Local_Man

[ QUOTE ]
Which power blast, ice blast, slightly slower but still mental blast also offer. I really don't find much synergy between fire epic and ill/rad at all personally. Its just damage, but offers next to no tactical advantage to the combo.

At least power blast/energy torrent offer knockback/down as a mini-control form to make up for illusions lack of positional control, as does psy tornado, in addition to mental blast/psy tornado's addition to adding more -recharge to the battle, which of course IW also helps you from your toggles being shut off.

Energy blast/torrent are a bit more thematical as well given phantasms abilities.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wanted Fire because I also wanted Fireball with its fast AoE damage (not a cone) and for Consume for those occasional situations where I run low on endurance. Conserve Power will reduce your use of End, allowing you to slowly recover, but not get it all back in one shot.

I tried Primal in the days before Torrent was added. I agree that it is more appealing now, even if Power Boost doesn't do much. Ice with Frostbreath is also more appealing. I wonder why Fire can't add Fire Breath to make it match.

The four reasons I wouldn't go with Earth are (a) it doesn't have a fast recharging single target blast to make an attack chain, (b) Since Ill/Rad has a heal, Earth's Embrace isn't needed that much, (c) the AoE damage attack has very short range, and (d) the Earth armor is really ugly. My stone tanks were designed with the armor in mind, but not my Ill/Rad.

Still, Seismic Smash makes the Earth APP very tempting.

[ QUOTE ]
I'd hazard to agree with this ...

the following build is one I've been working with in Mids and has global +recharge in nearly every power that can provide it (without using any purples) and is still several seconds shy of perma PA.


[/ QUOTE ]

Changing your set in Phantom Army to all of the Expedient Reinforcement set, plus a common Recharge in place of the Resistance proc, will reduce your recharge from 65 to 61.7 seconds.

Also, you can put 5 Decimations in for Thunderstrike in Spectral Wounds.

[ QUOTE ]
Well, for a realistic team build, the best I could get is 60% recharge, since there's no way in H-E-double-toothpicks that I'll ever be able to afford a Basilisk's Gaze set (or purples for that matter).

With that said, PA would still have 50 sec. of downtime (according to Mid's), which is fairly respectable in most situations. So, tear this build apart and see what you can do with it:


Level 50 Science Controller[/b]
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Teleportation
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blind -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(7), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23)
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(11), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Dct'dW-Heal(27)
Level 2: Spectral Wounds -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(7), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25)
Level 4: Accelerate Metabolism -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(5), RechRdx(5), EndMod(17), EndMod(29), EndMod(29)
Level 6: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(9), RechRdx(9)
Level 10: Air Superiority -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(36), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(37), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 12: Radiation Infection -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(13), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(13), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(27)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight(A)
Level 16: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- C'Arms-Acc/Rchg(A), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg(19), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), C'Arms-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(23)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(21), EndMod(21)
Level 22: Mutation -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(46)
Level 24: Enervating Field -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(25)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- Abys-Acc/Rchg(A), Abys-EndRdx/Fear(39), Abys-Acc/EndRdx(39), Abys-Fear/Rng(39), Abys-Acc/Fear/Rchg(40)
Level 28: Lingering Radiation -- TmpRdns-Acc/Slow(A), TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow(31), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(34), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(34), TmpRdns-Acc/Dmg/Slow(36)
Level 30: Superior Invisibility -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(31), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(31), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), RedFtn-EndRdx(36)
Level 32: Phantasm -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Recall Friend -- EndRdx(A), RechRdx(46)
Level 38: EM Pulse -- Lock-Acc/Hold(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg(40), Lock-Rchg/Hold(40), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(43), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(43)
Level 41: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(42), Posi-Dmg/Rng(42), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Fire Shield -- ImpSkn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpSkn-ResDam/Rchg(45), ImpSkn-EndRdx/Rchg(45), ImpSkn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), ImpSkn-Status(46)
Level 47: Consume -- Erad-Acc/Rchg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(48), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(48), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(50), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(50)
Level 49: Fallout -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(50)
------------

[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]8% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]8% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]8% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]8% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]8% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]8% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]8% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]8% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]1.25% Defense(Fire)[*]1.25% Defense(Cold)[*]3.13% Defense(Energy)[*]3.13% Defense(Negative)[*]1.56% Defense(Ranged)[*]2.5% Defense(AoE)[*]7.2% Max End[*]2.5% Enhancement(Held)[*]1.5% Enhancement(JumpSpeed)[*]2.75% Enhancement(Terrorized)[*]1.5% Enhancement(FlySpeed)[*]1.5% Enhancement(RunSpeed)[*]60% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]1.5% Enhancement(JumpHeight)[*]4% Enhancement(Heal)[*]25% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]5% FlySpeed[*]118.3 HP (11.6%) HitPoints[*]5% JumpHeight[*]5% JumpSpeed[*]MezResist(Confused) 10%[*]MezResist(Held) 12.2%[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 19.9%[*]MezResist(Sleep) 12.2%[*]MezResist(Stun) 10%[*]MezResist(Terrorized) 12.2%[*]11.5% (0.19 End/sec) Recovery[*]4.1% Resistance(Fire)[*]4.1% Resistance(Cold)[*]5% RunSpeed[*]2% XPDebtProtection[/list]
[/ QUOTE ]

It would help if you would post the data link on your build so we could pull it up in Mids ourselves.

