Lothic

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Having earned the Fabricator badge twice using methods that heavily leveraged the way Base Salvage could be used all I'd suggest to people who are still working it this way to hurry up and finish it before I13 potentially makes it much harder and/or costly.

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So what we're going to do is we're going to get rid of the Base Salvage, and just make everything that's currently craftable in the bases from salvage, craftable through that Invention Salvage as well.


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Call me crazy, I like the idea of using one set of salvage for bases, IO's, and empowerment stations. Should be easier to get the Fabricator badge.

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I never said I was really -against- the idea of streamlining the game to use only one kind of salvage. That's a completely different topic which I happen to agree with. The game probably should have only had one kind of salvage to begin with.

But like I said I've actually earned 2 Fabricator badges under the current system using combinations of base and invention salvages. Forgive me if I think I have a clue about this situation.

Currently invention salvage is typically more expensive to buy and tends to be less available than the kinds of base salvage typically involved in the faster methods of Fabricator efforts. By removing an entire class of salvage and making the remaining class of salvage take on "double-duty" it is VERY LIKELY that the people who need huge amounts of salvage for the Fabricator badge will have to pay more for it and have less of it to work with for their purposes.

The point is Fabricator is relatively easy to get right now BECAUSE there are two vast types of salvage and the ways they work together. Reducing the total kinds of salvage available will make doing ANYTHING with it harder, not easier.

Fabricator will of course still be earnable post I13.
But given what I know I can virtually assure you it's easier and cheaper to earn right now than it WILL be.
Thus my suggestion to people to finish it up while they can.

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Will invention salvage be storeable in the salvage racks in bases?

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This is what I'd like to know. With the current system, people in my SG who have no interest in crafting can drop their Base salvage in storage, and once enough of it piles up, I get my precious credit towards the Fabricator badge by refining the salvage.

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Regardless of the 'storage' question it's good to see that I wasn't the only person to realize that the "removal" of Base Salvage might dramatically change the better strategies for earning the Fabricator badge.

Having earned the Fabricator badge twice using methods that heavily leveraged the way Base Salvage could be used all I'd suggest to people who are still working it this way to hurry up and finish it before I13 potentially makes it much harder and/or costly.

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I think people are missing the boat on the jetpack boosters. I will not only buy it (as soon as I figure out why the payment screen only wants Visa when all my CCs are Mastercards and I swear I've used them before*?), but I wish I could set it on auto-renew.

$4.99 a month to have two more powers on each character rather than spending two power selections on travel? For how I play, and the enjoyment I'll get out of it, totally worth it. Usually I make sure to get the two temp powers from the mayhems and milk them as long as I can (and maybe the Goldbrickers jetpack too) and then respec into travel when they wear out.

Lovelovelovelove and $$,

Pheret1

*aaaah, noscript, how I both love and hate thee. all set now

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I don't think I'm "missing the boat" on how you intended to use these things.
I just respectfully suspect most people will not consider them to be worthwhile in the long run. *shrugs*

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I really don't think the games management thinks these things will be a big seller. It seems more like tossing a bone out to those who felt slighted because they couldn't have the 30-day pack unless they bought a time-card they couldn't use.

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QFT - this is the reason they're even being offered.

~MM

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It's a reasonable theory that's just been verified by Lighthouse directly.

Of course I feel slighted because they're being offered as rentable powers instead of permanent costume items. I guess the old adage that "you can't please everyone" is true in this case...

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Cyborg includes an extensive costume set

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Is there any chance that the costume pieces will eventually be offered as Veteran Rewards?

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Doubtful. I recall Rednames mentioning things that you have to initially pay extra for like in these in booster packs would probably never find their way to becoming "free" Vet Awards.

[EDIT] Techno_Viking just told you the specific reason why. [/EDIT]

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Can you purchase the jet pack again once your 30 days runs out? Just wondering, I wont buy it(looks like fun but its to easy to get them in bank mishs and getting to lvl 14 is also easy).

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Not only -can- you rebuy this $4.99 jetpack again after your first 30 day period expires but that is apparently exactly what the Devs seem to be hoping that we will do with this.

I actually have no problem giving the Devs all kinds of money for all kinds of extras... permanent extras.
It's just something about 'renting' items or powers that really bothers me.

