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Quote:It's going to be a bit tough to get lots of posters to provide collaborative thoughts on a given subject as many would rather just provide their insight on it. That's fine though, honestly. It just doesn't give a lot more to discuss.Good. I think Im gonna edit the orignal post to update it with some of the better ideas from the thread so far.
In all honesty, I love this discussion and think people are coming up with a rather stellar, fairly simple way to implement this that DOESNT step on the toes of people who dont want to origins to really matter overall, while letting those who DO get what they want.
As for other 'stuff' to relate to origins, you could always look into 'non-combat extras' and non-mission activities. Just fluff or even busy-work that you might enjoy occupying yourself with.
It'd be interesting if there were 'Magical Research' or 'Tech Engineering' side-stuff you could do in your spare time for fluff like shuffling enhancements that exist on a power, giving your common IOs you have slotted names, switching out the little picture on them if you desire, maybe offering a certified 'dual origin' (for those players that have concepts for a Magic/Tech character, or a Science/Natural type) and so on and so forth.
But for actual combat extras, I'd probably dip more into temp powers. There are just some temp powers out there that I really like and would like a couple to keep on a character. Link them to origin and give you a kind of extra task to get them/recharge them would be nice. Characters want/need a power that doesn't pertain to their origin could still pick them up, just with fewer charges. -
Quote:Just doing my part to make the suggestion boards less condescending one high-horsed poster at a time.For someone insulting another person and calling their friends "losers," well, do us all a favor. Post your global. I want to be sure to put that on /gignore, as well, if this is "to be expected" from you.
Given what I've seen in various posts you've done versus what Memphis has done, I'd play with him. With the help and guides he's put out here - not a "font of faux knowledge" - I'd expect him to know what he's doing, and the way he seems on the boards when someone's not provoking him he sounds like he'd be a good teammate. You, I can't see even standing next to you in the market as being pleasant. But by your own admission, "it's to be expected."
Yeah, he needs to tone it down some. But you're being juvenile.
Honestly, I was just speaking up against a particular statement made against the OP that could easily be considered condescending and harsh. I'm sure it was much more useful than the equivalent /jranger but was continuing to add more and more unnecessary hostilities. But I guess condescendingly laughing in someone's face is *WAAAAAAY* more acceptable than calling someone on a generalist statement they made?
Perhaps I am being juvenile but don't make the same mistake by letting your bias toward a poster blind you to what they've been recently spouting. -
Eh, I don't really have a 'No U' argument. I simply came into the discussion advising Bill if he's going to talk down to the OP, not to leave out exceptions. Notice, after I made my post, he ended up revising his 'blaster secondaries are all melee' statement and listed the exceptions.
Beyond that, I never said I was right and he was wrong...that's all him. -
Well I have an excuse. I'm just Leo and it's to be expected.
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Well, if Rommie is considered a raid mob, taunts have a chance to miss, right?
That's kind of an exception, tho. Apparently, the devs want aggro to deviate on some mobs but even then, aggro diminishes as one takes damage too. If you're not taking damage cause you're supported by teammates, threat builds faster than it diminishes. -
Eh, I'd hardly call a couple of foes turning to take a pot-shot then turning back, 'pulling aggro off'. Especially when you consider you can only keep the attention of, like, 16 targets at once.
But even if the aggro of the foes in my aura fluctuates, the Tanker can still be covering your ****. Grant Cover on a Tanker also provides a bigger +def and defense debuff resist on the occasion the above happens.
It's why I actually built my Tanker to be a 'back-up support tank', he can provide melees and other tanks with around 19% defense + debuff resist (GC, Maneuvers and Grant Invisibility). I like having him follow other Tankers/Brutes into the fight but end up drawing the attention, either because of the taunt aura + attacking or some other weird reason I'm not aware of. I don't really know, I only have 2 Tanker characters so far.
All in all, I'd advocate Tanker Shields if only because, as a melee, it does 'enough' damage yet can be practically unkillable solo. And on teams, they can tank well or if there's already a tank, you can just support the other tank by sticking together. -
Quote:Lol like anyone gives a damn what some losers think. They'd have to be considering they're spending their saturday evening with a gent like yourself.
