Linea_Alba

Try :

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...art=1&vc=1
and
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat....rue#Post5317188

I used Gnu Awk and just create a file for each bind.

random.bat
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>@echo .
@echo WARNING: This version of gawk only recongized 8+3 file names
@echo WARNING: as-in: asdfwxyz.abc - Please use short file names.
@echo .
@gawk -f random.awk *.in</pre><hr />

Input File
Line 1: output bindfile name
Line 2: output format string for printf
Line 3 to EOF : random strings for %s in printf
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
sakae1.txt
ctrl+t "%s$$bindloadfile .\random\sakae1.txt"
local I am a Butterfly. $target is a flower.
local I'm a Dog, and $target is my bone!$$em Growls Menacingly!$$em roar
local Hey $target, Bite This!$$em bow
local I am a Tiger, and $target is a wet noodle.$$em laugh
</pre><hr />

Awk File random.awk
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>BEGIN {
R_NOF=0;
}

{
if (FNR==1) {
f=r_ofn[++R_NOF]=$0;
next;
}
if (FNR==2) {
r_ofmt[R_NOF]=$0;
s=r_strn[R_NOF]=0;
next;
}
r_str[R_NOF,++s]=$0;
r_strn[R_NOF]=s;
}

END {

for (i=1;i&lt;=R_NOF;i++) {
r_ctr[i]=0;
}

for (infinity=0;infinity&lt;36000;infinity++) {


for (i=1;i&lt;=R_NOF;i++) {
s=r_ctr[i]+1;
file=r_ofn[i];
printf(r_ofmt[i],r_str[i,s]) &gt; file;
close(file);
if (s&gt;=r_strn[i]) { r_ctr[i]=0; }
else { r_ctr[i]=s; }
}
system("sleep 1");
}
}

</pre><hr />

The Short Answer: IF there were NO inspirations in game and never had been, I would have to (re)test MoG to see if it was worth it overall in exp/min. Without testing in that environment, I simply can't say one way or the other.

With NO inspirations in game or ever invented, I honestly can't say if then I'd take MoG or not. I'd have to take it, test it, then decide. I'd be faced with
a) Use it, die, but take more mobs with you.
b) Use it, win, then sit on my hands two more minutes, potentially greatly slowing exp/min. (would have to test extent and magnitude.)
c) Die, use revive more often. (would have to test this vs MoG for Exp/Min for self and Exp/Min for team.)
c) Shift TEAM tactics and makeup.

Unless B had very little overall impact, I'd be more inclined to take C, a bit worse for me, but better for the team overall. But without play testing it and adapting my style with that specifically in mind, I can't say. A+C is also a strong possibility. Considering Mob types, It would even then, likely end up some combination of (C) + (A+C) depending on what the team was facing. I might also just shift in team makeup. Consciously always choose more FF or Sonic Def/Con. Right now I only conciously shift the team toward minimal -regen, otherwise keep the team open to any def/con or other. The end team being at least 1 -regen, at least 1 FF or Sonic, At least 2 other Def/Con, and then the rest. That would however make solid teams many magnitudes harder to find and recruit. I would certainly not consider that an improvement.

[ QUOTE ]
A legitimate argument that MoG is flawed is comparing its overall performance during its situationally useful windows. There, we're talking about its defensive strength, and its lack of regeneration, as part of its *overall* total strength, not a "strength vs weakness" issue. Its one of the reasons I originally calculated, then claimed, that MoG lasts too long (and suggested a proper running time for it: about 120 seconds, depending on certain factors). I also agree (and was saying long ago) that another inherent design error (in my opinion) with MoG is that it locks out *all* external buffing, not just regeneration (which its designed to do). MoG scrappers cannot be effectively defense or resistance buffed, on top of being unable to be regeneratively buffed or healed, which does not appear to be explicitly intentional, but a nasty side effect of the power's mechanics.

[/ QUOTE ]

"strength vs weakness or overall strength" we'll have to agree and disagree. I think when, where, how often, and what circumstances is just as important as how well it performs when it's performing. When I'm choosing what power to choose next, all those things are important.

MoG fills the "other shoe" is a good point.

