LivingHellfire

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What's the deal? What are people so angry about? Is it the PvP thing? What is it, exactly?

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No...it's not the PvP thing...

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Are you serious?

So much for "we don't mind powerleveling", huh?

One more lie for the scoresheet!

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Here's the rib though, Smoke: it really IS only about the game.

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That's not true, dude... and you know it. If that were true then I wouldn't be going to your wedding.

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People are tearing up personal SG forums, phone lines, vent servers, skype, even OTHER MMO forum's about this situation, but they are trying to quietly sweep it under the rug. And as always, when something this large and emotion-driven happens, people obviously start to talk about walking. You will always have the groups that bid you goodbye happily, the people that are on the fence about leaving if nothing happened to them, and the people that point out the game won't miss those leaving, and that they are nothing but 'talk'. What NCSoft fails to see is that A) for some people it's not about walking to another MMO, it's about walking period. B) Not all of us are 14 and 15 year-olds living at mommy and daddy's house with them paying for our game subscription. We are adults, living in the adult-world with adult jobs, most of whom are in a professional field and not flipping burgers. How long does NCSoft think we're going to be pushed before we start to push back?

I agree with Philly, this entire situation was handled unfairly and VERY inappropriately. This will forever change the 'community', the players, everyone really. It put friends against friends in a way that never should have happened. When I was finally able to get a CS phone call back, I stressed every single point above and more, and they (plus all the OTHER CS I spoke) agreed with me. That unfortunately does not fix the problem or situation. Am I appeased so far? No. Not by a long shot. We are owed an explanation. We are owed an apology. Not (only) for the mistake, but the way it was handled.

Also, before this post gets modsmacked or edited in anyway. As per the forum rules, you are not allowed to discuss blah blah blah without permission. I did receive permission in said phone call last night. If you would like to know who gave me that permission, PM me and I will happily give you the name of the person I spoke with.

P.S. arG, I was editing this and had to talk to someone that came in my office and by the time I hit Continue it was gone *rolls her eyes* so its somewhat edited and correct.

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Alright, although I'm a vet, at the same time I've been gone for a while, and yet I've noticed that a lot of people are pretty pissed off.

What's the deal? What are people so angry about? Is it the PvP thing? What is it, exactly?

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*eyes widen...then goes limp*

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*walks away from a freshly dug grave... a broadsword, stuck in the ground, bears silent witness*

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Jude was an effete snob! He died on his knees. I took his head and [censored] his woman before his blood was even cold.

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*turns and stares, coldly*

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Maybe the Devs should make those useless kiosks have game information, similar to what the wiki has? Click on a kiosk would provide a menu-driven help section about everything in the game. I'd prefer game information to be available IN the game, not outside it.


Also, it's not just the lack of skill that annoys me, but worse is the lack of knowledge about the game.

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That's the best idea I've heard all thread.

And your'e right about ignorance... Nothing breeds certainty faster than ignorance.

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*eyes widen...then goes limp*

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*walks away from a freshly dug grave... a broadsword, stuck in the ground, bears silent witness*

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I only wish...I could have given you children...

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They would have been fine, and strong.

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*shivers, clutching Liv* You must promise me that you'll survive, that you won't give up, no matter what happens, no matter how hopeless. Promise me now, Rose, and never let go of that promise.

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Shhh... Shhh... Don't talk like that! You'll make it, I swear it!

We're in the Highlands, where else? You've got your sheepskins on... and the boots, that I made... for you...

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I got blasted by a bum!

Oh god...it's in my mouth.. HORK! BLORF!

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Quick! Someone bring me exactly three yellow peeps and my lathe from the tool shed!

NOW PEOPLE, MOVE, MOVE!!

C'mon, Judads, don't you die on me... don't you die on me!

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Better a Bum Soldier than a Bum Stalker. Just sayin..

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Wait 'till they announce the new epic AT.

FEAR The Bum Blaster!

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Whatever you think they might do, they haven't failed yet.

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I'm actually hoping they don't crash and burn as badly as I expect them to.

A direct, viable competitor for the superhero niche would help keep the devs honest.

Alas, I fear the dead weight of Mister Balance Vision is enough to sink their ship.

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Yah... I don't trust the guy at all, either. He shoulda stuck to table-top games and Greek mythology. I also fear mightily for Star Trek Online...

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The nearest I can think of something like this is EVE, where there are player reps elected who meet with the devs directly a couple of times a year.

They provide input on direction etc.