By the way, your "anti-melee" comment got a great number of laughs from the team I'm on. Then I told them you were serious.
Quote:Show me where I said they're ALL melee. Go ahead. i'll wait.Quote:Riiiight. Obviously nobody ever uses the nuke (melee range for most sets,) or most of their secondary (which is all - ready? - *melee.*)
Quote:Gee, look, as usual, you're wrong.
Oh! Saying 'wrong' over and over again makes you sound sooo right. ooOOOOOooooooOH! We afraid of Bill and his (faux) fountain of ultimate knowledge
Quote:Right. So I should take your word over the fact they haven't been majorly changed in the game for seven years, and the only new set follows much the same pattern.
Quote:OK, pop quiz... WHAT RANGE to you have to be in to use that power thrust? WHAT type of SET does it take, beside knockback?
anti- (an′tī′, -tē, -ti, -tə)
1. against, hostile to, opposed to: antilabor, antislavery
2. that counteracts, that operates against: antiaircraft
In context, Power Thrust is used to *counteract* a melee opponent. Even in the description, it says the power does very little damage but can be used effectively. To someone that's not an idiot, that'd mean to subdue a close ranged foe; to an observant person, that'd also mean subdue a close foe by moving them outside of your melee range.
Quote:Try to use those PBAOE outside of melee range.
Oh look! I hit em!
Quote:Misinformed? Sorry, that's your schtik. Should've remembered that (and your "creative" definitions) from before.
"Just cause I post in a thread doesn't mean I have to offer actual ideas to help the OP!"
Yeah yeah, I remember. Whatev. Carry on... -
Quote:Well you kinda already defeated your own argument on 'blaster secondaries are all- ready?- *melee*'. Because they aren't. And I don't even feel they were designed to take/use them all (that is, I don't think the manipulation sets are balanced by picking all the powers...heck, manipulation sets simply aren't balanced...)I'm not talking "theory" here or "from looking at some power chart."
How about you? Or are you just looking for an argument?
From my experience:
-Archery/Devices: No melee except taser, which I do use.
-Sonic/Ice: 1 melee attack in Ice Sword and 2 PBAoEs in Chilling Embrace/Frozen Aura. Ice Patch isn't melee as I'm not dumb enough to stand on it, I stand behind it.
-Elec/Energy: 2 melee attacks and a power thrust which is more an anti-melee attack.
-Energy/Fire: 1 melee attack and 2 PBAoEs.
But I think where you are passing misinformed information is with your definition of 'melee'. 20ft isn't melee range. 15ft isn't even melee range. And even if you consider it to be, you don't *need* to use them to be effective. That's why Blaster's ranged damage mod was pushed up. And as ineffective as portrayed on the forums, I enjoy full ranged builds, especially for sets like AR, Archery and DP since they have minimal redraw. -
[Day 1: 1st mission]
As the ferry sailed from Independence onward to Striga Island, Spirit bent over to rest his elbows on the ships railing. He was examining the paper he had gotten from Kerrigan. On it was some information about Golden Jason, his appearance, some of his past transgressions and even some of his hangouts around the island. It certainly gave him a starting point to get his search going.
Apparently, this Jason guy was one of the main members of the Warriors that joined in stealing interesting Greek relics and artifacts. It was a good hunch now that he thought about it, that Jason might have something to do with the mysterious missing truck driver who happened to be shipping special swords. Heh, haven't you ever heard weapons dont steal the man!...er, that doesnt make sense weapons dont make the man?...whatever. Im gonna beat you up and get those swords back! Spirit said to the imaginary villain beside him. He even put up his dukes and started boxing the invisible man, throwing in some HA!s, BAM!s and KA-SHAKK!s.
Ka-shakk? Spirit said and ceased his shadow boxing. What kinda fighting noise is that!? The satyr shook his head and continued his play/practice to the confusion of the other hero passengers on the ferry who simply stared at him.
