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Quote:You seem to miss the fact that in this case (Bill's posts), the focus of "suck/rule" was Bill and his impressions. Bill wasn't (as far as I've seen) making a performance oriented statement about VEATs, he was analyzing his own personal impression of them, and as such, your statement that he's wrong is invalid at best.He did flat out state that VEATs sucked. While he didn't say they needed to be changed, I don't really care. If you claim an AT sucks, and are flat out wrong, I will dispute it.
And by the way, you can dispute what you like, all you like. VEATs suck for me because they focus around doing things that do not interest me. -
Quote:Well, to each their own, but Ascendantia's build is quite form-heavy and Photon Seekers are very good on it as well. Naturally I gave up on some Human-form abilities.With that last build, I had enough attacks and enough slotting in each form to feel comfortable, without compromising on something like Photon Seekers.
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Quote:Just watch out that you don't get poked in the eye because another soft spot for Kheldians is the godhood syndrome.Every AT has its soft spots and you pointed out one here that I'll have to keep a gleaming eye on.
This strikes Warshades especially (although PB's are not exempt, Ascendantia provides ample proof of that) where the Kheldian in question would break off from the team and attempt to tackle enemies on their own. Some call this Scrapperlock, I call it the godhood syndrome because being able to blast, tank and heal oneself (coupled with a light/dark theme, of course) may bring a Kheldian to deem themselves godly. Occasionally the Kheldian would be correct, other times, they'd fall flat on their face and have to rez. -
Quote:It's always been true.You can use Howling Twighlight for the stun component without using it to rez..?
Thats...purdy damn neat, actually, if true.
EDIT :: To demonstrate how powerful Dark Miasma is, I would like to suggest that the reason DM has not been proliferated for Controllers is that they'd simply be too powerful with a Control power-set on top of all the tools in Dark Miasma. -
Quote:I actually still remember the first time I used Howling Twilight solo and witnessed a full enemy group (of minions, of course) walk around disoriented. I was thinking to myself that it's probably a bug... but subsequent use of the power can get very addictive so I admire people who can hold on to it and not use it for alpha-soaking.Never thought about it. Figured the stun and -regen were attached to the rez, which I knew was PBAOE.
But seriously, with all the tools available to Dark Miasma does one truly need mez protection? And before anyone answers that, try to be honest and remember that squishies are meant to be squishy. -
All I know about Tar Patch is that it would usually cause almost any enemy-AI to attempt to get out of the patch first and then fight me. So I've gotten used to opening with Tar Patch, Howling Twilight and also spamming the Dark Miasma heal even when I don't need to actually heal anyone, so that the -ToHit affects my enemies. All of this made my Merc/Dark, Thugs/Dark and Bots/Dark feel almost god-like against +2 enemies, so much so that I stopped playing them.
A duo of a Corrupter/Dominator with Dark Miasma and Ice Control could use Tar Patch and Ice Slick to essentially mitigate a lot of damage, allowing them to focus on taking out the opposition with impunity. So I do suggest contemplating the fact that since you're playing on a squishy character, and squishies should band together, maybe before crying for mez protection, one should attempt to find a group synergy that works better if the current synergy is lacking?
Besides, what's the point of playing a squishy character if it is not squishy?!and believe me, when you've got a squishy that can resist being mezzed, heal, buff, debuff, and attack... that squishy isn't very squishy.
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Only thing I can say about the most recent build you posted, Techbot Alpha, is why no Photon Seekers? They're such a joyful mininuke which stacks so nicely with a timely execution of Solar Flare (or Pulsar)...
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First, thank you for sharing, really, I mean it.
Secondly, you're just in love with your Warshade, and that's just fine. It's actually kind of normal for people who care more about what their character can actually DO rather than simply how much consistent DPS it can pump out, not that Warshades lack in the DPS department, but they do have to work for it, or rather "dance" for it.
As a TriFormShade, I normally start by teleporting into a mob, then hit Black Dwarf Mire and use that to buff up Eclipse which in turn allows me to resist damage while using Sunless Mire and then going to Nova to blast which comes naturally at this point. I'm so hooked on the trick that I'd sometimes stay in Nova till my health dips dangerously into the red only to use Stygian Circle (or the Rez if I misjudged). It's all good.
