Local_Man
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First, I suggest you export with the short form instead of the long form. Short form is easier to read.
Second, this is a classic example of slotting for bonuses and ignoring slotting for the functionality of powers. As a functional build, this one is not very good. Freezing Rain, Stone Cages, and Volcanic Gasses are underslotted, while Quicksand is overslotted. -
Quote:The main concern I would have about Ice/Time is the excessive focus on Slow. Ice has AA and Shiver, plus Slow as a secondary effect. Time has Time Crawl, Time's Junction and Distortion Field, all focused on Slow. Ice alone can easily make foes hit the Slow and -Recharge cap, so the Slow and -Recharge in Time would mostly go to waste. AA and Time's Junction should work pretty well together, but Distortion Field would be mostly wasted.Originally Posted by Netphenix5
Since both have a key power that's a PBAoE aura (Artic Air and the draining aura respectively), I'd think that both Ice control and Electric Control would synergize well with /Time. Ice would stack the slows quite easily too. Both are the lowest damage Controller Primaries though, so both would require teaming for fast levelling. But I think both would be very safe and very team-friendly. Mind you, I haven't tried either... Yet.
Fire as well would be a good pick since it has Hot Feet, bringing good damage. And both Fire and Ice have PBAoE holds in Cinders and Glaciers as "Oh poop!" buttons. -
Quote:Yes, Distortion Field helps to keep foes from running around, and then you can hit a single target with Time Crawl.Originally Posted by BL00DBATH
I am very familiar with how the powers of each set function. I think what I am trying to get from you guys is slotting ideas and what has the most potential, outside of fire control, to do good damage and control. I have always kind of hated the lack of aoe immob from mind and ill. Would all the slows in time alleviate that?
Personally, I have never felt that Illusion needed an AoE Immob since its attacks are single-target and the aggro-gathering of PA helps to keep foes in a group for the few times it is handy. But yes, the slows reduce the foes ability to run around. -
It appears to me to fix some of the major problems with the set. Gravity is a single target damage set with limited AoE contol and no AoE damage. These changes seem to emphasize that. Shortening the animation time for Propel will make it a much better power.
I'm not quite clear how the Impact will work. My Grav/Storm currently uses a GD-Crush-Propel single target attack chain. Will that get "Impact" damage, or do I need to use Propel immediately after GD?
The change to Lift has been needed for a long time, so that's nice. I was hoping for a change to the Order of Powers, and maybe for Wormhole to apply the stun at the beginning, but I like the changes mentioned. Gravity will still need a lot of support from the secondary, but it will do faster single target damage. -
Quote:This is one of the reasons I love my Speed on Demand binds from the old CityBinder program. I have both Hover and Fly. When I am sitting in the air, I am in Hover. As soon as I hit any directional key, the binds automatically activate Fly for as long as I hold that directional key. As soon as I let go of the directional key, the binds put me back into Hover. I never have to worry about Hover's flight speed.Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Hover gives you more global Defense and costs less End than Fly and can become a mule for LotG+Recharge. If you get Steam Pack Jump and GvE Jump Pack, you can make Hover hit the Fly cap nearly all the time on command.
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I fully agree with Mental Maden. None of my Illusion Controllers are built for Defense. I can manage the aggro with PA, Spooky (Spectral Terror), Flash, Phanty, Deceive and Blind. The only time I have significant issues are those occasional ambushes that ignore my pets and make a bee-line straight for me . . . I can take one or two out with Blind and Deceive, but if it is a crowd, I may have to run or occasionally faceplant . . . which is no big thing since debt means nothing.
An Ill/Rad has lots of tools for avoiding aggro.- Do you have enough Recovery to stay invisible all the time? Staying at range and invisible will help you avoid most aggro even if you are attacking.
- Use Deceive on any foes who notice you -- it lets you turn aside foes without alerting others. If you use Blind, you may alert others.
- Unless you are using PA to take the alpha, let the tank (and other melee guys) get the aggro first before you attack. As the tank runs in, I will often use Deceive to take out a boss or a foe with some kind of troublesome ability (like a debuff -- Deceive can often turn that debuff back on the foes, resulting in much better results than if you had held or killed that foe). After the tank has aggro, I don't have to be so careful.
- Don't use AoE attacks on groups larger than what PA (or your tank) can distract. The foes around the edges of your AoE attack will aggro on you. Once PA or the tank have the aggro, then feel free to use your AoE attack. I usually wait until after I have applied EF to get more damage.
- Focus on the targets who already are focused on your PA, or Deceive a foe before you take him down with your single target attack chain. Your attacks will draw aggro to you unless the other foes are already distracted with PA or Phanty, or if that foe is Confused.
- For tough foes, remember that RI has a significant ToHit Debuff. That's somewhat equivalent to defense.
- Stay at range and be prepared to run if you draw too much aggro.
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Quote:If you are building for damage, you can proc-out Freezing Rain. 2 Recharge, the Achilles Proc, the Lady Grey proc, the Impeaded Swiftness Proc, the Posi Blast proc. The amount of damage from these procs really adds up. Some folks assert that you need some accuracy for those procs to hit the first shot, but I feel that if you have enough global accuracy, you can get by without slotting Accuracy.Originally Posted by Netphenix5
- Freezing rain should be 6-slotted and one of those ear-marked for an Achille's Heel proc. The other five slots depend on whether you want Regen/Recovery (5-slot Touch of Lady Grey) or Accuracy (5-slot Undermined Defenses). Both give boosts to Damage and Health, and are IMO the only sets worth slotting in that power.