~~~
Since he kept himself distracted, it didnt seem long before he was stepping foot on the docks of Striga. The other heroes quickly jumped/flew/teleported into the distance so hed get no help there. Hmm, wait a minute, the ram-boy scratched his head and looked both ways up and down the dock. I dont know how to find these places. He started a moment longer at the mission paper, trying to make sense of the combination of numbers and letters after warehouse or dock and quickly gave up, tossing the paper aside.
His hooves clopped along the pavement as he marched to ask anybody if they knew where Golden Jason lived. Several soldier guys told him to get lost, a few guys in colored business suits told him to buzz off and there were even a few turrets that tried to blow him up!
Nneeeh! Why cant I find any of the Warriors? the satyr pouted as he hung his hoofed feet off the side of a wooden dock and threw a few bullet casings into the water he had picked up. Theres suppose to be those sword guy Warriors all over this place. Where could they all be hiding?
Perhaps they were hiding? In the distance, he heard hooping and yelling (not really strange around these parts) along with bright flashes of weird colors behind him. At first, Spirit was just going to ignore it but when he heard the familiar sound of clashing swords and axes, the satyr jumped to his feet and bounded after the racket.
You tell us who has the swords or well rip the soul right from your flesh!
Grrrrg! We havent an idea- huuug!...what you speak of!
Hold them off. Ive got an idea. Well use a spell to control him and retreat. Then well get our answers when-
Spirit came descending on the battle between a mass of robed men and a bunch of transparent ghastly-looking things versus a handful of warriors. The battle seemed a bit one-sided though. Even with a squad of 5 more warriors howling as they charged into the fray, they didnt really stand a chance against the magic wielding Circle of Thorn.
Hey hey hey! Whats going on here! Spirit called out as he landed with a boom.
The mages seemed unphased by the heros arrival and quickly launched a flurry of lightning bolts and darkness blasts at the ram. Since he landed in a crouch, his hand was already touching the ground and the colors around him began to desaturate and wash. Unlike his surroundings, Spirits colors instead intensified and the satyr significantly stood out from everything.
The blasts bashed Spirit hard but rather than fry him to a crisp and suck the life from him, they only caused him extreme discomfort. He shielded himself from the attack with his arms, barely able to keep himself on his feet. Is that all youve got? Spirit panted, barely finding the strength not to fall flat on his face. And he just might when the ghosts and robes started charging up their spells for another attack. Darn I couldnt even last a second round with these guys maybe Im just not ready
It wasnt that he wanted to give up but what could he do? He started to clench his teeth in preparation for the pain when he heard the hollering, whistling and cheering behind him. Huh?
Go Minotaur! You can take em!
They aint tipping no cows! Show em whos boss!
Spirit looked over his shoulders to see the Warriors seemed to be on his side. Their crappy magic cant touch you!
The satyr smiled and rose up. Aww, well it did kinda hurt, he said through a grin, partially ignoring much of the damage he had.
Grrr, just destroy that beast, the Air Thorn Caster ordered and began to chant some magic words. As ordered, the other casters started throwing lightning bolts and the ghosts swooped in as the satyr soaked up the praise from his fans.
Horn dude! Watch out!
Spirit managed to turn just in time to get a face full of lightning followed by a wave of death energy. It looked like it was all over for this young hero
.. No way! Spirit cried and charged right through the ghosts at the robes. The mages looked shocked their spells didnt seem to do much damage to the creature and instead drew their ceremonial blades in preparation of defending themselves but a well placed punch and headbutt took care of each. The ghosts gave chase with spectral claws reaching toward the young ram who turned on them with growing coiled horns. Defying logic, he head-butt the ghosts too, which seemed to have an actual affect on them and sent them flying back. Their ghastly shrieks made the warriors skin crawl but when they saw the scaredy-ghosts flying away, they cheered again for the strange hoofed hero.
Haha! No prob guys. I could take on another army of them if I hafta, Spirit laughed in triumph.
You have not yet won, fool. Youll feel my icy wrath soon. The satyr turned to see the lone Air Caster drawing a circle out of light. Welp, one more to go. Spirit started walking toward the straggler with confidence but he noticed this mage had just as much confidence. Hmmm, this might not be good.