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I like this idea... I think it's a good one.

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Reveiwing GM decisions is IMHO beyond the scope of what player input should be, and there are very few folks on this forum that I would trust with the confidential data that would be necessary for this to function.

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Well, y'know, it's entirely reasonable to have player advocates who're elected or appointed for a short period of time that serve specifically to plead the case of the allegedly maligned. Of course, at the same time there's very little need as they can always just plead their own case, it's not like their access to the mods are cut off or anything for any reason.

Now, that being said, occasionally a player has a run-in with a mod or GM and an enmity develops. It's happened to me personally, and one of the things that really drive me crazy is that there's nowhere to go to complain. I mean... seriously, eventually you merely end up complaining to the one person who's maligned you in the first place with no access whatsoever to anyone else. When I had my conflict with Lighthouse a couple years ago I had nothing I could do... The Devs didn't want to hear it 'cause it's not their bailiwick, and despite hours of searching I couldn't find any contact information whatsoever to escalate it. So, what was I supposed to do? I literally lost by default, even though I'd not actually done anything wrong.

I'm not sure if this is the right answer, but there needs to be some mechanism for the customer to complain about crappy service or being mistreated, lord knows we're not allowed to do it here.

And, by the way, this is the only industry in the entire world that acts like this. No matter where else you go for service there's ALWAYS someone else you can complain to if the manager you're dealing with is being obtuse. Always.... but never in the online gaming industry.

I don't have the answer, but there's gotta be something that can be done.

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ew

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there really should be a guy's only area for this kinda stuff

just sayin

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You take the good, you take the bad, you take them all and there you have the Facts of Life.

Yes, the Facts of Life.

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Why does our server status page have a picture of a Council Soldier's bum?

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New AT.

Bum-Soldier.

Powers include

1. Whisp of Gas
2. Silent But Deadly
3. Prairy-Dog
4. Thunder-Drop
5. Aim
6. Butt-Munch
7. Colonic Expression
8. Hemherroidal Shift
9. Diahretic Annihilation.

Don't even ask about the Secondary powerset... although I will say that the fitness pool, Stamina especially, is highly reccomended.

Ironically... Hasten, not so much reccomended, at least by team-mates.

What exactly is your complaint? So far I've counted, like... four.

You're pissed off that some of us veterans don't think it's a good idea that a brand new player PL his first few characters instead of experiencing the game first.

You're pissed off that CO seems to have an advantage over CoH, and that somehow the developers have granted this advantage.

You're pissed off that the Devs seem to be maligning the players (a very old complaint, by the way, and one that is largely unfounded if you're attempting to imply that it's deliberate).

You're pissed off that there's no end-game content.

What exactly is the nature of your handicap?

Look, this thread is about whether or not people think that Newbies (new players, new accounts) should powerlevel their character. Not can they, or should they be allowed, but should they, as in, is it not unreccomended that they do so. Some say absolutely, some say never, but most of us are saying "probably not, but it's their dime".

I'm not the forum police, so I'm not going to bother trying to tell you to take your comments elsewhere, you have the same right as anyone else to post whatever you please within the rules of the forum, but you seem to have a number of issues that you feel are important, so you may get better results by having the discussion in a focused way. At the very least by sticking to one complaint at a time.

Quite frankly, I don't know how to respond to you at all, you seem to be this little ball of resentment and bitterness, so I'll just leave you to it, then.

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The scene: an AE team, everyone is autoexemped up to 50. On the team is a level 32ish Fire/fire Blaster. Please keep in mind that Bad has her own level 35 Fire/fire Blaster, so is aware of how these characters roll. [Bad's Blaster was not on the team at the time.]...

...

...BUT DON'T ASK OTHERS FOR BLUES.

/headdesk

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I feel your pain...

I've actually argued in the past that Fitness should be an inherent that unlocks over time. There are the odd players that don't take it and insist that it's not necessary and that you can run a character just fine without it, and they have a point... the problem is that a very specific build and playstyle are required to make up the short-fall for not having Stamina.

This is obviously a case where the guy had no idea how to play the game, or how the powers work in conjunction with one another. You're right, the reality is that if he sacrificed a few of those powers in his primary/secondary he could be far more effective (seriously, the idea of a fire/fire blaster without Stamina really ups the pucker-factor for me... especially given that my main has been a fire/fire blaster since launch) at "blowing stuff up".

There's not much you can do with a guy like that, but I'd likely have tried, much like you did, to educate him gently and let him know of a way he could accomplish what he wanted much easier, but if he kept it up I'd probalby just put him on /ignore for the rest of the mission.