Have fun with your Warshade, get it to Lv50 and work on an IO plan with all the nifty bonuses you want. When you get tired with your Warshade, take a break from the game I guess, because I don't know of any class that can compete in the fun factor. -
Quote:Since Warshades can usually double-stack disorient on Bosses, I don't see why an All Warshade Team would not work, and depending on the type of enemy, an All Warshade Team could conceivably split up, but that's highly situational because of how each WS would be built and may require players be on top of their game more so than if they worked together.I dunno about that. Have you ever managed to make it all warshades?
An All Warshade Team, however, hasn't happened yet IIRC in our SG, partially because I don't yet have a Lv50 WS on Infinity.
I usually work towards that goal when I'm on CoH, but since he's in a level-pact with my wife's PB, it's going rather slowly at the moment. -
Quote:Yes, but the AKT is the only team where if people don't actually work together, things become an Epic teamwipe pretty fast. Hence my interest in them.But yeah, hell a team of 8 anythings is pretty awesome to see. Scrappers? Chopchoppunchpummelthud. Blasters? BOOM! Next spawn! Kheldians? -insert tooth tingling sounds and alien doom rumblings- Next!
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I had a nice visit with the family, watched SURROGATES at the local theater. Played some CoH on my Lv50 PB (Infinity)/WS (Liberty), and a bit of CO as well, actually.
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Its probably safe to say that outside of Controllers, Dominators, and Masterminds, TriForm Kheldians are my favorite AT on the game without a doubt.
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Quote:All I can say is that an All Kheldian Team feels epic as well when a couple of Warshades running Inky Aspect and a Peacebringer hitting Pulsar make a full spawn disoriented and things just go downhill from there for the poor enemies when there's a full squadron of Novas.As for VEATs, GP, the glory comes when teamed with other VEATs. They can be very fun solo, with lots of AoEs on Crabs, hittiness on Banes and Widows, and shielded controlling on Fortunatas. But the true glory comes about with 2+ VEATs. Multi stacked buffs makes them night unkillable, and the various attacks and debuffs they can bring to bear is nothing short of...well..Epic
Kheldians have to work for their Epic, VEATs just... stand there. In my opinion, that's very appropriate thematically. -
You know, I can't disagree with that, although more than a few PuGs I've been on not teams I've started, but teams I've joined have been perfectly happy to let my PB take alphas and tank, essentially leading the team despite having more than one tank on the team.
Quote:You never know what you're going to get with a Khel due to the sloppy design of the AT.
Quote:Sometimes a Khel can outshine a player of a regular AT, but please keep in mind that there are bad builds and bad players out there.
Quote:Due to the klunky design, long shift animations and poor to situationally decent DPS, Khels are at a disadvantage at the get go.
Quote:The devs made VEATs after learning from all the mistakes they made making HEATs. They realized that the majority of the playerbase didn't want Epic to mean Annoying and Situational.
Quote:There are days I really enjoy my warshade. After stygian circle (quite possibly the best power in the entire game) a warshade can be fun. There's even a video out there of a human/dwarf 'shade succeeding at the RWZ challenge by leaning heavily on eclipse and dwarf.
I have yet to see a PB do it. I hope one day PBs are brought up to so that they can at least do what WSs can do: Have the *potential* to be powerful. -
Quote:If I ever said that the Kheldian inherent mez protection was malfunctioning, or inadequate, I've said it because to me it seems ironic to provide my Kheldians with +1 Mag of mez protection for every Controller in my team, when most Controllers I've teamed with would already lock down the mezzers before I could get hit by any mezzes! As an Ice/Rad Controller, I've been in melee locking things down (yes, heavy Malta and Rikti, and CoT) with a combination of ArcticAir/ChokingCloud/IceSlick and Glacier, and perhaps that's an extremely potent combination to have all in one Controller, but having played several other CC power-sets (both as a Dominator and as a Controller) I know how potent together.Saying 'take dwarf for mezz protection' ignores the fact that Kheldians have a non-dwarf mezz protection.
It doesn't work correctly and it's sub-performing right now, but the team-link bonus is definitely there.
Unfortunately, the developers seem to have fallen into that concept trap without either removing the old version or replacing it too.
If I'd ever change anything about mez-protection in the inherent, it'd be to attach it to an AT other than Controllers, but that's about it. -
In my opinion, and experience, Kheldians especially Peacebringers are welcome on teams, as long as the team is not looking for something role-specific. As an AT, Kheldians can bring several gameplay options and tactics to a team, however, that depends more on the individual player's playstyle, skill and not on the design of the AT. This fact alone sets up an unfavorable scenario when a team leader is trying to decide whether or not to "hire" a Kheldian.