Spirit thought quickly. The only thing he could do was try to reach out and sap away his moral. Maybe hed give up? But it was too late. A typhoon of icy wind sent Spirit and the Warriors flying threw a nearby fence, into a warehouse yard and on top of a bunch of crates.
Ow ow ow Spirit pulled himself up and tried straightening his spine from the impact. It took him a while to notice, but when a particle of cold whiteness touched his snout, he looked up. Snow? But it was just clear a minute ago. -
I would *like* origin to matter...but then I would also *like* to be able to choose for it not to. And I would also *like* for whatever system implemented for origins to expand customization and not be limited to vanilla 'stat bonuses'.
For terseness, if I have a concept for a character who is, like, a religious priest or something that exorcises demons and ghosts, I can make a Mind/Empathy controller that has a natural origin with the ability to have modified effects on ghosts and demon type creatures...
Or a concept for a magic medium that channels ghosts and speaks with demons, I could make the same Mind/Empathy controller that has heightened control of humans (ghost! possess that mortal!) but is vulnerable to holy/religious faith type abilities...
Or, if I don't want to deal with any advantage/disadvantage system, to simply pick an origin but not have to pick a disadvantage at the cost of not being able to pick up advantages. -
Quote:Geeze, Bill. Way to be a ****. Seriously, he seems like a new enough poster. No need to go bashing him. I mean, yeah point out the flaws to help him see the problem but some of the things in your posts seem more hostile than needed (not unusual for your posts?). I know I can come off as confrontational but usually toward posters that deserve it....
Heh.
Bwahahaha....
Riiiight. Obviously nobody ever uses the nuke (melee range for most sets,) or most of their secondary (which is all - ready? - *melee.*) "Blasters that live" do damage, then do more damage to follow up, possibly with a bit of control thrown in. They don't "run away" if something comes into melee. They hit it *hard.* (Most of the more *damaging* ST attacks are melee range.) Any blaster whose response to "Something is getting closer" is "Run awaaaaay!" is a blaster that's not even using 1/2 of their ability.
"Blasters that live run away." Need to tell that to a friend of mine who was basically tanking with hers. She could probably use a good laugh.
Ahh. So you want to bring the "holy trinity" ("Must have tank, healer, DPS") into the game. You want one AT to almost *require* another.
No. Absolutely not.
Also, all blaster secondaries are melee? I doubt it. Or that one must directly respond to closing mobs or is less than half a blaster? Eh, it depends entirely on the build. Some have less or too little control, others simply excel when at range or take powers to keep them there. Not telling the whole story....
Quote:Deflector: this archetype focuses on AoE buff and debuff effects, each secondary power set has some sort of 'foe repellant' and 'negative taunt' powers. The strength of all this archetype's powers are determined by the amount of points in the 'deflection bar' which is similar to a domination or fury bar, except the amount of points in the bar is higher and does not decrease unless used by your powers
Inherent power: Siphon Powers, ranged AoE (foe -Res -def -Dmg -tohit -hp -end -spd, Self +Special) recharge moderate, you are able to place enhancement slots on this power. Using this power adds points your Deflection bar equivalent to number of combined points you drained from the foe(s).
Primary: Buff/Debuff
Secondary: Foe repellant/ negative taunt/ team hiding/ foe blinding
Destroyer: this archetype has exceptionally high ranged damage, is well known for knock-back effects. But Cannot attack any enemy with-in melee range, additionally due to this archetype's inability to attack melee range foes they may get melee attacks from power pools but those attack wont work.
Primary: ranged armor sets (no Smashing, Lethal or Melee resistance or def, and minimal Aoe protection)
Secondary: Ranged/Sniper
Executor: extremely high melee damage (higher than scrappers and stalkers) with lots of AoE as their hall mark, but no armor.
Primary: melee
Secondary: melee
notes:
Deflector; very handy for team aid, and especially handy from breaking mobs up into smaller groups, or telling that pesky AV that decided to show-up "go back and sit in your corner, we aren't ready for you yet"
Destroyer: sorta like the yellow Mitochondria of hamidon, they are ranged tanks but cannot handle melee at all!!!