Bought my Cyborg booster pack as planned.

While I'm sure the Devs may sell a few of the temporary jetpacks I'm not going to bite for that one. Had the Devs decided to make it a permanent costume item instead of a rentable flight power they would have had another $4.99 out of me instantly. I will always be willing to buy any permanent booster pack the Devs offer for this fine game. But something about toying with 'rentable' powers just rubs me the wrong way. Consider this a vote against that kind of scheme for the future...

More like, "Wow, this forum has formal rules?"
I guess common sense just doesn't go as far as it used to.
I suppose whoever wrote those up had to do something to get paid at one point...

P.S.
Obviously I know this forum has rules.
This post is what some people call "social commentary".
It's just kind of sad we have to be reminded that there -are- rules every once in a while.

The idea of shifting the CoV helmets down to the currently effectively "empty" 45 month Vet award is an excellent suggestion. That probably should have been a no-brainer in the first place if they really didn't have any other better idea for the 45th month award.

As far as the 51 and 54 monthers go they could still let us choose more Vet attack powers as long as they give us more choices to choose from.

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Whta I've suggested in the past is that the devs make a "veteran melee power pool" and a "veteran ranged power pool" and add powers to each as necessary. Make the veteran rewards grant one choice from the appropriate pool. So if they decide to add some new snazzy veteran attack, newer players will still have a shot at them before they grow old and die. The advantage older players will have is that they will have more *selections* but not necessarily a better set of selections which means there is less of a problem adding overly interesting veteran attacks.

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And Arcanaville grand slams another... Folks, it doesnt get any better than this!


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Well Arcanaville might have thought of this idea in the past but for what it's worth I effectively re-mentioned it just a few posts ago this morning:

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If both the 12 and 33 month Vet awards had given us say 5 choices each instead of only 2 then there would be much more variety for character concepts...

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I'll be gracious enough to concede him credit for calling them Vet power pools.

Well I think the write-up of the Vet award makes it pretty clear you can't double up on any of these powers.
If you could then I'd imagine practically everyone would have 2 Vet Nemesis Staves at 54 months.

It's more than simply being not as "interesting" as previous awards.
It's virtually guaranteeing every character concept imaginable will have many identical powers.
That's fine for Rest, Sprint and Brawl. But do we need potentially up to 6 cookie-cutter powers?

I understand strictly speaking not everyone is going to pick the same 3 Vet powers.
But mathematically speaking there will only be 4 possible combos of 3 picks for anyone.
I just don't like the idea of every character eventually becoming that much more predictably identical.

Bottomline we need a bigger pool of powers to choose from for the 12, 33 and/or 54 month Vet awards.

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Way to add new content to long playing Heroes devs!! Really is this what you come up with? just reusing the same stuff... yawn. I am not impressed and vary disappointed. It looks like we don't have much to look forward too.

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I understand and basically agree with the "Meh" sentiment.

As far as the helmets ago we were told from the beginning that we would eventually have another way to get them. They were never going to be "permanently" exclusive. Since the Prestige Sprints were offered as Vet awards it seemed pretty likely that these helmets would go the same way sooner or later. It was never really a matter of 'if' but only of 'when' it was going to happen. Now was 51 months too long to wait for something we all knew was pretty much inevitable? Maybe. *shrugs*

As for the opportunity to choose another Vet attack power I like the basic idea behind that. It is a little more fair for older and newer players alike because we can choose what power we want when we want it. The only problem with it is that we only have 4 powers to choose from in the first place. The pool of choices for doing this is far too limited to work well. With only 4 possible powers what this means is that it's very likely every kind character out there is going to have the same 3 identical powers whether they're an android, a wizard, a telekinetic alien or a Karate expert. If both the 12 and 33 month Vet awards had given us say 5 choices each instead of only 2 then there would be much more variety for character concepts by the time a character could have 3 of those 10 at the 54th month.

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Open beta: one week :O

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This is good news for many reasons. Clearly they feel the closed beta is progressing smoothly enough that they are comfortable with that kind of relatively long term public prediction/announcement. There have been previous open betas we got basically no warning about.

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FAQ states:

Q: Does the free month that was included with my game purchase count towards my reward time?

A: Yes.