Consider taking Fire Blast. Not only does it give you a great attack chain in Blind-SW-Blast-SW, but it also gives you another place for a Decimation set. Fallout is extremely situational and very skippable. But if you are going to take it, you need to slot it up more. (I have it on my Earth/Rad who mainly does TFs, mainly just so I can say I have it and use it -- but if you want to see why I think it is extremely situational, take a look at my Earth/Rad guide. An Ill/Rad has other powers that will provide more benefit.)

Accelerate Metabolism: Try the Efficiency Adapter set. The full set gives another 5%, but unless you have enough global recharge, you may lose out on its own recharge. If so, replace the EndMod/Acc with a Recharge. You lose out on the recharge bonus, but the other bonuses are good, too.

No Deceive? It is very, very powerful. Plus, the Confuse purple set is one of the most affordable. 5 of them gives you 10% Recharge. Plus, the Contagious Confusion Proc turns the single target Deceive into Mass Confusion 1/3 of the time. Best proc for an Ill/Rad! I take Deceive on all of my Illusionists at level 4.

And a personal pet peeve -- why do folks take Swift/Hurdle at level 6? There are so many better powers that will actually help you survive and complete missions at that level. Take RI at 6, or even Air Superiority would be better there. Hasten can wait until 22, Mutation is skippable and could be put off until 49 or forever. I prefer Superior Invis at 8 so it can help you run around in safety early.

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I'm going with Fire Mastery, due to the quick AoE attack from Fireball (not to mention the damage) and the nice endurance recovery from Consume (which comes in handy for long battles). The shield is good for some resistance, but it isn't all that important, so if you want to pass it up for Fire Blast, then that's another quick and damaging attack in your favor.

Quite honestly, I mulled over all of the APPs for a long time and Fire Mastery seemed to have the best synergy with Ill/Rad. Of course, it all depends on your play-style, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my feelings, too. I tried Fire first, then tried Primal and tried the other APP sets on other controllers, and then went back to Fire.

Do not discount the benefit of Fire Blast! I think it is more important than Fireball, because it works very well in a Blind-SW-Blast-SW attack chain. Because of the spectral damage in SW, you want to take down foes fast to benefit from damage before the heal-back. A fast single target attack chain really helps. Oddly enough, you get more benefit by taking down minions first because you CAN take them out fast. That concentrates the attacks of Phantasm and Phantom Army on the higher level foes where you don't get as much benefit from spectral damage because they last longer.

[ QUOTE ]
Ice/Storm specifically can do very well but there are some areas I can see that might be troublesome. Foremost is the fact that for most Ice Controllers, a great deal of priority is put on keeping things close to you, where Storm tends to knock them away. The second potential issue is both the lack of a self-heal (unlike Empathy, Thermal, Radiation) and lack of reliable self-protection from mezzes (unlike Sonic, Force Field). Surviving solo will require developing a strategy that lowers incoming damage considerably; luckily Storm has powers like Freezing Rain to alternate with Ice Slick.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had little problem with knocking things away, as I use Hurricane only situationally. Cul de Sacs, corners, some positioning and panic button moments are when I used it, or if we needed some major ToHit debuffing. I almost never use Gale and didn't bother to slot it with a second Acc, which would be needed to make regular use of the power. Yeah Lightning Storm would knock things away on occasion, but with the chance for Hold proc in there, the foes knocked away were sometimes held, so not a problem.

[ QUOTE ]
I am trying to put together an Earth/Thermal build, but I am having trouble getting every power that I want.

As an Earth controller what powers should I skip (I am skipping the sleep for sure)?

Also, are there any powers I should skip in thermal (other than something like the rez)? They all seem like they need to be taken.

[/ QUOTE ]

On Earth, you can skip Salt Crystals and Stone Prison if you plan to team mostly. Stone Prison is really needed as a damage power if you try to solo.

Can't help you with Thermal, as I haven't played it very high.

[ QUOTE ]
How durable is Jack? Not something I have seen discussed much.

I am thinking of just trying both Grav/Storm and Ice/Storm.