Executor: they stay standing purely by thier damage output and AoE, with 2 melee sets they could possibly get 2 rage or 2 build-up powers.
'Destroyer' does kind of aim to fill that 'traditional tank artillery' staple form comic books like Iron Man and such, but the example you present doesn't fit. Ironman crumpling to a punch? Doesn't work. And the limitations seem to come out of left field and are too restrictive for general play.
'Executioner' and 'Deflector' don't seem to be fulfilling anything. It's not a comic staple, it's not a game staple nor do they fulfill a specifically desired role on a team. You should take them all back to the drawing board, IMO. -
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Quote:Unless the tank is SD too. One advantage of a Tanker SD not mentioned is how effective AAOs is as a taunt aura, probably more so than Invincibility. Since it's a debuff too (to all dmg types), things that get near you will most likely stick with you, and this is coming from a primarily ST SD/DM Tanker player.No need to worry about agro, i can pull agro off of a tank with mine.
Even though so far he's built more as a 'back-up support Tanker', I find he out tanks any Brute or Tanker he encounters on teams...and I usually don't try to
So far, his only senior seems to be Granite Tankers (in survival) and ToHit debuffs. Even enemies with ToHit buffs can be decently mitigated by popping One with the Shield and an orange inspiration -
Quote:Eh, there's a difference between harshly criticized bad art/design an highly stylized alternative art/design. The main difference with an artist like Leifeld and someone else....(somebody help me out here...maybe Eiichiro Oda? I can think of 2 other artists with interesting styles but not sure if I want to mention them >_>) is consistency. One can like or not care for specific style but 'bad anatomical decisions pressed along by obvious habit' doesn't seem like a style, in my book.As a fine connoisseur of all things American cartoon, anime, "furry" artword and concept drawings, I will say that "human anatomy" isn't always the holy grail of artistry that people present it as. In fact, I've found myself the most bored with characters who are the most realistically presented and proportioned. That's part of the reason why I only have a mere handful of ordinary-looking humans in my character roster, and most of mine are aliens, robots, animals, mystical creatures, inanimate constructs, abstract apparitions or generally anything that has a humanoid body, but is not a literal human.
That's not to say I enjoy Rob Leifeld's artowrk, in whole or on part (that instance when one guy hits another WITH HIS CROTCH comes to mind) I nevertheless enjoy some of his designs, anatomical incorrectness and all. I take my fiction as a form of escapism, and if it gives me cool themes and images, I'm more than willing to overlook its lack of realism.
Rob Leifeld is as famous and influential because - whether some want to admit it or not - people liked what he made and sought to copy it. You can condemn society, tastes or judgement if you choose to do so, but you cannot argue with history. Even if no-one will admit to liking his artwork now, enough liked it to make the man part of popular culture in the past, and that counts for something.
I'm not one to criticize other's art though. Honestly, if Leifeld can push out great quantities of his art decently and at a high pace, who am I to judge? One can look past certain mistakes and still favor an artist's style but if you already know said artist is pursuing a specific look, it's harder to overlook said mistakes when they're in contrast of the artist's goal. -
Have you ever played a Dual Blades Stalker? And put a proc in Ablating Strike?
Thinking about the idea itself, I figure it's possible in a similar sense to combos. To get the additional effect of a combo, you have to be in a specific state (I can't recall what the name of those states are but you can research it I guess). kMeter is the state to activate crits from hidden/placate but crits themselves are by chance.
But if you put a 'chance on a chance' I'm not sure of...that is, the critical component of an attack was built in to have a chance for PBAoE effects....I've confused myself...
But what *can* be done is putting a chance of PBAoE on a ST attack. You *can* possibly link it to the kMeter (only AoE dmg on placate/Hide crits) or maybe after activating in as a combo.
But my question would be: Why? How would it make sense for a martial arts kick to suddenly hit everything around you? And why only on critical damage? -
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Why is it 3-4 new powers? What about characters who didn't have fitness to begin with so basically end up with 4 new slots? So if your statement only fits a general situation, you're hard pressed to make it a verifiable fact. It's a statement that's only true on a case by case basis.
