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  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
    As you know from discussions we've had, I'm no fan of the Praetorian pets. But other than that particular slot, I don't really see the Incarnate abilities as significantly increasing the homogeneity of players at level 50.

    Yes, probably most hardcore characters will have the first five slots filled in a few months. But the great boon of the Incarnate system is that folks can choose where and how deep to go into a particular pool. Like Inventions, you can craft your own path to power.
    That's why I said "in a year or two". There's no opportunity cost between the slots, so while you might shoot green lightning, and I might shoot yellow lightning, and Joe Bob shoots green fire, we all have a super-damage AoE. And so will the other people we are teamed with. Common, rare, very rare-- that's mostly about effectiveness. I'm talking about the very fact that we all have a high damage AoE and a massive buff (and the pets, which are obviously the most visible aspect, but I don't want to focus on them).

    That's what I'm asking about-- not 5 months from now while there's still some variety, but 1-2 years from now when, on the raids they have then (and on all level 50 content! Imagine this on the ITF and LGTF, and STF, etc), people are firing off their Destiny powers in a cycle and alternating Judgement. Even leaving the pets out of it-- I'm asking, how do you feel about that?

    If your response is the same, and you figure people won't bother with filling every slot, that's cool. I just want to make sure that I'm being clear.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
    Yes, I hadn't thought of it that way, but that's probably a better way to look at it than seeing the Incarnate abilities as "levels". It's kinda like the old, old Dungeons & Dragons Immortal class.

    You were born as a mage, thief, fighter, or cleric, but once you become an Immortal you have a new character class and new abilities. You haven't really forgot what you knew before, you've grown into a whole new set of abilities.
    And that's really the perspective I would like people to have when answering my questions (hey guys, please answer the questions )-- How do you feel about EVERYONE effectively having the same AT in the end? I might have a Blue Void Judgement and Yellow Clarion, and you might have a Red Ion Judgement and Purple Ageless... but we both have a big AoE and a big Buff (and "it's still different enough for me" is a valid answer, I just want to make sure people understand the questions).

    I particularly hope Arcanaville pops in here, because she's talked about mechanical homogeneity in the past.
  2. In a year or two from now, at level 50, most people are likely going to have a better-than-blaster-tier-9 AoE attack, an AoE buff, and Praetorians for pets. They will also likely share other visible powers that we don't know about yet. (The Alpha slot and Interface slot are not relevant to this discussion, as they are not visible, or at least, Interface doesn't appear to be.)

    In another thread, someone (leaving names out of this) said, regarding the Praetorian pets, "they're specific to an enemy faction and hard to sell as your OWN powers". The response was: "They aren't your powers. They are powers that you're taking (or being granted) from the Well of the Furies."

    Last night, on one of Virtue's global channels, someone said something similar, that they didn't think they could pass the Lore slot off as their own abilities. The response was hostile and rude, and involved some swear words and laughing, but the important phrase used was: "You're not a special snowflake. You're an Incarnate."

    I thought that was an interesting point. It does appear that, while there will be some minor differences, the end game system will make everyone more homogeneous. Back in the early beta of the game, it was changed from a free-form system to an AT system, because they found that everyone took the same powers. This led to a lack of diversity and "tank-mages". This thread isn't about tank-mages, but the diversity issue is what it is about, and I'm curious if people feel that Incarnates are showing that the devs think differently about the issue now. So, I have the following questions:
    • How do you feel about the powers themselves based on the information that has been released so far, including in the sneak peaks and threads about them (here's a decent one, here's another, there are more), in terms of gameplay and how you feel about your characters having them (regardless of the lore)?
    • How would you feel about your characters if everyone else had a significant number of extremely effective and visible powers that are similar or identical to yours? (If you are choosing to skip these powers, please instead say how you would feel about everyone else having the same or similar powers)
    • How do you feel about the lore concept that Incarnate powers are not really yours, but granted by/stolen from an entity that has been stated to be insane (in the issue 20 overview)? How do you feel about your fellow heroes/villains being given/stealing these powers by/from that entity? If you plan to ignore the lore for your characters, go ahead and say so, but give your opinion on it too if you have one, please.
    • Do you believe that character diversity is an important part of this game in general? If so, please say why, and from the information you have so far from the sneak-peaks or the threads about them, what impact do you feel the Incarnate system will have on that diversity, and the game as a whole? If not, why not?

    Obviously feel free to expand on the topic in whatever ways you see fit.