Quick Earth question: Is Earthquake really needed (or quicksand for that matter)? With Stone Cages + Stalagmites seems like it is not really needed.

[/ QUOTE ]

For questions about the Earth set, take a look at my guide, linked in my sig. It has TONS of info on the Earth primary.

Earth has three AoE control options -- that is part of what makes it so good. One is Stalagmites+Stone Cages . . . but Stalagmites is on the same kind of timer as Flashfire, so it takes a while. Two is Earthquake -- very effective against most foes, and is often effective against much higher level foes. Third is Volcanic Gasses -- arguably the best AoE hold in the game, but also on a long timer.

Quicksand is glue that holds them all together -- I cast QS under each of the above three and find other uses for it. It has a HUGE 25% Defense Debuff -- it is worth using just for that. But QS also catches any foes missed by your AoEs, and makes it easy for your teammates to keep the foes grouped for AoE attacks.

Again, take a look at my guide for a lot of strategy tips for using the Earth set.

Jack is more durable than imps or Twoey (Venus Fly Trap), less durable than Rocky, Phantasm or Singy. He adds decent damage, some slow and a hold, all of which are very helpful.

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the replies.

So, when soloing as a Ice/Storm, do you typically want to setup containment or do you ice slick+ FR?

I am just trying to figure out the usefulness of the AOE Immobilize for the set.

[/ QUOTE ]

First, Ice/Storm is a pretty low damage set in lower levels. I set mine up to be able to solo, but I still avoided it whenever possible. To solo, I used Chilblain slotted up as a damage power. I would typically use Block of Ice-Chilblain, and then add in Air Superiority and vet attacks if I was in melee.

There really are no AoE damage powers unless you use major numbers of damage procs. Getting Jack Frost, Tornado and Lightning Storm made going solo OK, but it is still a better character on teams.

If you really want to go solo, you can put procs in Arctic Air (3 will go in it, but I use 2 as I didn't want to give up the utility of the power), Freezing Rain, Frostbite and Chilblain, and a few other powers. I use the Chance for Hold in Lightning Storm, which I love.

Solo, I mostly lead off with Ice Slick or Freezing Rain, then move in to control with AA, fire off Lightning Storm, and then, with some assistance from Jack, I take down the foes one by one with BoI-Chilblain-Ice Blast. If I want to do AoE damage, I'll throw out Frostbite and then Ice Storm and Tornado and Frostbreath. Ice Storm and Frostbreath get some benefit from Containment, but Tornado does not (it is considered a pet).

I really enjoyed my Ice/Storm all the way to 50, and still pull him out periodically. I played mine as a melee-oriented character who rarely used Frostbite (the AoE Immobilize).

Arctic Air is the key. Properly slotted with max EndRdx and Confuse, AA provides about 70% damage mitigation for your melee teammates. My standard strategy in lower levels was to let the tank go in and grab initial aggro, then cast Ice Slick. Run in with AA and Steamy Mist running to slow and reduce recharge on the few foes not falling down. SM also provides nice resistance to Energy, Fire and Cold, and a little defense. Hang around with the melee guys, using Block of Ice and Chilblain and Air Superiority to contribute damage. If things got out of hand, I had Snow Storm to add more slow and -Recharge. Freezing Rain then gave me a second Slip-n-fall power to follow Ice Slick, or I could open with Freezing Rain if I wanted the debuffs more. Hurricane and Glacier were my panic button powers, but Hurricane had other uses as well.

Later, as the storm powers filled in, I was able to add damage with Lightning Storm. I only took Frostbite at 30 so that I could use Tornado as a damage power without scattering foes everywhere. I find other uses for Frostbite on occation, but I don't use it all that often. Frostbite + Snow Storm + a touch of Hurricane is nearly a hold, but takes a while to set up.

Initially I tried the Earth APP, but later changed to Ice. Overall, it is a fun character with a good concept. (Devices that absorb heat to create atmospheric disturbances. Brother of the inventor lost the devices down a storm drain while his brother was being killed, so he goes by the name, Storm Drain.) What made him different was that he was one of my only controllers who was melee-oriented, but not focused on damage. Fire controllers are melee-oriented but focused on damage. The Storm powers made a huge difference in the character -- the only one I skipped was Thunderclap. I skipped Flashfreeze and Shiver in Ice.

At level 50, I most frequently use Storm Drain on ITFs. The slow has a huge effect on that TF, and I can anchor Snow Storm on the EBs and AVs so it lasts a while. Since many of the foes have knockback resistance, I can use Tornado and Lightning Storm with abandon. Ice Slick takes a back seat to Freezing Rain, but Ice Slick is still very effective against the 5th.