As to duration, I have agree, it lasts too long. However I feel, subjectively, it should be 60 seconds max. For me 2 minutes (or even 1 minute) of hand sitting doesn't balance out the 1 minute of performance. But for others it may, just make sure they understand the downside.

The specific instance of non-psy AV's is a good point. If one were specifically building as an AV killer MoG might be a good choice. I'm not building an AV killer, however.

As to external buffs, if that were changed that could certainly be an advantage. Depending on what external effects were allowed you could potentially make MoG a near god-mode. So while a good place to look for changes, that really doesn't help in picking the power now.

[ QUOTE ]
and if you picked a bad time, it will be utter idiotic suicide.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's sorta one of the arguments against MoG. It not only "fails" to work in some situations, it fails so specatularly that it's "utter idiotic suicide". In some of those situations it actually substantially helps the enemy rather than simply having "no effect".

[ QUOTE ]
. Many times, MoG took my life to save my friends, and it suited its purpose there too. MoG isn't about YOU, its about your team. My motto in-game has always been "my life for you" and MoG really makes this possible. Many times it will result in my death, but a few of those will really be great moments of glory.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would make a good, and fairly informative power description. If people chose the power with THAT in mind, I'd hardly have an objection. Of course that statement isn't exactly a resounding endorsement of the power.

[ QUOTE ]
... In fact, this posting has a lot of explanations you are asking for too, all I ask there is that you read them before posting that this information is not being presented to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read the entire post, and just reread it all to see what I may have missed.

So we have 3 useful posts, and 2 neutral posts out of 80 ?

The signal to noise ratio is even worse in the other MoG posts I've read. If you want dev attention you need to increase the signal level. If this is going to be an "definitive" "guide" or "reference" for the MoG debate, then make it just that. Present your arguements concisely and completely and leave the bickering in the other threads, there's plenty of it there.

On the other hand, this thread may already be past saving.

On the "MoG is good" side of the debate, all I see is Arcana's post. Unless you want to count the "MoG only sucks because you suck" posts.

Arcana's arguement is not enough to sway me into the "MoG is good" camp. I'd like to see enough of an arguement that I could at the least say "MoG is good HERE, MoG is nuetral HERE, and MoG is BAD HERE" when someone asks me about the power. Right now I'm left with "Some People swear by it, but I see little proof of it's benefits (beyond large egos). Others, and it appears to be a majority, Hate it. There seem few opinions in-between. Personally, if you're asking the question you're not likely an experienced enough player to benefit from MoG, a power that appears to only be useful to an elite highly skilled few." (and when it's a level 50 regens asking that question, It makes me wonder what exactly were the dev's thinking)

So I really do want to know, what makes MoG a good power. What makes it's benefits outweight it's penalties. Can it's benefits truely be used more often than it's penalties.

And no I really don't want to read 800 or 8000 posts of garbage and flaming just to find 8-10 usefull posts. If you're serious about making this a MoG reference then make one and present both sides and don't make people have to search thru and read the likely thousands of flames and useless garbage.

Asking someone to read all the MoG posts is like asking someone to read all the "taunt vs no taunt" posts in the tankers forums. yet I did somewhere manage to find a good guide to taunting (or not taunting) there. A guide that presented the facts and let the user make their own decision. If they chose to taunt, it presented the best way to go about doing just that. If they chose to not taunt, it presented the best way to use guantlet instead. A similar resource for MoG would be very useful, I would think.

[ QUOTE ]
...I use MoG and you're bitter that I've learned how to use it and you poo poo on it every chance you get. I'll still hold that it is a truly heroic power for those experienced enough to use it correctly. You have proven you are not one of those. Let it be, let it go. I'm ok with you not liking it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That statement pretty much invalidates itself, you're basically saying "he's too stupid to use MoG, but you're smarter than the average bear and can use MoG." then He reponds "Oh yeah, prove it. My brother is bigger than your brother."

So, you both disagree vehemently. There's nothing wrong with "subjective" reasoning, especially in cases like this. But one persons subjective opinion can vary greatly from anothers, but both are subjectively equally valid.