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One on the left is definitely wearing a hood. Let's pray that head options are being shown off for that (some limited hair styles that don't clip, some hats, some helmets and hoods!)...but I could be wrong >_> probably....T_T
The one on the left also has different looking clawed hands. The monsterous hands we have still look like the mittens we have but with points on the fingers but these fingers are curved...but I could be misremembering how monsterous hands look.
The middle just looks like she's sporting a new head type. Most likely she'll be showing off new patterns too.
I'm definitely seeing a panther head on the one to the right. I can see it!
Those feet on the one to the right is also different. They aren't the clawed/reptile feet we now have. They look more feline, IMO.
I bet this booster doesn't have 'whole sets' like the others did but it'll have lots of pieces: heads, hands, feet and patterns with maybe a couple of chest options. All I need is rodent costume parts and bovine/equine costume parts and I'll have rolled perfect 6s and get to redo the look of all my animal characters -
Woops, well still. Stealth Strikes for attacking out of stealth should be added. If it's too much to add a bit of extra dmg to every blaster ranged attack, I guess limiting it to snipes wouldn't be horrible. Then you can stack CD and TD for even more dmg (oh, and you'd have to fix TD to work right then).
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Wow, Test_Rat, you stink at making arguments.
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Quote:I really want some cool animations for AS. I feel they could have done a lot more with Energy Melee's. Electric's is nice because when you hit the target, there's all this zappy stuff everywhere coming off the target.The Ice Sword could even be used for the Assassin Strike for the melee, or even just an ice spike.
For Ice Melee, I'd rather a version of Frozen Touch where you just reach out to the target and encapsulate the target in a huge case of ice that quickly shatters. Could make it pure cold damage too (something not in any other stalker set tho).
That or either the target having their insides frozen and spikes of ice jut out of the target. Thinking about said animations on a target that'll go down in 1 hit, it'd look particularly devastating to freeze a target in a block of ice which shatters and the target completely vanishes, leaving only shards of ice on the ground...*shivers*
For Fire melee, I want an *EXPLOSION* of flames and embers all over! Or maybe turning the target black with patches of orange-red lava or something. -
Quote:Well Energy Cloak and Cloak of Darkness do not suppress when attacking of when attacked, only when clicking mission objectives or PvP. Not only does the stealth not suppress but neither does the defense where Cloaking Device and Stealth do. That's sufficient enough difference from the pool power, IMO.
The problem with making Stealth more powerful is that would greatly reduce the usefulness of Cloaking Device, Energy Cloak, and even Cloak of Darkness. (CoD has Immobilize protection and +Perception as well as stealth, but those are minor advantages if you remove the stealth)
Cloaking Device has an additional damage component to Assault Rifle's snipe.
Personally, I'd suggest adding to those powers to give room to alter Stealth to make it a bit more attractive:
-EC/CoD could add a bit of -def resist. Just a tiny bit which won't do much for Dark Armor but help quite a bit for Energy Aura.
-CD could just have the snipe damage component added to all set's snipes. Sets without a snipe...oh well T_T
-Stealth, honestly the -speed is negligible. But if I were to help it out, changing it so it only suppresses when *you* attack would be cool. It'd be a pretty useful power to stealth mission objectives (which, honestly, I don't see as an issue). And you can still stay hidden when you get attacked.
Personally, that Stealth can't stack with other stealth shouldn't be a problem. It's Stalker's schtick to stack stealth anyway. But I still think each stealth power could have unique features to make them desirable to flip between different types of stealth like:
-EC/CoD is the combat stealth that keeps you hidden all the time.
-Steamy Mist/Shadowfall is the team version of the above.
-Hide is a super sneak attack mode + perfect invisibility.
-Cloaking Device could be the ranged version of Hide minus the perfect invisibility.
-Stealth could be the mission concealment version to get special objects while staying unnoticed.
-Invisibility could be a super aggro-shedder panic button that gives defense and drops your threat super low while its on.
Eh, basically just build each with specific tasks in mind rather than needing them to stack (which isn't very useful in PvE anyway and annoying in PvP).