On Fire, don't worry much about the fragility of the Imps. Yes, they die, but not all that often if you have a secondary with a heal. I have a Fire/Rad at 50 and a Fire/Kin at 40, and both are able to keep the Imps alive most of the time. Just plan to slot a little Recharge in the imps. My Fire/Rad is one of my favorite characters.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm confused on Mind. I have a level 20-ish Mind/Kin and she never felt like she could offer good control on 8 man teams. I had very strong single target holds but nothing like the other sets abilities to stun or lock the initial alpha.

What am I doing wrong? I shelved her but I loved the Mind set. Do I need to push on?

[/ QUOTE ]

The AoE controls come from Mass Hypnosis (a sleep, which is very weak in a team setting), Total Domination (AoE hold with slow recharge), Terrify and Mass Confusion. I didn't take Total Dom until the 20's, so my only low level AoE was Mass Hyp. Once you hit the 20's and then get Mass Confusion at 32, you realize that Mind has very good AoE control. You get an extra AoE control power in exchange for a pet.

Most sets have two commonly used AoE control powers (not counting sleeps), but Earth and Mind have, in effect, three. (I'm counting AoE Stun+AoE Immobilize as one, and I'm not really counting Grav's Phase power. Some folks may argue that summary, but it is generally viewed that Earth and Mind have the most AoE control.)

I use a few factors to decide my APP for an Illusionist.

(a) Blind-Spectral Wounds has a gap that can be nicely filled with one of the single target blasts from the APP sets. Blind-SW-Blast-SW makes a great attack chain. Earth is the only set without a fast enough single target blast.

(b) Except for Phantasm's smashing/energy attack, all of Illusion's damage is Psi. In the later game, you run into a lot of psi-resistant foes, including lots of Robots. Having a different damage type really helps with these foes. All the APP sets except Psi would work for this.

(c) Illusion has no AoE damage powers, and has no AoE Immmobilize. Therefore, getting an AoE damage power would be a nice addition. Ice Storm does good AoE damage, but foes can run away without an AoE Immobilize. Ice also has Frostbreath, a cone. Primal has only a cone, Torrent. Fire gets Fireball, a fast damaging AoE available at 41. Psi Tornado's AoE is DoT but includes knockdown. Earth's AoE is very short range but includes some stun, activates fast and recharges fairly quickly.

(d) Each set has a key power that makes the set. Earth's is Earth's Embrace the heal/HP boost, but Seismic Smash is pretty good too as a melee attack. Primal's is Power Boost -- however, Illusion doesn't have many powers that will benefit much from Power Boost. Fire is Consume for Endurance recovery and Damage. Psi is periodic mez protection from Indomidible Will. Ice has Hibernate as a great panic button that lets you heal and recovery endurance.

(d) The armors are either Defense based (Ice and Earth) or Resistance-based (Fire, Psi and Primal). If you need another place to slot a Luck of the Gambler Recharge, you want a defense-based shield. Knockback protection can be put in either, but the Karma can also go in SI or GI. Also, the Earth armor is really, really ugly.

(e) Illusion has spectral damage in Spectral Wounds, Phantom Army and Phantasm's Decoy. This means that some of the damage heals back after a few seconds. If you are able to defeat the foe fast enough, you get to keep the spectral damage. Therefore, you want something that will help you kill off the foes faster. Powers with up-front damage will help more than ones with Damage over time. The AoEs in Fire and Earth are quick damage, as are the cones in Ice and Primal. Psi Tornado and Ice Storm are DoT.

I have one Ill/Rad at 50, another in the 40's. My 50 went with Fire, because of the single target blast, Fireball and Consume. I tried Primal at one time, but wasn't impressed for this character. My other Ill/Rad went with Ice for the single target blast, Hibernate and Frostbreath. I have the Psi set on my Fire/Rad, and tried the Earth set on my Ice/Storm. I've tried them all, and each one has some really nice features.

Each of the APP sets have good things that can be useful for an Ill/Rad. I haven't tried to get mine to the perma-PA stage -- don't want to put that much of an investment into one character when I have so many alts.

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the thoughts everyone. The plan for my buddy to stay ranged is his crazy idea. I've been telling him for days that he needs to scrap that idea and join me in melee. My Fire/Kin lives in melee and it's an incredible blast.

Local_Man, my current build plan is eerily similar to the build you posted, except I'll be using Set IO's and I'm trying to balance Set Bonuses against maxing the values of the power. Hot Feet, for instance, will be frankenslotted for Damage and Endurance and some Accuracy. My Fire/Kin has Obliteration in Hot Feet because I love the set bonuses and I really don't care about damage or endurance bonuses on my Kin. But it will obviously be much more important on this toon.

And I'm right there with you on the Lockdown Hold proc. I have that in Char and Cinders on my Fire/Kin and plan having it in all four holds on this toon. I luv those Tesla Cages.