Now, if anyone wants add something "objective" with measureable, reproduceable, scientifically validatable by a third (or any /regen) party, then PLEASE add that information. I personally would love to have some specific cases I could test (on test center) and I'm sure the dev's would be more willing to listen to specific reproducable results. There likely are multiple (scientifically reproducable) scenarios that will support both viewpoints, and the real answer will be found in comparing how often one can reasonably be expected to encounter each scenario.

But if all you have to offer is comparisons of your intellectual, hand eye coordination, or other prowess, try to restrain yourself.

[ QUOTE ]
MoG would be substantially more useful if it had a shorter duration (and a correspondingly reduced recharge).

I know, it may sound wacky, but the scenarious where MoG would be the most useful thing are actually plentiful. However, those scenarios rarely cover a 3 minute chunk of time.

However, those scenarious rarely use a significant portion of MoG's 3 minute duration. So, you're forced to make a choice where you could us MoG for 30 seconds, but then turn off the rest of your powers for a further 150 seconds.

If MoG only lasted 45 seconds (and had a recharge of about 360), you would see it being used noticably more frequently.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the rest of the regen set greyed out for 150 seconds, I'd still never use it.

Make it anywhere from 30-60 seconds (45 sounds good), let us heal after the power wears off, without the 10 extra seconds of -regen, make sure the 10 second warning worked properly, then give it a 300 second recharge.

At that point the negatives would no longer outweigh the positives 9 out of 10 times. It would still be bad to use when facing PSY or DoT damage, but would be usefull all those other times, as the oh-bleep of oh-bleep I'm out of oh-bleep powers, better to risk MoG than face the alternative.

But I'm really torn on duration, so I really think I personally would make it a toggle with a 300 second recharge, then reduce the defense to "almost floored" but not "floored" so that it doesn't get abused. *shrug* there's no perfect solution given the way it works now.

So that leads me back to bleep it, just rework the whole bleeping power. What would I do, I dont' know. I just know I don't like it as it is, as IMO in 6 out 10 situations it's more of a liability than not. A 9'th tier power should not more often prove a liability than an asset. Most other 9'th tier powers only prove a liability in 2 out of 10 situations. And in the case of other 9'th tier powers, they aren't actually a liability in those 2 out of 10 cases. Instead of a liability they simple fail to function. MoG however can't be said to simply fail to function, it not only fails to function but provides a significant negative liability as well. In at least half the situations where MoG is a liability, it not only fails to function, but it actually becomes an "instant death" power, "Mark of .. oh bleep I'm dead". A 9th tier power "not functioning" because you're facing your weakness is "normal" but a 9th tier power actually significantly helping the enemy to kill you, that's just not right. I really don't know what a good 9't teir regen solution would be, but MoG isn't it.

Dark Dark Defenders can neuter cysts pretty effectively. Darkest Night + Fear = lotsa frustrated nictus that can't hit the broad side of a barn. Of course somebody (else) still has to do the actual KILLING. 8-)

[ QUOTE ]
So a Regen can get by with two lucks every minute (6 for the duration of MoG) and be well and truly more resilient.

[/ QUOTE ]
I carry 9-12 lucks, and no MoG for the very reason you stated. I use them in 3's with 1 respite Heal.

L L L H H
L L L C C
L L L B B
H H H R R

I vary the last two columns, but the first 3 are always the same.

[ QUOTE ]
MoG would be PERFECT for Blasters! Think of the Defiance bonus they would have!

FoN (Force of Nature) is more like a Regen Power!

Devs! Please Please Please SWAP THEM!

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG, Suggestion of the Year! That made me laugh good, that makes more sense than alot of things I've seen come down the (official) pipe.

Tactics and Assault: Teamed it's Great. However, It's not worth it solo. If you're in a group of 8, it's well worth it. If there's a second defender with it, it's entirely worth it. Even a single copy multiplied by 8 increases the speed of the group. It might not be a "noticable" increase, but if you pull up herostats and have a group that doesn't dilly dally about, it is a measureable increase. Two copies or more, it can become noticeable. 2 assaults in an 8 man team is like having a 9 man team offensively. 2 tactics is like (better than) everyone having an extra accuracy SO. The key is to hunt things you wouldn't normally hunt. With 3-4 copies of tactics and Assualt you can easily hunt the +4 and +5 that you might otherwise shy away from. Hunt the harder targets and reap the rewards of leadership.