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if they want to. It's a game. They should do what they want.

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LOL you have missed the point of this thread. Its one more way for the self righteous to tsk tsk people they don't care for. Reason and tolerance not welcome

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I think you'll find that there are actually very few people in this thread taking the position of abolitionist, saying it should never, ever happen. Most of us are saying it's probably not a good idea, but that ultimately there's nothing we can do about it. Moreover, that it's their game and their sub and they can do as they please.

But, quite frankly, we're allowed to think it's not a good idea. We're allowed to talk about it not being a good idea.

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What the hell do you guys do with all those characters? How can anyone have more than 3 ACTIVE toons, there's not enough time in the day to do any more than that.

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I think I have something on the order of 8000 hours on my main toon. I have four other 50s, but Doc Turg's the skin that wears the best. I know plenty of altoholics tho. I just shake my head at their schizophrenia.

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8000 hours is amazing. When I hit 50 I am done with that character. I'll bring it back on sometimes to assist or for a TF/SF, but there is really no reason for me to keep playing it so I don't . It's story is complete, but there are many other stories to tell.

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See, I'm the exact opposite. For me, 50 isn't the end of the road at all. For me, the story's ongoing, all the time. Just because your ability to grow plateaus doesn't mean the character or build isn't fun to play. I've had that illusion/storm since May 2004 - years before it turned into a FOTM variant, and the style/build with Doc Turg sits the best with me, partially because it's "my" personality when I play him. I have four other 50s that I really dig playing, but at the end of the day, when someone says "bring whatever toon your want", it's always Doc T that makes the list.

And yeah, different strokes for different folks. Some people love the variety, which I can respect; and DAMN, that guy with 270 toons he logs in for badges... I thought my 24 toons were bad enough. XD The best part about this system? It accommodates ALL player types!

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Yah, we're the same... I have no idea how many hours I have on Liv or his little brother Flamestripe (shameless plug), but it's at least in the high thousands, for each of them.

I seem to be the opposite of an altoholic. I have, maybe... 6 other characters aside from those two main characters. I love them all, but most of them languish in the thirties, covered in bed-sores, limbs flaccid and atrophied from inactivity. I haul them out now and then and put them through their paces for TF's when I can, but largely it's all about the Brothers McRae.

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And once more for the record:

We are not 'bashing newbies'.

We are *bashing NOOBS*. there is a DIFFERENCE. It's been stated several times before now, I suggest you actually read those posts about the clear and obvious differences between a new player and a noob.

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Bashing *anyone* is never okay. And that was *my* point.

Have a good one.

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But you called us hypocrites and cast aspersions on our motivation for forming teams.

The lesson for you here to is not to engage in a thread loaded for bear. You seem reasonable, but your initial post stirred Zekiran, and she's never been one that even I would mess with unless I really had my [censored] together. Bad move...

Aside from that, your point is taken, but the tone you've taken isn't likely to garner any friends.

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Oh, please.

I never fail to be amused at attempts to make one or the other forum-member look like a bad-a** who must be bowed to, scraped to and generally propitiated with all due respect/fear, lest said member Get All Medieval upon one.

This is an online forum, and me.... I don't bow to anyone. Maybe you do, which is your choice & have at it. But not everyone is going to do that. Anyone with an ego that needs propitiation on an Online forum is a pretty sad case, to tell the truth. I'm not here to salve anyone's ego.

As was previously mentioned, friends like some people here, I don't need. I would actually question myself were I to gain their [worthless, because we're all online] approval.

I see that mileage varies on that point, but c'est la forums.

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It's not about bowing, BI, and if you think it is then you need to have your head re-screwed on.

It's about knowing the regulars and knowing how they argue, that's all. Nobody likes losing an argument, and certain posters are particularily fearsome debaters. It's about respecting their ability to think rationally and critically and arrive at the logical conclusion of an idea. You can only watch debate someone and watch them for so long before you can arrive at a general idea of what to expect from them. In short, there are some posters that, after becoming familiar enough with them, one is more inclined to be sympathetic to their position simply because they so regularily hold the most rational and reasonable one.

If you want to criticise me, there's plenty to pick from, but "bowing" to acquaintances online is not one of them. There's a difference between paying someone a compliment, even if it was in sort of secondary, and cow-towing.

Ease up.

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So i got this present from my daughter, a framed photo of her and me... and a letter she wrote me, also in the frame..