I prefer the Expediant Reinforcement over Call to Arms, mostly because the amount of enhancement is higher when you slot all four enhancements that do damage. You get the same 6.25% Recharge, but trade a Recovery and HP bonus for higher enhancement and a damage buff.Quote:- Tornado can be both a great AV killer and fantastic set mule, because it takes every pet set in the game, as well as the accurate defense debuff sets. If you actually use it for damage and like defense, a complete Blood Mandate is a sure value. For debuffing tough foes, I'd six-slot Analyse Weaknesses. For recharge, slot Call to Arms. Again, it's gonna depend on what you wanna focus on.
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Quote:One large advantage of the APP sets (except Earth) over the PPP sets is a fast-recharging single target blast. For Illusion, you can get a great attack chain of Blind-Spectral Wounds-Blast-Spectral Wounds. I haven't tested whether that attack chain results in higher damage than having the PPP powers including an extra pet, but I would not be surprised if the attack chain results in more damage.Originally Posted by BL00DBATH
Hey Mental, good point on the defense, but I usually like stone mastery for easy capped hp. But now that I am starting to lean toward ill/time, that seems to be a pretty useless attribute. How do you folks feel about mu/soul/leviathan mastery for even more pet madness? Seems like a really good idea to focus on letting the pets do the dirty work while I do the debuffing.
Fire and Ice are the fastest single target blasts, but Primal and Psi are still pretty good. Another nice thing about any blast other than Psi is that it provides you with a different damage type for those Psi-resistant foes. I use Fire on my Ill/Rad and Ill/TA, and use Ice for my Ill/Cold and Ill/Storm.
My Ill/Rad guide discusses the importance of being able to quickly kill off low level foes to make good use of the Illusory damage. -
So far, I have tried out Ill/Time, Fire/Time and Earth/Time, with the most progress on my Ill/Time. Time, like Rad, is a flexible enough secondary that it seems to work well with all of the primaries. I suppose all the slows in Ice might make the slows in Time to be superfluous, but Time appears to work well with all other primaries.
The question is what do you want to do? Play in melee and do a lot of AoE damage? (Fire) Play near melee, do good AoE damage and good control? (Plant) Be flexible enough to handle any situation? (Illusion) Provide large amounts of AoE control without damage, from range? (Earth) Provide large amounts of variable control with low damage from melee? (Electric) Decent single target damage with ranged AoE control? (Mind) Er . . . play Gravity? (Gravity) -
Quote:Don't misunderstand me -- I like Ill/Cold a lot. It is probably the best secondary for killing AVs. I played mine last night. I agree that Cold can have some higher debuff numbers at times. But I feel that Ill/Rad is overall more flexible for more situations, providing a wider range of benefits, especially for a newer player. Rad has a self-heal, a self-Recharge buff (along with all the other stuff in AM) and a huge AoE Hold that works as a great panic-button or additional control. It has a teammate rez, and the odd Fallout. While I agree that Choking Cloud isn't great for Illusion, it is key power with Fire, Electric or Ice. But then Cold has Frostworks which is pretty skippable, too.Originally Posted by _Pine_
That's fine and all, but looking at the pro's and con's Cold will come out on top.
Cold's Benefits:
-60% defense <25% is single target from Infridgidate on a moderate timer, 30% from Sleet on a moderate timer>
-30% resistance with Sleet <On a moderate Recharge Timer>
-33% resistance with Heat Loss <On a long recharge timer, and must siphon>
Two Places to put the Achilles Heal Proc for another -20% resistance
+3.75% defense [Arctic Fog]
-50% damage Benumb <Single Target on a long Recharge>
-500% regen Benumb <Single Target on a long Recharge>
-93% mez strength AND buff strength
Team +defense shields
+15% res for Energy, Negative, Fire, Cold : Arctic Fog
+60% Slow res with Arctic Fog
+63.5% * 2 recovery with one target effected by Heat Loss <On a long timer and must siphon>
And lets not forget the cumulative total of all the -recharge = 490% <But there is a cap of 75%>
Rad Pro's:
11.58% heal (117 HP)
-25% defense (can slot 1 AH proc for a moderate chance of extra -20% res) <Rad debuffs, except Slow, -Rech and -Regen, are on AoE toggles so almost always available>
-25% to hit
-22.5% res
-20% dam
-500% Regen + -1000 Regen if we are willing to use EM Pulse
-75% rech
+20% dam buff (which doesn't effect PA) <On a PB AoE click, so it does not require siphon off of foes>
30% recovery
+51% mez resistance
+30% recharge
A rez and a use on dead body power (Fall Out, which is pretty sweet)
A crappy AoE hold toggle power (its pretty bad) <Maybe for Illusion, but it is great for Fire, Elec or Ice>
These numbers are base. So most can be enhanced. The argument about AM vs Heat Loss in level range is kinda moot because you are only lower than level 38 for a short period. You are going to be over that for a whole lot longer, and when your not you will have a team to help. Heat Loss is 4 times more powerful than AM for recovery. Sleet should be perma, meaning it recharges in 30 seconds. If sleet isn't up at the start of a mob, it soon will be, so you can start summoning Spectral Terror to cut the Alpha strike that way.