[/ QUOTE ]

If your buddy wants to stay at range, suggest that he try a Plant/Rad instead. The cone in Seeds will complement your control, and the damage from Roots will complement your AoE damage. With your Hot Feet DoT and the DoT in Roots, you should be able to take the foes down pretty quickly. And Plant/Rad will allow him to play from the edges instead of in the middle of things.

[ QUOTE ]
If you're stacking Fire/Rads, definitely also take the Leadership powers--all of them, in fact. 2X Maneuvers, Assault &amp; Tactics becomes very powerful. Vengence on one or the other when things get through. Stack AM to get them perma quickly (you'll both need some decent recharge bonuses, but not nearly as much as solo). Stack Hotfeet, get containment, cast EF, things will die quickly. Both running Choking Cloud, w/RI &amp; your AoE stun/holds alternating means you shouldn't get touched much either (and again, Maneuvers is up). Really hard to mess up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dave, you and I agree on most things, but not so much here. I don't find a huge benefit to the Leadership powers at the expense of a constant drain of endurance. For Defenders, yes, but not so much for controllers. When the foes are held or otherwise controlled, taking an extra second or two to take them down doesn't matter much to me, and I would rather have those power slots for powers that I can get more utility out of.

Also, I admit to finding the Leadership powers boring. I would rather have a power that actually DOES something. You can see the effect of Choking Cloud, Hot Feet, and even the Rad debuffs. For Leadership, you get another damn toggle to have to turn on, that annoying animation and then . . . you do a little more damage and hit a little more often. In the rare instance where people die, you get a great buff.

On a larger regular team, the stacked leadership toggles are great. I have been on teams where everyone had them, and we simply tore through stuff. But there, we had so much End buffing that we were able to skip the Stamina pool and take Leadership instead. What three powers do you propose to skip to fit in Leadership?

In the end, it comes down to personal choice. I'm not that crazy about Leadership, but a lot of folks love it.

Here's a build I would suggest you consider. This is an SO build, that would obviously be different with IO sets. If you want, one of you could replace Bonfire with Smoke, or Assault, or whatever. You could choose to not take Super Speed. But I suggest that you both take all three of the Rad debuffs.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Fred the FRad: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- Acc-I(A), Hold-I(3), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(27), Acc-I(36), Dmg-I(43)
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(43), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 2: Fire Cages -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(3), EndRdx-I(11), EndRdx-I(31)
Level 4: Accelerate Metabolism -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(5), RechRdx-I(5), EndMod-I(36), EndMod-I(40), EndMod-I(46)
Level 6: Radiation Infection -- ToHitDeb-I(A), ToHitDeb-I(7), EndRdx-I(7), ToHitDeb-I(27), DefDeb-I(46)
Level 8: Hot Feet -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(9), Dmg-I(9), Acc-I(19), EndRdx-I(19), Dmg-I(23)
Level 10: Air Superiority -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(11), Dmg-I(46)
Level 12: Flashfire -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(13), Dsrnt-I(13), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(17), Dsrnt-I(17)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I(A)
Level 16: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Enervating Field -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Cinders -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(25), Hold-I(25), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 26: Lingering Radiation -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(37), Acc-I(40)
Level 28: Choking Cloud -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(29), EndRdx-I(29), Hold-I(34), Hold-I(34), Hold-I(36)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(33), Dmg-I(33), Dmg-I(33), Acc-I(34), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 35: Bonfire -- Dmg-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 38: EM Pulse -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), Hold-I(39), Acc-I(39)
Level 41: Indomitable Will -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Mind Over Body -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(45), ResDam-I(45), EndRdx-I(45)
Level 47: Psionic Tornado -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(48), Dmg-I(48), Dmg-I(48), Acc-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 49: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Containment

I have lately been running my Fire/Rad with the other Fire/Rads of my buddies, so I have some experience with this.

First, the idea of one being melee while the other stays ranged is a mistake. What makes FRads amazingly powerful in groups is stacking the effect of Choking Cloud + Hot Feet. You need both of you to have that combo on all the time. You can stack Flashfire + Fire Cages (to stun bosses), then both of you run in with CC+HF, and the imps trailing behind. Stand there while everything dies.

The nature of Choking Cloud makes it much, much more powerful when stacked. Then stack the damage from Hot Feet and have six crazy Imps running around killing statues.
I have the Rad debuffs, but only use them occasionally on bosses -- nothing else lasts long enough.

EF is worth taking, even if you don't use it often -- it casts quickly and helps you take down the foes fast. To handle the endurance issues, make sure you max slot Choking Cloud and Hot Feet with EndRdx, plus go for Recovery bonuses. But once you have it slotted up well, Endurance isn't much of an issue since you have double AM also.