    Important note: this post is not just about the Lore slot. It's about Incarnates in general, and how everyone is going to share many extremely visible and powerful abilities at the end.
  3. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Sermon View Post
    I didn't read the whole thread, but do any people think that the i20 image is a bit odd? Any chance customizable travel powers might be waiting in the wings with the fly-poses featured? Otherwise, that image makes for terrible preview material.
    What strikes me odd about it is that not one of those characters looks like what I expect from a superhero or supervillain.

    But then the promotional material for this game, in respect to player characters, has been like that for some time.
  4. I want to express my gratitude for the fix to the respec trial badges, and the Villain TF covering the 30-35 level range. Thanks!
  5. We have the best community ever!
  6. I like the fact that Powers can function differently in PvP than in PvE, so that if a power is too powerful in one, it doesn't have to change in the other as well. There hasn't been a single complaint about powers being nerfed in one because of the other, since.

    That's about all that I like about the current PvP experience (I didn't like it prior to I13 either, just FYI. I think there need to be more PvP minigames like CTF, and less PvE objectives placed in PvP zones, and there needs to be some way to balance the number of players on each side for zones).
  7. Davis/Claremont's Excalibur was my favorite comic in the 80's. I didn't even bother reading what else was on the poll, I just found it and clicked it, because I loved it that much.

    Too bad the fun only lasted for about 2 years before it started to suck.
  8. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kinrad View Post
    Ugh. One of the worst actors ever. He can only play himself.
    Agreed. I can't stand Costner.
  9. Here are some additional issues that I think the average player has working against them:

    1) They don't slot very well. They may not even slot with SOs. If they do, they may slot over the ED cap because they either don't know about it, or think (and I quote, when I explained it to one such person) "every little bit helps", when slotting some other effect or moving that slot to another power would help them more. They may even refuse to change when they do learn how ED works.

    2) They don't use inspirations very well, or every often (my old roommate's insps were not in any order, and he'd just tap the F keys until he got something that helped).

    3) They don't use powers tactically-- they just tap them in order as they come up against whichever target they picked first. They don't use their stun/hold on dangerous targets ASAP, they don't save Nemesis LTs for last, they don't attempt to knock down Paragon Protectors before they pop MoG, etc.

    4) They don't use positioning tactically-- they stand in debuffs and sometimes even damage patches while fighting.

    5) They think a power does something it doesn't do (or does it for longer, or some variation of this), and continue to use it in a very sub-optimal way. I still run into people that are otherwise capable of using their powers properly, but have Build Up on Auto.

    I know multiple people that fall in one or more of these categories. I know some people that do one or more of them some of the time, but not all of the time. All of these people are awesome people, and great fun to team with. Most of them would probably have quit if the game had been as hard as Praetoria is at release, and never played any other MMO, and never would play any other MMO. CoH originally drew a new group of people to it that were not MMO players, and I think it was specifically because of how it differs from other MMOs.
  10. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Atomic_Woman View Post
    I also used a LOT of inspirations.
    Then at that point, maybe it did help you, since it reduced the number of purples required to make them miss!
  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Atomic_Woman View Post
    Kind of a tangent, but did they remove the ability to change your screen name? I was going to change mine to my global handle when I resubbed but I can't find an option for it anywhere in my profile - but I KNOW it was there before ('before' being 2+ years ago, though...)
    They did when they switched to the new forum software. You might be able to PM Avatea or Zwillinger and ask for yours to be changed, though.
  12. Quote:
    Originally Posted by EvilGeko View Post
    My screen name wasn't always EvilGeko. I'll just be upfront. I thought the original powers dev, Geko was an idiot. There were posts he made that literally had my jaw dropping at the amount of stupid.

    The fact that he didn't accept PMs from the beginning and seemed impervious to common sense did not endear him to me. It was a wonderful day for this game when Castle took over.
    It really was. Once he took over, we received unprecedented information about the game, and someone in charge of powers that listened to logic and reason.

    Castle leaving made me pretty sad.
  13. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Atomic_Woman View Post
    I remember the day Liquid and I found out that Invuln/ could have 100% S/L resist at level 26 (or maybe it was 23, something ridiculously low like that) without having it ever mentioned anywhere during the beta or to that point in release (this was pre-I1). I think my jaw was literally hanging open at the realization that nobody had thought some sort of cap on damage resistance would be a good thing, or that nobody had tested for it during the beta (and/or hadn't reported it if they had).
    And I remember Havok insisting that I was wrong, and saying that the game engine was rounding down to get 0 for the display, on attacks that did more than 100 damage.