I agree that AM is a pretty great power. The +res status effect is a great thing that nothing else really gives. However, because you have toggle debuffs (totaling 1.56 endurance per second usage base) you use up almost all of your +recov gained by AM for those two toggles alone :/ (They also have a fairly long recharge of 8 seconds :/ and a cast time together of 5.6 seconds. This means if some one does kill your anchor before the mob is dead, you have to wait 13 seconds before debuffs come again.)
Endurance might be manageable on a rad, but its forgettable on a cold. No worries what so ever. Also, with cold's Arctic Fog's defense, I am able to soft cap Smashing/Lethal defense with no IO bonuses, and Energy Defense is a small purple from soft cap. (This is with Mace Mastery, which also gives you two more places for AH procs and another pet that deals Toxic damage).
Rad's self-heal is pretty valuable to someone new to controllers. If you get hit, you can get back in the action faster, or you can heal teammates. The self-buffs from AM are pretty valuable, too. Cold doesn't get any powers that provide a self-buff until level 38, and then it is only Recovery, and only when you have foes to siphon off of.
If you want to make a perma-PA Illusion/Cold, you have to make up for the 30% Recharge in Rad's AM. This means that gettng an Ill/Cold to perma-PA will be far, far more expensive than a perma-PA Ill/Rad. That can be pretty tough for a newer player. My perma-PA build only has one purple set, the fairly inexpensive Confuse set. You will need a lot more purple sets for Ill/Cold.
Your numbers fail to take into account several things . . . such as the clicky nature of Cold vs. the toggle aspects of Rad. Cold's Infridgidate and Benumb are single target click powers, with Benumb on a long timer -- great on an AV, but pretty useless on large groups. Heat Loss is on a long timer and is a siphon-type power -- if you don't get a large group in your one shot, you will have to wait a while before you can try again. (I Know . . . it happened to me several times last night on the +4 ITF we ran.) Sleet may be able to recharge quickly enough that it can be "perma" on an AV, but on a fast moving team you will use Sleet on this group here and it may not have yet recharged by the time you reach that group there.
Rad's toggle debuffs last as long as the anchor survives. Counting the long cast time on the Rad toggles is not reasonable . . . since there is no need to use RI most of the time on teams. EF casts quickly, recharges quickly enough (especially with a high recharge build) to be applied to each and every group. Sleet and Heat Loss can't do that, so while EF's numbers are lower, it can be applied to many more foes.
And discounting the early nature of Rad's powers vs. the late nature of Cold's powers can be an important issue. If someone doesn't enjoy playing a character in lower levels, how likely is that person going to stay with the character until the character gets the "good stuff?" Maybe an experienced player or someone who likes to PL characters will stay with it, but not someone new to controllers.
I've played both builds quite alot. I think that Ill/Rad is a little more flexible while Ill/Cold is better for taking down AVs provided you have enough Recharge in the build. -
Quote:Uh, sorry but I don't agree. With the right strategy, an Ill/Rad's Endurance can be managed and the toggles should only be used at the right times. Rad gets AM early, which includes a Recovery boost (along with a boost to damage, recharge, travel speed and even reduces mez duration). In low levels, AM is wonderful. (Cold doesn't get Heat Loss until level 38.) EF is an "every group" type of debuff as it casts quickly and provides a large Resistance Debuff (and a damage debuff). RI doesn't need to be used most of the time -- it has a longer cast time than EF but provides -Defense and -ToHit, which you don't really need on most common foes -- RI is mainly needed on tougher foes when the longer cast time is not a problem. Thus there is no need to use it on most groups, but you can if you want. (My Ill/Rad guide has a strategy section on how to use the Rad toggle debuffs.)Originally Posted by _Pine_
The experience I have had with Ill/Rad vs Ill/Cold is the rad always seems to run low on endurance very quickly, not really helpful during teaming because by the time you have your two debuff toggles on the anchor is dead or the mob is, and when you do have your debuffs on you get stunned and have to retoggle them on :/
Cold has heat loss and no toggle debuffs. Also Sleet is a great soft control for you, since Illusion is all about soft control. The only thing Rad has that Cold doesn't is -To Hit which you can get -15% or more from Spectral Terror, and +def from Arctic Fog (and a whole bunch of Slow Res).
No question that Cold is a great secondary for Illusion, but powers like Sleet (which is almost the same thing as Freezing Rain, but you don't get it until level 35) and Heat Loss (Level 38) are "click-then-recharge" powers on fairly long timers. A team that kills quickly will move faster than these powers recharge. EF and RI are Foe-anchored AoE toggles, which are not only available much earlier but also are almost always available for use with every group of foes.
As for endurance problems, if you build for Recharge and Recovery, the endurance is quite managable. With the procs in Health and other Recovery bonuses, endurance isn't an issue. Of course, the main weaknesses for Cold are a lack of any self-Recharge bonuses and a lack of a self-heal. -
Quote:I posted my build on my Stone/Fire tank earlier, which is softcapped to S/L only in Rock Armor. I love the build that lets me stay in Rock Armor most of the time, then throw on Granite only in severe situations when I need it. Granite has substantial penalties to both Recharge and Damage. I can avoid those penalties most of the time with a capped S/L build.Originally Posted by MisterD
Ok..so..your play style has evolved? Yet when not in granite, stone armour needs MORE work than other sets, to shore up what is a pretty ordinary set , without granite?