Choking Cloud needs to be max slotted with Hold as well -- don't skimp, as it really affects the effectiveness of the power. Eventually, I strongly recommend the Lockdown +2 Mag proc -- especially with 2 or more people, it makes a noticable difference because of the unique way that Choking Cloud works.

Hot Feet needs max EndRdx, then as much Damage and some accuracy as you can -- standard SO slotting is 3 EndRdx, 1 Acc, 2 Dam. At 50, I have a little slow in there as well, as the slow keeps the foes in the CC+HF area longer.

At level 50, I strongly recommend the Gravitational Anchor Chance for Hold proc in Fire Cages. In our group, we often don't bother with Flashfire -- since everyone has that proc, we use Fire Cages as the opener and most of the foes are held with that proc when stacked. Then we run in, and green clouds (Choking Cloud) and tesla cages (Lockdown proc) pop up all over the place. Hot Feet eats away at their health while the fire imps bite off big chunks of health.

I skipped Fallout and Mutation from Rad (Mutation is nice, but I wanted both Fly and Super Speed). I skipped Ring of Fire and Smoke from Fire. With Super Speed + a Stealth IO, I find I don't need Smoke. (Or, just one of you could take it.) Super Speed lets me run around in missions to get in the best position to use CC+HF, and then run away if I need to.

If you had four or more Fire/Rads, you could skip Stamina and get by on stacking AM, but two doesn't give you enough recharge. Assault is a possiblility to boost your damage, but I don't have it. (Had it before, respec'ed out.)

On the debuffs -- take all three even if you don't use them all the time. I mostly use RI on AVs, EBs and really tough bosses, as the cast time is so long that everything else is dead. EF casts fairly quickly, as does LR. LR will keep the foes from running away very fast, and EF helpes take them down faster. They all stack nicely, so I say that you should both have all the debuffs. On AVs, remember that they have huge resistances to debuffs, so Ling Rad, while it makes a difference, isn't so effective that you would want to skip it on one of your characters. If you both have it, you don't need to worry about slotting it for slow. (My current slotting is 1 Acc, 2 Rech, Acc/Slow and Slow/EndRdx/Rech from Tempered Readiness. -- good accuracy, max recharge and a little added slow, plus a small Recovery bonus.)

Bonfire is situational, and you could easily get by with only one of you having it. I like it in various strategic situations, and I usually throw it on top of AVs with knockback protection to add some damage. I use it a lot on the ITF and STF.

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Maybe I'm hallucinating, but I swear I saw an option for "Earn XP" as if someone would want to turn it off.

Why would you want to turn off advancement?

Do you get any bonus influence like when you're exemplared?

Is it just for people to tweak out a level xx build for running yy TF?

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Not out-leveling content is one reason. Wanting to stay at a certain level to earn some more influence is another. (This is the one reason I used it for a short time . . . I didn't want to outlevel my enhancements and didn't have the infl to buy a new set, as that was my first character on a new server and I didn't have time to play the market.)

The main reason I see folks using this is to keep a character at level 46 to power-level lowbies.

Here's a quick Common IO build I just threw together. The order of slots is probably not what I would choose if I was building the character, but this gives you an idea of the important aspects of the power to slot (in my opinion).

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Mind-Rad: Level 50 Mutation Controller
Primary Power Set: Mind Control
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Mesmerize -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(3), Dmg-I(9), Dmg-I(19), Acc-I(31), Sleep-I(37)
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(19), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 2: Dominate -- Acc-I(A), Hold-I(3), RechRdx-I(9), Dmg-I(17), Acc-I(31), Dmg-I(37)
Level 4: Levitate -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(5), Dmg-I(5), Dmg-I(17), Dmg-I(25), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 6: Accelerate Metabolism -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(7), RechRdx-I(7), EndMod-I(37), EndMod-I(48)
Level 8: Confuse -- Acc-I(A), Conf-I(13), RechRdx-I(15), Acc-I(46), Conf-I(46)
Level 10: Mass Hypnosis -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(11), RechRdx-I(11), Sleep-I(46)
Level 12: Air Superiority -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(13), Dmg-I(15)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I(A)
Level 16: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Radiation Infection -- ToHitDeb-I(A), ToHitDeb-I(23), EndRdx-I(23), ToHitDeb-I(40), DefDeb-I(50)
Level 24: Enervating Field -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(25)
Level 26: Terrify -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(27), Dmg-I(27), Dmg-I(29), RechRdx-I(29), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 28: Total Domination -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(39), Hold-I(40), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 30: Lingering Radiation -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(31), RechRdx-I(42), Acc-I(43), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 32: Mass Confusion -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(33), Conf-I(33), RechRdx-I(33), Conf-I(34), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 35: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 38: EM Pulse -- Acc-I(A), Hold-I(39), RechRdx-I(39), Acc-I(40)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Energy Torrent -- Acc-I(A), Dmg-I(45), Dmg-I(45), Dmg-I(45)
Level 47: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 49: Telekinesis -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Containment

I used the Primal set because I feel that Power Boost is better for a Mind Controller than any other -- Power Boost before either Mass Confusion or Terrify is awesome, as it extends the effect for seemingly forever. Same with EM Pulse. Torrent now gives a second cone damage power, which is badly needed.