    And it was level 22-- as soon as I got SOs.
  14. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Atomic_Woman View Post
    Funnily enough, I soloed a DE tip the other day (the one about defusing bombs) at lvl 50, +0x8. My MA/Inv has pretty good defense (roughly 31% S/L and 35% E/N/F/C before factoring in Invincibility) but at that setting I was seeing up to 3 Guardians per spawn. I did get beaten down once (mostly because I was getting cocky) but I finished the mission, because as annoying as the emanators are there are ways to negate them (kill them first, drag mobs away from them, etc). But then again that specific character is extremely tweaked for performance, and not many characters that haven't had 1.5 billion Inf* pumped into them could have done the same. Being able to do that is the 'reward' for spending so much time/Inf* kitting out one character, as I see it.
    Taking out the Quartz ASAP, and pulling them away from them helps a ton.

    However, one of those Quartz provides enough +Def to almost negate your entire 1.5 billion inf build (since bulk of it is +Def) and anything Invincibility can offer, and put them at the tohit cap. If you soloed a x8 DE Tip mission with only one death, it was because you have over 70% S/L resistance due to stacking Tough on Invuln, and DE are, with the exception of Devoured spit and mushroom holds, entirely S/L. It's not the inf and time that you spent. Sorry, Atomic.
  15. Quote:
    Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
    Do you think it was a conscious decision on his part that it worked out to be quite so heinous in cases like this?
    I heard a story about Geko being defeated by Pohsyb's Ice Tanker in PvP being the catalyst for the GDR. I have no idea if that's remotely true, but it's funny.
  16. Quote:
    Originally Posted by mousedroid View Post
    Only if he hides in a fridge to escape a nuclear bomb in the first act.
    There would have to be Nazis or Russians involved, then.
  17. We need John McClane vs Aliens.

    They should make another movie like The Expendables, but actually use the characters instead of just the actors. I don't care how they do it, I want to see John McClane, Ellen Ripley, Captain Kirk, and Sarah Connor teamed up with Jack Burton as comic relief. The storyline could be that a group of terrorists that have taken over Weyland-Yutani tower discover that Lo Pan has supplanted the CEO and ressurected Khan Noonien Singh to lead a cybernetic Xenomorph army, and only one man... I mean wom... I mean 5 people can stop them.
  18. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Atomic_Woman View Post
    This is a good point, and I'm actually not averse the the shard cost getting adjusted down. But at the end of the day, no matter what the total comes out to be, crafting a Notice via shards needs to be noticably slower than gaining them from the WTF if only because the WTF is how we 'should' be getting them and the devs are trying to incentivize it. I'm all for a conversion recipe but if it takes a week to get a Notice via the WTF 9because of the cooldown) then I think the absolute ceiling on the ability to craft one should be 2 weeks (whether via a cooldown or just being balanced around the median of how many shards characters earn in 2 weeks).
    I agree with that. I think either Arcanaville's solution or a cooldown would be good.

    I'd really like some challenging solo and small team content to deliver Incarnate related rewards, but I can wait for it.
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
    I also think the game probably wouldn't have lived terribly long without the market. City's gear-less concept was an interesting experiment at first, but it's not really the way to make money in the MMO market. It's like trying to take the "grind" out; for all players gripe about the grind, games that try to remove it usually don't live long.
    I've noticed this, and I think it says that MMOs, in themselves, usually aren't all that fun, and most people play them for the sense of accomplishment. I think this one is, personally, which was why I was perfectly happy before I9, but I may have been in the minority there.
  20. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Atomic_Woman View Post
    Since I am apparently one of those filthy powergamers (I don't feel I am but I have been labeled as such) I did a LGTF earlier this morning in 39 minutes. That was me, another 'powergamer' friend, 2 people I didn't know who I guess also count as 'powergamers' and 4 people that basically rode our coattails since we were doing a speed run anyway. I'm not saying every TF team is like that, but if you see something like "Speed LGTF lf4m" and can't devote 30-40 minutes to getting a Notice, well... have fun farming for a hundred hours for one?
    You can't guarantee those times though. I've been on "Speed TFs" that took 3 times as long as expected. Some people have limited times that they can be on, and winging it like this risks them being put in a position where they may have to quit the TF, which isn't fair to their teammates.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by TonyV View Post
    Quick question: What about PvPers? If I only play enough PvE content to level up and spend the rest of my time PvPing, and I refuse to play PvE content otherwise, are the developers obligated to provide some path to Incarnate content to me?
    They already do. Shards drop from PvP kills. I think the conversion rate issue probably applies to them too.