And even without Granite, stone has..3? 4? powers that ruin your costume. Minerals, rock armour, cystal armour and rooted. 4 powers you NEED to have on without granite. I will ask again..if the costume was such a consideration, in not running granite..how do all these powers get included too?
Willpower, ice, dark, fire, invul, sr..all these armours can be made awesome..without needing ONE power..there tier 9s. Stone, is mediocre at best, without its tier 9. Because the set is basically balanced on the fact you will be in granite.
I just dont see how skipping the best power in the set is evolution..when the other powers offer nothing the other sets cant do much better.
I would never SKIP Granite, but finding a way to avoid it most of the time is a big help. -
Quote:I struggled with Gravity for a while, but I was determined to take all of the controller primaries to 50. I tried Grav/Rad, Grav/Kin and Grav/Therm. I finally stuck with Grav/Storm because there is some really great synergy between the sets. Storm really fills in some of Gravity's weaknesses. I mostly solo'ed my Grav/Storm up to 50, and found him to be a fun character . . . not fast, but fun. It really took a lot of strategy to play the character well. I would often pause before each encounter to look over the area and try to figure out how to best use my powers to take down this next group.Originally Posted by Son of Amber
Thank you very much for the thoughts and explanations - i had been reading up on certain Grav posts and heard plenty of reasons why Grav is broken/how to fix it, why it works great with/awful with: Time, etc. Frankly i found it all a bit confusing. I have started several Grav toons over the years but didn't find them fun. Dying often AND not really contributing to the team on control or damage left me annoyed with my toons. So perhaps what i am asking is for Grav trollers to tell me what secondaries they had the most fun using and why. I like the concept of the powerset but agree it seems a bit. . . broken or at least wounded. So how do You make Gravity Control Fun?
Other Grav combos were really tough in low levels, but as soon as I got the Freezing Rain/Crushing Field combo for Grav/Storm, it solved the problem of a lack of AoE control in low levels. Because Crushing Field does not have -knockback, CF immobilized foes in place while Freezing Rain provided knockdown (and lots of debuff). Hurricane was also huge . . . I used it more on my Grav/Storm than any other */Storm character I have. Because Gravity is so single target-focused, Hurricane keeps foes out of melee and debuffs their ToHit, giving me time to use my GD-Crush-Propel attack chain to take down one foe at a time.
Thunderclap's stun stacks with Wormhole's, and allows you to keep the minions stunned while you focus on taking down the tougher foes. Steamy Mist+Super Speed for full invisibility, which makes leading Singy in to tank for me easy. Lightning Storm and Tornado for extra damage.
One of my favorite strategies was to set up a corner of doom . . . fire off Lightning storm, then wormhole a group into a corner. Trap them there with Hurricane while I use Crushing Field, Tornado, Singy and my attack chain, with an occasional Thunderclap to keep them stunned.
The one down-side: an Immob with -knockback allows Tornado to be a huge damage dealer instead of a chaos-maker. But I didn't see that as a downside for my mostly solo, mostly single-target damage controller. The single target hold DOES have -knockback, so while I pounded away on my single target, 'Nado would throw all of the other foes around which kept them from attacking me. Once my initial target was face-planted, then I could root down the next one as I pounded him. So I didn't find the lack of an AoE Immob to be a problem . . . except on teams. On teams, I generally didn't use Tornado unless we were pounding on an AV.
As Mental Maden said, if you are looking for Damage, you will do better with a Dominator. But if you really want to run a Controller, I suggest Grav/Storm. -
Quote:This is, overall, a pretty nice build. I'd make a few minor changes in slotting, but overall pretty good. All the Hami-Os help with the lack of slots.Originally Posted by Airhammer
Here is my Grav/Time as he is on live.. a lot better than my Grav/Psi..still working on Incarnates
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Prime: Level 50 Technology Controller
Primary Power Set: Gravity Control
Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Crush -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(3), HO:Nucle(3)
Level 1: Time Crawl -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(36)
Level 2: Gravity Distortion -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(5), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 4: Temporal Mending -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Rchg(17), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(19), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(37)
Level 6: Propel -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(7), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(9), RechRdx-I(9)
Level 10: Crushing Field -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(11), HO:Nucle(11), ImpSwft-Dam%(15), Posi-Dam%(17), TotHntr-Dam%(42)
Level 12: Time's Juncture -- DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(13), DarkWD-ToHitDeb(13), DarkWD-Rchg/EndRdx(15)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 16: Distortion Field -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(23), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(23), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(39)
Level 18: Gravity Distortion Field -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(19), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(21), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(21)
Level 20: Time Stop -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(36), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(36), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(37)
Level 22: Temporal Selection -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(25), Dct'dW-Rchg(25), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(46), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 24: Hover -- Krma-ResKB(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 26: Wormhole -- Amaze-Stun(A), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(27), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(27), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(31), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(34)
Level 28: Farsight -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(29), HO:Membr(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+(40)
Level 30: Recall Friend -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Singularity -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(33), HO:Centri(33)
Level 35: Slowed Response -- HO:Lyso(A), HO:Lyso(42), HO:Lyso(42)
Level 38: Chrono Shift -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(39), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(39), Dct'dW-Rchg(40), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Mental Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(45), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 44: Indomitable Will -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(45), RechRdx-I(45)
Level 47: Psionic Tornado -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(33)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(31), EndMod-I(31)
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Set Bonus Totals:- 7.5% Defense(Energy)
- 7.5% Defense(Negative)
- 3.75% Defense(Ranged)
- 6.75% Max End
- 12% Enhancement(Heal)
- 24% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 92.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 49.6 HP (4.88%) HitPoints
- Knockback (Mag -4)
- Knockup (Mag -4)
- MezResist(Immobilize) 8.25%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 6.6%
- 15% (0.25 End/sec) Recovery
- 7.88% Resistance(Fire)
- 7.88% Resistance(Cold)
Time Crawl: That second Acc slot is probably needed more in other places. It's not bad to have it, but slots are in short supply on this build.