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Ok, so can anyone give me a typical ill/rad build that's not too expensive (read: No purples) but has perma PA?

Perma AM would be nice too.

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This is probably not possible -- because recharge bonuses are highly sought after, any Recharge oriented build is going to be expensive. Those Luck of the Gambler recharge IOs are VERY expensive. Same with sets that give recharge bonuses. Most of the folks with Perma-PA builds spend a LOT, unless they were really, really lucky with drops.

OK, so you are looking for a Mind/Rad that mostly solos . . .

First, if you want a TON of information on the Rad secondary, take a look at my Earth/Rad guide, linked in my sig. It has a section on strategy of using your Rad anchors and a lot of discussion on the Rad secondary. I have played a LOT of Rad, including 3 of my first 4 level 50s were Ill/Rad, Fire/Rad and Earth/Rad.

For Mind/Rad, I found it to be a tight build. Mind has only one power that is somewhat skippable, but can be useful -- Telekinesis is a situational power that can be quite effective, but you can live without it if you have to. Rad has three that I would suggest skipping for a solo build -- Fallout, Mutation and Choking Cloud. My guide talks a fair amount about Choking Cloud -- I love it on my Fire/Rad, but Mind doesn't have the kind of back-up to make Choking Cloud very effective. Mind is generally a ranged controller, and you don't need a PB AoE toggle that works only some of the time and takes a while to hit. You have better ways to spend your endurance.

Dominate-Mezmirize-Levitate is the key to a solo Mind Controller. With those three, you have a nice attack chain very early in the build. Take all three immediately. Slot Lev and Mez as pure attacks (1 Acc, 3 Dam to start, add a second Acc when you can), and Dom should be slotted with some damage, too. (I like 2 Acc, 1 Rech, 1 Hold, 2 Dam.)

Confuse is an awesome power. Because it generates no aggro, you can easily stack it on any boss and take it out of the fight even before the fight begins. You can turn any foes with mez powers into your assistants. You can sometimes get a buff. Solo, Confuse can make the standard 2-3 foes into an easy fight -- Confuse two, then use your Dom-Mez-Lev to take out the one left., refreshing Confuse as needed. Just make sure you do some damage to any foes attacked by the confused foe, and you will get more XP than you earn.

Solo, Mass Hypnosis is wonderful, too. It also generates no aggro, so you can put a group to sleep and then pick them off one by one. It also works great to set up Containment for Terrorize slotted as a cone damage power. Terrorize is one of my favorite powers in the set. Total Dom could be skippable if you have to skip two from the Mind primary, as it is on a long timer. I would delay it for a little while.

Mass Confusion is great, and would be awesome if it was on a shorter timer.

On the Rad side, take AM as soon as you can after Dom-Mez-Lev and maybe Confuse. RI is nice as soon as you can fit it in. Enervating Field can wait until after Stamina, as it uses a lot of endurance. Ling Rad is a slow that is mostly useful against AVs, so it can come later in the build. EM Pulse is a great "panic button" power that halts your Recovery for about 10 seconds. Worth having but not essential.

You probably don't need Air Sup as much as other controllers, since you have a nice attack chain -- you don't need to close to melee. But Air Supp is very nice to have, especially in low levels. My Mind/Rad has Air Sup/Fly because the concept required Fly. My Mind/FF uses SJ because CJ adds more Defense. Hasten/Super Speed is also a good choice.

Hasten is nice to have with this build, and I would suggest getting Stamina as close to 20 as you can fit it in. I couldn't fit in Leadership, but you don't really need it for a mostly solo character -- nobody to "lead." The buff for a solo character isn't worth the endurance.

I found that my Mind/Rad soloed well early, but got slower in mid levels. The damage doesn't seem to keep up with other controller builds, who get a big bump up with their pets at 32.

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How about Gravity controllers? what are theier limitations and how do they stack up?

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I'm probably not the person to talk about Gravity . . . it is my least favorite control primary. There are three interesting powers: Propel looks cool, does good damage but takes FOREVER to animate -- on teams, the target is often dead before you can hit him with a car or forklift. Wormhole is a unique tool for positioning and stun. Singularity is a unique kind of pet. Other than that, Grav is kind of boring, and severely lacks AoE control. I'm working on a Grav/Storm just so I can say that I have leveled up all the Controller primaries, but it is slow going.

