surrounding that decades-debated issue. *shrugs*
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It's funny but a lot of the terms people use for things like this kind of depend on whether you were more of an original redside player or blueside player. There was a time when City of Heroes and City of Villains were far more seperated than they are now and some people still consider themselves primarily redside or blueside only players.
Case in point I started playing this game back long before City of Villians existed so I got used to calling it "exing" or "exemping down" (for blueside exemplaring). TBH even though I've been playing this game for over 7 years and have run at least a dozen villains in that time I still didn't instantly recongize/remember what you meant by your "mal" term myself.
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Quote:Unless Merle has been following the group this whole time. Maybe he set up the attack at the camp and set that herd in their general direction. If he was sneaky enough to get out of Atlanta in one piece, who knows?I could see Merle being angry and crazy enough to want to get revenge on most of the main characters but would that include his brother Daryl too? I suppose he could have gone so far off the deep end that he might not care about getting his brother killed as well. *shrugs*Quote:Ive read on other sites theories that Merle will show up as a certain "big bad" type character that was in the Comic. (trying to avoid spoilers)
As for Merle becoming a "big bad" of the show I guess we'll start to find out next episode if that's where things are leading.
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I've pretty much given up on this latest "fad" of 3D movies. They just seem to bring it back every 5 or 10 years in a continuing attempt to make it work. Don't get me wrong - they do keep making improvements in the technology and maybe in a few more decades it'll finally be commonplace and non-annoying.
But I might be willing to see something like Harold and Kumar in 3D as long as they don't take the 3D "seriously" and make fun of it by doing a bunch of dumb spoofy gimmicks with it.
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I had fun playing around with the dog last night on the Beta server. The Devs released the German Shepherd, the Autumn aura and the Pilgrim hat for limited testing last night. Since we got the aura today, and more than likely they'll save the Pilgrim hat for release on Nov 22nd (for Thanksgiving) maybe that means we'll get the dog next week.
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Quote:I don't think many of these characters are -willingly- working for the Evil Queen. For one reason or another they may have no real choice in the matter.I love that OUaT is doing back and forth between story book land and Storybrook. I hope they keep that up. I am kind of disappointed that so many good story book characters seem to be working for the Evil Queen like Doc and Jimmie Cricket.
Remember the world of Storybrook is kind of like the Matrix designed to benefit the Evil Queen so naturally everything (and everyone) in the town is geared towards her will and her control. I think what we'll find is that as the show goes on more and more of the characters will turn against the "Madame Mayor" as her control over her cursed world begins to crumble. -
Quote:This at least seems plausible given what we know. It would "explain" Merle being there and conclude the Sophia arc of the story.My prediction...
Daryl gets hurt looking for Sophia by falling down a muddy hill and getting one of his arrows poked into himself. Daryl, low on blood, halucinates and sees Merle.
The halluciMerlation somehow results in Daryl finding Spohia and together they are able to get back to the group.
Daryl gets some kind of closure with Merle through the hallucinations, and Sophia is found and reunited with the group. -
Quote:I can accept that Daryl could come up with the Cherokee Rose story as a method to comfort Carol in her time of despair. But I just can't wrap my head around the idea of him using that story as a means to report that he knows for a fact that Sophia is dead. He just seems far too "down to Earth" and practical to be vague during a time when he would have direct news to deliver.Because I think he feels pretty bad about it, and what he may have had to do and he doesn't want to break the news to her in such a harsh and realistic way. So, he tells the story about the Trail of Tears and brings her a Cherokee Rose that will represent Sophia eternal presence. He even leaves with that comment about how Sophia will "like it there". I think it's his way of saying, "I'm sorry, but your daughter is dead. I found the body." without having to actually come right out and say it. Besides, I think Carol understood what he was saying. The look on her face was on of sad gratitude. She knows Sophia is gone and Daryl just confirmed it. The one person in the group that was absolutely adamant that they would find her and she'd be OK.
I just have to see this thing from my own personal point of view: if I knew for a fact that a mother's child was dead in this kind of situation and I was going to have to be the one to tell that mother that sad news I wouldn't use a vague anecdote, I would plain direct language. I simply can't imagine Daryl not being up-front about it. -
I'm sure they could explain how Merle finds the group if that's what the storywriters want to do, and the writing on the windshield could be one way to explain it. Still, I think that'd be pushing it just a bit as far as "pure luck" goes. Obviously we'll find out next week one way or the other.
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Quote:I'm willing to accept that's a remote possibility. But I also expect the brewing drama between Rick, Lori and Shane is probably going to be able to explode eventually regardless if you throw in the idea that Rick was "snipped" or not.I don't know. I could see this playing out as follows:
Lori finds out she's pregnant.
We find out Rick was fixed, so it can't be his.
Jenner's secret to Rick was that Lori was pregnant.
Rick has been in denial and didn't say anything to her.
Lori confesses to Rick about sleeping with Shane and the pregnancy.
It all comes to a head. Drama ensues between Rick and Shane. -
Quote:The mere fact of adding an entire new contact to the game could have had the potential to "break" something as well. I remain unconvinced that it was "easier" to add an entirely new contact with new options to the game than it would have been to add a few new options to the Options Menu, something they have ALREADY DONE many times before.Given that Null added himself to the game the first time he appeared, I'd say it's not that hard at all.