Maneuvers is the only questionable leadership skill, needing closer to 3-4 copies for the "pay off". Well defended teams don't really "need" the pay off from maneuvers. So maneuvers is something of a catch 22: when you need it - it's not enough, when you have enough of it - you don't really need it.

Vengeance: is great. Vengeance is the fulcrum shift of defense. I say let a few of the less inteligent aggro mongers in the group die just so you can get vengeance on the rest of the group. Yeah, it's that addictive!

Teleportation: I Strongly reccomend Teleport and Recall Freind. You can use RF to help place DS as well as moving corpses around for mass res. Also, Teleport negates immobilize.

Stimulant: If somehow you can't find anything more useful to do with your powers and power pools. This can be a really nice perk. However, I think you'll find better things to do with your powers. Personally I chose Hasten instead.

I rarely use more then 2 heals. Seldom use more than 2 break frees. pretty much only use endurance when reviving.

The 3 extra heals are purely backup, as are the extra BF and Endurance. Those being the things that I need, IF I need more. The only time I vary inspirations will be for Sappers in smaller teams that are not capable of dealing with them otherwise. I normally just sacrifice the Dark Servant to the sapper, mind control, or other annoying gods when needed.

Immobilize is the most common status effect that seems to leak past my dark servant, and being a teleporter, I just ignore it. Otherwise I'd be drinking BF's like water.

Defense, Heal, Endurance, Breakfree, Revive

D D H E E
D D B H H
D D B B B
H H B R R

Tactics

This will probably meander. It's built on my template of some control, some blast, some solo, some group. It's my way, but by far NOT the only way. If your looking for a comprehensive list of tactics for every Dark/Dark build, look elsewhere, it's not in here.

[u]Solo Level A[u]
pretty straight forward most the time, TT them and Blast.

[u]Solo Level B[u]
If there are enough, or are hard enough, then I'll open with Fear followed by TT. Then blast. Consider Tar Patch 4'th for Extra damage. However, at easier levels, it can be a waste of time.

[u]Solo Level C[u]
Fear isn't enough, ok, Open with Darkest Night, Fear, TT ... Consider Tar Patch 4'th for extra damage. Also consider Hasten to open up heavy level fast recharge AE damage with strenuous use of TT and NF.

[u] Solo Level D[u]
That's still not enough. Open with Dark Servant, or TP the DS into the group, or Train the DS into the group. Follow up with (DN, Fear, TT) or (Fear, DN, TT) Followed by Tar Patch for Extra Damage, then Hasten and lay down a heavy fire of hastened TT and NF with single target mixed in the gaps.

[u] Solo Level E[u]
This is gonna hurt level. Ack! Open with DS, followed by DN, Fear, or even a heal in support of the DS. This gets knife edge tricky. Which of the three is actually the best choice gets heavily debateable. Typically I'd say DS, DN, Fear, Tar Patch, TT with heals mixed as needed. But that could easily end up Hasten, DS, Heal, Fear, DN, Heal, TT, Tar Patch or Hasten, DS, Heal, DN, Fear, Heal, TT, Tar Patch.
.

With the harder level targets there will come a time where it's hard to decide between Fear and DN as a primary mitigation.

Fear is an imeditate effect and mitigation, however it must To-Hit and anything not HIT will return fire at FULL POWER.

DN is a slower mitigation, however it is AUTO HIT and all enemyes return fire, but at a heavily nerfed accuracy level.

So the question becomes, what hurts less, a few returning fire at full power, or all returning fire with nerf sited guns. Often the few returning fire actually hurts less. However as the level or number of targets increase, the odds of misses increasing, then the pain of fire returned increases. Eventually, DN becomes the better mitigator. Low level targets, or fewer targets, fear is the better choice, higher level or higher number, and DN becomes the choice.

You can also get into situations where you need to pull, and use a well placed Tar Patch to catch the mobs at a corner, and then toss the DS on them from a location around a corner.