The letter said this:

Daddy,
I love you with my entire heart! You are my Hero!
Even though sometimes we make each other mad,
or I disappoint you, you always come to my rescue.
And for that you will always be a level 50 in my eyes!!

Love, Emily

It was so sweet and funny i had to share it...

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Aww... and here I thought it wasn't easy being Gr33n.

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See this thread!

No. Newbies should not PL! It will skew their view of the game as a "Farm Fest" and they will find it harder to learn the REAL game!

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And then they'll get bored and leave and we wont' have to deal with them anymore...

Next.

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And once more for the record:

We are not 'bashing newbies'.

We are *bashing NOOBS*. there is a DIFFERENCE. It's been stated several times before now, I suggest you actually read those posts about the clear and obvious differences between a new player and a noob.

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Bashing *anyone* is never okay. And that was *my* point.

Have a good one.

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But you called us hypocrites and cast aspersions on our motivation for forming teams.

The lesson for you here to is not to engage in a thread loaded for bear. You seem reasonable, but your initial post stirred Zekiran, and she's never been one that even I would mess with unless I really had my [censored] together. Bad move...

Aside from that, your point is taken, but the tone you've taken isn't likely to garner any friends.

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The lesson here is that communication is key for running a team effectively.

I've had experiences like that in CoH, actually. It's never fun, but often I've found I can wrest control of the team away from the leader just simply by continually asking, over and over what the plan is. Eventually they either kick me (which is fine with me, if they'd rather kick me than talk to me then that's totally fine, I'll go do something else), or they answer me. Once they actually start talking it's pretty easy to stick a paddle in the water and help direct a little.

Something I've found over the years and years I've played the game is that very often the people who complain about the players on their team are actually crappy players themselves who don't know how to lead effectively. With the right guidance and motivation anyone can become a decent player on a team and a standard that I try very hard to always apply to myself is the idea that if my team sucks, then I'm not doing my job.

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I've often found, that people who brag about their leadership skills and rational virtues, in game are in fact crappy leaders.

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Very often they can be, yes. There have been occasions where I've been an absolutely terrible leader, failing to understand the individual playstyles of my team, the way they've built their character and their individual comfort levels, leading to whipe after whipe after whipe. None of us are perfect.

EDIT - What I can say, though, is that it's not the standard. It's happened int eh past and it'll happen again, but ultimately it's neither the standard for me, nor is it the usual. What it is, however, is still my fault. And it does no one any favours to come to the forums and whine and piss and cry about how the players on my team all sucked when it's so completely obvious to anyone paying attention that there was something I could have done about it.

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If someone wants to cheat themselves out of the game experience though that is their prerogative.

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Players define their own enjoyable game experience, nobody else.
Not you, not the devs.

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There's a difference between telling someone how they should play, and a bunch of vets sitting around talking about whether or not it's a good idea for a newbie to PL their first character to 50. I sort of see this as the latter.

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I . . . agree, reluctantly.

If a newbie asked me if they should I would say, play the game regularly at least once.

Especially if it's a character that's tougher to play for a newb (read: no mez prot, no defensive shields, etc).

However, I would still say "it's up to you to play how you want. It's your game."

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/shrug... that's the thrust, really. There's not much else to it.

I get a kick out of this debate, ever time I see it because it's invariably carried out by all participants as though there's somethign to be decided, or as though the discussion will resolve something. As though somehow if we can come to a concensus then all of a sudden people will change their behaviour.

"Really? A bunch of people I do'nt know had a discussion on an internet forum that I never read? They what? They decided that newbies shouldn't powerlevel?! Well, [censored].... that ruins my fun. I guess I'll go play Halo."

I mean, seriously...

However, in all fairness I hope they never stop happening, I love these argument threads.

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You can give anyone you run across a note for your own reference. Its kind of like flagging someone instead of putting them on your ignore list. It reminds you of why you either liked or disliked someone or whatnot.

Just right click them and add note.

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oh ok, but its for your own use. no one else sees the notes and stars you gave the player. only you see the notes you added right?

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You can see your own notes, but nobody else can, they're yours. However, the star rating you give and recieve is viewable by all.

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So people can go around arbitrarily one starring ppl and theres nothing you can do about it? If that's the case, its extremely unfair and has the potential for unwarranted bias.

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As far as I know that's how it works.

That being said, I've never used the system, I tend to ignore it as I feel very much as you do. I could be wrong about the mechanics of it, though, as clearly I have little experience with it.