From my personal experience, no one ever spoke badly against my Warshades, but there have been times when a team leader expressed their dissatisfaction with my Peacebringer, and the reasons as far as I could understand were largely the KB, and to be honest, competing with the TL for aggro and alphastrikes. A competition which I frequently won despite using Dwarf and Nova forms with their limited power choices!
Some people simply don't care to see someone who is a "Jack of All Trades, Master of None" actually prove themselves to be "Better than a Master of One".
When most people simply like to "facemelt" through "raw" DPS rather than use gameplay tactics an AT like Kheldians is at a disadvantage by design. This issue is made worse in comparison with VEATs because the Devs (int their business-guided wisdom) decided to combine passive advantages, such as mez-protection and defensive force multiplication, together with a single-form power-house of raw damage that Kheldians simply require more work to compete with. -
Quote:You're supposed to play the game using your brains and instincts. Not everything should be attacked by rushing in and grabbing all the aggro with Dawn Strike and/or Solar Flare, are you deliberately trying to get yourself killed?So I'm not supposed to use my largest melee AOE attack because I have to hover-kite everything?
Quote:The developers were well and truly inconsistent with Peacebringers. They gave them a lot of great melee powers, decent shields and almost usable mezz protection in human form.
Quote:IMO, all 'human-form' kheldians need to play perfectly fine is a +2 mag protection to holds and stuns in a couple of their toggles.
On a normal team with one or two controllers, they would be at that functional level for 'melee centric' characters of about at least 4 mag. But would not be able to grab the aggro of two bosses that mezz well.
They actually be very 'scrapper-ish' which if you look at most of the powers (attacks and such) actually looks right.
Their ranged damage is still very, very sub-par compared to anyone that does range (even defenders).
From your posts it seems to me that you insist on engaging enemies in melee range while utilizing only a 1/3rd of what your AT offers, and expect results that only Scrappers/Tankers should get while utilizing the full capabilities of their AT/power-set combination.
I never saw any promise or explanation from the Devs claiming a Human-only PB can or should be played like a Scrapper. Instead, I see power-synergies and attack patterns that involve executing ranged and melee powers together. If you choose to ignore this and are having problems, maybe you should re-consider your strategies before assuming something wrong with PB's?
In any case, since both Kheldians have ways of obtaining mez-protection that are unavailable to other "squishies", I vote to remove Kheldians from the "mez protection for all" discussion. Not taking Dwarf form at Lv20 because you want to be Human-only should not be a reason to add mez protection to a Kheldian's human-form, but that's a totally different discussion for a totally different thread. -
Novella, you and I both! I too love my PB to bits, and don't get me wrong, I love my TriFormShade™(s) as well, it's just that... the PB is very self sufficient and doesn't require enemies around, defeated or alive, so I always know what I can expect from her. It lends itself to a more... relaxing experience that I favor these days over the frantic 'Shade gameplay.
I've seen many more posts discussing Warshades than Peacebringers, and before this version of the forums, you could find several threads discussing how disappointing it felt to go from a WS to a PB, and how satisfying going from a PB to a WS was. -
Quote:Sorry to be so late to the party and respond to this after so many posts, but, You were the one who mentioned more than one Controller, and when you've got two Controllers, they can work together to lock stuff up faster then you should rush into melee-range for. That's what I meant by strategy.On a full team while I'm in melee? Pretty normal actually. No matter what Controllers think or wish, their days of solo locking down full teams is a mere memory.
It's not the Dev's fault that you choose to go to melee when you could hover/blast from range, and close to melee when stuff is locked-down, Dominators do it all the time, and since you do have access to Dwarf form but chose to exclude it, that's one decision you have to live with.
Alternatively, if one of your Controllers has an AoE-stun power, you could help them by sneaking into melee and using Pulsar together with the Controller and his/her AoE stun to lock down everything around you, including Bosses.
These tactics work well for an All Kheldian Team, without force-multiplication and solid self-sufficient crowd control unless people are working together... so essentially, with all due respect, you do seem to be playing in ways that emphasize your weaknesses rather than display the strengths of the AT/power combination available to your team.
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To me personally, VEATs are boring and HEATs are exciting. HEATs are even more exciting in an all HEAT team because depending on the enemy we're fighting, we're doomed to miserably/epically fail if/when we forget to actually employ tactics and play together as a team.