[u]Grouping[u]

Tactics and Assault are strongly reccomended. In an 8 man group every 2 copies of assault adds the equivalent of another player to the group. In the same 8 man group every 2 copies of tactics is BETTER than an extra accuracy SO in each attack. That means a group running 4 copies of tactics and assualt has the equivalent of a 10 man team with 4 Accuracy SO's in every attack. This has a tremendous impact on the speed at which you can complete a mission, or alternately the level of mission you can complete. With 4 tactics and 4 assault, +5 level missions "can" be scarily easy.

In Groups I almost always end up more control than blast. Heavy reliance on Tactics, Assault, and Vengeance, as well as heals, DS, and control.

Typically let the tank grab aggro first, it's not overly healthy taking alpha strikes in most 8 man groups, even with your massive debuffs. If the tank uses an AE foot stomp etc, start up your activation as they do, and your's will fire maybe 1 second after theirs, helping lower the Alpha that's directed at you. Otherwise, take care to judge the Alpha generated by both Fear and DN in the current mission at the current difficulty, and use the most apporpriate one for personal survivability, followed by the other. Also don't be shy to use DS to blunt Alpha, just realize you loose a lot of support when the DS is eaten by that alpha. That said, it's better to lose a DS than a Tank to alpha, use the appropriate tool as needed. I've often had to drop the DS either on the tank, or on a second spawn the tank accidentally aggroed to try to cut the alpha in half to keep the silly tank alive. Dropping the DS on the tank, not only can lower the alpha on the tank, but the DS will heal the tank as well, IF the DS lives long enough to do it.

Make sure to understand that which is the better opener WILL vary from mission to mission.

The opening in groups varies on difficulty and speed. In High speed groups the opening is usually Fear, DN, Tar Patch, TT. In really high speed super fulcrum shifted groups, it often doesn't progress past Fear, TT, Blast. In lower speed groups or vs harder targets, it's DN, Fear, Tar Patch, TT. Using DS as supplemental healing, or emergency tanking if an extra group of enemies try to crash the party.

Twilight Grasp also often comes into use more for it's debuff than the heal. TG is a VERY STRONG single target debuff. It can effectively neuter a boss. If there's a stray loose boss, spam TG and he's a non-issue. Drop DN on another boss and they become a non-issue. Drop DS on a third boss or even spawn, and they become a non-issue. Fear another group (but rarely does fear take hold bosses) and it's a non-issue. That's alot of control, a lot of "soft" control, but control just the same.

Arch Villains
TG and HT both have -regen. That means DS has -regen thru it's use of TG.

To successfully hunt +2 and +3 AV's you'll need 2 defenders that are either/or dark or kinetics, OR 1 defender that is radiation. 1 Dark "may" suffice with the use of either DS or Hasten, and 1 Kinetics "may" suffice thru the use of Hasten. 1 defender may also suffice given lower level or easier AV's.

Tactics is also STRONGLY recommended for hunting AV's. Assault is useful, but if it's a choice, Choose Tactics.

Drop everything you have on the AV, never mind alot may miss or not "take hold". There are still usefull debuff components to your skills, even if the primary component doesn't work as well vs an AV. First priority should be to DN the AV, followed by Tar Patch, TG, and/or Fear. Hasten, DN, DS, TG, Tar Patch, Blast is usually enough, but the occaisional fear doesn't hurt.

[u]Inspirations[u]
I typically carry, 5 Heals, 6 Defense, 5 Break Free, 2 res, 2 endurance. If I need a green, I take 3 defense for good measure. If I need a res, I typically hot res and take a BF, Heal, Endurance at the same time. That's about it. The only really "secret" so to speak is realizing that if I'm taking enough heat to NEED a green, then I NEED the 2-3 Purples too. The only other real "trick" is to know that If I NEED to res in or near battle to save my team, then I probably NEED to use that BF, Heal, Endurance just as quick as I can chain them together to get back in the fight at full power.

Cheers. Hope that helps.

Lin

41 Dark/Dark Defender Solo Missions
2500 EpM Burst and 2500 EpM sustained.

41 DDD Group of 8, 2 defenders, 2 controllers, 3 blasters, 1 tank. 4 Sidekicks, 4 tactics, 3 assault, 1 maneuvers, and occaisional Vengance
10,000 EpM Burst and 8,000 EpM sustained.