Crushing Field: I'm not sure the Nukes are providing all that much benefit. Might want to go for more Acc/EndRdx or some Acc/Mez Hami-Os (unless you have the Cardiac Alpha). The three procs are great though. Again, not bad slotting at all, but might be slightly better if slotted differently.
Super Speed: Try to get a Celerity Stealth in there. Full Invisibility makes a BIG difference. It lets you lead Singy into battle to draw aggro without getting any aggro yourself.
GDF: The Baz Gaze set alone doesn't have enough Accuracy to make up for the 20% Acc penalty. Consider taking that slot out of Time Crawl for an Acc/Hold/Rech here, assuming you use the power fairly frequently.
Temporal Selection: 5 slots here for a 5% Recharge? Personally, I think you can get by with a simple Recharge here, and use those 4 slots in other places. To make up for the 5% Recharge lost, you could replace Recall Friend with Combat Jumping (immob protection and maneuverability) and slot it with a LotG Recharge.
Hover: If you are going to keep Recall Friend, you could slot Recall Friend with a Zephyr -Knockback and thus free up a slot out of Hover.
Singy: Consider replacing the Centriole with a Dam/Mez. Also, if you get some spare slots, put both +10% Resistance for pets procs here. Those procs make Singy much tougher.
With a spare slot, you could put another LotG Recharge into Indomidible Will . . . so you would gain 15% recharge from those slots given up out of Temporal Selection. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Subject87
I usually play Scrappers with the exeption of the tank and mastermind I'm leveling now. I've tried doms but I just can't seem to get interested in one, but controllers sound interesting.. Any power suggestions for a first time controller? I usually form teams, or solo so a bit of both if that helps. And I'll be using strictly SO's.
I'll give the advice I generally give to folks wanting to make their first controller -- try Illusion/Radiation. Why? It is amazingly flexible, can solo very well and yet is great on teams, doesn't conflict with other controllers, dominators or anything else. Ill/Rad is pretty easy to play moderately well, but a challenge to play very well. It works great as a low level character, gets most of its best powers early, and yet some of the upper level powers can make large differences in the effectiveness of the caracter.
An Illusion/Rad can be a Tank, Blaster, Defender and Controller. In upper levels, you can handle almost anything in the game, and the build is famous for being an AV killer. Even without Perma-PA, it is very, very effective.
I suggest you take a look at my Illusion/Radiation Guide, link in my sig. It will give you a lot of basics about controllers, leveling up suggested builds (with the reasons for choosing the various powers), then suggested builds with SOs, moderate IOs and high level perma-PA builds. EVEN IF YOU CHOOSE AN ILLUION CONTROLLER without RAD, or a RAD controller without ILLUSION, there's probably some stuff in the guild that will help you.
Illusion/Cold is great . . . but two of its best powers come at 35 and 38. It is a late-developing build, and doesn't have any powers to boost your Recharge. Rad has a recharge boost available at level 4. Rad has a self-heal available at level 1, while Cold does not have a self-heal at all. As a first controller, I think Illusion/Rad is better. I'd probably pick Ill/Time over Ill/Cold AS A FIRST TIME CONTROLLER, but Ill/Rad is still better because of the earlier powers. (I have Ill/Rad, Ill/Cold, Ill/TA and Ill/Storm all at 50, and I'm working on my Ill/Time.) -
I mostly leveled up my Grav/Storm solo. I'm still working on several */Time characters, but I haven't gotten any of them up to 50 yet. But there are a few suggestions I would make:
If you are playing solo mostly, you want DAMAGE. You have Crush slotted for damage . . . good. You also want damage in Grav Dist and you need either Lift or Propel. Lift is kind of sucky, but may be better for teams. Propel is better solo because, although it is slow, with containment it hits HARD. I had my standard attack chain of GD-Crush-Propel for taking down foes and it really works well. Even if GD misses, Crush will then set Containment for Propel. On teams, Propel is so slow that you will sometimes clobber foes who have been already killed by teammates. I call this "Necro-blasting." You can avoid this by mostly focusing on the foes with more HP, like bosses and Lieutenants. Let the teammates with lots of AoE handle the minions.