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But Ex Libris drives home the fundamental point here:
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The four year live Anniversary of the game is April 28th, folks that have seen this badge prior to this date are encountering something that is not intended.

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Ah, had not seen this post from Ex Libris, thanks.

In light of this, I propose a new position for NC Soft - The Continuity Coordinator. This person will keep a player from getting caught between a FAQ and a hard case. I feel retconned - minus the ret.

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The Devs really just need to fix it so that their anniversary dates actually mean something. As it is now many people currently get these awards either weeks or months AHEAD of when they should or weeks or months AFTER they should. The award dates for many are basically randomly scattered all over the calendar.

What I've come to understand about Vet Awards is that it's not entirely based how many months you have personally either paid for or gotten for free. What also factors into it is the actual physical months that have passed. The actual passage of time is just as important as the money paid if that makes any sense.

So given that point of view it makes perfect sense that NO ONE should be awarded the 48 month Vet badge until at least 48 months have actually passed in the history of the game being live or in their history with the game.

Hope that helps sort things out.

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FAQ states:

Q: Does the free month that was included with my game purchase count towards my reward time?

A: Yes.

I've purchased and have active on my account:
Retail Apr 29, 2004
DVD Nov 12, 2004
Preorder Oct 26, 2005
Collector Nov 1, 2005
City of Heroes® Good Versus Evil Special In-Game Item Pack Oct 5, 2006
City of Heroes® Wedding Pack Feb 14, 2008

Now I'm pretty sure one of those came with one month of game time, so shouldn't my reward be coming March 29th? If not, what 'game purchase' came with a free month?

(Note: There's a separate issue with some of the purchase dates that I know to be incorrect, but assuming the dates never change...)

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You're incorrect. If you purchased and activated a code on April 29th 2004, your first billing date was not until May 29th, 2004.

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The Collector purchase on Oct 1, 2005 comes with a free month. I pay 6 or 12 months at a time and have since I started playing. According to the FAQ, that month of free time is credited toward rewards and according to PlayNC the free time is tacked onto the end, not the beginning (since I've already paid). I couldn't honestly tell you if I paid my first sub before or after my initial 30 free days in April, but that still leaves the Collector's edition 30 days unaccounted for as far as vet rewards go.

I'm thinking the FAQ Q&A is just worded poorly, but it reads as though that free month should count toward my reward time.

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I agree completely that the FAQ/documentation about how Vet Award time works is confusing at best and many people have many theories about it.

But Ex Libris drives home the fundamental point here:
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The four year live Anniversary of the game is April 28th, folks that have seen this badge prior to this date are encountering something that is not intended.

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Regardless of whatever preorder/free time anyone has ever gotten from any game purchase the simple fact is that April 28, 2008 IS the Dev-defined 4th anniversary date, period. No one should have the 48 month Vet Award prior to this date AT ALL. That is pretty easy to understand. Despite what the FAQ says Free Time does NOT apparently count towards Vet Time. They are two seperate values.

Now just because so many people do get lucky and get these awards before the official anniversary dates doesn't really make it right. It just means the Devs have a lot of holes in their accounting system they either can't or won't fix. Have fun with it if you are one of those lucky people.

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Open all zones to both sides.

Create a new PvE structure that allows people to "fight" (as in oppose by means other than combat) the other faction.

Example, Longbow creates bases in all Villain zones and gives sabotage and liberation missions to heroes. Arachnos creates similar bases in Paragon and gives villains an opportunity to do what they do best.

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No

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Immersion is an "argument" that people throw out anytime they want to poo poo an idea without feeling the need to actually use reason.

There are literally hundreds of things in this game that break "immersion" that no one seems to have any problem with. So using that argument smacks to me of desperation. Because if we're really concerned about "immersion" then can someone explain to me why villains can't just go to Paragon City when they want to?

What actually stops them from going? Why doesn't that break your precious "immersion"?

Another thing, why can't my 48 Brute get newspaper missions in Mercy or even St. Martial? It's "beneath my notice" is immersion breaking. I'm a villain, I don't care about fair fights. But I don't see anyone screaming about that.

Immersion = Bullpoo

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I have never had any problem whatsoever with CoV getting more zones whether that means getting access to existing CoH zones or a bunch of brand new CoV only ones. I don't see it happening anytime soon, but I'm not against the idea.