43 Scrapper Solo 5k+ EpM Burst and Sustained. She can typically solo at 75% of what an average group does. However, that average group is still better and a good group hunting +4 and +5 is twice that. Grouping is much better, but soloing isn't slacking either. But she is a scrapper.

Solo, for characters that can solo, is nice, but a good group is still better. And the group above was only hunting +2 and +3 to me since I was the highest. In more Even groups, I'll grab a +1 or +2 to me, and raise the target level and experience even more. In the above group, our lowest SK's were facing +6's and were going "omg, I can hit +6!" and the average were facing +4 and +5. I was the groups +2 feeding the rest missions. But on days when we're all the same level and someone ELSE is the +2, the XP gets even better. The +6's were getting nearly double the XpM I was.

Chart giving Damage Per Energy.

Page One - Sorted by Damage per Energy
Page Two - Sorted by Burn Time. Continuous Fighting time before Zero Endurance
Page Three - Sorted by Single Target Damage

Green - Better
Yellow - Good
Orange - Not so Good
Red - Bad


http://www.1stfistoflight.com/html/u...nea/cohdpe.pdf

It should be quick to note, you can't have it all. You have to choose, Damage, Efficiency, or Burn Time. Masterminds are the only ones that get it all for free. Simply because MM's don't actually do most of the work for themselves, so measuring by endurance simply doesn't apply to them.

Also, each skill set is not so simple as JUST damage or single target. For Instance MA is (Good, Good, Better) and ranked a bit higher than Katana (Good, Good, Better). However, Katana is more flexible in that it can also have a defensive posture and AoE posture. The defensive posture greatly increases it's survivability, while the AoE posture can greatly increase Damage and D/E "depending" on number of targets and positioning. The major benefit being Katana can instantly adapte and "choose" postures, while MA does not have this flexibility. And this is just ONE example of the other complexities that simply can't be "charted" easily.

Endurance Management

Note: If you're a tank, or otherwise the center of alot of aggro vs -end mobs, like clockwork, cabal, carnies, etc. Then all the endurance regeneration in the world will not help you. The ONLY management techniques usefull in those situations are things like "Consumption", "Dark Consumption", "Transference", "Power Sink", etc.

Endurance Reduction in Toggles: Everyone already does this. However most overdo it. In almost all cases there are other things more important and Endrdx works on a steeply diminishing returns scale. It is always better to place the 1st endrdx in each power than the second. 3 slotting one power while Zero or One slotting another, is a complete waste of slots. If a Toggle uses 1.0 EPS then each endrdx will gain you= 0.20 eps, 0.16 eps, 0.12 eps, 0.02 eps. When you consider that 1endrdx in most attack powers will save you 0.2 to 0.5 eps on your attack chain and that 1 in each attack can save a total from 1.0 to 2.5 eps, it should be obvious many people need to re-evaluate their priorities and stop looking at triple slotted endrdx in toggles. Finally, you have to consider the cost of each toggle and the above mentioned diminishing returns. Before double slotting a power, that power needs to cost 1.25x any other unslotted power. Before triple slotting a power, that power needs to cost 1.6x any unslotted power. Further, for a toggle to be more important than 1 endrdx (and only 1) in an attack power in a typical chain, that toggle would need to cost at least 0.8 eps. Very few powers will meet those criteria.
(Note: defenders and controllers would need to consider healing and control only powers as part of their chain. This may lower the threshold for toggle reduction due to the modification of costs and powers to the attack chain)

Endurance Reduction in the Attack Chain: This is what most people miss, and it's critical. There are VERY few attack chains and skill sets where this will not have the greatest return on investment. This is even more critical than Stamina or endrdx in toggles in almost all cases, however it does cost more slots.

Single Endrdx attack chain: Most sets will only be able to reasonably use 1 endrdx per attack power. On the negative side this uses more slots than Stamina or QR, since it's 1 slot per attack, instead of a straight 3 slots. However depending on skill set, the return varies from ~= 0.8 to 2.4 EPS

Double Endrdx attack chain: Few skill sets can afford this, as it requires Focused Accuracy to be able to make even on other considerations. Also, FA typically eats up much of what is gained. However, for extremely expensive sets that can afford it and FA, it's a very good option, not so much for endurance management, but for all the other benefits.