The two hold procs in GD: GD will hold minions and lieutenants and 20% of bosses on its own. Those procs will only have a chance to do anything against the 80% of bosses not held by GD. (The procs look like they are doing a lot more than they are because they play the tesla cage animation even of a foe is already held by GD alone.) You already have two single target holds for bosses, so those procs have minimal benefit. I would suggest replacing those procs with Damage. I like an Acc/Dam Hami-O and a common Damage.
Temporal Mending: Pull a slot from Temporal Selection to 5-slot Doctored Wounds.
Crushing Field: Your slotting is great if you want S/L defense as your focus. Otherwise, go for Accuracy, EndRdx and as many damage procs as you can.
Temporal Selection: One slot is enough. I just have a Recharge.
Teleport Foe: I wouldn't take it, but if you want it, it needs ACCURACY. The Stealth is wasted. This is considered an attack, which disables stealth.
If you want stealth, I suggest you reconsider your travel power and use Super Speed with a Stealth IO. My Grav/Storm uses Super Speed and Steamy Mist, and the invis is a key part of my strategy. While invisible, I can lead Singy into a fight, let him draw the aggro, and then pick off foes one-by-one. If you need to fly, you can always use a Raptor Pack without using a power choice.
Singularity has high Resistance, so it can really, really benefit from the two +10% Resistance procs. That makes Singy a much tougher tank! (Remember that you can't heal Singy.) I have used Singy to tank EBs and even an AV or two.
Recall Friend is a really good place for a -knockback IO. The Range only helps for long zones like the length of IP or the Shadow Shard.
I agree that the Rectified Reticule is probably not worth a slot. -
Quote:I wanted to play a Gravity controller even though I had generally been critical of the set -- Gravity is pretty boring other than three powers, Propel, Wormhole and Singularity. I tried several combinations -- Grav/Rad, Grav/Therm, Grav/Kin -- and it was just too frustrating. Too single-target focused in the low levels with only an AoE Immob for AoE controlOriginally Posted by Airhammer
Why does Gravity suck....
1) Propel Sucks.. too long to animate.. Often hits target AFTER its dead on teams.. I have suggested changing the animation multiple times over the years to something that doesnt generate an image to make it go faster.. I suggested a smaller singularity fired from a palm-up facing forward animation.. I guess they would rather have an iconic power that sucks
2) Wormhole. Needs to have the stun applied at the BEGINNING not at the end as they come out of the wormhole.. whats the point of me being attacked by a whole mob before they get mezzed ??
3) Dimension Shift- Manages to defy the laws of physics being able to both suck and blow as a power at the same time...
4) Dimension Shift- Yes its THAT bad it gets two spots..
5) Long Recharges on AOE controls. Because they are hard controls ( which is all Gravity has ) they are all on long timers... If you dont oick a secondary that offers better control.. It can be tough on a Grav
6) Crushing Field DOESNT offer -kb... you would Think that gravity WOULD offer this...Makes sense right.. its GRAVITY it Locks stuff down... NOPE not so...
7) Lift should do more damage. Levitate in Mind does more damagae than lift does even though they are the same power. It was probably originally balanced around Propel.. which also sucks.
Gravity should be more like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSeBxGgHAv0
What do I see in this video.. Do I expect to lift a whole city.. no...
Did I expect to see some type of Anti-Gravity Beam or field that would act like an Ice slick that makes foes fall UP...
YES...
Did I expect some kind of toggle power that would be a massive -fly,-run,-slow - recharge, field with a a chance to hold you know something like what they gave to TIME
YES..
Oh well... at least my Grav.Time didnt suck as much as my Grav/Kin did..
Then I finally tried Grav/Storm. I had already been working on Ice/Storm and Ill/Storm, so I knew how good Storm was. What I really liked about the combo was the synergy between knockdown in Freezing Rain and the lack of -knockback in Crushing Field -- that gave me the AoE control I wanted to get through those lower levels. That was a good thing because I mostly solo'ed this character -- he wasn't on my main server.
But he became more fun to play with Wormhole, and then a lot more fun to play with Singularity. I finally got him up to 50 quite a while ago.
As for the powers:
1) I agree that Propel's animation is too long. I don't really want to see the random object go away, though. I've always thought that Propel should be a narrow cone, since that flying forklift should hit any foes between me and my target.
2) Wormhole requires some careful strategy to be able to target a group, and then duck behind a wall or corner to set it off. Either the Stun should hit first, or it should be a larger area, or both.
3) and 4) Yeah, Dimension Shift stinks . . . but then, all Intang powers stink. It is not uncommon for a set to have a stinker power, but I would not complain if this were changed. But I would rather have other powers change if it meant that this one stayed unchanged.
5) Long Recharge on hard controls is just the life of a controller. Oh well, build for Recharge.
6) I LIKE the fact that Crushing Field does not have -knockback because of the synergy with Freezing Rain (or Cold's Sleet), so I disagree with you here.
7) Agree that Lift does too little damage. I see no reason why Levitate is better than Lift or that Lift does less damage than Crush. If Propel was changed to a cone, this would be the single target damage power. -
Quote:Those powers use short pulses, so the power boost effect only lasts for the duration of the boost -- 15 seconds.Originally Posted by muonia
So how does that interact with powers like Weave, Maneuvers, and Combat Jumping?