But what I do have trouble with are people who who cry for villains to have access to all CoH zones but then turn right around and scream bloody murder when someone suggests heroes get access to all CoV ATs and/or Powersets.

Which way is it going to be people?
Keep the the current strict status quo of division between the two sides...
or allow everything on both sides to be shared equally?

Now to be crystal clear I personally don't want all CoV ATs/Powersets accessible in CoH.
More like I couldn't care less really. Let's just say I wouldn't quit the game if it happened.
But I do know SOME people want that just like SOME people want all CoH zones accessible to villains.

If we as players are to seriously consider the idea of all zones being available to all heroes and villains then you have to be willing to accept other equalities like all ATs/Powersets being available to all heroes and villains. To not be willing to be open to all possibilities such as this is the height of hypocrisy.

How can you have equality in one area of this game without at least being able to be willing to accept equality being applied in all areas?

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Open all zones to both sides.

Create a new PvE structure that allows people to "fight" (as in oppose by means other than combat) the other faction.

Example, Longbow creates bases in all Villain zones and gives sabotage and liberation missions to heroes. Arachnos creates similar bases in Paragon and gives villains an opportunity to do what they do best.

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I'm not against this idea in principle.

But frankly you are talking about such a fundamental restructuring of PvP here that this might be better served being applied to CoH2 rather than trying to suggest that for this game.

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Heroes have zones that they rarely use... villains don't have a lot of zones and seems Village like... hmmm...

How about taking a few of those zones and converting em to VILLAIN zones!

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Well converting CoH only zones to CoV only zones will pretty much never happen.
At best converting CoH only zones to co-op ones is all we are likely to see.

The most obvious (and often suggested) 'fringe' CoH zones to make co-op for heroes and villains would be the Shards. The amount of Dev work needed for that would be very minimal. After that isolated zones like Croatoa, Boomtown and Dark Astoria could probably be made co-op without too much more effort.

The question you'd have to deal with then is if heroes and villains could exist in all those zones why are they only allowed to PvP in Bloody Bay, Sirens Call, Warburg and Recluse's Victory? That'd be a hard one to answer.

After more thought Clouded's idea of more CoV content not more CoV accessible zones is probably the best answer.

Ironically part of the reason why CoV has so few zones (compared to CoH) is that one of the major "lessons learned" from CoH was that many people didn't like just how 'big' CoH was. People complained about long travel times and multi-zone missions. Supposedly CoV benefited from and corrected that mistake by having a more linear, compact zone structure.

I guess the Devs are damned if they do and damned if they don't over this.

With that said I wouldn't be against the idea of giving CoV more zones. There's really no argument that the redside needs them at this point. I personally call CoV "Village of Villains" because right now it seems so tiny to me compared to CoH.

The real trick to this is seeing whether or not the Devs ever make this a priority or not...

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You probably don't need to have all 8 trays out at once. The devs were probably just like, "Screw it, we'll give them so many trays that there is no way they could possibly complain."

I know I'm planning on having 4ish on most of my characters, and 5-6 on certain characters. I'll probably have trays dedicated to all the temp powers I get.

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I think the "Screw it!" concept was pretty much the main Dev motivation here.

Back when this game started we only had 2 visible power trays.
Soon people started asking for a third one.
Eventually we got it and things were good for a while.

As time passed people started asking for a fourth tray. See where this was going?
If we had only gotten a fourth tray here people would be asking for a fifth one a year from now.

It was obviously far easier for the Devs to just give us the choice now to have as many as eight trays open at once so this issue could effectively be "handled" once and for all.

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If there is a SG anywhere on any server that is still barely active and possesses an IoP then THIS would be the time to speak up!!!

I'll travel to any server and make a run on an IoP for the badge, if anybody can let me know they own one!

I had no idea there were a few still laying around...

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Check the badger section of the forums, dolly. There's an SG on Infinity that still has theirs right now, iirc.

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The Infinity SG in question refuses to conduct base raids for that very reason. They have been able to claim that they are one of the only remaining SGs left with an IoP and did not want to risk losing it. Guess they wont have to worry about that any more

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So much for that SG keeping it a secret then.

Why do you think the Devs were motivated to try another IoP purge now?
Just something to do out of the blue perhaps?