Quick Recovery - Regen: Similar to Stamina but fully slotted around ~= 1.1 EPS

Stamina - Fitness: This one is pretty straight forward and fully slotted ~= 1.0 EPS

Accelerate Metabolism - This power is 1/2 Stamina 1/2 of the time, given 3 slotting recharge and 3 slotting hasten. However it has other VERY useful benefits.

Recovery Aura - This power is 2x better than stamina, but only usefull 1/2 the time given 3 recharge and Hasten.

Speed Boost - Can't be used on Self. However It's 2x better than Stamina and can be kept on permanently by a freindly Kineticist. It also increases recharge. However it has a nasty side effect of making everyone run faster, which can be detrimental to control and coordination for the unwary.

Endurance Drains: Each will double your burn time given sufficient targets. So while not applicable all the time, IF you can apply them, they are VERY useful.

Transference: IF slotted properly, and IF and ONLY IF you hit your target or targets - this power is up to 3x better than Stamina.

Power Sink - Electric: IF and ONLY IF, sufficient targets are present; this power is is roughly equivalent to Stamina, perhaps better.

Energy Drain - Energy: IF and ONLY IF, sufficient targets are present; this power is is roughly equivalent to Stamina, perhaps better.

Consume - Fire: IF and ONLY IF, sufficient targets are present; this power is roughly 1/2 as effective as stamina OR 1.5 times better than stamina, but only applicable 1/3 of the time. take your pick.

Dark Consumption - Dark: IF and ONLY IF, sufficient targets are present; this power is roughly 1/2 as effective as stamina OR 1.5 times better than stamina, but only applicable 1/3 of the time. take your pick.

Heat Loss - Fire: Transference (see Above) on a 360 second timer, a recharge that is almost double that of transference. However, Heat Loss has other major debuffing components, the End Drain is simply one of the effects. This power is much less suited to Endurance Management than it is as an offensive Arch Villain and Giant Monster debuffing tool. However in such long hard fights, the Transference component can be very useful.

It can not be emphasized enough, that the single endrdx in the attack chain is more important than toggle reduction and even stamina for 8/10 skill sets, and that it is magnitudes more important for the endurance expensive offensive sets.

Example: MA/Regen is around 1.0 EPS better off with 1endrdx+QR than it is with QR+Stamina. However, QR+Stamina is the defacto thinking and choice made by 90% of MA/Regen scrappers, simply because "Stamina" has been preached so heavily to the masses. But "Stamina" is not the better choice. Even if one wants to argue accuracy, then QR+Stamina+2acc is still not the best choice, instead the better choice is 1acc+1endrdx+QR+Stamina+FA, with FA being several magnitudes better for accuracy and it's cost being canceled out by Stamina. Of course many might not want FA, in which case, 2acc+QR+Stamina is a good choice, just realize that you'll be -1.0 EPS less efficient, but in this particular case, that's still more efficient than most other builds.

Taunt Skill 5 targets.
What about Provoke from the presense pool ?

What is the number of targets limit on the "Taunt" power itself ?

Single target attack = max 5 targets taunted
Area attack = max 10 targets taunted
Taunt Skill = max ???? targets taunted
Max Total = 17 targets taunted

Is this correct ?

also .. you can create a directory in your coh directory and use ..

c:\program files\city of heroes\kb

bindloadfile .\kb\file.txt

by default it looks in ".\piggs" but you can change this for neatness sake.

I actually use ".\kb\file.txt" for most binds and ".\random\random.txt" for random targeting phrase generation.

Pant Clipping. For as long as I can remember, various pants have clipped, and still are.

Skirt Clipping. Some skirts clip with some jackes when moving and standing certain ways. It drove me to distraction and I changed colors to force them to match so I wouldn't constantly be noticing.

Sorry, no screenies at present.

The Unfounded conclusion would be Sonic is less important than -regen. For sonic to be more important than -regen it would have to debuff -100% res and double your damage. It's a nice boost, but not double.

I'm gonna pull a subjective number out my posterior and say the broken AV's regenerate around 1000 hp / sec. It's my understanding they regenerate fully in the blink of an eye, say 30 seconds, and some of them have 25k+ hp. So 1000 hp/sec would be a nice subjective number.