    Quote:
    If they give the very rare rewards for defeating 500 enemies in PvP content, am I justified in calling that a "middle finger" to PvPers, complain about how much that shows that the devs hate PvPers, and break down to the nth degree how just because some hard-core PvPers can defeat 40 or 50 enemies a night, because I'm a "casual" PvPer who doesn't farm PvP victories, they should set the bar much lower?
    It doesn't justify you being rude, no. But it does justify you giving feedback if you feel the costs are unreasonable.

    For casual PvPers, maybe they could give bonus shards for the first X kills of the day, instead, or for taking down your bounty in Siren's Call.

    Quote:
    It seems a bit disingenuous to have an outcry against the devs for not catering to anti-teamers without it being an outcry against the devs for not catering to other play styles as well.
    I totally agree.

    Quote:
    What about the serious RPers, the people who don't like doing missions at all? Shouldn't we also have some GMs posted in Pocket D to determine, "Okay, you've RPed for 50 hours total, here is your Notice of the Well."? I mean, they have to cater to all of our individual play styles, right?
    Here's where I don't agree. RPers are unique in that they do not, in any way, expect rewards for RPing. RPing is the reward. They enjoy it, and therefore don't need rewards. For hardcore RPers, RPing is miles more fun than anything else this game has to offer.

    And more importantly, Incarnate Powers provide nothing to RPers. An RPer that wants a massive AoE attack or whatever else the slots provide, can simply say that they have it. Incarnate powers only work in PvE and PvP content, so expecting them from non-PvE/PvP activities seems like wanting cleats to play tennis with.

    Quote:
    What about people who only enjoy playing with the market? If you buy/sell 5000 items on the market, should they give you a Notice of the Well? Is that number a "middle finger" to people who only casually use the market?
    That's an interesting question. Personally, I don't think literal markets belong in a superhero game, but if Wentworth's was themed as a research lab where heroes exchanged evidence and confiscated weaponry, and you were playing a scientist that was doing his/her best to analyze said evidence and help provide superheroes with knowledge or short-lifespan gadgets to take down villains, yeah, maybe the Well should notice them. I think it would notice Reed Richards even if he never beat up any bad guys with his own hands.

    But then, we're asking for cleats to play tennis with again. What good do Incarnate Powers do for Marketeers?

    Now, if Incarnate Powers only worked while in teams, then yeah, them asking for a solo-only path would be analogous to RPers and Marketeers asking for one.
  22. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Atomic_Woman View Post
    I don't consider the above post to be representative of any argument that's actually been put forward in this thread.
    When we level up, we get new powers. They can't really raise the level cap due to various mechanical reasons, so they're instead allowing us to get new powers without, technically, leveling up.

    So, if Incarnate powers are locked off from a certain segment of the playerbase, then yes, it's very much like "I get level 30, you get level 50".

    Now, they aren't technically locked off if we can get everything in the system via shards, but depending upon the costs associated with unlocking and slotting the other incarnate powers, they may be locked off in practicality. A lot of people are assuming that the other Incarnate powers will cost the exact same amount of shards for each level as Alpha powers. I think this is pretty presumptuous given the tradition for each successive increase in power taking longer in MMOs. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we still have no idea what it takes to unlock the slots themselves, since Shards aren't used to unlock the Alpha. Maybe they have a way for Shards to do that, but we don't know the number required for that, either.

    That being said, I know that Arcanaville is not a proponent of locking (whether literally or practically) Incarnate powers off from players that don't want to/don't have time to team, so that response wasn't really very fair to her. She may be a proponent of locking the Rares or Very Rares off, however.
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Djeannie View Post
    Christ, games are supposed to be all about having fun and progressing yourself in a fun manner. When did everything get so bogged down in time spent to do x?
    When we started paying a subscription fee instead of just buying a box. They have to keep as many people as possible interested, and they can't put out content fast enough to keep the powergamers interested.

    This is why I like the Guild Wars model for an MMO. I wish I liked the game itself (not enough tights and punching)!
  24. Quote:
    Originally Posted by mousedroid View Post
    Alanis?
    No, it really is irony! He said 4 felt like a non-Die Hard movie with John McClane shoved in, and that 5 should be more like 3.

    Which actually was a non-Die Hard movie with John McClane shoved in.
  25. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Forefinger_ View Post
    Die Hard 4 was another story altogether and they just rammed John Mclain in there to make it a Die Hard movie. If they would make another Die Hard movie in the vein of the 3rd or something, that would be cool.
    Irony alert. Die Hard 3 was originally a non-Die Hard script called Simon Says, and was at one point considered as a Lethal Weapon sequel.