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What I honestly think NCSoft should do is allow others to buy time. If you want to buy an extra series of months, you should be able to. This would be good for NCSoft and good for the players as it would give them what they want if they're willing to pay for it. The only ones I can see having a problem with this would be those who want to see their vet rewards as a special status symbol.

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What if you want to buy an extra series of months but you can't afford to?
Maybe a given person can afford to pay the monthly fee but nothing extra.
How is this "pay-extra-for" Awards system fair to that person?

Beyond that the -only- problem I have with this idea would be this would make these "pay-extra-for" Awards not Veteran Awards. There's nothing wrong with "pay-extra-for" Awards in theory but if the Devs had wanted to give us those that's what we would've gotten in the first place.

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just read the last 29 pages of people crying about the latest vet rewards. ARE YOU SERIOUS PEOPLE. i think the devs shouldnt give anymore out. people are never happy, if u do not like the game-------LEAVE. the devs do a good job keeping the game fresh, in fact sometimes i think they do to much to try and please everyone, sometimes less is better. in fact, im totally amazed on how rude some people are, they must be hillary supporters

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We shouldnt voice our displeasure with the implementation? Thats the entire POINT of these feedback threads.

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Clearly you do have a valid point about different ATs getting differing amounts of expected benefit from these new Vet pets at least as far as the buffs go. I still think clever players will find uses for these pets regardless of their ATs or playstyles. I have plenty of melee oriented characters AND non-melee ones and I'm expecting to use these pets in different ways for different situations.

But to apply a bit of perspective to this issue perhaps what you are suggesting for the 48 month pets (making them unkillable for instance) is actually something that might be applied to the 60 month Vet pets.

I make that prediction based on the following:
<ul type="square">[*]The Devs planned (at least at the beginning) to have at least 60 months worth of Vet Awards.[*]We have 36 month Vet pets which are non-combat holograms.[*]We have 48 month Vet pets which provide combat buffs but are very fragile.[/list]It MIGHT be possible that we will have even stronger 60 month Vet pets which provide combat buffs from an UNKILLABLE pet or some such.

Basically what I'm saying is that maybe the Devs actually LIKE your idea but they are saving it for the final Vet Pet award. Maybe your idea is not technically overpowered but it'll be limited/reserved only to 5 year vets.

Just something to consider.

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Either the buffs are overpowered to be practically on all the time for a back row character, or they arent overpowered to be on all the time for a front row character.

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Actually if I had to guess the "exploitable" nature Castle is talking about is the fact that these buffs are apparently team oriented. An unkillable team buff would be pretty powerful, obviously too powerful as far as the Devs are concerned. It'd almost be like a Vet based variant of a zero END cost Leadership pool power.

Once again balance is key.
My bet is if they made these pets unkillable they'd make the buffs NON-team oriented at the very least.

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LoL wut?

Lookin at the numbers so far, 5 of these things stacked together wouldn't even measure up to the Protection/REC that 1 layer of Rad-Infect &amp; Accel-Metab provides. For soloers (especially Melees), they won't even be Worth summoning. The most "Use" anyone will get out of these weak buggers is for putting their floaty E-Dilz on display in Atlas Park.

In real PvE (and PvP especially)...these things are ANYTHING but a "combat pet".
And "organized Teams" would get BETTER bonuses by just taking Manuevers+CJ.

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Hey don't lol at me.
I didn't create these pets the way they are.
I'm just commenting on them based on what I know and what the Rednames have said.

As far as how useful these "combat pets" are it's actually going to vary quite a bit. I run several ranged oriented characters who, in big teams, rarely take ANY damage of their own. Think about that: if I can run a ranged blaster who takes no damage then she'll be able have these pets providing the ENTIRE team these buffs pretty much all the time. If you've been reading the posts from people like Mastermind Zero you'll see that there are some ATs which'll actually benefit quite nicely from these even if Melee'rs don't.

You are right about there being plenty of ways to get more buffing from non-Vet methods. That -is- supposed to be the point isn't it? Once again Vet powers are meant to be "nice-to-haves" not "must haves". They should NOT really be all that powerful ever. On the other hand on the right teams being able to have 4 or 5 of these pets up and running almost constantly will certainly be within the realm of possibility despite how fragile they are. It's teams like these that Castle is worried about.