Now, If a scrapper can do say 130dps unbuffed and their are 8 scrappers pounding on the AV that's 1000 dps. So that's about even. I think this is also a bit optimistic from the reports I've seen of it taking closer to 16 players to take out the big bad AVs. But lets go with it.

So ... regen is 1000 dps and damage is 1000 dps .. total stalemate. So for Sonic to be more important than -regen the question would be, would sonic debuffs reduce the resistance enough to double the damage ? The answer is no. you have to stop the regen first.

No, you hate my numbers, they stink. Ok, fine. You take the same team beat on the AV all day long and it's a total stalemate. That means Damage is -X and Regen is +X. So the question is, does sonic debuff the AV enough to double damage ? The answer is no. Unless sonic gives -100% res, then sonic will always add less than -X. -regen will add -X.

So then the only debate is can you keep -regen applied over what percentage of time and is that percentage of time greater than the buff from sonic to damage. If Sonic adds 35% to damage then -regen would need to be active a min 35% of the time to break even. I feel subjectively that it's pretty safe to say -regen is more important.

[ QUOTE ]
Dark's Twilight Grasp and Howling Twilight most definitely have -regen components (check the green torso ring).

[/ QUOTE ]

I can confirm that TG has the -regen graphic. Tho I did not test the duration or effectiveness. If it's not been resolved by next week and I happen to remember, I'll look into trying to test the duration and effectiveness on some even con minions.

My comments.

Dark Pit "can" be useful. But only if you 5-6 slot it. 6 slot preferably. If you can't afford that, then you're better off without it. It's like handful of similar powers, if you don't slot them, they're useless. It's on my list of lowest build priorities.

I'm not sure if you mentioned it explicitly, but Howling Twilight has some nice offensive uses due to it's disorient. Howling Twilight is really an attack power, and the ressurection component is just a bonus. In fact, I'd say just realign your thinking to use Howling Twilight offensively before you consider wasting slots on Dark Pit. If you like the results from HT and want to nail bosses too, THEN and only then consider adding in Dark Pit.

You're not a healer, but you "can" be.

I was under the impression that Twilight Grasp, and Howling Twilight from Dark Defenders also provided brief click based -regen.

Spot on. I was just trying to explain this to someone earlier.

I use a quick spreadsheet to sort it out myself for each build.

1) Slot the Attack Chain first, minimum 1 endrdx, 2 endrdx when possible.
2) In general, 3 endrdx is seldom benificial. It's typically better to add the 1'st or 2'nd endrdx to another power of similar cost. Aim for Pairs, not Triplets.

PS) The same (appears to be) true of Recharge Reduction, Interrupt Reduction.

Something I've not noticed mentioned elsewhere ....

Binds execute left to right, but POWERS in binds execute right to left. This can cause some confusion as to the order to do some things.

I believe powers may be pushed into a LIFO stack as the bind executes.

To target a freind, heal, then target nearest enemy.

This works correctly:
subtract "unselect$$targetfriendnear$$powexec_name Aid Other$$targetenemynear"

This does NOT work:
add "targetenemynear$$powexec_name Aid Other$$targetfriendnear$$unselect"
In this version it tries toheal the enemy then leaves you with no target.

However This works, and toggls on Super Speed FIRST before Sprint:
W "powexectoggleon sprint$$powexectoggleon super speed"

The only way I can see for both to be true, would be for the bind to execute left to right, but use a LIFO stack for the queing of powers.

Ah, well, if at first you don't succeed, try the other way. 8-p

[ QUOTE ]

Conclusion: In this isolated instance, it appears that both EPP and PPP suffer from two drawbacks: 1) 25% higher END cost, 2) 50% longer Recharge. However, in the case of the PPP, there is one offsetting advantage: 1) a 5% damage boost.

So yes, the PPP powers, at least in this case, appear to be slightly (5% actually) more powerful than the EPP powers.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds entirely more reasonable. In that light, I think it's safe to say we should ignore the in-game plaque info thing and wait for additional play testing to confirm numbers. Thanks Cryptic for confusing info. Thanks Scarlet for something much more digestible.