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Overall it looks like a nice build with well-thought-out slotting. I just saw a couple of things that you may want to consider:
The Numina's proc in Conductive Aura. Yes, CA will be on most of the time . . . but not all of the time. There is no benefit to having the proc in CA and there would be no downside to moving that slot and proc to Health. Plus, if you don't have any endurance issues, you could replace the Miracle proc with a Numina's Heal for a big Regen bonus.
Have you actually tried World of Confusion? Pretty much everyone I know who has agrees that the power stinks. A few people like it as a mule for the purple confuse set . . . but you have that in Synaptic Overload. The one or two people who have actually said they like the power all agree that it really needs the Contagious Confusion proc . . . but you have that in Synaptic Overload. Also, have you checked to see if the power causes aggro or wakes sleepers? It causes minimal Psi damage, so it will wake up foes who are napping in Static Field -- which is not what you want. Overall, the radius is too small and the confuse pulse duration is too short to make the power anything more than a useless endurance drain. Instead, take Psi Blast and slot it with Thunderstrikes. -
Just to give you some ideas, here is my build for my Stone/Fire tank, which is softcapped to S/L in Rock Armor. I used the "chance for Knockback" proc a lot because Fire doesn't have any knockback. However, Stone Melee does have knockdown, and the proc might add mag to turn that knockdown into knockback -- so you may want to use the more expensive Kin Combat triple.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.952
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Mickey Mantel: Level 50 Science Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Rock Armor -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(7), GftotA-Def(7), GftotA-Run+(31)
Level 1: Scorch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(34), KntkC'bat-Knock%(37), HO:Nucle(37)
Level 2: Fire Sword -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Knock%(13), HO:Nucle(31)
Level 4: Combustion -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(5), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(5), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(25), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 6: Earth's Embrace -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(13), Dct'dW-Rchg(21), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Dct'dW-Heal(42)
Level 8: Rooted -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(9), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Numna-Heal(50)
Level 10: Mud Pots -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(11), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(11), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(27), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 12: Teleport -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(15), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(15), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(42), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(43), Zinger-Dam%(43)
Level 16: Breath of Fire -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(17), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(17), Posi-Dmg/Rng(46), Posi-Dam%(46)
Level 18: Stone Skin -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(21), ImpArm-ResDam(40)
Level 20: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 22: Recall Friend -- Range-I(A)
Level 24: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 26: Minerals -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Run+(27)
Level 28: Fire Sword Circle -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(29), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(29), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(45), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 30: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Granite Armor -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Run+(33), DefBuff-I(33), ImpArm-ResDam(33), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(34), ResDam-I(34)
Level 35: Incinerate -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(36), KntkC'bat-Knock%(36), HO:Nucle(37)
Level 38: Greater Fire Sword -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(39), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Laser Beam Eyes -- HO:Nucle(A)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(50), Heal-I(50)
Level 49: Energy Torrent -- Acc-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(48), Heal-I(48)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(19), EndMod-I(19)
Level 4: Ninja Run
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Quote:Originally Posted by MentalMaden
But I'll just add:
Neither defense or resistance (from epic shields and bonuses) is more important than the tools given to a controller in their primary and secondary.
A properly played controller has more than ample mitigation from its primary and secondary. As such I feel it is of most importance to enhance that before going for D/R bonuses. This is achieved through recharge, +recovery and +end. Recharge to keep better controls available more often and recovery/end so you can continue controlling and buff/debuffing. An understanding of how your powers work and on who and proper aggro management can make it where an epic shield is really just "extra".
This isn't an anti softcapping post, just a suggestion that other more important bases are covered. You are a controller afterall, your job is to control things and supply support through buff/debuffs. And your true strength and value come from that. It doesn't come from not getting hit. Your control and debuffs should be doing that anyway.
Yes I realize there are times where you can have your cake and eat it too and I'm not saying that softcapping is a 'bad thing'. There are times where its easy to achieve (/FF or stacking of resistance in /Sonic, etc.) and your primary goals are still easily done. Nothing wrong with that. I'm just stating it's a nice trick, but far from necessary for proper controller play.
And I want to add to this . . . although I have worked up builds focusing on defense for other folks, none of my many controllers are softcapped. Most of them are in the kind of limbo where I have a playable build but nothing close to a "final IO'ed out" build. The fully IO'ed out builds I have focus mostly on Recharge and Recovery. Some of them have "some" defense, but none of them really are focused on Defense.
Characters who can control more will provide more benefit to the team. Characters who softcap usually do so at the cost of less Recharge, less control and/or fewer "situational" powers that can provide various benefits. Besides, not being nearly invulnerable makes the game a lot more of a fun challenge. It takes more strategy, more teamwork and a lot more attention than being able to walk into the middle of a huge group of foes and ignore them. -
Quote:Part of the reason I haven't is that I haven't tried them all. It takes a lot of grinding trials to try all of the various options, and I just haven't gotten around to it yet.Originally Posted by Agent White
Your guide is really fantastic and very helpful, I was kind of curious (unless I just missed it) Do you have any plans to expand the guide to include the latest 4 Incarnate slots?
I tried all of the original Alpha options (but new ones have been added). I have Pyronic in my Judgment slot . . . but I really want to change that to Ionic after using Ionic on several other characters. Those are the only two I have tried because they just seem to be better than the others.