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I'm not saying it's not a valid or solid set. I'm saying the reality &lt; the hype.

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Isn't the hype mostly "it's awful" ? I'd call it better than it's reputation, actually.

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Trick Arrow actually teams with Illusion quite well. Think about it. TA adds an AoE Slow, a second ranged single target hold, a ranged single target immobilize, an AoE sleep, an AoE knockdown (with fire damage) and a ranged AoE Hold, none of which Illusion has. All of TA can be used from range, and everything in Illusion except Flash is ranged -- and Flash is skippable for an Ill/TA.

Phantom Army gives an Ill/TA plenty of time to fire off those ranged debuffs and controls by pulling attenting to themselves. The debuffs make Phantom Army better. A well-played Illusionist doesn't get hit much, so the lack of a heal is generally not a problem. Oil Slick Arrow provides a nice control/distraction for when Phantom Army is recharging, plus it gives Illusion an AoE damage power, something Illusion does not have. Plus, since Phantasm and Phantom Army can attack from range, they are less affected by the Oil Slick Arrow bug (that causes pets to run away -- this is a real problem for Fire Imps or Earth's Rocky).

My Ill/TA was created specifically because I wanted to experience the Trick Arrow set. It worked great both solo and teamed. While I like Rad and Storm better as secondaries for Illusion, I can't think of any primary I would like better with Trick Arrow than Illusion. It really took advantage of all of TA's bag of tricks.

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What's the FoTM and how are Illusion controllers holding up? There hasnt been a guide about them since I9 from the looks of it.

What ae people enjoying these days and what kind of advice can you give to a newcomer to the Trolling profession?

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I'm working on an Ill/Rad Guide if I can ever find time.

Ill/Storm is very popular, especially for a solo 'troller. Ill/Rad is still the best all-around most flexible build. Ill/TA and Ill/Therm are very good, also. Ill/Kin is powerful even if it has some synergy problems.

The Fire/Kin is still the most popular controller because it can "farm" well. It is sometimes "looked down on" because many (most) of the Fire/Kins are power-leveled. Ill/Rad probably comes in at #2, although Plant is very good. Storm has become a more popular secondary.

Earth is generally the best AoE control set, but Plant is very good for AoE control and damage beginning as early as Level 8 (Seeds of Confusion is awesome, and the AoE Immobilize does more damage than others.).

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what powers should i keep and what do i not need?

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Plant - necessary: Strangler, Roots, Seeds of Confusion, Carrion Creepers. Strongly recommended: Venus Fly Trap. Optional, depending on your playstyle and intent: Vines is recommended, Spirit Tree (team) and Entangle (solo) are optional. Spore Burst is generally skipped.

Kinetics - necessary: Transfusion, Siphon Speed, Speed Boost, Transference, Fulcrum Shift. Optional: Siphon Power, Increase Density. Inertial Reduction is fully skippable if you take a travel power, or it can be your travel power. Repel is generally skipped, but it can be used as a situational defensive power.

On a team build, I would skip Spore Burst, Entangle, Inertial Reduction and Repel. I like Air Sup/Fly for travel.

Solo, try to take Entangle for the extra damage. Spirit Tree is skippable in either build, but it is a nice buff and looks cool.

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You must be on the ground to START the toggle. Once you've got it going, feel free to take off.

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Will it continue to do damage when you're not on the ground? I was under the impression that it does not, in which case flying around with Hot Feet is just pointlessly draining your end.

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It works fine when flying . . . In fact, I was using it last night while flying on my Fire/Rad. I was flying over caltrops. Just stay close enough to the foes and they are fully affected.

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I just started a Plant/Kin troller. I love plants, but the thing I've had my doubts about is that my main spammable control from spawn to spawn is an AoE confus.

Have you guys ever had ppl say anything to you asking you not confuse? I mean, you can clearly tell that you get less experience the mroe dmg the confused mobs do.

The control of seeds + the aoe immob is just so solid right after the tank goes in. Are you assuming that the xp lost is being offset by the ease you kill things with (since the confused mob dmg does aid in killing stuff faster). Unless you're being wreckless and confusing things nobody is anywhere near ready to kill, it shouldn't be an issue ya?

I figured as a Plants/Kin nobody would really tell you anything if they wanted speed boost. Let me know what you guys think.

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Simple: If people on your team are asking you not to use confuse because they fear lost XP . . . then it is time to get a better team.

You don't "lose XP" because you never earned it. Confuse powers can reduce the amount of XP available to earn, but the trade off is faster defeats, safer battles and getting XP that you did not "earn." As said above, you get 80% of the XP for doing 50% of the damage. Confuse powers are some of the best in the game, and if your team doesn't understand that, then explain it to them or find a new team.