But seriously... Messing with the UI gives them a chance to break the UI. The choice to turn these effects off was put in quickly. Null was a way to put them in with less chance of something going wrong than trying to quickly add in changes to the UI, as minor as they may be. He doesn't seem all that different than a difficulty adjustment NPC in terms of how he works, they just changed what settings he adjusts and the other differences are all cosmetic and text. There's still a chance that they could have messed something up, but it was less of a chance and took less programmer time to do it.
All that having been said, I do hope they add these things to the full UI menu sometime, but keep Null around to talk with. -
Quote:I've been a software engineer for almost 20 years. I can smell "Dev BS" a mile away. Trust me when I say dreaming up conspiracy theories isn't my game these days either. *shrugs*Believe it. Or not. Conspiracy theories aren't my game these days

I've watched the Devs add dozens of new options to the Options Menu over the years. If it was -actually- hard to do that then why was it so easy for all those other options?
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Quote:People have been suggesting that they "replace" things like Group Fly with "better" powers for close to 8 years now.Maybe we should get to a more important underline issue. Why are "group fly" and "team TP" even still in the game anyway.
Face it, it's not going to happen.
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Quote:As I recall the Devs explaining it when Null first came out, changing the UI and the options menu is not only difficult given the peculiar way Cryptic coded the game originally, but requires noticeable amounts of programmer time: they can't just slip it into a list of menu options, and post the patch.
However, planting an NPC with said options only requires the tools that were developed when AE came out, and are used to create the new mission content: easyActually I'm not convinced it would be difficult for the Devs to put new options in the Options Menu at all. In fact if you've paid attention our Devs have added new options to the Options Menu relatively regularly for years now.Quote:That's the exact reason Null the Gull exists - to put the features out before having to wait for the UI team to address putting the features in the Option menu. I'm hoping for some serious overhauls with the UI (given Null and the Powers menu mentioned in another thread), but in the mean time, we can talk to the bird.
Basically if the Devs have ever told anyone that it would be "hard" to put these specific kinds of options in the Options Menu then that was their roundabout way of telling us they don't WANT to do that, not that they CAN'T do that. In fact if you wanted to be picky about this it was probably "harder" to put Null the Gull into the game (from a software point of view) than it would have been to have simply added new options in the existing Options Menu.
No, they isolated these several options to Null the Gull to do just that - isolate them from the "normal" options because they still don't really actually want to accept these compromises as mainstream features. The Devs clearly fought the idea of giving us ways to avoid things like SB and Group Fly for years because people have been suggesting that forever. They only just recently decided to give us a way to do it via Null the Gull. But just because they reluctantly decided to give us options to do that doesn't mean they had to make those options easy to use or widely-obvious. Thus Null the Gull.
Once again it'd be nice if the Devs eventually accepted these options as legitimate and decided to put them in the Options Menu to make them easy to use. But frankly I'm not expecting that to happen anytime soon and, as I've explained, I understand why they did it the way they did. *shrugs* -
Quote:I can understand why the Devs decided to implement this thing like this. I'm not saying I AGREE with it - I'm just saying I think I know why they did it like this.This....this is a thing? Like, the devs thought this was a good idea?

Basically the Devs consider the options Null the Gull provides sort of almost like "not ready for prime time" test features. I'm convinced that they are NOT convinced that these options are actually important enough or mainstream enough to make them more fundamental to the game. This is the reason why they are not part of the main options menu and might never be. By keeping them isolated to Null the Gull it would be very easy, if needed, to yank them back out of the game by simply removing Null from Pocket D.
Null the Gull is a convenient method for the Devs to offer these options as a sort of trial balloon for people who really want them. I actually believe the Devs DON'T actually want us to have a way to avoid SB or Group Fly for instance but were willing to offer the compromise of Null the Gull for those people willing to figure it out and go through the motions of having to go to Pocket D to take advantage of them.
Null the Gull is essentially a semi-secret access point that let's the Devs firmly control the questionable (at least to them) options being provided. I agree it's annoying to have to work it this way, but I honestly don't see it changing anytime soon. *shrugs*