I also have Reactive in Interface, Clarion in Destiny and the Warworks pet for Lore. All of those are just personal preference based upon what I have read and seen about options in the Incarnate system. They each seemed to be the best choices when the Incarnate slots were first made available, but new choices have been added. I have yet to try everything. I'm not experienced enough with all of the Incarnate stuff to really make recommendations with any kind of support. Part of my problem is too many level 50 characters and not enough willingness to grind trial after trial after trial after trial.
The Destiny slot seems to have the biggest impact overall. I went with Clarion because it solves the occasional mez problem that I have. The heal, Rebirth, is amazingly good, too, and I have gone with that one on my few melee characters who went that far in the Incarnate area. I have yet to try the others, but I can see characters who would benefit from each of the options.
Even the one guide on the incarnate slots seems to be a work-in-progress. See THIS THREAD. -
Quote:The simple way to look at it is 1% Defense = 2% Resistance. So 40% Defense would equal about 80% Resistance (which is more than the cap). However, it is not quite that simple. Defense lets you avoid being hit, so it will protect you from mez as well. The soft cap for Defense is 45% (before Incarnate), while the Resistance cap for anyone other than Tanks is less than 90%, so you can get more Defense than Resistance. Defense is somewhat easy to get with IO set bonuses, while Resistance is somewhat rare, so it is easier to build for Defense.Originally Posted by Just_Joe
is it better to have 40% def than 60% resistance to S/L?
For either one, the more you have, the more valuable each additional percentage is. If you already have high Resistance, then more Resistance will probably be more valuable than more Defense. -
I have a few suggestions on this build. With all the purple sets in this build, it will be hugely expensive -- a lot more than that 2 billion you said you have. One set of Apocalypse or Ragnarok alone will exceed your budget. In my guide, I have a build without any of the purple damage sets, as those are the ones that are excessively expensive. If I don't mention a power, that means I have no problem with how it is slotted:
Blind: The sleep effect in Blind is a rare side effect and it is a waste to slot for Sleep. Yeah, the purple set is comparably cheap, but you are completely missing out on slotting for Hold or Damage, and Blind is far too important as a Containment setter and damage dealer. My suggested slotting is 4 Baz Gaze (The same 4 you currently have in Flash), 1 Acc/Dam Hami-O and a common Damage. That gets you some Hold, some decent damage and good accuracy.
Radiant Aura: If you don't already have that Panacea set, it is outragiously expensive -- more than the 2 billion you said you have. Five Doctored Wounds is fairly cheap and gives you almost as much Recharge. And move that Miracle proc to Health, where it will be on all the time. If you leave the proc in Rad Aura, it will only work for 120 seconds after you use the heal.
Spectral Wounds: If you can't afford the purple set, use the Decimation set -- I put the Chance for Build up here since it gets used more than twice the number of times than Ice Blast. If you go past the "Rule of 5" on 6.25% Recharge, you can use the Unspeakable Terror set in Spectral Wounds.
Group Invis: Since you are mostly using this as a set mule, move it to later in the build. Consider taking Hasten at 14 so you have it even if you exemp down.
Enervating Field: If possible, use 2 EndRdx. It uses a lot of endurance, and this power is worth using constantly. (You can take that 6th slot from Radiant Aura and put it here.)
Phantom Army: Replace the Soulbound Acc/Rech with Soulbound Damage/Rech. Capping Accuracy doesn't do you nearly as much good as capping Damage. (I know you have the Dam/Rech in Phantasm, but it does not need to be there.)
Teleport: I leveled up using Teleport, but have since switched to Fly. You want Teleport, and that's fine. It uses a lot of endurance, so you may want to consider using either a EndRdx or an EndRdx/Range in the default slot.
Recall Friend: You might want to consider putting a Zephyr -Knockback in Recall Friend. I don't see any other knockback protection.
Team Teleport: Ugh . . . have you actually used this power? Most teams hate it, and for good reason. I see no reason to take it. Consider Combat Jumping, which provides Immob protection, air maneuverability and a place for a Luck of the Gambler Recharge all in a very low cost toggle. Or you could take Mutation. I would move Flash here at 24 or earlier.
Ling Rad: You have too much accuracy in a few places, but here is one place where you NEED accuracy in the default slot. Replace that proc with a common Accuracy. Only consider the proc if you have a spare slot.
Phantasm: Replace the Expediant Acc/Rech with Dam/End. Then you can use a single Acc/Dam Hami-O in the 5th slot and use the 6th slot somewhere else.
Ice Blast: I would suggest only using the Chance for Build Up proc if you have a 6th slot to finish capping the damage. Otherwise, skip the proc.
Flash: I would move this earlier. Also, I'd use the purple Unbreakable Constraint set in Flash over EM Pulse. I find that I use Flash a LOT more often.
Frost Breath: If you can't afford the Ragnarok set, use Posi Blast, and you may have to change the set in Spectral Terror to Unspeakable Terror.
EM Pulse: 4 Baz Gaze are enough in this power.
Health: Replace the Miracle Heal/End with the Miracle Proc from Radiant Aura. -
Quote:"Here's that hot dog that I ate three days ago. I'd like to return it for a refund . . . "Originally Posted by Ironblade
Actually, some locations do have draconian restrictions. In NY City, you can return anything within 3 days for no reason whatsoever.
They can have a thousand signs saying "All Sales Final" and the law takes precedence.
You did say "anything" . . .